|
This was the first modern Blizzard product I stopped buying the expansions for. Going to be really interesting to see in detail what I missed.
|
#
¿
May 31, 2023 22:30
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 16, 2024 08:52 |
|
|
To me, Wings of Liberty amounts to
|
|
#
¿
Jun 1, 2023 00:42
|
|
|
I'd figured she was just a standard sci-fi mixed-race person of no particular ethnicity. Certainly not this green-eyed red-haired Disney princess with flawless porcelain skin.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 1, 2023 01:22
|
|
|
I finally realized something. Maybe SC2's opening cinematic so prominently featuring a close up on a dude's [sealed in power armor] crotch was in retrospect a warning sign.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 2, 2023 02:13
|
|
|
BY GOD IT'S NOVA WITH THE STEEL CHAIR!
|
|
#
¿
Jun 2, 2023 20:31
|
|
|
We're already starting to see, by omission, probably the biggest part of Brood War's plot that SC2 would very much like you to forget: that Mengsk is only still alive because Raynor and Kerrigan saved his life. Raynor saved him from the UED on Kerrigan's orders, and then Kerrigan twice explicitly had the opportunity to kill him but decided that it would be more entertaining to let him live, having lost everything he'd worked so hard to achieve. Brood War had implied that the Dominion was flat-out dead at the end.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 3, 2023 12:24
|
|
|
Szarrukin posted:I still wonder why Blizzard decided to ignore basically everything that happened in Brood War except hybrids. Personally, my theory is that Blizzard had much the same mentality that EA did when handing Bioware orders about Mass Effect 3: they did not want to create a feeling that players of this game needed to play the previous game(s) to understand what's going on. Starcraft 2, to me, feels like a very generic space opera setting. Tychus is the everyman viewpoint character so the writers can explain the setting to the audience, everyone's histories and motives are simplified (dumbed down, if you prefer), the story is a very simple heroic rebels versus evil empire tale for the most part in Wings, and the mandatory ancient precursor race goes from an occasionally-mentioned curiosity to a driving force of the plot.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 3, 2023 22:51
|
|
|
Sadly, the cruiser's missile barrage in this mission was something cut from release.  It was shown in early videos for the game as an alternative upgrade to the yamato cannon, swapping single-target damage for a massive area effect strike, but then it was removed and is now strictly a cutscene power the player never gets to use.SC2 also wastes little time showing its love affair of orbital drop pod assaults. Someone (probably several someones) at Blizzard is a big Warhammer 40k fan, and it shows.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 10, 2023 12:57
|
|
|
BlazetheInferno posted:It's worth noting the laser-spam shown from the Hyperion isn't actually a special ability, it's the unit's standard attack pattern, blasting huge barrages of lasers in an area doing splash damage where they land rather than targeting specific units. Regular Battlecruisers are different, still with a spammed barrage of many lower-damage lasers, but that attack is focused on a single target rather than blasting in a huge area. Yeah but the cruiser's normal attacks look very different. That's the missile pod ability from early videos of the game that got cut from release.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 10, 2023 20:09
|
|
|
Co-op did eventually find a way to make one specific Firebat useful, at least. Situational, but useful. I do like that there's almost always an organic reason in the story why any given mission unlocks a new unit, even if the logic does sometimes stretch a bit thin. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Jun 12, 2023 |
|
#
¿
Jun 11, 2023 12:07
|
|
|
Story-wise, Horner's doing the narratively necessary job of being the guy who is rightfully suspicious of Tychus. Raynor instinctively trusts him, but you the player know that Tychus has some kind of deal with Mengsk. Horner's here to remind you that, while Raynor trusts him, you shouldn't, and adds a bit of conflict and disagreement to the protagonists who otherwise all get along pretty well. Blizzard's just not good at writing character conflicts, so they have Horner be irrational about the convict thing rather than pointing out that Tychus never takes off his suit, that he seems to have no remorse about being a thief and murderer, or that Tychus tends to act like a drunken loser.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 12, 2023 00:34
|
|
|
I tended to forget that mercenaries were even an option. They might have stuck more if they had special abilities or were unit types you couldn't normally get or something.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 19, 2023 01:02
|
|
|
Also, the 'shoulderpads' on the Reaper are a jetpack, made a big and obvious part of the character model for art reasons.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 19, 2023 03:25
|
|
|
Szarrukin posted:Ah yes, Firebats. Two games, one expansion, multiple mods and nobody managed to make them useful. Amazing. There is one singular Firebat in co-op who is situationally useful, courtesy of a combination of abilities that make his flamers do damage over time as they ignite enemies and ignited enemies exploding and spreading the fire to other nearby enemies.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 24, 2023 12:39
|
|
|
That woman needs to see a medic herself, something is seriously wrong with her hips. Her legs appear to be growing out of the sides of her waist, and that can't be healthy.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 28, 2023 22:22
|
|
|
Incidentally, wiping out bases on most maps like Evacuation, while actually quite doable, doesn't serve a purpose. Most attack waves in SC2 seem to be pre-scripted and will drop pod in rather than being created at the bases. Starcraft 2 actively discourages going exploring and deviating from the script, which is one of the things I dislike about its generally cohesive map design. I like to take my time, build up, and generally play turtle, but most missions in this game have some kind of ticking clock or other demand for immediate aggression.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 30, 2023 16:22
|
|
|
I think the narrative point behind Kate is to introduce the idea that there are competent, moral, and likeable people in the Dominion, not just bastards, but I don't think making her an anchor on space Fox News alongside Tucker Carlson With Worse Hair was a good way to do it.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 2, 2023 13:17
|
|
|
Kith posted:it's pretty loving stupid that Dawn Of War II has a more believable and reasonable "curing the virus" storyline than SC2 where you can toss a larva in a bag and be like "alright let's get your wiggly rear end to the lab" In Dawn of War 2, it's a much more sensible story for trying to cure a particular toxin, not a disease. Coming up with an antidote to a particular chemical poison is very different from trying to cure a disease. Starcraft 2's plot seems to struggle with the difference between diseases, parasites, acids, and toxins. It's all green goop to them.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 3, 2023 03:10
|
|
|
Szarrukin posted:There is also a chance that Hanson is making up all that "zerg virus" poo poo and she just want to experiment on zerg stuff and colonists as suggested by that renegade ghost guy who has yet to appear . I was under the impression that that character was suggesting that Hanson was in fact infested, just covertly. The Zerg going Invasion of the Body Snatchers on Terrans would probably be a lot more in-character than a virus with someone like Kerrigan at the helm who would understand the value of spying on the Dominion.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 3, 2023 14:52
|
|
|
PurpleXVI posted:Hey Cyth, any chance of a look at the most atrocious writer self-inserts in one of the next lore posts? Wrong thread.  I've never read a single Starcraft book and I don't intend to start.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 3, 2023 22:38
|
|
|
Torrannor posted:Psionic Terrans get quite a bit of focus in SC2, we just always seem to vote for the missions that won't nab us our first important psionic character! Because he's an awful racist stereotype and I, for one, have been actively voting to delay him joining as long as possible.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 4, 2023 12:49
|
|
|
Raynor in SC1 rode a [hover] motorbike around. Raynor in SC2 sits at a desk.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 7, 2023 22:09
|
|
|
By popular demand posted:It is not a subtle plotline. I feel like the game keeps trying to make Raynor and company a bit edgy and morally ambiguous - Hanson is possibly a mad scientist with an unhealthy interest in the Zerg, Tosh is possibly a murderous pirate and completely crazy, Tychus is an all-around dirtbag - but then keeps pulling back (with one potential exception). I get the impression that someone wanted the Terran campaign to feel like a gang of, well, outlaws and antiheroes on the run before someone decided to make it a very simplistic heroic rebels versus evil empire plot.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 9, 2023 16:40
|
|
|
My impression was that the hellion was supposed to be a worker massacre machine, not a zergling toaster. Area effect damage vs light, and worker lines tend to be conveniently lined up for a line attack.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 10, 2023 14:56
|
|
|
BisbyWorl posted:Told you I have barely any knowledge of multiplayer. Don't look at me, I'm just guessing based on their attack profile. My main exposure to multiplayer that isn't co-op is... custom co-op with me and friends stomping the AI. Zerg ground forces backed by battlecruisers for air cover and y-cannoning hard targets, and the Terrans' multiplayer healing unit are a thing of terrifying beauty.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 10, 2023 15:35
|
|
|
Regarding Kerrigan's redesign for this game:
|
|
#
¿
Jul 11, 2023 14:19
|
|
|
Early previews for SC2 really wanted elevation to be a Thing in SC2. Blizzard was very proud of how they'd made units like Reapers that could move up and down cliffs without needing a ramp, with the intent that this sort of terrain and manipulation would add a new layer to the game. It's why medics were cut from beta when they were a part of the Terran roster. Terran players were completely ignoring reapers because medics couldn't keep up with them. Blizzard instead came up with a different solution to the problem that they wanted to encourage Terrans to use reapers.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 12, 2023 16:34
|
|
|
I have discovered that in SC2's map editor, there's a doodad of... a hologram of Nova doing the WoW night elf stripper dance. -_- It gets used in Mass Recall, too.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 14, 2023 14:53
|
|
|
BlazetheInferno posted:It's visible in the Hyperion's bar, upstairs where Tosh hangs out. I thought that was an actual hologram of a night elf, not Nova. God drat it, Blizzard.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 14, 2023 15:13
|
|
|
JohnKilltrane posted:A couple things from earlier on that are interesting to me. First, from the intermission after Smash and Grab, when Matt tells Tychus about what happened to Kerrigan and Tychus says "And Jimmy feels responsible," it's one of a few hints throughout the game of a slightly more interesting characterization for Raynor? This idea that he isn't depressed about losing Kerrigan so much as he's suffering from survivor's guilt. It feels very much in character for Jimmy to blame himself for not going after her and abandoning her and therefore feel like he's responsible for what she's become and every atrocity she does, the blood is partially on his hands. Not that I think he's to blame, but he's just the kind of guy that holds himself responsible, even when it defies all reason to do so. Also, you have Raynor probably blaming himself for Mengsk's rise to power in the first place. Raynor's raid in Terran 4 is what got the Sons of Korhal the schematics for psi emitters, which made Antiga and Tarsonis possible. From a certain point of view, you could make an argument that Raynor is indirectly responsible for everyone who died when the Zerg overran both worlds. That argument is, in my opinion, flatly bullshit, but I find it easy to imagine Raynor drifting into that line of thinking. He was directly supporting Mengsk through many of the Sons' toughest battles as they overthrew the Confederacy and took over, and Raynor then in Brood War outright saved Mengsk from execution by the UED (on Kerrigan's orders, no less). I would imagine that Raynor's not only blaming himself for leaving Kerrigan to die, he's blaming himself for not stopping Mengsk before he took power in general.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 14, 2023 19:47
|
|
|
For me, the trick to this mission is that the SCVs only need to return the canister to a command center. And command centers can relocate. Say, right next to an altar. Simplifies things quite a bit.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 15, 2023 12:26
|
|
|
Torchlighter posted:What a coincidence, that's their function in SC1! Goliaths would be fine except for some reason basically everything that isn't a marine is overcosted or has another glaring flaw. With Golaiths, they require an upgrade to be truly solid, but they also cost 3 times in minerals and supply (and 50 gas) what a marine costs while providing about 1.5 - 2x the value in DPS or relevant damage. And for some reason they share weapon sounds with another unit that we'll see later. They're another campaign-only unit, and except for Medics and maybe Science Vessels, I feel like every campaign-only unit in Wings of Liberty is intentionally hamstrung in some way. That Blizzard was deliberately going "See? This is why you don't want them as a regular unit." Blizzard got steadily better about giving the player more freedom and power in the campaigns as SC2 went on, but Wings sure does love saddling you with a ton of units you'll never use except maybe in their introduction mission.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 15, 2023 18:32
|
|
|
Sorry, Tosh, but I like Nova's unit more than yours.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 16, 2023 15:33
|
|
|
Per Blizzard's early videos about SC2, I think the idea is that goliaths were cut because Blizzard wanted a more mobile, aggressive style of play and felt that goliaths contributed to what they perceived as a static, slow-moving style of play.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 18, 2023 16:03
|
|
|
FoolyCharged posted:Swan gets goliaths in co-op too, but the variations have been in since wings. But yeah, if it's not in the campaign the randomized paint jobs are cut content they left in the editor. Nova also gets goliaths in co-op, and hers are pretty dang useful since in my experience she's usually using her barracks cooldown on ghosts and goliaths are a good flex pick that can work against any target, plus they have Nova's lockdown missiles if you're facing Terran or Protoss.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 18, 2023 17:47
|
|
|
Bloody Pom posted:Mathing it out in my head, a Battlemech based on that design would be an undergunned deathtrap unless it was upscaled considerably. If kept at its current size, it'd have multiple small, ammo-dependent weapons, leading to anemic damage output and a tendency to explode violently when shot. Two autocannons of some description, two LRM racks, maybe a flamer if you want to nod to the scrapped original design from SC1. Sounds to me like an Archer and a Rifleman had a drunken one-night stand and this popped out.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 19, 2023 00:01
|
|
|
BisbyWorl posted:It's not just text, fine details in general become hard to make out. For what it's worth, I've never sized any of my LPs to go into the archive for this reason. I think the archive size works well for handheld games and games with simple UIs and very clear, distinguishable graphics, but doesn't work well for anything complex.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 24, 2023 18:49
|
|
|
So long, Zeratul. You were cool in SC1, now you're a Blizzard plotbot.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 29, 2023 13:47
|
|
|
Tenebrais posted:Also, as Cythereal said, this is all Zeratul is doing through the whole game. He has no personality any more, he's just here to tell the main characters what they're supposed to be doing next in the script. Wings of Liberty at times reminds me of a tabletop RPG campaign where the DM gets progressively more frustrated that the players aren't following his elaborate plot and backstory. The players for Raynor, Matt, Hanson, and Tosh want a space cowboy opera that's half Star Wars and half Serenity. Zeratul is the DMNPC awkwardly shoved in to tie the protagonists to the railroad tracks.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 29, 2023 14:50
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 16, 2024 08:52 |
|
|
That whole scene was Blizzard writing a check they simply couldn't cash. To me, at least, it's a similar effect to Sovereign's conversation on Virmire in Mass Effect 1: a scene late in the game that suddenly recontextualizes the entire scope of the game and setting, but the sequels just could not live up to the menace of that one big scene.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 29, 2023 21:05
|
|