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(Thread IKs: harrygomm, Astryl)
 
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Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice
If you're not picking poo poo up, you've probably not yet reached the point in the game where you need to reroll affixes on gear to avoid hitting a brick wall.

Then the first time you go for that 3rd or 4th crack at that cooldown reduction or crit roll on an otherwise ace bit of gear and see your last 500k gold vanish for the choice of 3 stats that do absolutely nothing for your damage or survivability, you'll wish you had been picking poo poo up.

Inflation has really hosed up the enchanting market in TYOOL 2023. Please sell the dungeon trash.

Love and kisses, future you.

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Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice
I got more xp and loot from killing a treasure goblin 5 mins later than I did from my world boss kill today. I was about .5% of an xp bar off lvl 72 going in - at the end I had .4% left and a cache I can't open.

TY little screaming loot pinata.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice

Gejimayu posted:

My whirlwind bleed build was feeling weak at 55 so I respecced to robs latest ww build but its clearly for a higher level than im at. Biggest issue is fury gen. Anybody recommend one that can clear the capstone at around 60? I don't want to redo all my aspects and still not have a strong build.

Haven't rolled a barb yet, but currently levelling my 3rd char into WT4, and the best advice I can give anyone is this:

Lvl 50-58 is basically the awkward adolescent stage for a lot of builds, and the less time you spend there the better.

Drop nightmare difficulty and until you can clear reliably and quickly even with shittier aspects, and run WT3 helltides whenever they're up.

Most of the meta endgame builds suck until you can roll more vuln crit and CDR/ resource gen than sacred quality gear has to offer. You also have maybe one Paragon board and are missing key glyphs/nodes that start to come online around 60-70 and give you a big boost.

Or just get a carry through some lvl 20 nightmares for an hour, replace all your gear with ilvl 700,+ sacreds, upgrade anything good into the ancient bracket and then start farming the top of tier 3 until you're ready for T4 helltides.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice
Decided to roll S1 as a rogue, after experiencing NM50 as a sorc and noping out of that hot mess.

Playing with Wudijo's Flurry+Rapid Fire build ATM and it's pretty fun. Bit less tricky than twisting blades on a controller, although it is frustrating when you're all set up to delete something with RF and the drat game just decides you didn't want it to autotarget the only drat thing left in the room, standing right in front of you :negative:

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice
Just farm up a Stolen Vigor aspect and run flurry rapid fire or double imbuements TB and speedrun your way to 80.

wudijo has crafted two of the most sorted builds in the game right now for levelling/farming at speed. I'm about 64 and still mostly rocking sacred gear, and everything in WT4 just dies.

Except varjan he's a punk.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice

ClydeFrog posted:

I got my vile around 80 I think but in a nm dungeon. It's very worth it. That and the DR one go really well together.

Does anyone know how the damage reduction and then explode it out works exactly? I've been working on the assumption that it fills up in some way so you need to empty it on the regular but I've no idea if that is true.

If you're running a standard Rogue TB or Flurry build, you probably don't have the skill on your bars to unload it - but it doesn't matter, the flat damage reduction makes it extremely valuable, especially at higher level content.

18-22% non-additive DR would beat out max roll disobedience on an amulet on a rogue I assume, seeing as they have less armour to go around in general. Same would go for sorc.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice
No longer having a 100% chance to roll crit on rings is making the loot treadmill way more frustrating for me. I picked up a 2/4 umbral with a middling vuln roll and was hoping to keep it until an ancestral with at least 2 of crit dmg / chance / vuln /max life and the right socket dropped, but I ended up having to extract it.

5 mins later I gambled a 4/4 though so I guess it's cool.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice
Just cleared my first NM50 on an 81 twisting blades rogue with poo poo damage reduction but a 2.5 barber and fairly decent offensive rolls. Rockin something like +290 vuln dmg and just socketed Turf. Feels good man.

Think I topped out at 48 on my 97 arc lash sorc in eternal before the Bad Patch so pretty happy with this one so far.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice
My partner and I decided to jump into the season about a week ago, and casually making our way through WT3 at the moment - granted our local timezone is GMT+8, but the legion and world boss events have been absolutely dead - maybe 1-2 additional players showing up - wheras last time we played early in S2 there were still 10+ even at 10pm on a Monday night. Might just be that we came in late to the season, but would expect to see a few more stragglers/people working on alts...

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice
Apparently D IV hits Xbox Gamepass on March 28th.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice

harrygomm posted:

that's weird timing still imo. land it at the start of season 4, have people jump in right when new content drops. don't get them used to an old itemization system right before rug pulling it. more weird/bad choices

Personally I'm stoked. I bought the game on Xbox at launch because my PC at the time was trash - but I've since upgraded, and it's a pain in the rear end not being able to play if my kids want to use the Xbox (aka when they're awake).

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice
I took S3 off and came back about 2 weeks ago, so after the early season tuning pass - and tbh the game seems in a better place than it has since launch to me.

-Difficulty and level scaling has been really pleasant, with no really noticable speedbumps or brick walls
-Gear scaling has been good. By about Lvl70 I had all my aspects on gear with 2-3 of my top 5 desirable rolls, and have only had a couple of hours here and there where I had a new rare without a spare aspect for it
-Had 3/4 of my build-recommended Uniques since T3, and now 4/4 with 3/4 ancestral by lvl 85
-Gameplay feels solid, the vault density is a major improvement on even the better nightmare dungeons.
-Helltides are fun for an occasional blat for forgotten souls, and I've built up a decent supply of living steel when I start doing Duriel runs.
-itemisation is still probably the main pain point, so hopefully the tweak in S4 means fewer full inventories full of yellows between potential upgrades.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice
Just watched the Wudi summary of the campfire and yeah wow, they finally worked out that late D3 got poo poo right.

Feels like there's going to be a proper endgame now, and way better gear scaling.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice
Seconding the suggestion to do the campaign and side quests now ahead of season 4.

Most of the issues being addressed in S4 relate to the end game, and won't have much impact at all while you're levelling. You don't hold onto gear long enough for the itemization to matter, and there's heaps of pretty engaging content to keep you going from level 1 to about 65.

You need to do side quests for reknown anyway, and are unlikely to do it more than once. Once the season kicks off you will be ready to join everyone else as they rush to WT4 in 1-3 days in a mad poopsocking frenzy.

This is the way.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice
Lol the gamepass > battlenet integration has completely bricked the Xbox app on my PC, ironically making Diablo IV the only gamepass game I can play now.

App boots up fine on my GF's profile on my PC and my profile on hers, and it's apparently happening to a lot of people according to a random Reddit post I found.

Most likely affects people who already had battle.net installed before "installing" DIV.

Hopefully it'll get patched because even resetting and repairing the app didn't fix it.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice
The PTR boost is a great idea. If they keep that going we should have a much deeper understanding of the endgame meta, as it'll give the maxroll and similar theory crafting folks a lot more opportunities to try weird and unconventional builds without having to level characters to 100 first.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice
I think it's due to the fact that half of the Goon Diablo fan base think build guides are for smooth-brained morons who can't sum 2+2, and that if people experiment it'll make the game richer; while the other half can't wrap our brains around why someone would not want to take advantage of the knowledge provided by an army of YouTube-funded auteurs to and spend more time killing rooms and looting gear.

I'm in the latter camp, for clarity.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice
I can't think of anything that is more ARPG/Blizzard than having skills, skill tree forks or entire classes that are useless/broken and stay that way for multiple years.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice
Also, most sorc builds I've used take both ice armor and flame shield for the Conceited bonus, and by lvl 100 you're at or close to 100% uptime between the two. My blizzard sorc is an absolute damage sponge even with only one defensive aspect remaining.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice

Blue Raider posted:

Yeah, raiment, esu’s heirloom, and tibault. It’s a fun mobile class, but I’m not smart enough to make it do ridiculous damage.

The blizzard sorc is pretty fun this season. I imagine you can swap into that with about 10 mins of work to swap skills and drop Glacial and Frozen Tundra on an amulet and weapon accordingly. Uses the same uniques, run Prodigys and Umbral if you don't have either of the rings.

Edit: Key thing to remember: The roll on Frozen Tundra doesn't matter. The roll on Glacial is -everything-

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice
I think for all D3's flaws compared to other ARPGs (endgame builds having to revolve around either full set bonuses or no sets at all for example), it does handle end game loot/power progression a lot better than the current DIV systems:

- You get your set/complementary legos and bring the build online and start pushing into greater rifts
- You start replacing them with Ancient versions, which allows you to push into higher greater rifts and get more paragon XP, blood shards, as well as access to a larger pool of legendaries from RG drops
- You start picking up better-rolled versions of ancients and primals if you decide to keep going
- paragon, legendary Gem ranks, stat breakpoints, enchanting rerolls and augments mean that even if the RNG screws you over for a while, you're always getting power boosts from somewhere.

You can quit and play something else/try a different build/roll another class at any point if it gets tiresome, but there's generally a linear progression all the way up to GR150 if you want there to be.

D4 currently has a number of brick walls that require you to beat some pretty awful RNG odds to see the same sort of continual improvement beyond a few hours into WT4, and there's not a great deal to do with it anyway. Hopefully the new systems and pit will bring things a bit closer. There's a lot I do prefer about the DIV systems, build variety and the aspect system especially.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice

Stux posted:

linear progression is boring and dull. rng drops are fun.

Oh, absolutely - there should always be hard to find, god-like chase items that rocket you into harder content or make farming hilariously easier - but you should be achieve this without the current WT4 experience of "I haven't found or been able to craft a worthwhile upgrade in 20 hours of play time and I'm not even at level cap"

Affix changes and tempering will hopefully smooth this over a bit, and making Uniques a bit easier to find while doing things other than farming specific bosses for them will hopefully keep the RNG drop fun factor there.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice

Jimbot posted:

Being able to craft and refine your items is a real good step in the right direction for me. But also having Uniques that are utterly broken that are rare drops would be nice. Of all the drops, these should be super exciting to get - some of them are! But having some sort of automated trade system in place would be fine. Like some sort auction house-like thing where it's "Offering X, looking for Y" that you simply slot the item they're looking for in and you instantly get the item they posted. Where items are the currency instead of gold.


One of the advantages of the Seasonal model is you can have a completely broken chase item that actually drops randomly in the world - but on a reasonably low chance - without massively breaking the meta, as the only real consequence is that lucky someone plows through the season journey faster than usual.

It's not like WoW or similar online RPGs where having such a thing could really disrupt progression-based competition for the entire length of an expansion, or make a PvP season unplayable if you don't have The Thing.

If you get it late in the game a broken Uber unique's not going to do much for you, given the lack of hardcore endgame content in the present game - but if you lucked into getting it early into WT4 and it lets you down the L200 uber bosses without spending a week or more farming masterworking mats and min-maxing your build with Greater Affix gear, that's still a win.

TyrantWD posted:

The way chase items work in D4 is completely backwards. If I am powerful enough to kill the boss that drops Uber uniques and have them on farm, why do I need the chase item that it drops? The quest to get a build enabling item for my Druid, when I already have to have a really good Druid build to farm it is silly, and its not going to keep people playing for long.

I'd rather see build enabling items start dropping in WT3 with reduced stats, and then have the uber bosses drop shards, in addition to items, that you take to a vendor and trade in for any unique item. Make the vendor versions have lower stats so the boss drop is still the best thing to get. You know what I want to do when I have a fairly geared out Druid that can beat endgame content? Try that cool looking Wizard build, or the new Necro build I see people playing. I might feel like I've had my fill of the season, but if I look at my stash and see I have enough shards to start up a new build for a new class, I'll be tempted to give it a shot rather than move on.

I think this would be a cool addition, and likely keep people engaged in the season a bit longer, which is clearly something they're driving for.

I want to say they had systems like this in WoW at various points when I played, that gave you universal rewards you could use to boost alts into endgame activities faster etc, and it was really neat. But I'm an alts guy, not everyone is going to run 2 classes in a single season.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice
Yeah honestly I can't recall a D3 build that doesn't benefit in some way from one of the 3 mercs.

You get tidy bonuses from auras, a cheat death, and either free healing or a big circle on the ground that gives you a damage bonus if you stand in it. Two if you give them an Occulus Ring. They don't account for much at lower power levels, but once you're pushing into higher GRifts that poo poo is absolutely mandatory.

On top of that one of the seasons bought in the Emanates property for a bunch of really amazing utility gear, meaning the legendary power applies to all members of the party. This allows you to take advantage of that stuff without having to find a way to incorporate it into your build. Again, if you're trying to push greater rifts without Nemesis Bracers, or farming paragon and upgrade mats without Cains/Sages set bonuses for additional XP and Deaths Breaths you're absolutely doing poo poo the hard way.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice
Took my LVL 89ish HOTA barb for his inaugural Duriel run the other day. Dropped him on the 3rd bonk.

Of the 4 or 5 helms that can drop, 3 of them are in some way useful for that build, with Tuskhelm being the more desirable non-uber and Harlequin probably being BiS

So I got an Andy's Visage of course.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice

Betjeman posted:

I also started playing diablo 4 and it was good and fun until I hit a wall with a minions build in tier 4.

I switched to bone spear and all is good and fun again. Although I would prefer it if there was more than 1 workable build.

Main issue I have with late game progression is how disjointed everything is, I need to do:

1) Run nightmare dungeons for glyph experience
2) Run helltides for item upgrade mats
3) Do open world/ whisper stuff for season progression/ renown
4) Run vaults to upgrade the spider thing (but from what I understand this won't persist beyond the season so I don't think I'll bother)

I gave up bothering on things like Lilith statues pretty early on. Does this really need to be repeated every season? Is there any way of finding them other than looking it up on a website?

Also, obols are giving me nothing in tier 4.

Your character also won't persist beyond the season - so none of the rest of that will matter in a month's time either.

What you should do now, if you haven't:

- Collect all of those Lilith statues. Each gives you a small buff, but they stack up a great deal in the end, and each gives you a small amount of relatively cheap renown
- Grind out the Renown bonuses for each zone - this persists season-to-season and gives you an absolutely massive head start in the early game, and again when you hit 50 and unlock paragon. It makes levelling in WT2 actually worthwhile, and moving to WT3 at around 45-50 possible and also worthwhile. - You should grab all the strongholds, statues, do side quests, many of which are fun, or really short and dead easy. They also give you obols and herbs which are useful to have. But this is the only way you're going to get all that renown besides slogging through 150 very similar and mostly annoying dungeons.
- Get all the waypoints and explore the map if you haven't. You will need to unlock the waypoints again, but the map carries over to a new season too

Beyond that, not much carries over, so just do whatever you enjoy until the season rolls over.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice
If you haven't played before and grabbed the boosts from the first 3 tiers of renown in each zone + the altars of lilith, WT2 will possibly be a bit slow going even with the xp buff due to the time taken to clear content, kill bosses, and dying to corpse archers 2 screens away etc. At launch it was still generally considered to be more efficient xp/hr to do WT1, especially if you were playing a slower class like barb, druid or in some circumstances necro.

See how you go, but if you're finding bosses or even packs of dungeon elites are taking more than a few seconds to kill, it's probably better to switch to WT1 until you can grab those extra skill points and stats from the renown+lilith statues. Once you've knocked that out, you're basically starting with a level 12 character against level 1 mobs, and you should be able to breeze through even in WT2 as long as you don't enter a zone or stronghold that's more than 4-5 levels too high for you.

Can't stress enough the value of those extra skill and stat points for a speedy run to level cap, and you literally can't finish an endgame build without those extra points.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice
They really leant into that very small but extremely vocal group of D2 grognards that see any QoL improvement over LoD to be a bridge too far.

Thankfully they seemed to have shuffled a bunch of the D3 season designers over now it's basically in maintenance mode, and some great decisions are being made by the looks.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice
Rares are useless now - you'll be junking everything bar legendaries, as they have one extra affix roll out of the box, and you can temper 2 more on there.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice
It's a bit unintuitive for me, given that one of the things that i thought was cool about the DIV loot model at launch was that rares were actually useful for something now - but the reality of that turned out to be inventory hell, so I'll take the improved codex mechanics and auto-salvaging rares after the first 20 mins after entering a new WT over the current format, every time.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice
As I understand it the general drop rate for loot is going to be a lot lower across the board - so you're likely still going to have to pick everything up until you're at a point where you no longer need veiled crystals for anything, but you will be auto-salvaging between runs and only stopping to check legendaries, ALA D3.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice

euphronius posted:

One YouTube I watched who played the ptr said the crafting is now so flexible in terms of stats you can add that the paragon board strategies have opened way up because there aren’t really mandatory paragon stuff you need (exploit)


Paying2Lurk posted:

Yeah it feels like there's going to be a lot more flexibility in everything.

Feels like. We'll see how it all shakes out, but I'm excited to try some wacky stuff in skills, glyphs, and nodes.

This will be awesome if it truly shakes out that way.

I played a lot more D3 than D2 (at least over the last decade and a half) and while the QoL is great where the game ended up, between the set bonus mechanics and the nature of the balancing passes season to season, build diversity was basically non-existent. No, you didn't have to copy the current season's S-tier set build to do well and have a good time - but your alternative was basically a similar formula based around an alternative set, or a specific set of legendaries needed for an LoD build to work. While there were variants tuned around different play styles and content, they were still basically working with the same set of core interactions between a set or LoD bonus or the same 4-5 legendary powers + skills, and I found there wasn't a whole lot of room to customise even compared to the current state of D4. Also there were several entire classes that were outright uncompetitive for the most part (Crusader, Witch Doctor)

If they can widen that out significantly further and give people more scope to roll their own weird and wonderful builds while still being able to engage with endgame progression content I'll be stoked.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice

Field Mousepad posted:

Diablo 6 lert rebergizz

Hey now. They have to actually give us Diablo before they can move onto Diablo 5, 6 etc.

Jokes aside, given the average time between Diablo games, I would be content with them feeding us a new act + prime evil via an expac every year or so, as opposed to releasing one expac and then a game mechanics tweak every 3-6 months for the next 6-10 years until they release the next one.

By the time we get 3 expansion acts down, you'll probably be able to finish the campaign and go straight into WT4.

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice
I was deadset on starting Rogue this season (even had a name picked out) - but it's looking like the class has had the least attention of the lot, and even Noted Rogue Stan Wudijo believes it's going to be the weakest class this season.

I played sorc at launch, and at the start of S1 and 3 so spose I should try druid or necro

Edit: Okay so it looks like Barrage Rogue is actually going to be a pretty good season starter after all, but drops down to "B-tier" in the end game. Probably will join team Minion Necro regardless.

Don Dongington fucked around with this message at 08:38 on May 9, 2024

Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice
If you haven't tried playing a recent gen shooter with a controller you may be surprised. They've really gotten it figured out in the last few years, whether it's crosshair movement or aim assist I don't know.

Case in point:
I bought fallout 3 on Xbox 360 once and couldn't hit the broad side of a Pentagon at 15 yards without VATS. Cut forward to now - my kid convinced me to play a few rounds of Fortnite on the Series X, and I found myself popping pubbies in the head with relative ease.

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Don Dongington
Sep 27, 2005

#ideasboom
College Slice
Yeah Macro, the maxroll crew and basically everyone involved in theorycrafting builds for S4 were already running on the assumption that this would happen, and that Minion necro would still end up top of the pile regardless.

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