|
Leperflesh posted:I'm having a hard time understanding why it's not clear that Framboise agrees that it's bad to stan for Wizards of the Coast against the desire of workers to get paid? That is what Framboise agrees with, and had that criticism been posted a week ago or about someone who hadn't just died, it would not have drawn any sort of penalty. I think it's a matter of "Do we need to turn this into another front in the war against global capital?" A guy who helped mainstream Commander and make it the most popular and widely-played game format has markedly impacted WotC's business practices. Still, we don't need to make a sign of the cross and spit on the ground to repel the dark capitalist energies every MtG personality gives off whenever one comes up for any reason. Particularly when it doesn't feel like the person going "good riddance" really cares that much about the workers or whatever in other scenarios (see: Kai Tave pointing out Toshimo's reaction to the Pinkerton incident) and mostly just seems mad at Commander as a format. These tabletop games are all big luxury items we're voluntarily engaging with. They're often made of wasteful cardboard and plastic components shipped across the planet. Sniping at one another over who is a worse collaborator with the 1% is a really asinine micro-conflict to have.
|
#
¿
Sep 11, 2023 02:55
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 15, 2024 02:49 |
|
|
Toshimo posted:The loudest voices in both, and those making slanderous false claims, are people who never posted here and just showed up to drive-by and toss gas on the fire after the probe. I guess we thank Nuns With Guns for letting that whole thing ferment over there and spill out here. People remarking on a leper's colony entry, who also post in TG, verbalizing that they thought the probation language had issues in two threads is not some simmering kettle I'm letting boil over. And as far as I see those are both the majority and the loudest voices in the MtG thread and here.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 11, 2023 14:52
|
|
|
Toshimo posted:People making fake claims of offsite drama while you post in the the thread in a forum you moderate while just letting it all ramp up is 100% on you. I'm fine with talking about whether or not it was appropriate for people to air discord drama in the Legends thread, but as far as I see it was two people who jumped into the MtG thread who mentioned that, and I wouldn't call them the loudest voices calling for action on your post. There were way more words said by people who had been posting in that thread than anything else. I do feel like that's drifting outside of TG issues on moderating thread behavior and tone though. Is that the main concern you have here? I'm only asking because it might be more appropriate to talk about it in SAD or the PYF feedback thread. I'm okay with PMing, too, but I know how it looks like a problem vanishes when it's taken to PMs.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 11, 2023 15:13
|
|
|
Fajita Queen posted:They aren't fake, you just deleted the posts immediately after making them because you knew people would screenshot them if you didn't. This happened several times and the mod logs of you getting banned for doing that poo poo still exist on at least one discord server that I can search right now. Personally, I take accounts and logs of Discord stuff on good faith. I feel like there's been way too many instances where people have slid by on here because drama involving them was isolated to Discords and people feel like they can't share that information here without eating a ban. People should feel like they can bring awful poo poo up if someone is sliding into discords and being a bigot or abuser because they're sourcing links to those communities from SA. There is also a difference between pulling up outside issues because there's a problem that needs addressing and spilling tea. It doesn't have to be malicious or anything. I know I've run off things I remember without thinking much about it or expecting anything to be done about someone, too. I suppose it's something that needs to be handled thoughtfully and case-by-case, so at least in this situation I think we can focus in on acceptable posting behavior and attitudes posted in the thread itself that gives it a noxious stink while I poke at this other pile of hot wires. Toshimo posted:Honestly, yes, because now it's gone beyond PYF and TG and I'm seeing myself smeared as an alleged racist elsewhere and it's disgusting. Moderation in both places could have stepped in but didn't, and that's bullshit. I want to talk with Rhino before I set down any hard ground rules about the Legends thread, but I do agree that going from "I remember..." discussion into immediate calls for action is a really rapid escalation and it's not relevant or needed as "leverage" regarding the posting here anyway. Arivia posted:I distinctly remember Toshimo being racist to toasters in at least one forums BSG game we were both in. Like the device that toasts bread?
|
|
#
¿
Sep 11, 2023 18:28
|
|
|
Fajita Queen posted:It isn't weird at all, it's a very deliberate attempt to try to refocus the discussion onto something other than his toxic behavior in hopes that the mods will get distracted. And it's working, somehow? I was thinking I should say that my last post was my final thought on the Discord stuff, but I assumed my shift in the reply made it clear. Maybe not clear enough to make it explicit, so I'll say it directly now: I think we can drop the racism accusations and just focus on finding a better way to manage the card game threads if the posting in them is so noxious it drives people away. Same goes with anyplace else it feels like joyless whingeposting drags discussion down.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 11, 2023 23:04
|
|
|
dwarf74 posted:Man, either the threads I IK are too mellow, or I'm just not reading the right threads. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCeobgSWJHk
|
|
#
¿
Sep 12, 2023 03:00
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:What did the dead guy do that was so disagreeable actually, this is something I have not seen anyone elaborating on. Were they a huge sex creep? Did they organize harassment campaigns? Did they do a murder-suicide? My bar for "this person in the tabletop game industry did some heinous poo poo" is set around those levels so if this is just a case of "well they were an influencer and did influencer things" then that's really going to make this whole "he's an rear end in a top hat but he's right damnit" thing seem a lot sillier. Sheldon Menery was the guy who formalized Elder Dragon Highlander rules for Magic into the Commander fan ruleset. He was previously a Magic judge and cultivated himself into an influencer and oversaw the Commander Rules Committee. Commander's now overtaken every other format for Magic to be the most widely played. He just died after a 7 year battle with cancer. I don't know what the personal beefs are with him in this case? Sounds like it's either related to his affiliation with Magic judging (a usually unpaid bit of corporate labor) or the way the Commander format and ban list was cultivated?
|
|
#
¿
Sep 12, 2023 05:50
|
|
|
Xiahou Dun posted:But what exactly is the substantive difference between Rutibex’s bad lore advice vs. your bad system advice. Where’s this easy line you’re trying to draw? To talk in a broad way from a poster POV and not with any special mod insight or whatever, I think there's going to be some level of cyclical debate of TG topics. Games get a new edition, some rules addon, a new format, new players come in and ask old questions, people go back and reconsider things in retrospect, etc. If someone's giving bad advice, I think digging in and rebutting it is good. If it gets really heated and lost in the weeds, just stop it. Someone like Rutibex doing it repeatedly while people get fed up with it becomes its own problem that could just be settled with "You in particular have failed to make this case over and over and need to shut up about it." There was one point he farted out some old digs on 4e D&D and got immediately shut down, and good riddance to that. "Moron who is so absolutely confident in their rightness about something wrong and who won't shut up about it" is pervasive in TG spaces and a lot of other discussion spots get straitjacketed into this dilemma of "Well they're an ignoramus but they're not being *quite* rude enough to ban" and I always appreciated SA for being willing to just cut through that if someone's... abstractly awful for discussion? I suppose there's some risk of like, a large enough clique getting evangelical about their subjective opinion being absolute truth. That's also something that's just sort of innate in TG forums, in my experience, and usually exacerbated by people not having any firsthand experience with whatever game they're beefing on. It should be something everyone here's also cognizant of trying to avoid given all the 4e D&D canards that got frustratingly tossed around, or Pathfinder rules, or [insert your own particular game obsession nobody else plays, you know you have one.]
|
|
#
¿
Sep 12, 2023 23:45
|
|
|
I think there is a point to be made that Jeffrey did say something to the effect of "If someone sucks in a general sense, but isn't terrible enough to prompt strong mod action, this website is the kind of place that's welcome to tell them to gently caress off until they do." I'm sure that's not exactly what he said but there was some sentiment expressed in that way. Someone like Rutibex, that everyone agrees was "hard to mod" seems like the kind of person you would direct that "gently caress off" energy at if no other action was being taken. Or where that behavior would crop up naturally even without that directive in mind. But I think that only works in certain places here. The FYAD lite forums can push that, sure, or even a more caustic, silly place like GBS theoretically encourages that behavior. In a smaller/more sedate forum like TG, SH/SC, SAL, BFC, etc. that absolutely will make people's monocles pop out into their tea. Or it starts nestling into certain threads and tbh I wouldn't be surprised if that starts giving the thread a more "toxic" air than the place around it.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 13, 2023 17:40
|
|
|
I think it's reasonable to follow up on a report with the person who did the reporting if you don't act on the report itself. I don't know if it needs to be done every time, like "Hey I know you hate this person, but I am not acting on them contributing to the ham sandwich thread with reasonable advice on mayo application" is silly. If someone sends in a report that's borderline, or "This post gives me an off energy," or it seems like the reporter misunderstood the post, sure. Flagging every post that gets reported with a probation or something is a bad idea for a lot of reasons. Not saying follow up isn't happening here, but just pulling some constructive thoughts out of this exchange. e- but I do agree this would be a nice a forum-wide thing, not just in TG. Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Sep 17, 2023 |
|
#
¿
Sep 17, 2023 20:17
|
|
|
Trad Games: Mostly Here for the Pizza and Beer e- Trad Games: Hell Is Other People
|
|
#
¿
Nov 3, 2023 16:47
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 15, 2024 02:49 |
|
|
Ugly mug exchange, except it's the most horrific/criminal material you can craft a bespoke d20 out of to trade with another highly despicable die.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 21, 2023 06:51
|
|