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Lust and Gluttony absolutely fully embrace their sin anyway, it's just that their sins don't have to be "inherently" harmful in the way that Greed is. Asmodeus makes his position pretty drat clear, lust is best experienced when consensual, and even if that was "hypocritical" lust that both are feeling is more lust than just one person so mathematically him encouraging mutual, potentially self-destructive, lust makes perfect sense (he praises Stolas destroying his family for what he sees as lustful after all). Beelzebub wants people to be gluttonous for the sake of gluttony, to consume purely and for no reason other than they can. Blitzo in that sequence is consuming to escape, not just for the sake of it. He's not "gluttonous" he's depressed. To an extent Lustful for the sake of Lust (not to harm/hurt/break) and gluttonous for the sake of gluttony (not to distract/numb/self-immolate) are easier to bend towards a somewhat positive character than greed for the sake of greed. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Nov 2, 2023 |
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Nov 2, 2023 19:07
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Macaluso posted:I wonder if we'll eventually see all the sins (besides Lucifer) in Helluva Boss. We've only seen three, we haven't seen Sloth, Wrath or Envy yet. We haven't seen Envy the place at all though outside of a few of the fish demons We know some stuff, Leviathan of Envy is meant to be more, traditional, looking (so giant sea monster). Belphegor of Sloth is a lady, and friendly with Beelzebub, Satan is a beefy hunk and probably will look like a traditional big red demon with goat legs and muscled pecs.
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Nov 2, 2023 19:58
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Larryb posted:Finally caught up with this show and I have two questions: For 2. it's an Actor's Guild thing I believe. For 1. it happens when they're ready.
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Nov 8, 2023 17:48
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I imagine they will redo the pilot as a full episode, Happy Day in Hell sounds like a song that happens before the ill-fated tv spot. Plus there's actual characters for the Exterminators, so I could see Adam getting a song to introduce himself as the Angelic threat during the opening extermination.
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Nov 10, 2023 00:55
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I actually think if anyone in Blitzo's actual pseudo circle of relationships/friends/acquaintances is going to die it'll be Asmodeus. "You're gonna regret this, mate" and all that, it's a gut punch that would echo across the show (Blitzo and Stolas's relationship rebuilding, Fizz's love life, hell in general) but isn't going to crater anyone from IMP irrevocably, although obviously for Fizz it'll be pretty loving awful. That's not to say Stryker isn't also likely to die, but if there's a "heroic" figure that gets got I think Asmodeus has the biggest narrative impact but also the easiest narrative to write for.
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Nov 15, 2023 11:30
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Flopsy posted:True but the dude is a deadly sin and one of the major rulers of hell. He'd be pretty drat hard to actually kill. Out of the entire cast he would be the hardest TO off in all honestly the guy is millennia old and obviously studier than Stolas. Also I don't think Mammon would go so far and to try and kill him because Lucifer would come down on his rear end like a ton of bricks for upending his social order. Now torment him through his now obvious weakness or myriad of other ways sure I can see that coming. I didn't mean that Mammon would actually do it, just that it's a vibe that's been given. Asmodeus doing this is going to be less popular amongst the elite than Stolas' failing marriage, and Asmodeus is part of the Goetic family too.
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Nov 15, 2023 16:52
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Lilith is probably the first "Sinner" turned demonic being, and Charlie and Lucifer's appearances are pretty much rosy-cheeked porcelain dolls (all the angels are kind of doll/robot/inorganic, it's clever). Charlie's demonic horns literally break out the top of her head when she transforms in the pilot, so she's probably a lot closer to Lilith's appearance when going full demon. It's also plausible that Lucifer Morningstar (the first angel and first fallen) took over hell after falling, and is actually "newer" than the other Sins (although obviously not that new). Depending on what interpretation of hell is being mixed and matched. The fact that Satan exists separately could well mean that he was the original big demon boss for example. As for Bee, it's worth noting she apparently controls the Hellhounds in general, she's the one who signed off on Loona's adoption papers for Blitzo. So her relationship might be seen differently from a Sin dating an Imp (from another circle at that). The way that Imps get treated is also different from Hellhounds, the former are the lowest of the low, whilst the latter appear mostly to be discriminated against for being "animalistic/feral/wild" by some, notably Hellhounds can transform into humans like the Goetic family, Imps cannot. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Nov 16, 2023 |
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Nov 16, 2023 06:08
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I think the fact that all the Sins except Lucifer we've seen so far have been very animalistic rather than inorganic suggests they're all native Hell denizens, not fallen angels brought with Lucifer. Asmodeus and Bee are basically just super powerful unique versions of a Goetia Bird (Rooster) Demon and a Hellhound (Mixed with Queen Bee) to an extent for example. Mammon is a giant spider/tree, and what we've been told suggests Satan might be a giant traditional demon king (so big, red, horned and goat legged, I could see him looking a bit like a giant Imp actually if the other royalty being a demon class but supersized is consistent). The angels are very consistently some sort of doll/robot looking creature, Lucifer and Charlie are both Blushing China Dolls, the Cherubs are those little kids toys/stuffed animals/dolls, the exterminators are very robotic outside Adam who instead looks like a demon ascended to heaven (to contrast lucifer the angel fallen to hell) if anything. Leviathan is also supposedly very traditional looking, so giant sea monster.
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Nov 16, 2023 07:17
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I don't think the sins were ever literally part of a circus. They're circus themed, but that isn't the same thing. Also yes, Lucifer is intended to be the ringmaster (top hat, coat, cane). Asmodeus is meant to be the vegas style magician act actually (which makes Fizz his lovely assistant). I would assume Satan is the Strongman show themed one. But no idea what Leviathan and Belphegor would do, given what we know of the former is she's a much more traditional monster and we know literally nothing of the latter. But yeah it's a visual theming not a historical detail.
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Nov 16, 2023 18:34
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Rand Brittain posted:Is it that imps can't do this, or is it just that Loona and Tex have put more effort into actually learning how to use their supernatural powers while the imps at IMP prefer to focus on wreaking havoc instead of reading books? I don't think we've ever seen Imps do anything "supernatural" except exist or use supernatural tools powered by other sources if I'm being honest? The Succubi/Incubi can obviously disguise via magic too, and beyond that they use Asmodeus Crystals to get to Earth rather than Goetic Magic (which is what Stolas was trying to negotiate access for Blitzo/IMP to use).
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Nov 16, 2023 18:44
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Flopsy posted:Pretty sure she had a black market Asmodeon crystal she was using as jewelry. She was definitely using it for the portal, since it looks the same as the portal that is used by Verosika and her posse if I remember correctly? Which at least does make sense with the Stolas negotiating with Asmodeus bit. Where those crystals are the accessible way compared to Goetic magic to access Earth from Hell or something.
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Nov 17, 2023 05:16
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Didn't realise Ozzie is styled on a magician but now I see it. By elimination I think we'll probably see one themed on an acrobat (though heh, now the weird visual similarity between Mammon and Robin from Teen Titans makes sense) and maybe a freak show. Freak Show for Leviathan (the most traditional monster of the Sins) makes sense to me then. Which leaves Belphegor (sloth) as an unknown. Although considering Glitz and Glam are sort of implied to be from Envy Leviathan the Acrobat could be interesting? Think acrobatic Seal/Whale shows but with a giant demon sea monster. Mammon may not do it himself much anymore, but his clown style is a bit acrobatic (and Glitz/Glam and Fizz are clearly intended to be acrobatic clowns/jesters in his "style/image" from when he actually performed himself), also his whole spider-motif and high-wire webbing seat. Based on what we've seen and has been said, Lucifer = Ringmaster, Asmodeus = Stage Magician, Beelzebub = Animal Show, Mammon = Clown/Jester/(Acrobat?). Satan is almost certainly a Strongman just because what's been said about him is almost always in relation to his muscles/physical appearance and his particular phone app is a workout support app. Leviathan and Belphegor are unknown, although Leviathan's app has the thespian Masks as an inspiration, and Belphegor's appears to be drug/pill related. Leviathan as stage narrator storyteller would be interesting, and Belphegor being the foodstand/ticket seller/ Flopsy posted:I recall when her illusion broke apart it kind of shattered like crystal shards so I kinda figured it's a two in one thing for imps. Honestly this just suggests to me that Asmodean Crystals have a prebuilt set of spells that anyone can use, Portal to Earth, Human Disguise, maybe some other options as well. Which would definitely make them very valuable for IMP, who aren't even SUPPOSED to be using Stolas' book at all.
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Nov 17, 2023 07:26
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Flopsy posted:Eh, that can kinda be worked in as a desperation kinda thing I reckon. I meant's not game breaking or anything. Considering Lilith doesn't answer, and it seems like she and Charlie haven't talked in a while at all, I agree.
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Jan 11, 2024 00:38
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I have a pretty big theory to one thing the extermination Angels look like demons because they ARE demons. Of a sort, Adam still ate the apple, he still sinned, even if he was let into heaven that stain remains. So the Executioners are mortals turned "angels" but who sinned in a specific way that Heaven cannot fully accept them. This is why they're so different from the Cherubs and what we see of Lucifers tier.
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Jan 16, 2024 03:02
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It's also very likely that Charlie has been separated from the worst of hell simply because nobody wants to hurt the King's daughter no matter how little they respect her. Threaten Charlie the wrong way and Lucifer is going to give you a bad time if he hears about it, now that she's actually making an independent effort she's opening herself up to dangers she'd never encountered before. So her world view is likely very sheltered just from who her parents are in the grand scheme of things.
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Jan 21, 2024 08:57
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Macaluso posted:Actually a majority of the characters that we've met so far are former humans, far more than Helluva Boss. I think the only ones that straight up aren't are Charlie and Lucifer. I think every other major character was once human, this includes the angels. I'm really interested in how the various overlords got the power they got, especially Vox and Alastor, though I imagine Alastor's stuff is not going to be revealed for an extremely long time. I do have one specific character I theorise might not have been human, which is Zestial might be another Fallen Angel.
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Jan 21, 2024 23:17
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Macaluso posted:Yeah I guess I should say as far as we know based off the rules of the universe at this point. Obviously people have a similar theory about Vaggie If Vaggie is an exorcist she'd have still been human at some point, especially since we've been told how she died as a human and what she did in life by word of god I think? Whereas my thought with Zestial is that he's an angel who sided with Lucifer way back and is now hiding it to be part of the otherwise Human Sinner overlords as their eldest and "guide". Mostly because he is the Oldest Overlord, and his name sounds "Angelic" to me, and his general look is rather different than most Sinner demons even with how varied they can be. He's got a sort of run down carnival ring leader look to him, which Lucifer also has going on. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Jan 21, 2024 |
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Jan 21, 2024 23:21
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The City that IMP have their office is in the Pride Ring though, that's how they can meet clients. It isn't Pentagram City though (which is where Hazbin takes place).
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Jan 21, 2024 23:31
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Larryb posted:Has it been stated what Satan's role in the food chain is then considering that Lucifer's the King of Hell? Satan is the King of Wrath like Mammon is Greed and Ozzy is Lust. Also might be the strongest of the Sins besides Lucifer/Pride?
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Jan 22, 2024 03:13
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Given they've implied Satan is the standard big, red, muscle demon with Horns. It might be that much like Beezlebub is the Queen of Hellhounds alongside Gluttony, Satan might be the "leader" Imp. In that the way he looks is basically just a really big Imp.
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Jan 22, 2024 03:21
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Larryb posted:Based on the traditional depictions I expect Satan to effectively be a giant hulking Imp, Leviathan to be some kind of serpent, and Belphegor maybe to be somewhat goat like (then again Beelzebub is commonly depicted as an insect rather than a hellhound and Asmodeus also looks nothing like the common representation of him so maybe the traditional depictions aren't the best indicators here) They've said Satan is very much more in the traditional design, although yes exceptionally muscular with his shirt off. Beelzebub gets more insectile when she starts to go to her full sized sin form too, although Bee rather than Fly. Asmodeus actually does have some design elements from his normal stuff, notably the goat and bull head/skull either side of his main one and the rooster legs. Leviathan is also definitely inhuman they've said, and the largest of the Sins physically. So she's probably a giant Sea Monster. The other main thing is the Sins are meant to all be parts of a circus troupe (Ringleader Lucifer, Stage Magician Asmodeus, Strongman Satan, Animal Tamer/Act Beelzebub, Clown Mammon) so the remaining Sins will have to fit that vibe somehow, Leviathan as the sideshow freak wouldn't be the weirdest one, especially if she's Envious of the more humanoid Sins. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Jan 22, 2024 |
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Jan 22, 2024 05:21
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Madurai posted:I know Word of Viv says they're the same universe, but I've seen no evidence of this onscreen yet, and am not convinced they really need to be. You can see Charlie's musical number from the Hazbin Pilot happening in the background of a Helluva Boss Episode at one point.
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Jan 22, 2024 07:26
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All the diving through rings she does is meant to be the Lions jumping through Rings thing.
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Jan 22, 2024 10:08
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Megillah Gorilla posted:It seems like an angel tried to kill the daughters of the gun running hellboss lady. All three of them are Sinners, so not off-limits. Presumably the mother died and then when her daughters died brought them in on her weapons business. Angel Dust's Mafia family is also around (and do not like him). Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 11:09 on Jan 22, 2024 |
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Jan 22, 2024 11:07
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Larryb posted:Also Bee was fun and I hope we get to see her again one day (as I said, Mammon is really the only rear end in a top hat of the bunch so far but since he’s Greed that kind of comes with the territory). Belphegor is going to be genderswapped like Beelzebub was, and no we haven't seen any demons definitely associated with her ring. Glitz and Glam are probably Sirens from Envy (but not definitely).
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Jan 22, 2024 12:37
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Larryb posted:I assume the remaining three Sins don’t have any official art to go with their descriptions like Lucifer and Lilith do right? Either way I imagine we’ll formally meet them all eventually (also to clarify, is this version of Leviathan male or female?) I think Leviathan is female, to more of less balance the Sins. 3 males (Asmodeus, Mammon, Satan) and 3 females (Beelzebub, Leviathan and Belphegor). With Lucifer above them as Pride, but married to Lilith as an equal leader/ruler. Plus Leviathan as a female sea monster comes up in the actual Book of Enoch. Edit: No official designs yet yes, just the statement that Satan and Leviathan are the most "traditional/accurate" to their inspirations (big red demon and sea serpent respectfully). Which suggests Belphegor will not be particularly traditional (genderswapped for one thing). Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Jan 23, 2024 |
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Jan 23, 2024 15:17
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Larryb posted:Speaking of, I wonder if we’ll ever meet this universe’s version of God one day and how big of an rear end in a top hat he’ll end up being The opening (probably biased) tale of Lucifer and Lilith said Heaven was ruled by elders who worshipped goodness itself, which is represented by a large feminine angel figure. If there is a god, either they've been removed from the version of Genesis Charlie has been taught, or they're the "goodness itself" worshipped by the Angels.
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Jan 23, 2024 17:12
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I will say, any character who has a voice actor in both shows probably would be plausible to show up in Hazbin. I could see Blitzo having a bit part related to the whole Sinners hiring IMP thing kind of going counter to the Hotel's method/mission for example. Also in terms of cancellation, Amazon might not do the right thing, but Hazbin Hotel has A24 backing it and they're more likely to keep shopping it around if Amazon drops it than drop it too. As they're sort of an indie support network by default and that's the point. Worst comes to worst they might just make it available through their app for purchase like the early release was. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Jan 25, 2024 |
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Jan 25, 2024 03:34
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In relationship to a prior discussion about the nature of "God" in the setting. The trailer had a momentary shot of a character named Sera, who is a feminine future angel character, but more notably. When shown the Elders/Angels of Heaven in episode 1 they're all Biblically Accurate wheels of fire and eyeballs etc. The "Good" they worship is obviously female coded (between the eyelashes and long flowing hair) and then the next time we see the Biblically Accurate leadership as they work on Earth they're joined by a much larger Angel, with 6 wings, whose Crown is exactly the same shape as Sera's from the trailer. So if we get a "God" in show it'll probably be Sera, and she might be a Demiurge/Yaldabaoth style god rather than a true biblical one. An Usurper unaware she has usurped.
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Jan 25, 2024 07:24
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Honestly I think the biggest missing thing is that nobody pointed out that Angel's few good deeds do not negate a lifetime, and after-lifetime, of bad. He's improving, but that doesn't mean he would have "balanced the ledger" so to speak. None of which Sera or Adam particularly care to explore, but I suspect redemption might require performing an equal amount of good as you have done bad, not just a few signs of improvement.
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Jan 26, 2024 13:01
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Velvette is about as old as Vox and Valentino as far as when she died, she just is basically the only overlord who enjoys modernising. She chases the latest trends in everything even though she died in the 60s or something. The Vees all arrived close together and quickly formed a collaboration effort. Hidingo Kojimba posted:Kind of funny when it's put down like that, but Sir Pentious is one of the oldest sinners in the series other than Zestiel and he's basically a nobody in hell. Makes you wonder how he survived so many executions. Someone suggested that he might have worked for an Overlord that Alastor killed and overthrew. Hence the 20 fights even though Alastor has been gone for 7 years.
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Jan 28, 2024 00:03
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I think any character who has a voice actor in both series is plausible, and frankly the Sins in general seem like the most obvious to show up at least once in Hazbin even if they're mostly in HB. Just because I can easily imagine Lucifer calling them in for a song/fight/plot beat.
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Jan 28, 2024 00:24
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Madurai posted:The -iel ending implies that Zestiel is also a fallen angel, like Lucifer. This is my opinion, Zestial is a fallen angel who doesn't want the attention and so is acting as a Mortal Overlord instead. It would explain why Lucifer is willing to hang with him in the pilot, beyond just uncertainty about the overall story. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Jan 28, 2024 |
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Jan 28, 2024 01:05
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a neat cape posted:So are the Exorcists heavenborn? Is Lute a Heavenborn or Sinless? Sinless would be the mortal opposite of Sinners yeah? Given they're all female looking I'm guessing it's just Adam building a fanclub of ladies amongst mortal "Winners" in heaven.
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Jan 28, 2024 02:46
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Megillah Gorilla posted:So can the sinners have children in hell? Because Carmilla had her two "daughters" with her. No, Sinners (except Lilith?) cannot have children in Hell. Hellborn and definitely the Goetia can. Fallen Angels presumably can. Those were probably her daughters in life, reunited in death. Given how protective she is, they may have even died before her.
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Jan 28, 2024 18:00
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Diabetic posted:I'm almost 100% certain we're getting angels above Sera, her being scared proves it, and even in Lucifer's songs he shows monolithic angels which will probably be the equivalent of Archangels like Michael, Uriel, Gabriel, Raphael. Probably no God outside of maybe an unknown figure, but definitely a step above Sera. Sera is one of those monolithic angels. She's the biggest one in the image of them working on heaven, you can tell by the crown and 6 wings and hair.
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Jan 29, 2024 04:25
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Oxxidation posted:it was probably a slight tactical whoopsie for adam to publicly broadcast his point of descent after everyone learned that angels are killable Only Alastor and Carmilla (plus associates) know how though. But yes, I expect the Overlords might be forced to raply around the Hotel in episode 8.
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Jan 30, 2024 06:18
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Darth Walrus posted:I also think there's a non-zero chance of Alastor making a proper heel turn so that Sir Pentious can replace him as the hotel's building supervisor. Seems like the sort of job in which the guy might finally flourish. I think Husk is actually more likely to end up taking Alastor's place as the Hotel patron. He's already an overlord (sort of), if he got his soul back from Alastor as part of said heel turn I could see him chosing to stay with the Hotel and take over Alastor's "duties".
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Jan 30, 2024 09:42
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Macaluso posted:I like that the cannibals all had the same design choices and I wonder if you get certain form based around how you sinnned and if some are just more common than others. There's aren't any other TV heads that we've seen yet, and some seem to get a form based on how they died like Alastor. But then like the cannibals, there seems to be a whole bunch of dinosaur sinners I feel like the nature of your sin/actions probably defines how you look. Hence the very similar look to all the cannibals of cannibal town (and in fact Alastor shares their teeth).
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Feb 2, 2024 12:41
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Njashi9 posted:It would be nice to see some explanation in the show on how/why sinners are limited to the Pride ring. Like are the physically unable to leave, or just forbidden from doing it? Is the rule set by Lucifer and the Sins? Is it to protect the rest of the inhabitants of hell from sinners and/or limit the damage of the exterminations? Mostly Voice Actor stuff I would expect, it's why I think any voice actor that is on both shows would allow any of their characters in either. Kesha might be a problem to get back for Beelzebub, but that's true no matter where they use her. I think Lucifer in HB is more likely than the Sins in Hazbin, but either direction seems the most plausible. As for the limitation thing, I think protecting the rest of hell from Sinners sort of makes sense, Sinners can only be permanently killed with Angelic Weapons, but most hellborn demons die when they are killed. So if Sinners, especially overlords, could go to other rings they'd start to take over from the existing hellborn just due to the partial power imbalance. The Seven Sins and Geotia can't be everywhere, and we've seen some of them (Mammon, Stella and her Brother) don't give a poo poo about lesser Hellborn anyway. Imagine an Overlord in Greed who could keep Mammon happy and thus is allowed to be EVEN WORSE than they already are.
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Feb 4, 2024 02:30
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