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Roth posted:It's fine, I'm more just dealing with my own dysphoria this weirdly caused in me. Dang.  I kinda sucks when movies do stuff like this. I’m sorry homie
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Jul 21, 2023 13:33
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The number one Barbie review on Letterboxd has 15k likes and is about dropping your kids off to watch it so you could go to Oppenheimer. It couldn't be anymore wrong because this felt like a PG-13 movie that only adults would get.
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Jul 21, 2023 14:44
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It’s not remotely a kids movie. I don’t know what little kids could get out of this other than colors. Slightly older kids might dig it though
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Jul 21, 2023 15:05
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I'm somewhat interested in seeing this but not terribly - is this an existential comedy? Like living in oblivion but the framing device is being a toy instead of making a movie? I don't know what it's compared to. I'm not trying to be a dick with this question. When I think Oppenheimer I think Patton biopic, for comparison
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Jul 21, 2023 15:11
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It’s a social commentary comedy
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Jul 21, 2023 15:45
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CelticPredator posted:It’s a social commentary comedy Neat, thanks.
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Jul 21, 2023 16:02
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Disharmony posted:The number one Barbie review on Letterboxd has 15k likes and is about dropping your kids off to watch it so you could go to Oppenheimer. you've got those reversed, which is the whole joke of the review
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Jul 21, 2023 16:30
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R. Guyovich posted:you've got those reversed, which is the whole joke of the review To quote Oppie: I'm an idiot.
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Jul 21, 2023 17:07
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On the one hand, my expectations were greatly surpassed, and I really enjoyed myself. I knew it’d be fun and cute, but it’s also fundamentally humanist by way of its feminism and it’s constantly self-aware and no one is safe. The segment where Ruth Handler shows up and starts casually talking about the problems with tax evasion that got her canned from Mattel cracked me up. Everyone is committed 110% to the Barbie Bit and it’s fantastic. On the other hand, it’s just fundamentally limited by being a movie about a product that would very much like to focus on individual change and What Barbie Means to Women rather than anything structural, which might have meant starting to ask questions about what people are supposed to do to create structural change after being empowered, and questioning whether or not we should really be buying enormous amounts of plastic anyway. A straw girl shows up to represent A Very Basic Case Against Barbie where she calls Barbie a fascist and that’s about as far as its critique goes on a structural level for Barbie herself. Both the product and the movie about the product can only go so deep in the change they make, and pointing out that patriarchy is a problem was only ever going to go so far. Still, it feel to me like it communicates something new and meaningful just by condensing and amplifying basic feminist principles into a set of solid, commonly understood set of cultural facts. The movie also wants to make the not entirely invalid point that at the end of the day, Barbie is a kind of imaginary canvas for humans, and expecting more from a canvas is kind of a crapshoot. And it’s simple but I think there’s something really cool about there being no powerful, smart, important men in the film, or any men at all on screen for the first 7? minutes or so. Go see it! 
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Jul 21, 2023 19:52
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Above said more than I could and pretty much expressed it more eloquently than I did. I am looking forward to the new Ma
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Jul 21, 2023 20:19
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Starbucks posted:Above said more than I could and pretty much expressed it more eloquently than I did. I am looking forward to the new Ma Yeah can't wait for the Barney movie
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Jul 21, 2023 20:26
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Starbucks posted:Above said more than I could and pretty much expressed it more eloquently than I did. I am looking forward to the new Ma Greta Gerwig's He-Man gonna be off the fuckin chain
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Jul 21, 2023 20:31
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This movie sounds like the Legally Blonde for the next generation. Which is just fine! There needs to be a middle point in today's cinema between jingle key superhero movies and R-rated drama!
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Jul 21, 2023 20:47
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Legally Blonde rules That’s probably the movie Reese should have her Oscar for
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Jul 21, 2023 20:50
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I've had Push by Matchbox Twenty stuck in my head all day. I think it's shattered my brain for a while as a result of laughing at that gag for a solid 2 minutes.
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Jul 21, 2023 21:58
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Space_Butler posted:I've had Push by Matchbox Twenty stuck in my head all day. I think it's shattered my brain for a while as a result of laughing at that gag for a solid 2 minutes. Growing up my dad had 3 CDs in his car that he would play non-stop, Drops of Jupiter by Train, a Dave Mathews band album, and the album with that loving song. I also laughed for several minutes at the gag while also being transported to being in his car in the early aughts. It was a perfect selection.
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Jul 21, 2023 22:34
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Saw it in a sold out NFT1 at the BFI Southbank, with what must be the rowdiest audience that theatre's ever had for a new release - there was applause at the start of the film, and plenty of "that's right!" about out moments, and a loud round of applause at America Ferrara's big speech near the end. Lots of people were dressed up as well, and coming out there were even more, and the biggest queue as the next screening was unallocated seating, and a long queue to pose with the Barbie box in the foyer. But while it was a load of fun, I could never quite get over the fact it is just a marketing exercise for Mattel, no matter how good the production design, acting, jokes, choreography and costumes were. It pulled its punches when it came to any real criticisms of the legacy of the image Brand Barbie has had on young children in America, and instead lays most of that at the door of the patriarchy - at least Will Ferrell wasn't just playing his Lego movie character again.
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Jul 21, 2023 22:41
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CelticPredator posted:It’s a social commentary comedy That’s not very good at that, while hiding behind “it doesn’t have to be and isn’t asking to be!”. This is basically a movie that online you have to say you like or you get attacked for. Gosling is great. The speech about how it’s impossible to be a woman I’ve heard fifteen different times spoken more earnestly on social media over the last dozen years, and Greta is too smart and good at what she does to not have me feel like it’s just cynical as gently caress. I went with a big group. Most of them loved it. I felt grossed out. I went in wanting to like it. I really did. And yet… it feels super Hetoronormative in a gross way. The jealousy beat felt like it would Have been outdated from a late 90’s movie. LionArcher fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Jul 22, 2023 |
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Jul 22, 2023 00:43
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Saw it this evening and had an absolute blast. Loved every minute of it with one exception but on the whole it was the best cinema experience I've had in a long long time. For starters that is the most packed I've seen a cinema in years. Avengers Endgame is the only thing I can think of which felt similar. So many people were dressed up, even before the movie it was so fun seeing all the fashion and just vibing (and yes I dressed up too it was awesome). As for the movie itself it was so fun. All the jokes landed and it was great to see Mattel being willing to take the piss out of themself to an extent which is still less than they deserve but still way more than you'd think. Margot Robbie was phenomenal, Ryan Gosling was superb and the Ken brings the patriarchy to Barbieland plotline was a huge swerve from how I expected the movie to go. No the level of representation isn't perfect but honestly it's still a step above the vast majority of Hollywood blockbusters. The soundtrack slams, in particular the moment with the Billie Eilish song landed so hard and I legit cried. And America Ferrara's big moment got a huge round of whoops and applause (I'm British, we NEVER do that here). 12/10 would watch again and probably will watch again cause one of my friend's couldn't make it. Anyway, the one exception: The Barbies dismantling the Kens by using their feminine wiles to play on their emotion was some pretty regressive bullshit instead of showing them how the patriarchy harms men too. Still loved the movie though. Maybe my favourite cinema experience ever???
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Jul 22, 2023 00:46
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LionArcher posted:The speech about how it’s impossible to be a woman I’ve heard fifteen different times spoken more earnestly on social media over the last dozen years Yes it's not a new message but there's still a difference between putting something in a meme that reaches a few thousand people on social media and putting it in a movie that's going to make a billion dollars which people will be watching for years
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Jul 22, 2023 00:49
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Rarity posted:Yes it's not a new message but there's still a difference between putting something in a meme that reaches a few thousand people on social media and putting it in a movie that's going to make a billion dollars which people will be watching for years No for sure. I think my frustration is that it felt regressive and non self reflective in its “sameness”. But I’m a very online person (trying to be less and less) so that’s as much on me.
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Jul 22, 2023 01:55
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For those who want the full contextual story of the creation of this movie, I think this piece in the New York Times Magazine has the biggest picture to date. It correctly lauds the movie for being genuinely awesome while getting into the nitty-gritty of how it fits into Mattel, Inc.'s (smart) strategy to stop being a toy company and, like Disney, start being an IP/Experiences company. (Disneyland is profitable. Disney+ is not.) Also Margot Robbie and her team deserve every penny for basically creating this film so she could kick rear end in it. Link through the paywall: quote:How does a company go from dispensing cease-and-desist letters to gamely lampooning itself?
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Jul 22, 2023 02:17
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ShoogaSlim posted:tho i suppose there might be some backlash around lack of trans inclusion? but i wouldn't expect mattel to touch on that subject (either that or im ignorant to any that is included) not patting myself on the back for being right about this take, but just resurfacing since it's coming up itt as more people start seeing it. and the topic of who this movie potentially "isn't for" what im about to quote is undoubtedly corporate PR approved inclusion speech, but Hari Nef said this about trans inclusion in the movie: https://www.them.us/story/hari-nef-barbie-trans-representation posted:“[I]t’s inevitable that you’ll get struck down by external messages and obstacles of what you’ll never be and what you won’t be able to do,” Nef told Out. “As much as there’s a celebration of femininity and being a girl in this [movie], I think there’s also an encouragement of letting go of the checklist we ascribe to living and living your life and being in your body your way, on your own terms [...] The best that we can do as women, as trans women, is be there for each other and take ourselves at face value, without relying on the green light from someone or anyone else.” im curious to anyone who wanted more out of it, or who found the lack of inclusion "gross".. what would have made it better? not asking in a "its your job to educate me" type way. answer or don't, its a discussion forum and im down to listen and learn. aside from the above, i legit can't get it out of my head when ken asks barbie who she's texting and screeches KEN in frustration. ryan gosling for best supporting actor.
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Jul 22, 2023 02:24
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Agreed, Gosling was phenomenal, he had so many odd little "Ken moves". Robbie is stereotypical Barbie. That was a fun movie. It definitely wasn't as "for kids" as I thought it'd be going in.
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Jul 22, 2023 07:43
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Disappointed in this one. Goes in the same bucket as the Knives Out movies for me in terms of "films that are entertaining enough comedies but get a ton of praise for being brilliant social satire when they're really, really not." Set design was great, as were the performances, and I think I even noticed Robbie's makeup job becoming less and less "perfect" as the film went on and she became more "human" but its battle of the sexes stuff just boils down to a bunch of annoying culture war poo poo and the central conflict is literally solved by "be sure to vote right so we can fill the Supreme Court with women." Nobody tell them about Amy Coney Barrett I guess. Would've loved to see the version of this film that had an Alexandre Desplat score instead of Mark Ronson with a promotional tie-in album.
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Jul 22, 2023 08:54
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Pirate Jet posted:the central conflict is literally solved by "be sure to vote right so we can fill the Supreme Court with women." Nobody tell them about Amy Coney Barrett I guess. I think it would be a mis-reading to think the situation in Barbie-land at the end of the movie is presented as just, or even good. Helen Mirren says something like, “someday the Kens may have as much power in Barbie-land as women have in the real world.” smug n stuff fucked around with this message at 13:40 on Jul 22, 2023 |
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Jul 22, 2023 13:37
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Movie was very fun to look at but around the halfway mark it starts doing the thing where characters verbalize all the jokes out loud as they're happening. Overall I had a good time but I think the pop feminism could've been a little less explicitly stated and it could've used a second pass on the edit. Final scene with Ruth seemed to go on forever.
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Jul 22, 2023 16:14
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Pirate Jet posted:Disappointed in this one. Goes in the same bucket as the Knives Out movies for me in terms of "films that are entertaining enough comedies but get a ton of praise for being brilliant social satire when they're really, really not." Set design was great, as were the performances, and I think I even noticed Robbie's makeup job becoming less and less "perfect" as the film went on and she became more "human" but its battle of the sexes stuff just boils down to a bunch of annoying culture war poo poo and the central conflict is literally solved by "be sure to vote right so we can fill the Supreme Court with women." Nobody tell them about Amy Coney Barrett I guess. It was a joke ending about institutional sexism with the shoe on the other foot, not an attempted political thesis
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Jul 22, 2023 19:36
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watchin barbu
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Jul 22, 2023 20:40
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:watchin barbu I look forward to your breakdown of it
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Jul 22, 2023 20:41
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Saw this quote from one of my favorite feminist writers Liz Plank (who’s book For The Love of Men is fantastic). She really liked the movie but this was her major criticism. Curious what people think And while I delighted in the movie’s embrace of the hyper-feminine, and that it made me reflect on how I can participate in our society’s sexist derogation of it, the overall feminist takeaway of the movie was deeply distorted. The biggest oversight in my opinion is that the matriarchal system that’s presented in the film is one that ultimately marginalizes men. It upholds a flawed view of feminism, one that is often circulated by its detractors, where the goal is assumed to be the subjugation of men. This bogus girlboss take on female empowerment is about women doing what men have done to them, but true feminism is actually about dismantling those power structures and hierarchies altogether. In a true feminist world, Ken wouldn’t be relegated to "doing beach” and women wouldn’t be burdened with every single job! The feminist fantasy in the Barbie movie is a patriarchy that’s simply flipped. The movie suggests that in order for one gender to win, the other one has to lose, which is a myth created by the patriarchy. I worry the movie may be popularizing a dangerously distorted version of feminism that puts men down, when true feminism doesn’t put men in subservient roles— it sets them free. To be fair, towards the end of the movie, Barbie offers something closer to this vision of freedom when she apologizes to Ken for treating him as lesser (individually, not to Kens as a group) and suggests that he define his own identity without her, leading him to later sport a hilarious hoodie that reads “I am Kenough.” The path Ken is encouraged to go on is akin to the conversation that many of us have been prompting men to have about reimagining their own masculinity, and is what I was attempting to create with For The Love of Men. But this interaction stands in sharp contradiction with the entire premise and philosophy of the movie. This moment of compassion towards men is interrupted when one of the Kens asks if this means men can be on the Supreme Court now, and he’s told he could pursue a smaller lower court role. This suggests that the goal is not to win with men, but to get even with them. This vengeful definition of feminism is certainly enticing given how violently the cards are stacked against women, but I fear it simply gives more ammunition to those who want to discredit gender equality altogether. The movie offers false proof that feminism impairs men, when in fact no other social policy would collectively benefit them more. My concern is that it reinforces the concept of the gender war, which isn’t feminist at all, and is just inherently another product of the patriarchy.
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Jul 22, 2023 21:12
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I, Butthole posted:Yeah but as the film points out the basics of feminism are just absolutely loving undermined and need to be restated plainly and loudly a big part of that is accepting women come in so many forms beyond the feminity presented in the movie, with that now firmly in our minds, we can now understand why that'd be a put off for women, cis or trans, who don't present anything like that
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Jul 22, 2023 21:24
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Yeah that's a very fair reading and vibes with my one real issue with the movie
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Jul 22, 2023 21:25
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theblackw0lf posted:Saw this quote from one of my favorite feminist writers Liz Plank (who’s book For The Love of Men is fantastic). She really liked the movie but this was her major criticism. Curious what people think I think this is absolutely a valid critique. Just how valid one considers it, though, is likely going to depend on just how satirical you think Gerwig and the film’s point of view is. Take the example Plank gives of the Kens being told they could pursue a lower court role. In the movie, that’s followed by the line (paraphrasing) that the Kens will someday be as equal in Barbieland as women are in the real world. Wink wink. I thought that joke in particular highlights that the film’s viewpoint is less interested in saying, “In our feminist fantasy, misandry rather than misogyny is the order of the day, bwahaha” and more “Turnabout is fair play, if you’re mad about a power imbalance when it’s applied to men, then fight against it when it’s applied to women too.” Basically, I thought Barbieland was less a misandrist power fantasy and more a Rawlsian example that’s meant to point out that misandry is bad. You’re supposed to sympathize with poor Ken! (We never do find out where they go at night!!  )Barbieland is also repeatedly portrayed as a childish, absurdist Truman Show-like fantasy where nothing human exists (the only way Barbie The Ideal Woman even could exist), rather than something to aspire to for the Real World. If you believe the film is at least partially satirizing Barbieland itself, it’s easier to not think it’s playing its misandry too straight that it’s suggesting Barbieland is actually feminism’s end-goal. That said…it might have been nice to have a somewhat more fleshed out fate for the Kens as a whole, and someone should definitely ask Gerwig why she didn’t take a different path for the Kens and men in general in Barbieland. But I liked the kind of dark note it ended on for them, rather than an even *more* puppies and rainbows, Barbieland-Where-The-Genders-Are-Equal-At-Last ending. At the end of the day, Ken is never not going to be a purely superfluous part of Barbie’s existence. The Barbies’ anti-Ken tone isn’t going away overnight, and neither is misogyny IRL. That’s exactly why both Ken and Barbie need to find their own existence and meaning in the first place. 
Combed Thunderclap fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Jul 22, 2023 |
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Jul 22, 2023 21:37
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I won't read the spoilers, but I assume the movie ends with Margot Robbie realizing that a world where men and woman are "equal" is meaningless without true egalitarianism and will merely reproduce the contradictions of capital? And she liberates a Mattel sweatshop?
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Jul 22, 2023 21:57
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I haven't seen the movie, but I think we can safely assume that this is exactly what happens.
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Jul 22, 2023 21:59
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I think it’s fairly obvious that the film doesn’t endorse Barbie-land’s matriarchy. The distress it engenders in Ken is the whole reason for the film’s main conflict! Barbie fairly obviously barely believes her ending monologue to Ken—it’s a main reason she wants to leave to become human!
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Jul 22, 2023 21:59
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Liked the movie a lot, didn't love it. Fantastic production design and costumes (this has to be the Oscar frontrunner for those categories, right?), a mostly great cast, and comedy that has a relatively high hit-to-miss ratio (Gosling's third-act musical number is a highlight). The script as a whole leaves something to be desired, with pretty large plot holes and somewhat muddled worldbuilding, and the feminist satire can be overly didactic (particularly in a couple key monologues Ferrera and Greenblatt get as the human leads), while also clearly being reined in by the limits of what Mattel would allow in a movie based on one of its most iconic toys. Still, it’s genuinely impressive to see Gerwig and Baumbach get a bona fide creative vision through one of these big IP-based movies, with tons of “how did they get away with this?” moments (that final line!). fwiw I think someone who worked on this movie must have been at my screening in NYC; a group of people cheered really loudly when part of the crew (makeup?) came up in the credits. That's sweet.
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Jul 22, 2023 22:24
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theblackw0lf posted:Saw this quote from one of my favorite feminist writers Liz Plank (who’s book For The Love of Men is fantastic). She really liked the movie but this was her major criticism. Curious what people think I spent a lot of the movie a little concerned that it was going to go for the whole flipped patriarchy angle, which, yeah, is damaging for the reasons you quote. I started to appreciate it more when the Ken's started fighting each other and subsequently are encouraged to define themselves outside of their relationships and achievements as it started to play with how the patriarchy harms men too. And I felt a bit self-concious for hoping that Barbie movie would examine how the patriarchy harms men, but I think it would have been a weaker film if it didn't. I didn't think too much of the Supreme Court gag, because I think it was just an ironic gag based on the viewers knowledge of the real-world; I don't think that Barbie was being vindictive or insincere.
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Jul 23, 2023 00:49
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Disco Pope posted:I spent a lot of the movie a little concerned that it was going to go for the whole flipped patriarchy angle, which, yeah, is damaging for the reasons you quote. I started to appreciate it more when the Ken's started fighting each other and subsequently are encouraged to define themselves outside of their relationships and achievements as it started to play with how the patriarchy harms men too. It was also smart and funny that when Ken discovers patriarchy his kind of dumb assumption is that it means he has to do literally nothing to get whatever job or status he wants, not that he just has huge advantages. So even other men in the real world are telling him that he can't just stroll around being a loser and expect to run things, even the men who benefit have to have some semblance of qualifications or skillset. So he retreats to Barbieland where he kind of can act out his laziest, most entitled version of patriarchy just by the magical nature of Barbieland manifesting items they think of. It is a funny bit, and also it is a more nuanced point than just "Ken/Men drool"
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Jul 23, 2023 02:48
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