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it could have been a deep satirical take on the world..... or it could have been a mediocre movie by a gen xer about gen xer feminism. pretty sure the null hypothesis holds
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Sep 29, 2023 05:03
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Simply Simon posted:I'd never heard Push before but it sounded so incredibly generic that I thought they'd just made up a song with nonsense lyrics and a few guitar strums for the movie I'm astounded that you didn't at least hear it in a bar at some point. It was a song I heard everywhere for a bit.
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Sep 29, 2023 08:20
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DicktheCat posted:I'm astounded that you didn't at least hear it in a bar at some point. It was a song I heard everywhere for a bit.
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Sep 29, 2023 09:23
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It's definitely one of those songs I know I've heard a million times and never made out any of the lyrics or remembered anything about it.
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Sep 29, 2023 10:48
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Matchbox 20 kinda hit it late 90's/early 2000's MTV Total Request Live era as rock was swinging back to more corporate stuff. I was already in college at that point so I missed that. If this was the type of music Greta Gerwig grew up with I just realized she's younger than me. 
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Sep 29, 2023 12:54
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Android Apocalypse posted:Matchbox 20 kinda hit it late 90's/early 2000's MTV Total Request Live era as rock was swinging back to more corporate stuff. I was already in college at that point so I missed that. That was the end of my college, but we were still watching MTV then, maybe more so, just because 18-22 or sonisnwhen you're starting to be more social and accepting more pop music and you watched because that's how you got new music back then. Xers were still.going out to clubs amd bars with dancing and Top 40 music, so lots was just prepping for that because that's how we met each other. It's Mills that killed that.
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Sep 29, 2023 23:25
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roomtone posted:Finally watched this. Overall I enjoyed it but I was getting whiplash from moment to moment on having a great time and being so bored. I was bored when Barbie was onscreen but I liked the Ken bits. Also, I've never heard a woman say exactly the things said in this movie about patriarchy, so the point is moot, even though the movie was written and directed by a woman. Anyway, patriarchy doesn't exist anymore. What the gently caress. Edit: Denying that this is the experience so many women face is certainly.. a privilege. Unfortunately I guess the message of this movie is lost on the people who need to hear it the most. "things have improved to the extent that most of the patriarchy criticism isn't relevant anymore except possibly in the circles of CEOs which again, rarefied."? Oh? Is that what you have personally experienced? stratdax fucked around with this message at 07:17 on Oct 19, 2023 |
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Oct 19, 2023 06:33
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I liked all the movie refs. thank you Greta
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Oct 20, 2023 03:07
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stratdax posted:I was bored when Barbie was onscreen but I liked the Ken bits. Also, I've never heard a woman say exactly the things said in this movie about patriarchy, so the point is moot, even though the movie was written and directed by a woman. Anyway, patriarchy doesn't exist anymore. I never said I was bored when Barbie was onscreen. That happens a lot when people respond to something with clear battle lines, things get made up. I pretty much stand by the post otherwise. There are bits of social observation that I liked, ie how Barbie noticed men objectifying her in a vaguely threatening way the second she stepped into the real world. That was brief, funny and astute. On the other hand, Greta Gerwig can personally feel all the things that were in America Ferrera's big speech are true and it can still be a total dud as entertainment and an exageration as a social statement. They also chose to make Ken the funniest character and give him the big musical number rather than Barbie. Not my fault. roomtone fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Nov 4, 2023 |
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Nov 4, 2023 00:34
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To be fair it's been a fairly common criticism of the movie that Ken gets to have most of the laughs and arguably a clearer arc as a character than Barbie does while Robbie gets most of the emotional heavy lifting instead.
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Nov 5, 2023 14:40
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That's a pretty common thing in movies though, particularly comedies with bits of drama/seriousness. If theirs a main protagonist with an arc they just ends a bit less funny than side characters as the side character get to be a bit more out their, and aren't saddled with the "slower moment" stuff. Fortunately the movie didn't go the real bad path of just having the main character being a boring straight person for all the comedy lines, played by a super boring actor -cough cough Jason Biggs looking at you here- and Margot Robbie still got masses of great comedy that she nailed effortlessly.
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Nov 11, 2023 08:18
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You're not laughing? Jason Biggs humped a pie for your amusement, and you're not laughing?
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Nov 11, 2023 08:20
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Do you not understand what a comic relief character is? Though to be fair it'd be hard to blame anyone these days.
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Nov 11, 2023 08:43
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dr_rat posted:That's a pretty common thing in movies though, particularly comedies with bits of drama/seriousness. If theirs a main protagonist with an arc they just ends a bit less funny than side characters as the side character get to be a bit more out their, and aren't saddled with the "slower moment" stuff. Pretty sure all the Barbies were straight op. Frankly it disgusted me
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Nov 11, 2023 09:35
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I've never minded comedies that are not laugh-out-loud funny as long as it's for the right reasons, even if some of the jokes fall flat I can appreciate the story for engaging with the themes in a meaningful way, and having the confidence to do so. Barbie was not one of those movies, it was funny throughout (I'm not saying it's not engaging with it's themes, it does both very well), but it's why I appreciate movies like the first Croods, because it tried to go somewhere and follow through. The second was funnier, but I respect the first one too.
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Nov 11, 2023 09:44
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BioEnchanted posted:I've never minded comedies that are not laugh-out-loud funny as long as it's for the right reasons, even if some of the jokes fall flat I can appreciate the story for engaging with the themes in a meaningful way, and having the confidence to do so. Barbie was not one of those movies, it was funny throughout (I'm not saying it's not engaging with it's themes, it does both very well), but it's why I appreciate movies like the first Croods, because it tried to go somewhere and follow through. The second was funnier, but I respect the first one too. Oh yeah, a bad serious comedy is one in act where it just sort of stops for a bit and it feels like there's just a large boring chunk of the movie written by a different writer, and it just all feels really unearned. Barbie was written good, and having strong themes throughout made it better. tokin opposition posted:Pretty sure all the Barbies were straight op. Frankly it disgusted me Oh I read that back and yeah I wrote that sentence like crap. I think you did get my meaning and were just playing off my garbage writing, but just in case to clarify I was talking about the comedy straight person, not the preference straight person. But Barbie could of used more gay, yes.
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Nov 11, 2023 10:21
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If anything Barbie is very much about the straights and how they are not okay.
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Nov 11, 2023 10:50
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Finally saw this. My two favorite parts were the moment at the bus stop and when Ken got to go down the Barbie slide. Also found it pretty funny that Gloria’s husband either just started learning Spanish after being married for over a decade, or has been trying to learn Spanish for over a decade.
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Dec 29, 2023 01:01
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Actually do get the vibe that Stereotypical Barbie is gay or maybe ace given the plot point that she simply isn't attracted to or particularly interested in Ken, any Ken, despite at least a number of the other Barbies clearly having some interest in them.
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Dec 29, 2023 02:42
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tokin opposition posted:Pretty sure all the Barbies were straight op. Frankly it disgusted me No role that Kate McKinnon has ever played is straight.
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Dec 29, 2023 05:19
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Arsenic Lupin posted:No role that Kate McKinnon has ever played is straight. Some of the characters she played on SNL were straight. Usually some sort of monster trying to seduce whoever was the host that week.
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Dec 29, 2023 08:03
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Finally got around to this. It's decent fun, but definitely pretty tepid in terms of it's critique, as has been gone over. Not quite weird or bold enough for me to say it's truly good, in fact it's pretty pathetic that it's less biting than the 30 something years old Malibu Stacy episode. I was relieved to how short the "real world" segment was, but still felt like there wasn't enough time spent in barbieland. My partner loved it and is now willing to acknowledge how great Ryan BabyGoose is, which has previously been a major point of contention in our relationship, So thank you Barbie (movie)!
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Dec 30, 2023 09:43
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https://twitter.com/willw/status/1751396181232742747?t=0FoFHv91mX5Mlmyrc4_4wA&s=19
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Jan 28, 2024 20:56
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... What am I missing?
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Jan 28, 2024 21:27
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the terf toy commercial is also a car commercial
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Jan 28, 2024 21:40
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Presto posted:... What am I missing? The Transformers cameo
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Jan 29, 2024 00:36
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:https://twitter.com/willw/status/1751396181232742747?t=0FoFHv91mX5Mlmyrc4_4wA&s=19 this probably allowed for the practical sets instead of using the stupid volume or green screen. worth it if so
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Jan 29, 2024 01:28
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Any dumb thing that happens in the real world in the movie that allows for something in Barbie land is fine.
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Jan 29, 2024 01:40
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Corridor Crew just talked about this. They used a stunt car so they could put the exact car they were trying to sell in the movie.
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Jan 29, 2024 01:46
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A movie about a toy line selling something? Now I've heard everything!
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Jan 29, 2024 09:02
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It was kinda funny reading a bit in an old thread years ago about how boy-dominated the nostalgia waves had been and how few girl franchise movies there'd been, much less successful ones.Cojawfee posted:Any dumb thing that happens in the real world in the movie that allows for something in Barbie land is fine. The real world being shown as especially mundane compared to the wild pop of Barbieland was a pretty clearly deliberate effect, especially with Mattel being the in-between state. It's good visual storytelling.
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Jan 29, 2024 09:54
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Man, this film was weird as a nonbinary person that had a whole lot of Barbies foisted upon me. I never begrudged Barbie, to be clear, because I never related to Barbie the way I think the film expects. Barbie was simply a doll I was given, but since she didn't fit in my doll house, she always went to "college," where my baby brain assumed people were doing important things unrelated to the soap opera I was unraveling. There was a teenage phase much like the tween in the film where I wanted nothing to do with Barbie, and if anything the film seems to be trying to address that specific mindset. The problem is that the teenage opinion of Barbie is kind of silly and lacks nuance, because teenagers are silly and lack nuance, and when the film tries to pivot to "actually we care about women who grew up with Barbie" it feels... insincere? Contrived? On the nose? I don't know what it feels but for me personally it was not a relatable shift. If anything, the attempts to acknowledge critics made it more weird. "Barbie has unrealistic beauty standards" is literally lampshaded by the narrator mentioning Margot Robbie was the wrong person to cast if you wanted someone to ugly-cry. I get it. I understand. This is as close as you could come so you're drawing attention to it. But that's how a lot of the film feels. Like I'm being booped on the nose by subtext and text just to make sure I understand. And I do. But it isn't new. I know I am supposed to be assertive yet nonthreatening. Inspirational yet not needy. I have attempted this my entire life. In a weird way, it feels like a power fantasy for cis women and a morality play for cis men, and anyone outside of that gets to be perhaps confused and unsatisfied. It's not unreasonable, it's not revolutionary, it's not unexpected, it just is. It's cute, I'll give it that. If you want a "I see what you did there" film this is probably it. But I will say if you're trans or nonbinary it will most likely not just be not revolutionary, but actively weird. Actual real life end of film spoiler, which may not actually matter to non-trans people? It ends on Barbie asking for gynecological care. I understand WHY it happens -- gynecology is weirdly stigmatized and this is an attempt to alleviate that. But heck if you're trans it's weird. Barbie is kind of presented as this epitome of Womanhood, with all it's complications and tribulations. And I'm not upset by that, I understand why that's what they want to do. But a film that actively tells people mid-film Barbie does NOT have a vagina switching to her needing medical care for a vagina is weird and specific in a way I did not expect. I'm not upset by vaginas. I have one. But the specific combination of "Barbie is complicated Womanhood" "genitals are not Barbie" and "Barbie now has specific genitals" was real weird.
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Feb 12, 2024 11:34
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Watching cis people trying to limbo out of the fact that barbie becoming a Real Girl involves going to the gynecologist has been really funny as a trans woman Not "haha" funny, more "wow this is what they're actually like" funny
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Feb 12, 2024 18:27
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What does that mean? What are people limboing out of? She becomes a real person and gets genitals for the first time in her life.
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Feb 12, 2024 18:59
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Cojawfee posted:What does that mean? What are people limboing out of? She becomes a real person and gets genitals for the first time in her life. A pretty common TERF talking point is that womanhood is inextricable from the anatomical reality of having a vagina and uterus. That menstruation and pregnancy and motherhood are defining material realities that a trans woman can’t experience, making them invalid. Greta Gerwig doesn’t have these politics and the movie mostly lands on liberal inclusivity as a social good, so it’s slightly uncomfortable to close out the film with the suggestion that Barbie’s induction into “real” femininity comes with a Pap test. I don’t think the film is transphobic, I just think it’s a film made by a white cis woman that isn’t interested in these questions beyond purely facile “representation.” There is a trans Barbie, but she was never important.
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Feb 12, 2024 20:38
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Cojawfee posted:What does that mean? What are people limboing out of? She becomes a real person and gets genitals for the first time in her life. gender essentialism is a radical position unsupported by science and the film casually takes as a given in the last few moments that , as you say, "becomes a real person" and "gets genitals" are treated as the same thing, undermining many of the themes of the film. it's a good movie and I liked it, but that poo poo was weird.
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Feb 12, 2024 21:52
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It doesn’t help that the majority of the humor in the middle of the movie was all about “boys like these things but girls like these things.”
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Feb 12, 2024 22:10
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Xealot posted:I don’t think the film is transphobic, I just think it’s a film made by a white cis woman that isn’t interested in these questions beyond purely facile “representation.” There is a trans Barbie, but she was never important. I agree generally but a key point is that there isn't even a Trans Barbie. There's a trans woman playing a Barbie, but that fact is purely extratextual. Within the movie she is simply a Barbie (well, Doctor Barbie). There's not even a character who's textually queer, and the one you're supposed to read as gay-coded is literally named Weird Barbie. So we're left with a movie that tries to take on a vague aura of progressive support for LGBTQ issues but is textually about how barbie becomes a Real Woman, signified by her going to the gynecologist, and in which anyone who deviates even lightly from cis hetero norms (earring magic ken, weird barbie, Allan) ends the movie in barbieland, a place for people who are explicitly not real. The movie is so deeply devoted to normative approaches to gender it has to give America Ferrara a henpecked lib husband who appears in a cutaway gag, lest we read the slightest bit of anything at all into her interactions with Margot Robbie. It's just a profoundly stupid movie in certain ways, in the sense that it tries to tell you it is doing one thing even as it is obviously if accidentally doing something else. e: which is almost certainly because the film is fundamentally an act of selling out, so any time the script stumbles up against any interesting concepts it has to rapidly back away while proclaiming a belief in the liberatory power of Barbie. double e: also very hard to take the gynecologist thing as a light "oh she's excited to do something generally considered onerous!" gag when it comes on the heels of a movie that spends so much of its runtime on how real and important and valuable motherhood is and which in the final conversation between barbie and Ruth makes the whole thing explicitly about a Daughter who is Growing Up and Going Out Into The World and implicitly could have a daughter of her own some day and wow won't she really get how complex it all is then. Valentin fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Feb 12, 2024 |
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Feb 12, 2024 22:12
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Pirate Jet posted:It doesn’t help that the majority of the humor in the middle of the movie was all about “boys like these things but girls like these things.” I felt like the pretty clear joke is that the Barbies and Kens are not human boys and girls, and Ken becomes a childish caricature of masculinity (especially given how much stuff just manifests in Barbieland) ironically with a horse obsession more suited for a stereotypical little girl. One step away from a brony joke there, if only MLP wasn't a competing toy brand. He outright says he lost interest when he figured out patriarchy doesn't actually have anything to do with horses. See also how the Barbies emphasise they've cleaned up every trace of Ken-land but clearly left a bunch of the Kens' additions there, even kept the Hummer just with a pink paint job, suggesting their tastes aren't actually that different or irreconcilable.
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Feb 13, 2024 00:42
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Valentin posted:also very hard to take the gynecologist thing as a light "oh she's excited to do something generally considered onerous!" gag when it comes on the heels of a movie that spends so much of its runtime on how real and important and valuable motherhood is and which in the final conversation between barbie and Ruth makes the whole thing explicitly about a Daughter who is Growing Up and Going Out Into The World and implicitly could have a daughter of her own some day and wow won't she really get how complex it all is then. Yeah, which makes sense from the writer/director of Lady Bird. This movie felt like a bunch of Greta Gerwig's thoughts on childhood and the ways young girls learn what womanhood is or should be, which for her clearly intersected her relationship with her mother, how women inherit notions of the feminine from other women, etc. It's very cis because she is cis. Which, again, I don't think is wrong or was done to be exclusionary of trans women or anyone else, it's just the story she wanted to tell. And it works, that story. But it's frustrating, because she clearly saw how particular and not-universal much of it was as she developed it but couldn't let that change anything about the structure or message. Hence all these little lampshaded moments, tons of diversity-as-set-dressing, a bunch of one-off comments or jokes that call attention to the extreme normativity without challenging it. It's a big, loud movie intended for everyone, and feels progressive by default because it has a veneer of progressivism, but has very little to say about anyone else's experience than the white cishet lead. It's a good and successful movie. But imagining the version of Barbie where Hari Nef or Issa Rae wind up in "the real world" sounds super goddamn interesting.
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Feb 13, 2024 00:52
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