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Yeah maybe "trolling" is the wrong word versus like, engagement-bait. Especially when it was Twitter so the way to do it is to just drop big hot takes that make as many people mad as possible.
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Aug 17, 2023 17:06
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Mario is a working plumber yet he rescues a princess, collects coins and literally stomps on his comrades I am very smart
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Aug 17, 2023 17:11
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The amount of content in her videos that is easily counter-exampled by anyone who's the life-long gamer she claimed to be set up three likely and not necessarily mutually-exclusive scenarios in my mind: 1. She's no video game fan and was largely ignorant of the topic in which she billed herself as an expert. 2. She simply didn't give a gently caress and half-assed everything to get it out the door. 3. She was deliberately misrepresenting the content to inflate her premise, knowing a more accurate portrayal would weaken the argument. Then, thanks to the well-poisoning caused by nerds losing their poo poo about their holy hobby being besmirched, followed by media losing their poo poo about the nerds losing their poo poo, we now have this weird public belief that there are legions of turbo-autist basement-dwellers who will have a Chris-chan freakout if anyone dares to put out a game with a woman in it who isn't a fuckdoll, that utter rear end in a top hat gamers are, if not the majority, a large percentage rather than the small portion they actually represent. We've seen echoes of that in that boogeyman being pulled out by Sony trying to defend the Ghostbusters reboot tanking and the Bully Hunters debacle; whenever there's a cynical ploy to make bank off of women, the ever-dreaded Misogynerd is conveniently on the scene to point at with a big dose of, "You sure don't want those mean nerds to win, better stick it to them by buying our corporate product!" Our society as a whole is worse off as an indirect result of the stupidity that arose around these videos, and they aren't even good videos.
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Aug 17, 2023 17:17
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i dont think the videos are responsible for that at all. the shifts in culture which unfortunately led to identity being conflated with marketing demographics was far beyond someone saying they didn't like Princess Peach as a character
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Aug 17, 2023 17:19
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Yeah, McIntosh. He really didn't help Anita by adding his antiviolence rhetoric to her videos. It combined with the facts she got wrong to make absurd points. I think one was about a Hitman game allowing the player to kill a room of prostitutes putting on makeup or something. There was a clip of this happening I think to illustrate. That got a lot of pissed off responses because you are not incentivized to do that by the games scoring mechanics and what the tutorial has taught the player.
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Aug 17, 2023 17:25
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Feels Villeneuve posted:i dont think the videos are responsible for that at all. the shifts in culture which unfortunately led to identity being conflated with marketing demographics was far beyond someone saying they didn't like Princess Peach as a character yeah, in nerd spaces especially you had the really cool combo of nerds still seeing themselves as the oppressed underdog, calling back to like the origins of the term in popular use in the 80s and 90s, while simultaneously things like superhero movies, anime, videogames, rick and morty, etc etc were becoming just actual mainstream culture. something like gamergate was essentially bound to happen. people were being told they were the spunky underdogs while also the mcu was spinning up to be one of the largest media juggernauts of all time. that combo meant it was gonna be even easier than usual to spin yourself up about bullshit cultural destruction thats completely fabricated. that it happened to specifically the people it did is mostly happenstance.
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Aug 17, 2023 17:28
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Bass.exe posted:Yeah, McIntosh. He really didn't help Anita by adding his antiviolence rhetoric to her videos. It combined with the facts she got wrong to make absurd points. I think one was about a Hitman game allowing the player to kill a room of prostitutes putting on makeup or something. There was a clip of this happening I think to illustrate. That got a lot of pissed off responses because you are not incentivized to do that by the games scoring mechanics and what the tutorial has taught the player. but it's also a poo poo game anyway. a AAA disaster where disguises didn't work right and most of the level design was extremely limited in its sandbox nature, if not entirely guided at times. the only good level was the one where you could drop a giant whale model on a person from the ceiling Kagaya Homoraisan posted:yeah, in nerd spaces especially you had the really cool combo of nerds still seeing themselves as the oppressed underdog, calling back to like the origins of the term in popular use in the 80s and 90s, while simultaneously things like superhero movies, anime, videogames, rick and morty, etc etc were becoming just actual mainstream culture. something like gamergate was essentially bound to happen. people were being told they were the spunky underdogs while also the mcu was spinning up to be one of the largest media juggernauts of all time. that combo meant it was gonna be even easier than usual to spin yourself up about bullshit cultural destruction thats completely fabricated. that it happened to specifically the people it did is mostly happenstance. games forum tried to have threads about minority perspectives and feminism in the 2010s, and they were each perpetually flooded with two types of assholes, those who took everything as a personal attack, and concern trolls, so the threads kept getting closed The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Aug 17, 2023 |
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Aug 17, 2023 17:33
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The 7th Guest posted:i believe the thing people were upset about was (going off memory) you could use a sex worker's corpse as a distraction by dumping it off a railing or a rafter or something like that?? and when I played Hitman Absolution that was indeed the intended design... but I played it like, IDK, 2015 or 2016? It was a long time ago, so i forget the specific context other than that it was an intended solution. there are people who acted like it wasn't in the game and she was lying, but it was. sex workers very much are treated like disposable by society at large, but the thing about Hitman Absolution is that it has plenty of misogyny to go around, I remember being 3/4ths of the way through the game and being like "wow this game hates women like a lot" You're thinking of this part. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZPSrwedvsg&t=1053s
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Aug 17, 2023 18:11
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The 7th Guest posted:also the weird belief that nerd spaces were inherently male and that Fake Geek women were "invading" it
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Aug 17, 2023 18:18
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Endorph posted:its also weird to look back on because her vids were like, this massive tideshift that everyone was talking about and dominated discourse, and all but one of them barely hit 1 million views, with a lot of the 'big' videos being in the 500k-700k range. i understand that youtube was smaller back then but those are numbers like a 100k subs video game essay guy gets these days, not this dominant force in the conversation. I suspect that this is because it was sort of a prototype of the clickbait/culture war "news" media we now find ourselves with an overabundance of; I reckon she was picked up hard by the gaming media at the time to try and drag in rage clicks of the same kind Jack Thompson did. Only they kind of went in differently this time because from what I remember of the coverage of JT the games media at the time were, like, openly hoping he died of a heart attack when it came out he had cardiac issues. There were definitely Beat Up Jack Thompson flash games circulating too; hell I remember there being a contest or something for them. Anyway off the back of that and the way they act generally to this day, I'm less inclined to believe that the game journos picked up the topic for any real altruistic reason. Valatar posted:The amount of content in her videos that is easily counter-exampled by anyone who's the life-long gamer she claimed to be set up three likely and not necessarily mutually-exclusive scenarios in my mind: I tend to believe that all of these three are true to some degree. My memory of that time is very very hazy (it's not the best at the best of times tbh) but iirc someone unearthed videos of her giving a talk and admitting that she had to learn a whole lot about videogames for her project because she'd never had an interest. That combined with accusations that she was an MLM recruiter in the past and instances of her taking artwork and video footage without permission or attributing them (and I don't believe ever addressing this...) lead me to believe that she's just... kind of not a very nice person, and a bit shady to boot. It's incredibly sad that this was the best champion that could be found to bring this topic to people. Or maybe not best, just... the first one that bothered? I also think that the presentation was unnecessarily hostile in places; as others have mentioned she herself seems to be very sex-negative, and with her partner being anti-violence as said, combined they sort of managed to come off as the Junior Anti-Fun League. The popularity of rambling video essays on Youtube leads me to believe that games nerds are perfectly willing to sit down and listen to hours of theory and interpretation about the things they love, just... maybe don't insinuate that they're terrible people for liking what they like? Even if there are some genuinely loving terrible people in their crowd.
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Aug 17, 2023 18:20
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:A bit off topic but do the posters in this thread have any suggestions/pointers/recommendations for good feminist writers/creators in the same niche? I'm also curious about this. I think there's only so much this thread can cover, going in circles around the general notion of "gamergate super sucked, but Sarkeesian also kinda sucked in her own way." But I'm very curious who we have, all of these years later, that we can hold up as a better example of someone doing game analysis through this lens.
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Aug 17, 2023 18:48
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The 7th Guest posted:i believe the thing people were upset about was (going off memory) you could use a sex worker's corpse as a distraction by dumping it off a railing or a rafter or something like that?? and when I played Hitman Absolution that was indeed the intended design... but I played it like, IDK, 2015 or 2016? It was a long time ago, so i forget the specific context other than that it was an intended solution. there are people who acted like it wasn't in the game and she was lying, but it was. sex workers very much are treated like disposable by society at large, but the thing about Hitman Absolution is that it has plenty of misogyny to go around, I remember being 3/4ths of the way through the game and being like "wow this game hates women like a lot" It was her saying that in Hitman it was intended gameplay for a player to murder the women and derive pleasure from toying with their corpses. When in fact it was a game about murdering basically everyone and did not treat killing a random woman any differently from killing a random man. IIRC there was another clip from that one with, I think it was Saints Row? Where the player is at a bar and shoots a dancing woman, which she presented as more proof about games being out to promote violence against women, conveniently omitting the male dancer ten feet away who was just as killable, because as anyone who actually played those open world crime games knows, you can up and shoot literally anyone. Which is why I think she either never actually played those games to know that fact, or knew it and omitted the fact on purpose to serve her narrative.
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Aug 17, 2023 19:14
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King of Bleh posted:I'm also curious about this. I think there's only so much this thread can cover, going in circles around the general notion of "gamergate super sucked, but Sarkeesian also kinda sucked in her own way." But I'm very curious who we have, all of these years later, that we can hold up as a better example of someone doing game analysis through this lens.
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Aug 17, 2023 19:17
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Every other Hitman game is very silly and ridiculous if you look past the veneer and pay attention to the details of anything, like, say, reading the newspaper articles for anyone other than Agent 47. Absolution specifically has bad vibes and it makes stuff like the violence toward women come off as much groddier.
mycot fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Aug 17, 2023 |
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Aug 17, 2023 19:19
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in fairness, if this was about absolution, that game absolutely was ridiculously "provocative" in a way that was really, really juvenile at best
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Aug 17, 2023 19:21
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King of Bleh posted:I'm also curious about this. I think there's only so much this thread can cover, going in circles around the general notion of "gamergate super sucked, but Sarkeesian also kinda sucked in her own way." But I'm very curious who we have, all of these years later, that we can hold up as a better example of someone doing game analysis through this lens. quote:isn’t it funny how both healing and being emotionally driven only become subservient disempowering traits when girls do them? https://timberowlscom.wordpress.com/2019/05/08/interview-one-night-hot-springs-developer-kc/ theres also this interview with a trans jp indie dev which i really like quote:I think it’s… unfair isn’t the right word, but online, the rhetoric is often very dominated by American citizens. People from the U.S. dictate whether something is ‘good rep’ or something is ‘bad rep,’ if something is ‘problematic’ or not. in general, i think you arent going to find like, a definitive source on 'examining gaming (as a whole) through that lens' because its so broad a topic, and i think part of sarkeesian's failing is that framing.
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Aug 17, 2023 19:32
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Valatar posted:1. She's no video game fan and was largely ignorant of the topic in which she billed herself as an expert. I'm almost positive that there's a video of her from college in some class she was giving a presentation in where she says she doesn't like video games and has never played them. It seemed to worm its way around twitter. Of course, the issue is that this kind of credentials-check is used 95% on women and almost never on men (other than let's say Dean Takahashi unable to complete the tutorial of Cuphead). I mean, people went off on a GameSpot reviewer because she admitted she didn't do the "gigs" content of Cyperpunk and she's one of the only reviewers that gave a "ok" review (not even a bad review, it was like 7/10). And you had The Quartering and all these mouth breathers just going after her AND doubling down on going after her for being fake even after people's opinion of Cyberpunk tanked post launch even though she was one of the only reviewers that was actually accurate about the drat game in her review. The gigs content was gargage, it wasn't worth doing. That review got extra scrutiny though, because the reviewer is a woman. The same goes with this stuff. Yeah FF was pretty mild, it never really went further and when it did it was tired recycled takes in the vein of Jack Thompson (this is why I brought it up earlier in the thread, sorry). The overall arc for FF should have been some videos, people watched them and went "huh" and then she disappeared. And at some level that's kind of what happened but it was definitely extended and signal boosted by people flipping the gently caress out. And said flipping the gently caress is likely why there hasn't been a similar series that actually expands and has more meaningful views, because who the gently caress would willingly subject themselves to that?
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Aug 17, 2023 19:50
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there are definitely people on youtube talking about this stuff, they just arent labelled The Feminist Take
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Aug 17, 2023 19:54
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Endorph posted:there are definitely people on youtube talking about this stuff, they just arent labelled The Feminist Take They might be easier to find if they were, honestly. God knows you can stumble across 400 different accounts called poo poo like "Enlightened Primal Male" with 2,000 4 hour videos of them filling a diaper over things like "the second assistant to the translation team's payroll department ruined their game" because she was the only woman they could find to blame.
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Aug 17, 2023 20:05
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i dont find many guys like that actually
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Aug 17, 2023 20:06
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MarquiseMindfang posted:I also think that the presentation was unnecessarily hostile in places; as others have mentioned she herself seems to be very sex-negative, and with her partner being anti-violence as said, combined they sort of managed to come off as the Junior Anti-Fun League. The popularity of rambling video essays on Youtube leads me to believe that games nerds are perfectly willing to sit down and listen to hours of theory and interpretation about the things they love, just... maybe don't insinuate that they're terrible people for liking what they like? Even if there are some genuinely loving terrible people in their crowd. Valatar posted:It was her saying that in Hitman it was intended gameplay for a player to murder the women and derive pleasure from toying with their corpses. When in fact it was a game about murdering basically everyone and did not treat killing a random woman any differently from killing a random man. IIRC there was another clip from that one with, I think it was Saints Row? Where the player is at a bar and shoots a dancing woman, which she presented as more proof about games being out to promote violence against women, conveniently omitting the male dancer ten feet away who was just as killable, because as anyone who actually played those open world crime games knows, you can up and shoot literally anyone. Which is why I think she either never actually played those games to know that fact, or knew it and omitted the fact on purpose to serve her narrative. I think that is the root of the issue. She was already biased coming in, and people noticed that. She left watchers furious and trying to argue with her about misleading statements like on Hitman and Saints Row that went nowhere because she deliberately didn't listen. Then they become so mad they became mysoginist and ripe for Bannon and Breitbart to get in.
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Aug 17, 2023 20:10
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Endorph posted:i dont find many guys like that actually If you step a toe out of line from carefully curating your video watching experience the algorithm likes to take a huge dump on your floor.
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Aug 17, 2023 20:11
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King of Bleh posted:I'm also curious about this. I think there's only so much this thread can cover, going in circles around the general notion of "gamergate super sucked, but Sarkeesian also kinda sucked in her own way." But I'm very curious who we have, all of these years later, that we can hold up as a better example of someone doing game analysis through this lens. I still sorta blame John mcintosh for alot of her issues. he was her main writer for season one and then split over differences(mostly he wanted to over explain everything and she didnt) and her stuff got alot better when whats her name from gamespot joined. Bass.exe posted:I think that is the root of the issue. She was already biased coming in, and people noticed that. i think the one that genuinly made me actually mad was her and john tweeting some insane poo poo about Doom2016 when it was gameplay debuted.  she also kinda tried to rile people up with weird dumb poo poo, like mandolorian having no female charaters and etc. Mcintosh still says stupid poo poo on twitter, but i havent looked in months. idk i do think she did great work and got way to much awful poo poo but lol she was way to up her rear end at times. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Aug 17, 2023 |
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Aug 17, 2023 20:48
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Dapper_Swindler posted:she also kinda tried to rile people up with weird dumb poo poo, like mandolorian having no female charaters and etc. I thought it was the female Mandolorians having different armor than the male Mandolorians. On one hand gendercoded armor is pretty silly, on the other hand even the most practically designed female armor is going to look different from male armor just because of physical differences and the Mandolorian designs are pretty restrained. The tweet only really went viral because of the Anita Sarkeesian name recognition, though.
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Aug 17, 2023 20:55
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mycot posted:I thought it was the female Mandolorians having different armor than the male Mandolorians. On one hand gendercoded armor is pretty silly, on the other hand even the most practically designed female armor is going to look different from male armor just because of physical differences and the Mandolorian designs are pretty restrained. probably. honestly, i dont think she is really fully wrong on most stuff, she was just kinda lovely at telling it. Idk as an example i had a traininer manager for an old contract i did and while he knew what he was talking about, his tone and way he talked always made him come off as a massive prick, he had a very effemenent but talking down to you voice and he would just be catty if you asked a question wrong or whatever. he was just an rear end in a top hat, even though he genuinly helped us out and mostly ment well. i think that was bit of her problem. which i can't fully blame her for because assholes gonna rear end in a top hat and assholes hated her. i think alot of people took that and stuff like the doom tweet and others as finger wagging and alot of people don't like that. they feel like they are being judged for enjoying dumb video game poo poo and viewed as moral inferiors. while i dont think she or even john ever ment that, they never were able to help themselves. I stopped following that poo poo because the chuds are scarier then some critic making boring videos or her dipshit friend whining about how every male character that isnt stephen universe is toxic. the doom stuff and poo poo like it were the only things that genuinly pissed me off because it comes off like angry mommy getting mad that their kid likes horror movies. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Aug 17, 2023 |
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Aug 17, 2023 21:06
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Cutedge posted:I'm almost positive that there's a video of her from college in some class she was giving a presentation in where she says she doesn't like video games and has never played them. It seemed to worm its way around twitter. Of course, the issue is that this kind of credentials-check is used 95% on women and almost never on men (other than let's say Dean Takahashi unable to complete the tutorial of Cuphead). This is valid, naturally it's stupid to hassle a woman in a role of commentary about games or sports or any other traditionally male pastime; anybody who's a critic should be scrutinized equally for having some knowledge about the subject they critique and nobody ought to get a pass for their sex. To be fair, anyone who exhibits rank incompetence in a review usually gets pilloried for it regardless of any biology, but a guy who's simply mediocre can probably coast without catching too much flak. In this case however, these extremely incomplete or one-sided representations were being put forth as evidence of an entire group's inherent sexism, for videos being made for money. That warranted more, not less scrutiny than Rando McRanderson's review of Nintendogs on Gamespot.
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Aug 17, 2023 22:32
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Dapper_Swindler posted:probably. honestly, i dont think she is really fully wrong on most stuff, she was just kinda lovely at telling it. Idk as an example i had a traininer manager for an old contract i did and while he knew what he was talking about, his tone and way he talked always made him come off as a massive prick, he had a very effemenent but talking down to you voice and he would just be catty if you asked a question wrong or whatever. he was just an rear end in a top hat, even though he genuinly helped us out and mostly ment well. i think that was bit of her problem. which i can't fully blame her for because assholes gonna rear end in a top hat and assholes hated her. i think alot of people took that and stuff like the doom tweet and others as finger wagging and alot of people don't like that. they feel like they are being judged for enjoying dumb video game poo poo and viewed as moral inferiors. while i dont think she or even john ever ment that, they never were able to help themselves. anita is a human version of the Last Jedi. the detractors of the movie are a thousand times more dangerous and lovely, but it's hard to defend the movie cause it is legitimately awful  Valatar posted:This is valid, naturally it's stupid to hassle a woman in a role of commentary about games or sports or any other traditionally male pastime; anybody who's a critic should be scrutinized equally for having some knowledge about the subject they critique and nobody ought to get a pass for their sex. To be fair, anyone who exhibits rank incompetence in a review usually gets pilloried for it regardless of any biology, but a guy who's simply mediocre can probably coast without catching too much flak. note how these same people didn't seem to give an iota of poo poo at people like mike cernovich and milo -the latter of which LITERALLY MOCKED GAMERS(TM) ENDLESSLY until he realized he could take advantage of GG - for not knowing poo poo about gaming beforehand
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Aug 17, 2023 23:03
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Valatar posted:Then, thanks to the well-poisoning caused by nerds losing their poo poo about their holy hobby being besmirched, followed by media losing their poo poo about the nerds losing their poo poo, we now have this weird public belief that there are legions of turbo-autist basement-dwellers who will have a Chris-chan freakout if anyone dares to put out a game with a woman in it who isn't a fuckdoll, that utter rear end in a top hat gamers are, if not the majority, a large percentage rather than the small portion they actually represent. We've seen echoes of that in that boogeyman being pulled out by Sony trying to defend the Ghostbusters reboot tanking and the Bully Hunters debacle; whenever there's a cynical ploy to make bank off of women, the ever-dreaded Misogynerd is conveniently on the scene to point at with a big dose of, "You sure don't want those mean nerds to win, better stick it to them by buying our corporate product!" Our society as a whole is worse off as an indirect result of the stupidity that arose around these videos, and they aren't even good videos. Go read the last 5 or 10 pages of the Games Industry thread about gamers in Korea and see how well that fits with your "basement gamer bogeyman" theory
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Aug 17, 2023 23:14
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korea is notably, not america besides, it can be true that both guys like that exist and that companies cynically invoke them as a marketing ploy Endorph fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Aug 17, 2023 |
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Aug 17, 2023 23:27
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Valatar posted:It was her saying that in Hitman it was intended gameplay for a player to murder the women and derive pleasure from toying with their corpses. When in fact it was a game about murdering basically everyone and did not treat killing a random woman any differently from killing a random man. IIRC there was another clip from that one with, I think it was Saints Row? Where the player is at a bar and shoots a dancing woman, which she presented as more proof about games being out to promote violence against women, conveniently omitting the male dancer ten feet away who was just as killable, because as anyone who actually played those open world crime games knows, you can up and shoot literally anyone. Which is why I think she either never actually played those games to know that fact, or knew it and omitted the fact on purpose to serve her narrative. She absolutely went ahead and conveniently ignored poo poo in games that didn't fit her narrative. It was part of the reason people got so pressed over it. It's hard to avoid being told you don't know your poo poo when you're deliberately skewing the truth, especially when the people you're trying to do it to actually play the games enough to call you out on it.
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Aug 17, 2023 23:47
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dogstile posted:She absolutely went ahead and conveniently ignored poo poo in games that didn't fit her narrative. It was part of the reason people got so pressed over it. It's hard to avoid being told you don't know your poo poo when you're deliberately skewing the truth, especially when the people you're trying to do it to actually play the games enough to call you out on it. Which leads to how frustrating it was Sarkeesian became such a dog whistle for chuds where if somebody said they didn't like her commentary that by itself was fine, but sometimes when they elaborated it when in a bad direction.
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Aug 17, 2023 23:53
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Endorph posted:her 'more recent work' seems to 90% be podcasts about mcu movies that get sub-500 views I noticed that too, because I think I checked the Feminist Frequency YouTube channel at one point (maybe around the time of the Mandalorian armor controversy), and I saw that a lot of the videos had low view counts, and I thought, "Why are they so low?" It's puzzling, because even though she moved away from the field of video games, for as big of a splash she made, and for as many defenders as she had, it didn't really seem to result in long term support. Given that, it seems like FemFreq shut down not due to continued harassment, but moreso due to lack of interest. Feels Villeneuve posted:Jonathan McIntosh  McIntosh probably did a better job of dissuading me from listen to FemFreq takes than any of the detractors could have. Like you could write a book (or at the very least, a very long pamphlet) about all the takes he's made. However, the crowning one that always stands out to me is related to something that was mentioned a few pages ago: mycot posted:Tracer's girlfriend was very early in Overwatch's lifespan when people were very high on the game and still hopeful that they might do something with it. By the time you got to Soldier 76 is Gay the game had been mismanaged for years and it was clear nothing was going anywhere, so people became a lot more cynical. When the comic with the Tracer girlfriend reveal dropped, McIntosh tweeted about how problematic is was. I don't remember word-for-word what he said, and I really don't want to go digging for it, but it was something along the lines , 'we need lesbian couples that make straight men uncomfortable. I remember the topic came up in another thread, and someone said that there were a bunch of women who tweeted at him, saying that it wasn't a big deal and that they liked the reveal, and that his response...was to block them. In fairness, it's been a while since I read that, and it's possible he may have apologized for it, but when I heard that, I found equals parts hilarious and aggravating. EDIT: Pharohman777 posted:That is pretty much what everybody replying to him in the Twitter thread was pointing out. He seems to assume that lesbians and straight men have completely different standards of attractiveness, so to McIntosh its somehow possible to make a lesbian that is only attractive to lesbians and is not attractive to straight men. Max Wilco fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Aug 18, 2023 |
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Aug 18, 2023 00:00
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dogstile posted:She absolutely went ahead and conveniently ignored poo poo in games that didn't fit her narrative. It was part of the reason people got so pressed over it. It's hard to avoid being told you don't know your poo poo when you're deliberately skewing the truth, especially when the people you're trying to do it to actually play the games enough to call you out on it. Again, she wasn't wrong a lot of the time. She made factual errors in a criticism that was generally on point, because a lot of the issues she brings up are like background radiation in Western nerd media. It's simply that nobody had gotten around to looking at games through that lens in 2008-2009.
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Aug 18, 2023 00:35
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Endorph posted:her 'more recent work' seems to 90% be podcasts about mcu movies that get sub-500 views i think thats mcintosh, he does big twitter threads on the poo poo. mostly just bitches about stuff, some genuin stuff others weird "its not suffciantly lefty enough for me". i agree with some of his stuff but holy poo poo he basicaly thinks anything that isnt stephen universe is toxic masculinty. like its hard enough getting people to reconize it as a real thing. that poo poo doesnt help. Max Wilco posted:I noticed that too, because I think I checked the Feminist Frequency YouTube channel at one point (maybe around the time of the Mandalorian armor controversy), and I saw that a lot of the videos had low view counts, and I thought, "Why are they so low?" It's puzzling, because even though she moved away from the field of video games, for as big of a splash she made, and for as many defenders as she had, it didn't really seem to result in long term support. i believe he basicaly did a half appology while gurgling about internal mysoginy or some poo poo. I dont think he is a bad dude, but from his own words he grew up in a social conservative house hold, he never really dropped the outlook/lense it seems, just the perspective. https://twitter.com/radicalbytes/with_replies doesnt post anymore much. Mr Interweb posted:anita is a human version of the Last Jedi. the detractors of the movie are a thousand times more dangerous and lovely, but it's hard to defend the movie cause it is legitimately awful i liked last jedi or at least alot of it. but yeah pretty much.
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Aug 18, 2023 00:56
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Wanderer posted:Again, she wasn't wrong a lot of the time. She made factual errors in a criticism that was generally on point, because a lot of the issues she brings up are like background radiation in Western nerd media. It's simply that nobody had gotten around to looking at games through that lens in 2008-2009. Well, no one making youtube video essays.
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Aug 18, 2023 01:06
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Max Wilco posted:I noticed that too, because I think I checked the Feminist Frequency YouTube channel at one point (maybe around the time of the Mandalorian armor controversy), and I saw that a lot of the videos had low view counts, and I thought, "Why are they so low?" It's puzzling, because even though she moved away from the field of video games, for as big of a splash she made, and for as many defenders as she had, it didn't really seem to result in long term support. I think it's what Valatar said, this is the first chronological instance I can think of of people publicly supporting someone financially or otherwise simply to try and enact a sick burn on an opposing group who they hate. They were never really that interested in what she had to say (or whether it was accurate or not), they just wanted to be seen supporting "their side", and once she no longer served as that kind of totem because the conversation moved onto something or someone else, or whatever, she was dropped by the wayside. Wanderer posted:She made factual errors in a criticism that was generally on point But if you're going to try and bill yourself as "lifelong gamer, nobly criticising the things I love dearly", this matters. Not making basic factual errors about a subject you claim to love matters. It outs you as deceptive at best, or a liar, and therefore undermines everything else you're trying to say. Dapper_Swindler posted:i believe he basicaly did a half appology while gurgling about internal mysoginy or some poo poo. I dont think he is a bad dude, but from his own words he grew up in a social conservative house hold, he never really dropped the outlook/lense it seems, just the perspective. From what I recall he had a blog post about being deeply affected by 9/11 to the point it shifted the course of his life and caused his current outlook, or something? I vaguely remember people commenting on that at some point.
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Aug 18, 2023 01:07
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Anita was a massive oval office who got her start in MLMs and then turned to SJW grifting Good riddance (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 18, 2023 01:17
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MarquiseMindfang posted:
yeah. he has a tweet about it. https://twitter.com/radicalbytes/status/1436793515896311808 I think my issue with their(plural) is the "critque what you love" or some poo poo, but like every time i watched a video or read their threads, i never got the vibe that they liked the poo poo. its like if i wrote about like cars or some poo poo and pretended i loved them. Clarste posted:Well, no one making youtube video essays. i think that poo poo sorta died near the end of trump term. it still exists but the good ones were chased off and quit(lindsey elise) or do them rarely. i mean hot take, alot of the people related to game gate loving sucked poo poo. its just the good guys were way less awful then the loving nazis. quinn strikes me as a lovely person and wu strikes me as someone who jumped on the horror show for clout. personally i think some horror show like gamergate was growing for a long loving time because games jorunalism was either really really meh/bad culture critics attemps or bad corpo ads. I think people like me didnt like them because these assholes got super loving mad when people wanted a better ending to the wet poo poo of mass effect 3. i think thats were that whole seed of horror show against journalism was somewhat planted. because to me back then the game journalists were loving desperate to be viewed like the new rolling stones and ebert and they always poo poo on their dumbshit audiance and then got suprised when they were turned against and not trusted. that being said. i feel like alot of gamesites have quietly gotten alot better which is very nice. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Aug 18, 2023 |
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Aug 18, 2023 01:28
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Wanderer posted:Again, she wasn't wrong a lot of the time. She made factual errors in a criticism that was generally on point, because a lot of the issues she brings up are like background radiation in Western nerd media. It's simply that nobody had gotten around to looking at games through that lens in 2008-2009. All i'm saying is that if you want to criticize games you should probably actually play them so even the most cursory glance by someone who does, doesn't disprove a shitton of your points.
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Aug 18, 2023 01:35
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Dapper_Swindler posted:I think my issue with their(plural) is the "critque what you love" or some poo poo, but like every time i watched a video or read their threads, i never got the vibe that they liked the poo poo. its like if i wrote about like cars or some poo poo and pretended i loved them. To be fair I get that vibe from a hell of a lot of gaming journalism these days. Dapper_Swindler posted:
Yeah absolutely this. The "gamers are entitled" thing predated Anita and already had people disliking journos. That and the extreme difference in the way they treated Jack Thompson for saying "video games cause violence" to Anita/Jon's "video games cause violence... and sexism!" was the straw that broke the camel's back for a lot of people. Gaming journalism is a job that a lot of ordinary gamers would kill to be paid to do, people grew up reading old school games mags and liking many of the writers and wanting to do that themselves, and these people were squandering their dream to poo poo on them and their hobby instead. It's understandable, viewed like that, why journos are so reviled now. Journos were no small part of what went down honestly. Just kept kicking the hornet's nest for clicks knowing full well the majority of the outraged backlash would hit someone else, that being Anita.
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Aug 18, 2023 01:45
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