|
it's fine to make it even slightly harder to do psychotic poo poo in people's redtexts even if you can get around it if you're dedicated enough and make a burner, or whatever. you could probably get around anything if you're psychotic and/or determined enough
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 14:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 10:15 |
|
|
Fluffdaddy posted:He has spent the last 5 hours using the tools he does have to look into this. Boba Pearl posted:I'm also in direct contact, he's not doing nothing.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 14:21
|
|
|
I've written up a brief, specific, and actionable feature request in TECH that should improve the av buy situation if implemented, if anyone wants to look and chime in with their own thoughts and feedback https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4040077 Son of Thunderbeast fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Aug 22, 2023 |
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 14:45
|
|
|
Slugworth posted:Av blanks need to be approved by an admin, right? So there's a mechanism in place for av changes to be approved? Can that just be applied to all av changes? They can remain anonymous then, if that's a technical/spiritual issue. I think that solution still has problems, unfortunately. It puts a ton of pressure on the moderators or admins and someone could abuse the hell out of the admins themselves with hosed up images or messages targeting the admin themselves. There's also the community reaction to consider. Goons are very quick to flame the mods/admins for any infraction and I could imagine the community going after the admins for approving a red text or an avatar purchase that they saw as innocuous. I understand that yeah mods bastards, Jeff bad, etc, but they're still human too There's not a move that'll be a solve short of disabling the function entirely. As Arf said earlier, best play is try to be vigilant about your online identity. And to their credit, mods and admins move pretty quick to blank lovely avatars or red texts.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 15:10
|
|
|
i think blanks go through immediately but then can be repealed. title changes work the other way and have to be approved
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 15:14
|
|
|
I'm of the opinion that right now? gently caress the community reaction. That's a problem for later. Right now the community is the one causing the drat problem, by doing the doxxing; impede the ability of those in the community inclined to do so first, then worry about the reaction. The people who aren't doing it, won't care.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 15:17
|
|
|
Every solution has problems, it's a question of whether those problems are smaller and worth the tradeoff to solve the bigger problem. "Adding another duty to the mod list" seems like a good trade for "a usable measure to greatly reduce and even outright prevent something like this from happening again" to me
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 15:18
|
|
|
Having someone - a volunteer, to be clear - have to manually approve every title change/request is psycho poo poo. If you don't think that will burn a mod/admin out literally immediately, you have literally not had to do any community legwork. Disable anonymous av-buying until a solution is implemented, ideally that solution is "all avs can be traced back to a purchaser with a forum account so if someone doxxes someone or buys a transphobic av the admins can immediately ban them". On top of that, an additional hurdle than just "needs an account" to dissuade the usual insane rereg guys would be a nice-to-have but probably take further implementation. This is probably the solution with the least amount of additional responsibility thrust on volunteer mods.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 15:43
|
|
|
Monathin posted:Having someone - a volunteer, to be clear - have to manually approve every title change/request is psycho poo poo. If you don't think that will burn a mod/admin out literally immediately, you have literally not had to do any community legwork. This is a fraction of the difficulty of the reports queue, a thing that already exists. How many avatars do you think get changed a day that this is some impossible thing? At least as an easy stopgap (assuming there's not massive bullshit relating to this, manual approvals were the default originally), it's worth considering.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 15:50
|
|
|
Ah, yes, the reports queue, that thing that so notably works completely perfectly and isn't the most kludged-together load-bearing shitfest. Come on man. Also this is not just about the tech solution; having to put mods, who are, again, volunteers, and have them have to yay or nae every title change - a bunch of those being transphobic, doxxing attempts, or other heinous poo poo - is going to open a huge can of worms - as Serv pointed out, it opens up the mods/admins to significantly more abuse, whether real or perceived and burn out whoever has to handle it. A solution that does not gently caress up an already strained volunteer workforce more than it already is, is probably the better solution overall.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 15:55
|
|
|
The mods and admins are going to have to deal with doxing attempts and other heinous poo poo whether avatar purchases are anonymous or not. If the avatars don't show up immediately and have to be approved everyone in the forums won't see them at least. I don't see a way to completely get rid of that and still keep any kind of red text or avatar purchasing for others. People will just buy accounts to buy avatars, or wait out some time delay, or post 10 times to meet whatever posting requirements there are. People spend thousands of dollars on this place just changing avatars and poo poo, its the reason I only had to pay 10 bucks in 2006 and can still post here without ads. If you don't want those people to be able to doxx people through avatars, you have to have someone review the avatar or text before it is implemented.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 16:04
|
|
|
Monathin posted:Having someone - a volunteer, to be clear - have to manually approve every title change/request is psycho poo poo. Lmao
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 16:16
|
|
|
Monathin posted:Having someone - a volunteer, to be clear - have to manually approve every title change/request is psycho poo poo. If you don't think that will burn a mod/admin out literally immediately, you have literally not had to do any community legwork. It should be linked to a bloody account and if an account buys something hosed, you sanction that account and automatically run an alt check and saction any alts accordingly. There  problem solved.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 16:20
|
|
|
StratGoatCom posted:It should be linked to a bloody account and if an account buys something hosed, you sanction that account and automatically run an alt check and saction any alts accordingly. vpns are a thing, are way cheaper than an account, and give you near infinite ips to play with. they used to advertise on this very site. alt-checks only hit the laziest of crazies.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 16:25
|
|
|
CRIP EATIN BREAD posted:vpns are a thing, are way cheaper than an account, and give you near infinite ips to play with. Amend that to solved as it can be, if it's ~only~ as bad as alt-hunting and announcing themselves as someone to alt check that is still a massive step up from status quo.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 16:31
|
|
|
Monathin posted:On top of that, an additional hurdle than just "needs an account" to dissuade the usual insane rereg guys would be a nice-to-have but probably take further implementation. I'm curious about what you're thinking here, because I'm not seeing a lot of ways to reasonably, consistently detect a specific miscreant outside of an account login. Even ignoring VPNs, IP addresses change constantly, and occasionally mark an entire state or ISP rather than a single person. Payment details are out of the reach of even Jeff, who only receives a generic transaction ID number from the payment processor. And I'd hope that nobody's willing to do the Twitter Verified submit-your-ID-documents thing for here, of all places.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 16:33
|
|
|
The Kins posted:What would you suggest as a feasible additional hurdle or detection method? Reg dates? Certain account characteristics? Or some other identification method? You could do registered account with at least X posts and then if something was fishy there’s a chance they’d get sniffed out before that hit that post limit to buy avi changes.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 16:37
|
|
|
CRIP EATIN BREAD posted:vpns are a thing, are way cheaper than an account, and give you near infinite ips to play with. While true, it does at least add an additional hurdle/shithead tax of $10 per burner they want to buy an av with, making the minimum price per doxx-av $20. It's not perfect but there won't be a perfect solution.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 16:38
|
|
CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:I suspect anonymous harrassers would do burner accounts if it became tied to an account. So given some forums don't raise and even lower your post count, the next bar could be that av purchases can only be done with a Platinum account? If burner account death squads become an issue just make it so your account has to be like, I don't know, a week old and post once or something to buy an avatar for other people, like how steam doesn't let you trade or receive games if you haven't bought something yourself. Sure, then dedicated creeps will buy sleeper cell accounts to just sit there and squat until they need to burn one like a psychopath. There's always going to be some weird lunatic who can bypass whatever it is that gets put up; but the goal, as pointed out, is to deter most people who would consider doing the lovely thing not just that one guy.
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 16:39
|
|
|
The Kins posted:Payment details are out of the reach of even Jeff, who only receives a generic transaction ID number from the payment processor. I don't know why this lie keeps spreading, because he absolutely can see transaction details, including name and address and last four digits, etc.. But much like with the VPN problem, virtual cards, prepaid cards, etc. are easy to come by.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 16:39
|
|
|
Nuebot posted:If burner account death squads become an issue just make it so your account has to be like, I don't know, a week old and post once or something to buy an avatar for other people, like how steam doesn't let you trade or receive games if you haven't bought something yourself. Sure, then dedicated creeps will buy sleeper cell accounts to just sit there and squat until they need to burn one like a psychopath. There's always going to be some weird lunatic who can bypass whatever it is that gets put up; but the goal, as pointed out, is to deter most people who would consider doing the lovely thing not just that one guy. I would say about a year or 2, maybe a few hundo posts but yeah.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 16:42
|
|
|
TheMightyBoops posted:You could do registered account with at least X posts and then if something was fishy there’s a chance they’d get sniffed out before that hit that post limit to buy avi changes. Yeah this is how I would do it. You might need to figure out a loophole for negative post accounts for the FYAD regulars but beyond that, make it a number that's hard to acquire in one day without attracting some mod suspicion. Like 30-50 or whatever the old j4g standards used to be. e: Like, to be clear, as stated, nothing is going to be foolproof but having two different types of gates (pay for an account that purchases are linked to, post enough that you get clear to buy avs for others) will deter all but the most insane people.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 16:43
|
|
|
Monathin posted:Yeah this is how I would do it. You might need to figure out a loophole for negative post accounts for the FYAD regulars but beyond that, make it a number that's hard to acquire in one day without attracting some mod suspicion. Like 30-50 or whatever the old j4g standards used to be. I was wondering if there’s an actual post count stored for a user as well as their shown post count that could be negative, I doubt it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 16:49
|
|
|
it's impossible to prevent some random outsider cyberstalker from posting somebody's address over and over again. all we can do is make it inconvenient but we should at least take measures to make sure it's traceable so that if an actual community member does it, we can kick them the gently caress out of the community. the people doxxing goons aren't always outsiders
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 16:52
|
|
|
Boba Pearl posted:The main reason I don't agitate for this, or really comment on it is because as far as I know, this kind of harassment just isn't possible to stop. You either live with it until it goes away or you move. I think the real solution here isn't just avatar traceability but also the ability to disable (temporarily or otherwise) other avatar purchasing for specific users. Your account should be "protected", for lack of a better word, then we don't need to play a cat and mouse game with the harasser
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 16:54
|
|
|
I don't think changing the way avatars are bought helps anyone or the website in the long run for all the reasons that've been discussed above. even as someone who currently has a wack av because of a COVID thread weirdo, I also think buying red texts is too engrained in SA's culture to want to get rid of. but I also don't want particular users to be unsafe a function where a user's account can be locked or protected from av buys in extenuating circumstances is the best route
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 17:01
|
|
|
Here's the revenue from the SA store according to the owner. The highest revenue month was October 2021, and if each purchase was a $5 avatar purchase than that would be about 60 avatar buys a day. The lowest revenue month was May 2022 and that would be about 30 avatar buys a day at $5. Thats if all revenue was from the cheapest type of avatar purchase and no other source like the more expensive $10 version of buying someone an avatar or account purchases. There will be mistakes if admins/mods have to approve purchases, but unless my math is wrong then that's about the scope of purchasing were talking about. Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:. I would argue that most of the negative avatar buys are not from people "outside" the community, but it's mostly internal forum drama that blows up and making them traceable would limit the amount of really bad red text purchases. Also, it's the insane people who are spending the most money and who will continue to doxx even if half measure barriers are put up like account age requirements.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 17:07
|
|
|
WarpDogs posted:I think the real solution here isn't just avatar traceability but also the ability to disable (temporarily or otherwise) other avatar purchasing for specific users. Your account should be "protected", for lack of a better word, then we don't need to play a cat and mouse game with the harasser Do both. That should basically put a lid on this as much as it will be.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 17:11
|
|
|
WarpDogs posted:I think the real solution here isn't just avatar traceability but also the ability to disable (temporarily or otherwise) other avatar purchasing for specific users. Your account should be "protected", for lack of a better word, then we don't need to play a cat and mouse game with the harasser What is this suggestion, other than "popular posters get account level protection from forums culture"? The fixes to this problem are obvious Implement a tracability system or disable the feature for everyone. Please don't create a codified system of favoritism for SomethingAwful Preferred Users Not by any means defending what happened to boba here, but holy poo poo just tear the idol down already, don't create elaborate workarounds so we can keep the paid forum punishment buttons. The feature has always been used to do insanely mean and antisocial poo poo to other people, if we are really at the point where we can't stomach this anymore, then maybe hostile avatar purchasing has run it's course Engorged Pedipalps fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Aug 22, 2023 |
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 17:16
|
|
|
ArfJason posted:Jeffrey from my experiences isnt a bad or malicious dude but sometimes hes stubborn and does the disappearing act which is stupidly frustrating to deal with when poo poo goes sideways. But theres one thing that you all gotta know and its that this is something jeffrey wont be able to fix. I posted ab this in the small questions thread by accident but yah, exactly. Malachite_Dragon posted:This! I get it sometimes sucks to run this site and/or be an admin but sometimes you gotta cowboy up
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 17:45
|
|
|
CRIP EATIN BREAD posted:vpns are a thing, are way cheaper than an account, and give you near infinite ips to play with.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 18:02
|
|
|
Couldn't Jeff just make the purchase price of buying someone else an avatar like $9999.99 or something until it's sorted? Seems like an easy way to to bottleneck it until there's tracking
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 18:19
|
|
|
Made a separate feature request for authenticated avatar purchases, please voice support and/or technical/implementation thoughts and discussions for astral here: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4040126 I'm submitting these in TECH to track the issue, "authenticated av buys" has been brought up multiple times in the past, so I'm hoping an FR thread or two will raise visibility and keep the issue from easily sliding into the background until the next crisis.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 19:04
|
|
|
why are red texts important? serious question, I have never once in my life read one that I thought was interesting or funny or worth a second of my time a better question is not just why they're important but why they're so important that we should keep them around at the expense of providing an anonymous way to doxx and harass users that makes money for the site owner
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 19:20
|
|
|
i like red texts because every time i see someone with one that says "NAZI" or something i assume there's a 10% chance they're a nazi and a 90% chance they posted a take in the Final Fantasy XIV thread someone disagreed with
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 19:25
|
|
|
Yeah ideally 3 things need to happen: Accounts tied to buying avatars for others. Some sort of lockout for new accounts buying avatars for others (postcount/time) A way for Admins to lock accounts from having their avatar changed
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 19:45
|
|
|
Dr. Fishopolis posted:why are red texts important? present case and similar ones excluded, ive always found them a badge of honor, because you made someone angry enough to spend money to change your avatar into an impotent rant, and thats the crux of it; they spent money, youve won before you even knew there was a fight lol but anyway, i think most goons misinterpret the main point i was getting at, which isnt to throw your hands up and not implement any measures to make it more inconvenient, but that the real solution is to just not have the info out there at all. This is not chastising ppl for slipping up, im just begging you for your sanity and safety to not let it happen to you in the first place, because these technological implementations are not solutions for a social problem.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 20:33
|
|
|
Good that this gets fixed. Happy to make (another) separate thread here, but how do we get Jeff to do the other Jeff-only things without needing another doxxing-or-doxxing-like event?
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 21:16
|
|
|
ArfJason posted:but anyway, i think most goons misinterpret the main point i was getting at, which isnt to throw your hands up and not implement any measures to make it more inconvenient, but that the real solution is to just not have the info out there at all. This is not chastising ppl for slipping up, im just begging you for your sanity and safety to not let it happen to you in the first place, because these technological implementations are not solutions for a social problem. Nah. Personal online safety is important, but instead of victim blaming we should implement changes that allow us to target the psychos who want to doxx other users because we don’t want them here at all.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 21:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 10:15 |
|
|
lets do both
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2023 21:23
|
|
