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godlike posts big leg
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Dec 9, 2023 00:36
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Big Leg posted:the most important thing in the entire movie that i didn't notice until i went picture hunting: the wakaba car I'm happy to report that the little yellow and green emblem on her bumper is called a Wakaba mark and it's used to designate inexperienced drivers. They're new at this, but they're trying to escape the cycle! Big Leg posted:the movie is at it's best when it reinterprets iconic imagery or conversations from the show. pictured: chasms and beds, but slightly different this time around Your theory about the Touga stuff is I believe actually what happened. My understanding is they wanted to put his backstory in the show but weren't able to for some reason. Maybe it got too explicit about the child abuse for the timeslot. All the imagery in this movie looks incredible even if sometimes the meaning is a little suspect, but when it's on point it's on point. Big Leg posted:the architecture of the movie is really fricking cool. here's some stuff i liked: The way the school looks in this movie is maybe my favorite thing about it. Some of the weirdest and coolest stuff I've seen. That's a good observation about the shots where characters are being grabbed by the backdrops, I'd never noticed that and it makes sense given everything about Ohtori
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Dec 9, 2023 02:10
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chrome line posted:I'm happy to report that the little yellow and green emblem on her bumper is called a Wakaba mark and it's used to designate inexperienced drivers. Oh drat, I never realized that. This is an awesome detail on a movie that's absurdly full of details in nearly every shot.
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Dec 9, 2023 02:27
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Big Leg posted:the architecture of the movie is really fricking cool. here's some stuff i liked: I hadn't realized how much it feels akin to the architecture in Yuri Kuma Arashi.
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Dec 9, 2023 03:25
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chrome line posted:I'm happy to report that the little yellow and green emblem on her bumper is called a Wakaba mark and it's used to designate inexperienced drivers. They're new at this, but they're trying to escape the cycle! oh my god. i love that so much
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Dec 9, 2023 10:16
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Maera Sior posted:I hadn't realized how much it feels akin to the architecture in Yuri Kuma Arashi. adding this to the top of my anime queue immediately without any other context
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Dec 9, 2023 10:30
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i never finished yurikuma but pretty much anything by our boy is good content for an utenahead
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Dec 9, 2023 10:31
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Ohtori Akio posted:i never finished yurikuma but pretty much anything by our boy is good content for an utenahead i might need a tiny ikuhara break but apparently watching sailor moon with my sister when i was 10 was actually a fundamental life experience
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Dec 9, 2023 10:37
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Big Leg posted:i might need a tiny ikuhara break but apparently watching sailor moon with my sister when i was 10 was actually a fundamental life experience why would you ever think it wasn't
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Dec 9, 2023 10:38
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for those looking for an ikuhara palate cleanser, i've it on good authority that a K-On! re/watch will be popping up at some point soon
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Dec 9, 2023 10:39
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Ohtori Akio posted:why would you ever think it wasn't i guess it takes time to figure out if sailor moon or reboot was the most important thing you watched when you were a little kid
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Dec 9, 2023 10:46
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Ohtori Akio posted:for those looking for an ikuhara palate cleanser, i've it on good authority that a K-On! re/watch will be popping up at some point soon the k-on re/watch will not start until you post your movie thoughts
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Dec 9, 2023 10:52
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Big Leg posted:the k-on re/watch will not start until you post your movie thoughts youve checkmated me
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Dec 9, 2023 10:59
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chrome line posted:Your theory about the Touga stuff is I believe actually what happened. My understanding is they wanted to put his backstory in the show but weren't able to for some reason. Maybe it got too explicit about the child abuse for the timeslot. Takehito Koyasu, who voices Touga, was unable to be in the second season of Utena-- I've heard that it was due to scheduling conflicts or that it might have been due to illness, and I can't recall which claim was better sourced atm. Either way, Touga's backstory was probably set to be revealed in the second season had they been able to include him. We'd have gotten a very different BRS if Touga had been an active character in it. Here is the text of Enokido's quote regarding Touga's background, spoilered and obviously content warning for sexual abuse of a child: Although the TV series touched upon Touga’s younger days, the film goes into more details – the wound of Touga that was never directly depicted. In his younger days, Touga was a normal kid who enjoyed happy times with his friend Saionji Kyouichi and his younger sister Nanami. However, he came to know his unfortunate fate from the time he was ordered by his parents to wear his hair long. His parents sold him to the Kiryuu family. Although he was an adopted son on the surface, the instinctive Touga knew what that meant. And in order to protect his younger sister, he accepted his lot. Being sold. We did not go into depicting what Touga’s parents obtained by going as far as selling their son. We would like you to think of it as a kind of metaphor. And Touga accepted in silence the sexual abuse from his new parents. His personality changed while he made a magnanimous show of enjoying the abuses in order to prevent his personality from splitting. The change took place in a spot so deep in his mind, that even those closest to him did not notice. Saionji and Nanami never noticed out of their innocence. And Touga never told his secret to anyone. It is said that a human being gains whatever he lost in exchange. So what did Touga gain in exchange at that point in time? It was the sense of alienation from being abused every night and seeing his innocent friend and sister during the day. The alienated self. And it is out of this awareness of alienation that you come to obtain a higher human and sexual self-awareness. In the TV series, Saionji always felt that he was one step behind Touga. Although the two are more or less equal in terms of ability, what Saionji lacked was that sense of alienation. This comes from the Shoujo Kakumei Utena Privacy Files, which tbh I can't remember where they are on our trash heap of a site so here's a link to where they were posted on the old forum. They're an interesting read-- Enokido did a lot of the story work for Touga, Akio, and Anthy-centric episodes so he's got some interesting insights. If anyone still wants more Utena, you can also check out the light novels or if there's anyone interested I could dig up wherever we're hosting the game files now, or of course there's always the new musicals, which imo were fantastic.
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Dec 9, 2023 13:32
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So something I've been wanting to highlight since this thread began is how brilliant I think the first season is at giving you information about the greater mysteries of the show without you realising because at that point you still aren't really sure of how seriously to take anything or how deeply you should be looking at things. For example, on a rewatch it is very clear that Anthy intentionally gets Miki to duel Utena by playing the song from his childhood right at the point where it seems like he would never want to duel. When you're first watching it you probably assume it's a coincidence because Anthy is so passive and how could she possibly have known about that song and why would she want Miki to duel? But when you rewatch it's obvious what she's doing. She does much the same thing with Juri by "co-incidentally" offering her a flower in an identical way to how Shiori once did. This foreshadows both that she's an active participant in the dueling game and that she has access to ways to know these things about the characters supernaturally. The second season gets more overt with it like when she gets Wakaba to duel by wearing the hair-clip Saoinji made in front of her. It's a clear case of antagonism but you can still kind of excuse it as unintentional up until the reveal that Anthy has been Mamiya the whole time. But I think the best example of the show showing you something without you realising it is with the Nanami episodes. Because lets be clear, every single funny Nanami episode is actually about Anthy loving with Nanami using magic. Anthy is straight up using magic in every one of those episodes. She foils all of Nanami plans to humiliate her in the first one, she intentionally switches bodies with Utena and sends Nanami to India*, she turns Nanami into a cow and she makes Nanami think she's laid an egg. All just to gently caress with her. But because it's all played out as a joke and Anthy is so good at pretended to be passive you don't seriously put it together that this is a real bit of foreshadowing and a reveal that Anthy is much more powerful and has much more agency than she is pretending to have. I really do think this is a brilliant bit of writing and a clever way to slip some clues under the audiences guard. There are a lot more examples of stuff like this in the show so any first-timers really should consider a rewatch at some point because it's great picking up on this stuff. Btw I favor a quite realist view of the show as you can tell. * BTW a really cool detail is that when Nanami is going to India it's very stylised but you can see that her plane is taking off from inside the campus, which also foreshadows that the Academy itself is essentially a weird pocket-dimension that doesn't really exist in the real world. The "India" she visits is probably also this. Nephthys fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Dec 13, 2023 |
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Dec 13, 2023 16:14
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Nephthys posted:... lmao not attacking your notes just very funny to compare these sentences
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Dec 14, 2023 21:17
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Lady Radia posted:lmao Lol, well a bit of a problem with talking about this show is how much you consider any of it to actually be happening. We've seen the idea brought up in the thread that all of this is just an allegory for Anthy's own self-actualization and I think a lot of people do believe that the series is partially symbolism and the mechanics of what's happening aren't relevant. I prefer to think that the events in the series are real, in the sense that Anthy and Dios were real supernatural beings and after Anthy sealed Dios' power she created the school as a sort of separate reality and on Akio's behalf drew in these people burdened by their pasts to be duelists that he would use to try to regain the power of Dios. So instead of putting something down to symbolism or stylisation, I try to think of it as "Anthy doing it with magic". I think this is pretty internally consistent with the show. The power of Dios is an important plot element. We do see that magic is real in the show, in serious non-stylised moments. The school is presented as being separate from reality which is why Mikage and Utena both "graduate" when they let go of their self-harming ideals and essentially cease to exist in the school. I think it's cool to think about this stuff on top of what everything means in terms of the characters themselves. Nephthys fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Dec 14, 2023 |
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Dec 14, 2023 21:40
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The question of whether it's happening or not is entirely vacuuous, it's a work of fiction and the meaning and message is the same either way. Rhetoric is a perversion of poetry.
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Dec 14, 2023 21:55
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Nephthys posted:But I think the best example of the show showing you something without you realising it is with the Nanami episodes. Because lets be clear, every single funny Nanami episode is actually about Anthy loving with Nanami using magic. Anthy is straight up using magic in every one of those episodes. She foils all of Nanami plans to humiliate her in the first one, she intentionally switches bodies with Utena and sends Nanami to India*, she turns Nanami into a cow and she makes Nanami think she's laid an egg. All just to gently caress with her. Also, it only started because Nanami (re)traumatized Anthy back in episode 3. Although I do think after a few rounds of it Anthy is just a bully gaslighting Nanami.
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Dec 14, 2023 22:05
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Maera Sior posted:Also, it only started because Nanami (re)traumatized Anthy back in episode 3. Although I do think after a few rounds of it Anthy is just a bully gaslighting Nanami. I suspect that Anthy does dislike Nanami, that bit with the saw is the closest Anthy ever gets to outright aggression. I doubt she cares about Nanami's bullying enough to want revenge but Nanami's ignorant crush on her brother probably rubs Anthy the wrong way. Or it might just be the case that bullying Nanami is really funny.
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Dec 14, 2023 23:24
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I think it can be both because it's funny and a form of petty revenge. But I also think Anthy is trying to warn Nanami in some ways. Trying to open her eyes to the way Touga treats her. so that maybe she can get out before it's too late.
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Dec 14, 2023 23:54
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Multiple motivations is especially credible because Anthy is someone going through growth and pain who is not at all in control of her emotions. A split reasoning between what she tells herself (I hate that bitch) and what she feels (I hope that bitch doesn't get abused too) seems very likely.
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Dec 14, 2023 23:59
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Nevil Maskelyne posted:The question of whether it's happening or not is entirely vacuuous, it's a work of fiction and the meaning and message is the same either way. Rhetoric is a perversion of poetry. This is a bad and dumb post! How much you read into the events of the series actually occurring, being Anthy’s imagination, multiple combinations therein (for example Utena is ftw so I don’t like interpretations where she’s not real or worse, dead), etc, factors very much into how you perceive the motivations and actions you see, which in turn colors your understanding and interpretation. Consider the poster talking about how Anthy used her Druid powers to have animals attack Nanami in India. If Anthy is just imagining that, it can indicate underlying resentment she has for Nanami, and envy of Utena being so outgoing and popular; if it’s real, even setting aside the magic poo poo, it leads to understanding the growing bond between Utena and her fiancé, and there’s countless other ways to read that, all of which lend deeper insight into the themes or meaning!
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Dec 15, 2023 00:33
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imo. whatever
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Dec 15, 2023 00:34
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Everyone in this thread is aware that television programs are moving images with sound, not reality. We are posting our takes about them for entertainment purposes. Utena is poetic because it gives people many different impressions of what is actually going on. We are not trying to end the thread with a co-signed manifesto about the correct reading.
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Dec 15, 2023 00:36
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the correct reading is that nanami is ftw
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Dec 15, 2023 00:37
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actually yeah we can all cosign that one
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Dec 15, 2023 00:37
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Leraika posted:the correct reading is that nanami is ftw yep
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Dec 15, 2023 00:40
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Leraika posted:the correct reading is that nanami is ftw
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Dec 15, 2023 00:49
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Ohtori Akio posted:Everyone in this thread is aware that television programs are moving images with sound, not reality. We are posting our takes about them for entertainment purposes. Utena is poetic because it gives people many different impressions of what is actually going on. We are not trying to end the thread with a co-signed manifesto about the correct reading. 
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Dec 15, 2023 02:10
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Leraika posted:the correct reading is that nanami is ftw this was my biggest takeaway as a first timer for sure
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Dec 15, 2023 04:59
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Nanami's pretty good yeah.
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Dec 15, 2023 14:19
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  mrw the haters and losers come out to play
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Dec 16, 2023 01:19
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Jan 10, 2024 18:56
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This show is really good. I think my favorite part is the song that plays when Utena marches up the stairs. It's relentless! I'm on episode 16 and things are getting wacky. there was a shot where Miki's sister has been brainwashed and is about to suck the sword out of him and she puts her hand on him and it's like EXACTLY like how Gendo puts his hand on Rei in End of Evangelion. I have no idea how the timing of these shows lines up but I love seeing stuff like that even if it's a complete coincidence. I love seeing things repeat and mix and show up in different ways over time and in various things (when they're good of course) SHISHKABOB fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Apr 7, 2024 |
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Apr 7, 2024 02:22
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SHISHKABOB posted:there was a shot where Miki's sister has been brainwashed and is about to suck the sword out of him and she puts her hand on him and it's like EXACTLY like how Gendo puts his hand on Rei in End of Evangelion. I have no idea how the timing of these shows lines up but I love seeing stuff like that even if it's a complete coincidence. I love seeing things repeat and mix and show up in different ways over time and in various things (when they're good of course) Looking it up, that episode came out about a week before End of Eva hit theaters. It's not impossible that Ikuhara had seen it before, given he was good friends with Anno (and was the inspiration for Kaworu) but I don't think it's possible for it to have been an influence on that specific shot. It isn't impossible they're both pulling from something I can't think of right not though, Anno certainly does that a lot and Ikuhara isn't a stranger to stealing shots from anime or film either. It could also just be a coincidence! Hard to say
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Apr 7, 2024 06:11
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i think the utena-eva comparison is always valid even if influence is indirect because they're dealing with such related theming and in the same moment.
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Apr 7, 2024 07:05
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  cried here
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Apr 8, 2024 03:13
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Ohtori Akio posted:i think the utena-eva comparison is always valid even if influence is indirect because they're dealing with such related theming and in the same moment. Yeah the influence mostly isn't going to be a one to one thing but Ikuhara and Anno were friends, and many people who worked on each show were peers, and they pull from some of the same influences and were working in similar spaces at around the same time. There's going to be some strong points of comparison! SHISHKABOB posted:
This is one of many scenes that gets me, you're far from alone
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Apr 8, 2024 07:07
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| # ? May 1, 2024 14:52 |
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Ohtori Akio posted:i think the utena-eva comparison is always valid even if influence is indirect because they're dealing with such related theming and in the same moment. As well as the friendship between the leads, Enokido was a script writer on both. There's a lot of crossover!
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Apr 8, 2024 11:30
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