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Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?
I think I like Skull Merchant. :shobon: Got the Adept easily, power flows pretty smoothly. Then again I am a die-hard M1 fundamentals melon head so layering a bunch of free info and M1 chase enhancements is gravy for me. Probably falls apart against stronger survivors.

Still, muh refined contrarian tastes. :smug:

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Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?
Killer hooks a survivor and you're within 20 yards and crouched.

Your new survivor looks over their shoulder directly into the 4th wall. "Well, THAT just happened."

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?
It read like a flat list of buffs on paper. A ranged 110 can now 115 and M1 freely and he has laser guided knives for quick ultimates? How does he not just double damage everybody he sees, sounds like Huntress without wind up! But somehow he's weaker.

Considering the average player insisting he's stronger maybe he got buffed against potatoes that can't loop.

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?
They might as well put an option toggle in officially. If they had perfect software that flawlessly disabled overlays without crossing any lines on messing with your personal system, a literally magical perfect anticheat, then you'd just put a bit of tape on your monitor!

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?

CuddleCryptid posted:

Half of Hunteess' design is not being 100% positive of where the axe is going.

Gotta disagree. Watching any Huntress main and my own experience grinding out the 10 long distance mortar shots achievement is that the axe is 100% reliable. The issue is learning the hitbox vs the terrain. I also don't do the crosshair tape thing myself since I can eyeball the center of the screen. The axe has no randomness to it.

If people were not 100% positive of where the axe was going would they run long distance aura perks? There's a huge element of throwing the axe and not being certain it'll get there but that is due to the movement of the survivor and the wild variation in terrain that will interrupt it, including trees and tall debris. So you start by throwing mortar shots at static targets like generators.

The devs may have intended for it but it's the same as the Nurse blink, where every Nurse main urges you to learn the distances by feel without using the marker addon every time. If the killer is supposed to have an element of disorder/variance to their power use then BHVR hasn't actually put one in.

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?

CuddleCryptid posted:

To be clear I don't mean that the axe throw itself has a random element to it, I mean that eyeballing the center of the screen is still an imperfect science at the best of times.

True, why I made the Nurse comparison. After a certain experience threshold it isn't much of a thing anymore.

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?

rydiafan posted:

For 4 survivors to get the hatch the gens have to all be done. Barring an amazing end game build, and/or a horrific altruism spiral, at least 3 of them are getting out at that point anyway.

Medullah posted:

Fair enough, guess it's been a bit so I don't remember all the details.

It scaled based on survivors and gens left and was "Number of completed Generators = Number of alive Survivors + 1." So a whole team escape was very unlikely(or identical to a normal blow out) and the killer was pretty much out of luck but it wasn't uncommon at 4 gens left to see 2-3 people vanish effortlessly, robbing a killer of 1/4 to 1/3 of their match. :v: Some killer theory is that the game really starts when there are 2-3 gens left which makes sense given how trivially easy it is to lose 2 or so gens on first chase.

Same reason old moris were removed, it's just a small item fee to casually cut a significant portion of the other team's fair chances away.

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?
Time for the no hit all bosses Elden Ring grind, Otz-senpai.

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?
All of those extra game modes sound great. The game could afford to have two queues for Classic and Random Gimmick Mode.

5v5 in particular sounds hilarious. Running around killing survivors, pass by the other killer, give them a friendly gesture or a sour head shake. :laffo:

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?

Tiny Myers posted:

Okay you can't just say that and not tell us why

Nikumatic posted:



This is one of the default emotes in the game and it's used as the equivalent of teabagging by users spamming it repeatedly, thereby taking a wholesome character performing a wholesome gesture and rendering it with as much sarcastic power as the internet is able. So you get new players or players who aren't terminally online using it sometimes to try to say "good game!" and everyone else using it to say "gently caress you and your entire ancestry you loser noob".

Hearthstone was a good study in how to be as obnoxious as possible to another person with 7 generic emotes and a 2 minute timer. Exact same thing happened with the emotes!

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?
My favorite part of the Otz tunneling video is people reacting in disbelief that killers would check profile hours.

I've bounced around a few competitive gaming scenes as an amateur and spectator. Having an entire minute+ to click and open four steam profiles for simple data is childs play compared to what a fighting game or strategy game community will do for data, lol.

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?
8 Regression Events: Pretty good limit. I'd rather the game end and somebody lose then the killer try to justify why they couldn't seal the deal with 3 pop kicks, 3 pain resonances and 2 surges/regular kicks instead of 9+. If their pressure can't survive 8 kicks per gen then the problem is with the killer.

Boost to Kick Regression: :discourse:

Death of Gen Tapping: :discourse: :discourse:

FoV options: Very rad.

Onryo: Seems rad. Feedback from Onryo players seems to have made it into these considerations vs the uh, Trickster "revamp."

Hillbilly: :eyepop: Is this bad boy about to leave the low tier retirement zone? Never thought I'd see the day. Now if they could touch up Myers at long last... !

Blight: Can't even be mad. Still one of the best killers in the game but having the strongest addons reined in.

STBFL: Enormous nerf. Oh well. We all knew they'd set their sights on it eventually.

Grim Embrace: Rad buff. Seems like a fun combo with Thrilling Tremors.

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?

BitBasher posted:

What makes a killer play lovely besides the obvious tunneling?

"That Wraith" players tunnel like heat seeking missiles as their calling card, so. :v:

Gratuitous slugging is pretty high up there too. Or "take to hatch, close in face." All you can do as the survivor is chuckle and shrug. Yeah, you got me, I hope you feel better about whatever you can't control in your life. :shrug:

Emphasis on gratuitous, I know slugging is a strong tool and some survivor builds make it the only way to win. It's also like how a lot of Pig players have a bad reputation because their most powerful play, shadowing somebody with a hat and downing them mid box, feels absurdly bad to be on the other side of. Likewise Thana Legion/Plague. I can't blame them though.

Basically if the killer stops to let you know they're being lovely then they're lovely. Slugs you and walks around shaking their head. Stuff like that. I'd never take offense that a killer went hard to win but rather that they're sitting there like a sociopathic chimp trying to figure out how to manipulate tools(or in this case limited communication tools) just to let me know they owned me. Just drop me on the hook dude, I know it ain't personal.

Doomykins fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Jan 11, 2024

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?
New Otz Tier List dropped today, vindication for those warning us of the rise of Wraith: Middle of B Tier after an eternity in C Tier!

Blight unchanged because of his base strength, Nemesis almost at C tier as the entire game gets power crept past him and Freddy officially the weakest killer. Looks like Pyramid Head leapt into the big leagues too, though likely from changes to the game since I don't recall him getting any buffs in the last year.

Doomykins fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Jan 14, 2024

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?

Pants Donkey posted:

Oni being A is wild, I feel having essentially no power until your first hit seems like a major handicap to player around, but I guess Ultimate Weapon speeds up that process considerably.

Getting maybe the best power for raw strength in the game certainly makes up for it and "do the entire round without taking even two M1s" is a tall order for survivors. :v:

As a bad Oni player myself if you miss with the power then he's outclassed by the likes of Clown, lol.

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?
I had a spontaneous dumb idea when I was about to go into the classic old lecture about "if they break tunneling/3v1 then they have to seriously buff killers to compensate." Which is still true, killers are driven to the 3v1 strat for good reason given how fast MMR caps out.

My train of thought was well ok, what if you made unhooked survivors inaccessible but they had to sit in a time out? But that's boring for the survivor. Ah, but we're in the serial killer game powered by the infinite sadism of an elder god. So what if being unhooked put you in a brief death trap scenario? Bonus points if hook 3 is an execution/inescapable trap/killer mori without occupying the killer. Maybe tie some gameplay outcomes to failure and success in the trap minigame, though the current system of each failure accelerating your demise(hook stat progress) works too.

Well, we are at the point where BHVR has to innovate in the formula or start over and redo core elements if they want to address the problem and the devs using hard control(Killer can't attack same player because they aren't accessible) works much better than soft control(Killer shouldn't attack same player because it's mean to try too hard to win.)

Doomykins fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Jan 17, 2024

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?
It's the smart thing to do and they changed Adept Killer to require a 4K.

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?

Nessus posted:

At a certain point, what's the point of having all these varied play styles if it's going to collapse down into this?

Despite the very experimental nature of cross map powers like teleporters, Twins, Artist and Nemesis zombies it physically isn't possible for a killer to engage with more than one survivor at a time barring extreme edge cases like "you're Pyramid Head and you down somebody who is on death hook and condemned AND you are immediately chasing the person next to them who jogged beside them or something I dunno." Every killer eventually isolates on one person. They can only obfuscate it so much.

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?
BHVR trying to get me back in with Iron Maiden Doctor. :thunk:

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?
It's good for BHVR to get off their duffs and try new modes but they really need to put a good foot forward on it. Botching the least work-intensive option is some real "we allowed one real dev and some interns from the forced content machine to work on this for a week" energy.

Ideally they can make multiple modes and not dilute the player base by putting them in a rotation with some enhanced one time(for that week/weeks/month) rewards. Real basic engagement driving and fun spice stuff that every other multiplayer game in the world has figured out for over a decade.

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?
How much of it is overly negative gamers are whining and how much of it is the mode feels bad the moment you hop in?

Gamers can really stink but BHVR aren't exactly above the latter.

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?
Perma-Oblivious is a noob shredder, Freddy's teleport is a really slick baby killer booster seat and Freddy's generic snare gets the job done against people who aren't looping well to begin with.

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?
:eyepop: HUNTRESS BUFFS HUNTRESS BUFFS

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?
Insanely bad perk, absolutely ridiculous.

Honeypots 1-4 survivors to the basement, occupied them for as much time as they'd save in the generators themselves, practically throws the match afterwards. What is the appeal? Even if you have SFW organization to set up five generators to nearly done, four man push the invocation out super fast and get a simultaneous 4-5 gen.. ok, now you're guaranteed chain slugs if you don't perfectly coin flip the exit gate?

Huh???

Killer sounds cool tbqh. Power creeps the Dredge but lots of neat ideas.

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?
Alright, only perma-breaking one survivor is almost workable. Still a pretty bad deal.

Medullah posted:

Nah I was just kidding anyway.

The visuals on this chapter are A fuckin tier



This guy rules. :allears:

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?

Medullah posted:

So for those of you that like leaks, there's a guy who's been accurate since Alien and he's saying the next two chapters are

Anniversary will be Vecna from D&D, who inspired Vecna from Stranger Things but is not the same.

After that, Castlevania chapter


Please keep any replies in spoilers since a lot of people here don't like leaks

Not picking up another Stranger Things killer is leaving some serious low effort money on the table. Also a bizarre market and tone mismatch.

... Castlevania? I could buy an original vampire killer but what's this IP bring to DBD?

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?
Otz video up, direct link to the Mori

To each their own but I think they got a hell of an art/modeling/skeleton rigging combo going here. :allears:

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?
There's juuuust enough unifying theme in design to help pitch the idea that maybe there's a physical science reason Unknown exists, a logical and realistic explanation that he's some sort of alien spider monster made of experimental hallucinogenic compound. That maybe any discrepancy can be explained by victims being exposed to a hallucinogen and then the whammy that he's actually not entirely explainable, that he defies physics, that he's supernaturally awful.

The obtuseness is deliberate and it's a clear homage to the weird modern horror ideas of urban legend cryptids/creepy-pasta stories. The real clunkiness is the limitations of "killer must have a unique gameplay hook to not obsolete others on the roster" and what they can do in the engine that has meaningful gameplay feel and function. Even then he looks snappy and fun and I'm half worried that anyone with mild fps experience will find his projection too easy to aim and lead targets with.

BHVR can drag their feet in some areas but killer design isn't one of them. What's their original killer record? Trickster had a mixed reception that was probably more latent homophobia in gamers than anything else, Twins is a great design with the gameplay being a let down, Knight recovered from initial awkwardness and Skull Merchant seems to be one of the only direct misses. From day one with Trapper on the original killers have been well done. It's certainly not a recent trend or anything since you have the likes of Artist, Singularity and Dredge being clear wins.

Doomykins fucked around with this message at 10:57 on Feb 21, 2024

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?

Shaman Tank Spec posted:

I mean those are all valid points. Maybe I'm just out of tune with modern horror cryptid stuff, because while I can see that in the lore, not so much in the gameplay.

Honestly? The big thing for me is the weird proboscis. I don't see how that fits at all.

I'm not the biggest fan of it but I recognize the tone from SCP or Slenderman style stories. It really sounds like a lazy defense but part of the point is that you can't make sense of it. This causes an uncanny valley response. Look at the proboscis and then the mori animation. Unknown is so close to being a physical entity that can be explained.

But to maintain the cryptid logic he cannot be fully explained. Even pure supernatural killers like Spirit, Nurse, Oni, Hag, etc have a thread of logic. Unknown blurs the line because that's part of his genre.

It's like asking why SCP-682 is indestructible or they don't just torch SCP-173. Part of the enjoyment of the IP is accepting the suspension of disbelief. Hell, part of the enjoyment is the thought exercise for explanations and counterpoints.

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?
I think the barnacle is to go with a theme for bio-engineered/fleshy as an art design bandaid. It'd probably look better if that tall neck and head was used to mortar spit it from his mouth.

I also misread UHC as VHS when the original power tooltip hit and thought his theme was generating static and electrical interference. :shobon:

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?

Ibram Gaunt posted:

I do wonder if it doesn't use the head/neck for the projectile since it'd look weird from a first person perspective, the tentacle mouth gives you a clear idea of where you're shooting at in a way that globbing out your mouth wouldn't since your viewbox is not actually where the killer's head is. I think it's not a great compromise but I get the idea behind it I guess.

What if he pulled his head and neck down like a flesh scrunchie so it'd be in position for killer first person view? Just a full compression down to his shoulders with a variety of random BoneCrunch.mp3. :getin:

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?

L.U.I.G.I posted:

My main question is why they don't change the stat of the killer across MMR? Like High player level get better/boosted killer but since they are better player, it should be easier for them and lower-level player get easier killer to ease them in the game?

MMR is often mixed and the longer a queue runs the more the system ignores MMR.

I guess they could pull the averaged MMR of the survivors in the lobby once you enter that part but it'd be really unsatisfying as the weak link survivor to run into a souped up killer that dumpsters you faster and it'd REALLY suck as a killer to find a bunch of limiters on your powers because you're fighting newer survivors, especially on killers that rely on precise muscle memory like Huntress.

Furthermore people already have trouble memorizing everything in the game, wild variations in killer performance tied to invisible numbers you can't accurately look at would compound that badly on both sides.

Also some killers can't be modified much. What do you change for Trapper with his Y/N traps? Time to escape? Billy's saw, do you just make his controls and speed really suck? Demogorgon's portals and lunge, just cut the distance randomly and steal a few max portals from him? All at random, invisible numbers on your end and from 4 other people.

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?

Tiny Myers posted:

Drew the new survivor with her extremely platonic bestie :)



Well done. :3:

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?

Tiny Myers posted:

Maybe people should go a little simpler with their asym games and focus less on star power, more on really nailing a set of solid underlying mechanics. That's all armchair dev stuff, of course, but it feels like these games always get undermined by critical mechanical flaws and teams that don't fix them quickly enough or at all.

The problem is that the capitalist money crunch has pretty much destroyed the idea of AA game development(or AAA devs belting out cool side projects) and games as a service demands an almost unending amount of game dev time and funding even after the thing releases or it's considered dead and buried by both devs and players.

You basically have to hope some indie all stars devote themselves body and soul to a surprise hit, like your Deep Rock Galactics and so on. Any company big enough to step to BHVR doesn't want to unless they can somehow guarantee investors will get perfect returns on investment. Make a fun party game with a strong base and grow a devoted community? No thanks, pump and run if it doesn't virally explode after 2 months! Considering loving Killer Klowns just launched a game that I'd bet money will be abandoned within 2 months I think there really are just a few publishers and investors willing to buy cheap IPs and fire a blindside at DbD and hope something makes it catch. Then again games like Dragonball Breakers are still going, though that's the only one that comes to mind as bucking the trend I just established. There's probably also a few pure indie goofball titles like that one where the aesthetic was everybody as dolls. Seems to be the same problem MMOs had with WoW: it's possible to enter the field, nearly impossible to make the dollars line up if you try to out-muscle the gorilla in the room.

All this and to say nothing of keeping the good talent to nurture and support these kind of games in an industry infamous for overworking and underpaying.

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?
Weak niche perk intended to combo with her ritual perk as a poor defense. The dream is to set up a ritual for that sweet, sweet gen completion and if you get interrupted then bamboozle that stupid killer by self unhooking. Of course I'm not convinced yet that using the ritual perk isn't a net loss to begin with. Going two perks in on hoping the killer is new or kind of dim and doesn't casually two hook you for putting yourself in an obvious basement, or wasting two perk slots to get a pretty bad time trade in exchange for putting loving No Mither on yourself willingly while giving away time to the killer. EHHHHHHHHHH. Really showing the perk design limitations over time here, BHVR.

The basement by design is tougher to escape and easier to significantly delay or remove multiple survivors. Being aware of the killer while unhooking from the basement is largely pointless because the killer is aware of you and you have a long 3+ second jog up the stairs. Also suffers from the typical niche perk problem of "empty slot if it doesn't come up." The best case use of the aura reading is that you see which way the killer is approaching the basement from, the only edge it has over terror radius. Uhhh.. stealth killers BTFO?

Destroyed by running something like Kindred + Deliverance. Sure, Kindred benefits others and Deliverance has a cost and a failure state. They still provide better reliable benefits and Deliverance will actually swing a game and bamboozle a killer for real. Also Wicked has the same failure state as Deliverance so lol.

I guess it'll be cute for the week after Sable release that every killer runs Territorial. :v: But Sable's kit design so far seems to be traps to trick survivors into weakening themselves and playing worse as a way to stealth balance the game?

Doomykins fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Feb 26, 2024

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?

Pants Donkey posted:

What killed Payday 3?

Release barely functional "upgraded" game with worse design decisions(no chat for pre-game planning, lmao Discord has made some devs brain dead), act surprised when people would rather play the existing game. There's a lot of videos about it but here's a snappy one that appeals to my idiot sense of humor.

Doomykins fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Mar 4, 2024

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?
Actually making Huntress S-tier instead of A-tier is a long-standing injustice and furthermore...

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?
The guy sounds like a jerk in victory but "he was down 3 gens so he started forcing kills" seems pretty natural. What other plays do you have with 2 gens left, 8 rotating hooks?

Tunneling can never be vanquished unless there is a hard mechanical disabling put in, literally can't pick up somebody downed after recently hooked. At least their teammates would have to go over and pick them up, I suppose, but it'd really need some core game reworking.

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?
Screenshot for context, two of the Unknowns more expensive and effort spent skins change its gender, or at least the identity of the body it is wearing/cryptiding. Assuming The Unknown is a weird cryptid-bug/unknowable undefinable entity.



The issue is that the most visibly grotesque killer, a parody of a human, swaps genders. Big hmm, BHVR. The tooltip explanation is simply "a woman went missing in a grocery store parking lot" or "a cheerleader went missing" so they're victims of the Unknown.

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Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?
Calm Spirit was always secretly mid and now it's not so secretly good. Scream perks(UW) are everywhere and killers like to forget all the times they lowkey got a subconscious crow hint.

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