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Josh and Maya had rough lives, seems kinda cruel to insist on being so dismissive of their final moments
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Jan 12, 2024 04:23
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| # ? May 6, 2024 00:33 |
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Archer666 posted:Cheap emotional punches are effective on some people. But considering the person I quoted seems to be questioning the narrative purpose of the scene, as do I and everyone I saw the movie with, I don't think its the intended reason why it stuck with people. So if it left that much of an impression then why lie and say it was forgettable and bland?
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Jan 12, 2024 04:37
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Snowman_McK posted:I think the film's issue is that it's just a little slow and a bit dull in its execution. There's not a lot of energy in it even as we hit the third act. It's surprising since keeping the pressure on was something Edwards did really well in Rogue One. As a result, one ends up thinking about terms like 'cliche' or 'plot hole' or whatever because the film isn't fun, excitin or viscerally engaging I don't think you could possibly call this film slow; it's so breathlessly fast that like you say, incredibly nasty concepts are just rattled off and the viewer is left to put the pieces together themselves about the US having rolled their megatanks northwards through villages from the moment Howell calls for backup until they show up. Cacator posted:What did it achieve from a narrative perspective? Josh (no relation) is an absolute dummy who spends the entire film thinking his revolutionary girlfriend will take him back if he brings her back her prized possession (a robot that looks like their dead kid who as well as being a complete independent person happens to be of immeasurable material and spiritual worth to everyone else he meets). The truth, that he betrayed her and their kid resulting in their deaths, is so hard for him to accept that he literally can't remember it. The climactic reveal is that he didn't even get his girlfriend killed right and so as karmic punishment he has to do it again properly. In an act of absolute cynicism events conspire such that in the final moments of his life he sees his 'girlfriend' (a broken, disorientated facsimilie with her face) in 'heaven' (a giant, collapsing monument to empire that happens to have some wheat in it) and experiences an entirely unearned (as in he, personally does not deserve it) sense of closure.
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Jan 12, 2024 10:53
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i can't stop thinking about the gag of this guy being haunted by his dead wife's face, visiting her home country and always seeing her out of the corner of his eye, just out of reach, beyond glass, on the other train...no literally everyone here has her actual face.
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Jan 12, 2024 17:13
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Snowman_McK posted:I think the film's issue is that it's just a little slow and a bit dull in its execution. There's not a lot of energy in it even as we hit the third act. It's surprising since keeping the pressure on was something Edwards did really well in Rogue One. As a result, one ends up thinking about terms like 'cliche' or 'plot hole' or whatever because the film isn't fun, excitin or viscerally engaging Rogue one is a weird example since disney hired a second guy to direct reshoots and re-edit the movie.
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Jan 12, 2024 17:47
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Really bizarre stuff goes uncommented-upon - like the reveal near the end that, despite his ‘inner growth’ as a person, nothing that the protagonist did actually went against America’s interests at all. Or the interesting plot point that he remembers nothing about his wife except literally the scattered images in the prologue. You can list all kinds of stuff in the movie that’s just fuckin’ bonkers. He doesn't consciously remember much, but he is able to locate and navigate the hidden tunnels that — according to his own recollection — he shouldn't know exist. So what's up with that? Is he able to guess at the tunnels entrance because he's roughly familiar with how Nirmata's operates? Or was this stuff he actually knew that he's repressed? Josh(poster) mentions how Josh(movie) is an absolute dummy, but if anything that seems like an understatement. He seems barely aware of his own internality, not so much driven as compulsed. His behavior is more robotic than the actual robots! Which I guess makes his ultimate turn against the Americans just another human coding error. edit: rewrote this Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Jan 15, 2024 |
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Jan 12, 2024 19:55
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I don’t understand what makes the brief reunion ‘cheap’. Is the problem just people actually don’t want sentimentality? The reunion is not contrived, it’s clearly been setup throughout the film. It is, however, clearly emotional and sentimental.
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Jan 12, 2024 22:26
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I would argue from the perspective of the characters, only Joshua's emotions really make sense. For Maya her last memory is Joshua betraying her and the cause she is the leader of. The robot clone should still be actively pissed at Joshua.
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Jan 14, 2024 16:08
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Simplex posted:I would argue from the perspective of the characters, only Joshua's emotions really make sense. For Maya her last memory is Joshua betraying her and the cause she is the leader of. The robot clone should still be actively pissed at Joshua. I believe the implication is that Maya had some awareness of her surroundings while in the coma, so the clone would know that Joshua came back. At the very least, the clone was alive long enough to figure out that NOMAD was in the process of being destroyed, the rebels won, and Joshua was somehow responsible.
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Jan 15, 2024 01:47
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:I believe the implication is that Maya had some awareness of her surroundings while in the coma, so the clone would know that Joshua came back. At the very least, the clone was alive long enough to figure out that NOMAD was in the process of being destroyed, the rebels won, and Joshua was somehow responsible. It's pretty muddled, but none of the other transfers seem to work that way. Plus the conversation in the temple I thought was pretty much she's brain dead and has been that way since the attack in the opening. The robots are just unable to take her off of the life support machines. Either way, I think there's kind of a spiritual view in the ending that doesn't exactly come from nowhere, but isn't really very well developed either. Instead of robot buddhism being this thing that's established that explains the ending, you're kind of left with "well nobody said a robot buddhist can't play basketball."
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Jan 15, 2024 03:14
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There is no other depicted transfer of a long-term coma patient, so it's not given that their "reproduction" would realize the last ~30 minutes of their conscious experience or whatever. As such, it's through dysfunction that a deeply dysfunctional family manages to overcome their socio-political impossibility.
KVeezy3 fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Jan 15, 2024 |
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Jan 15, 2024 03:36
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I just realized we're using spoiler tags when it's already page 9. If you're reading this far, just go watch the movie!Simplex posted:It's pretty muddled, but none of the other transfers seem to work that way. The mind-copying tech straightforwardly just copies a dude's mind (including the moment of death, in this case). The only pertinent issue is that the quality/viability of the copy depends on how recently the death has occurred. Maya's copy is different from that other guy's because her death was both recent and peaceful/painless. Simplex posted:Either way, I think there's kind of a spiritual view in the ending that doesn't exactly come from nowhere, but isn't really very well developed either. The ending simply exists, depicting plenty of loaded imagery of life, death, rebirth, artifice, etc. 'Developing it' through reading is up to you. The title of the movie is "The Creator". So, like, we have the antagonist who's presented as a twisted figure of motherhood who use the mind-copying technology to create a new being who exists only to suffer for her benefit. The cloned dude exists briefly, in pain, calling out for his wife - much like the robot did in the earlier mass-grave scene, where Joshua dismissed him as only an imitation of humanity. The antagonist uses the same technology on Maya, we can presume, for the similar goal of creating a new being solely to be tortured for information. Joshua, at this point in the film empathizes with the robots, and refers to this act of bad creation as "playing God". So, what happens instead,? A Maya clone is ultimately created, through what we could call 'play', by a character literally named God. But the difference, of course, is that Alpha is also literally a child, who - not to be too uncharitable to her - wields this disturbing power innocently in the same way that the dog and monkey play with explosives earlier in the film. The Maya clone's creation ends up being bungled, half-accidental, and brief - but also happy, for whatever that's worth. And the question of 'what that's worth' is probably the biggest one raised by the film. Is the purpose of life simply to be happy? Do we interpret the ending cynically (that this is a pleasant illusion in a manufactured heaven)? Or can we see more in Maya 2's brief existence than just happiness? I would say that there is something even heroic in her decision to go to comfort the nearest person rather than freak out due to the impending danger or whatever. But that part's up to you. "We seem to be made to suffer," says C3PO. "It's our lot in life."
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Jan 15, 2024 06:27
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Fleeting meeting above the earth with a dead wife. Doesn’t mean anything. What’s the point? By the way I have never heard the word “angel”.
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Jan 15, 2024 07:54
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josh04 posted:In an act of absolute cynicism events conspire such that in the final moments of his life he sees his 'girlfriend' (a broken, disorientated facsimilie with her face) in 'heaven' (a giant, collapsing monument to empire that happens to have some wheat in it) and experiences an entirely unearned (as in he, personally does not deserve it) sense of closure. Nobody deserves heaven, but this particular guy happens to be a sincere convert and martyr. hard to imagine anyone more eligible
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Jan 15, 2024 07:59
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From a certain perspective, the last act is a fever dream of how a guy like him could possibly ever be eligible and the answer is do space-9/11.
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Jan 15, 2024 09:32
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What a boss movie
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Jan 15, 2024 11:38
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josh04 posted:From a certain perspective, the last act is a fever dream of how a guy like him could possibly ever be eligible and the answer is do space-9/11. Much more The USS Cole no? The USS Nomad is a legit target rather than civilian one?
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Jan 16, 2024 00:16
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Total Meatlove posted:Much more The USS Cole no? The USS Nomad is a legit target rather than civilian one? What about the Pentagon
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Jan 16, 2024 03:18
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Total Meatlove posted:Much more The USS Cole no? The USS Nomad is a legit target rather than civilian one? It's the highjacking a plane that gives it that evocative edge.
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Jan 16, 2024 09:44
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| # ? May 6, 2024 00:33 |
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Watched this finally as I catch up some of the 2023 sci fi. Overall I enjoyed it and glad I watched it, but I think I liked the imagery and world more than the plot. Some thoughts: -Would this have been better set in South America? Probably less questions about what China and American allies are doing while America launches missiles in their backyard. -Jon David Washington was mixed for me. I liked him better in Tenet. -The whole lend your face to ai was strange and I feel like there is a theme or metaphor I’m missing. Ai tools today are very good at creating random human faces so donating wouldn’t be needed. Plus it’s typically a big fear of having copies of us replace us (clones, androids, whatever). So why give your exact face? Interesting choice. -The ai state they don’t want to hurt humans (unlike humans), but the ai cops will shoot at cars full of kids or place bombs into an ice cream delivery to an apartment with kids in it. Just as bad as the humans. I guess future ACAB. - ai freedom seems suspect. First they all apparently have a prime directive of not being able to harm Nirmata, which doesn’t sound like freedom even with humans out of the way. Then Alphie, their machine good can just control them. Watch out for those teenage years. - Silliest scene for me was when Drew looks at alphie with a flashlight and pen for a minute or two and declares that Alphie can control machines and as he grows he will be able to control any machine including Nomad. Needed exposition but hell of an extrapolation. - Nomad was cool and I wanted to see more of it. They grow food there and have tons of ai bodies. Surprising they didn’t want Alphie tech to control all machines. - Josh married a woman and nearly fathered a kid with her in New Asia but he never learned any of their languages. Dang please try more as a boyfriend and agent. But his reunion with Maya bot at the end was nice even though his space suit prevented the true running hug embrace. - finally this film made me think of Spielbergs AI as both had that first of a kind ai kids being escorted by adults. The different worlds are interesting as a comparison. In AI there’s no active war, it’s just a given humanity is doomed with a climate crisis. Here though the American military states that the humanity is doomed with all the ai bases and weapons are not killed, but we know that like the war on terror, such exaggerations are about control rather than truth.
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Feb 4, 2024 02:50
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