Frieren: Beyond Journey's End (Anime)

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Sydin: Oct 29, 2011; Another spring commute

Hey I finally caught up with this show and the analysis is in: it's good.

goddamn he's just like me fr.

# ¿ Mar 2, 2024 06:03

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# ¿ May 22, 2024 19:04

Sydin: Oct 29, 2011; Another spring commute

Yeah the writing does a lot of straight cyclical callbacks where past person says the same thing as present person, so the parts like that where it explicitly does a contrast instead stand out all the better. I appreciate how off the cuff the anime is able to show not tell that by liking Frieren, I do not like Serie.

# ¿ Mar 2, 2024 08:31

Sydin: Oct 29, 2011; Another spring commute

idk the author's background but as somebody who's spent a long time going through the IT cert mill Frieren's whole "hell they change the professional certification standards every other century, you think I can keep up with that poo poo?" gripe hit pretty close to home, lol.

# ¿ Mar 4, 2024 19:34

Sydin: Oct 29, 2011; Another spring commute

PlaneGuy posted:

I love how all the mages have their own fighting styles with beams and elemental attacks and frieren v frieren is literally throwing black holes, worlds colliding, creation of the cosmos poo poo at each other it's so gorgeous and absurd in relation

And all of it comes after her using nothing but basic offense and defense magic for 25 episodes beforehand. Every time you think you've got a grasp on just how truly powerful Frieren's magic is, it turns out no actually it's even more powerful than that.

That said, what I like about the magic system of this series best is that no matter how powerful the magic, it has some manner of weakness or exploit and you might just end up running into somebody who's otherwise way weaker than you but happens to match up well or has more ideal conditions than you and so you're hosed. Frieren is throwing around super novas and force pushes that are so old it's not even being detected as being magic by other mages but even she's convinced she'd get her rear end kicked by Kanne if they happened to fight in the rain.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2024 00:39

Sydin: Oct 29, 2011; Another spring commute

In a world where magic is powered by one's ability to visualize the magic actually doing the thing you want it to do, it's an advantage in some cases to be ignorant of certain things that would otherwise prevent that thing from happening. Kinda reminds me of Mysticism magic in the Elder Scrolls where the whole point of the school is that you need to embrace the illogical and impossible and then manifest them.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2024 04:08

Sydin: Oct 29, 2011; Another spring commute

Sein was also heading north albeit to a different city, and his whole journey was about trying to find his friend who also went north. It's not implausible that at some point in the journey he'll link back up with Frieren and company.

Yawgmoft posted:

She instinctively knew Sein's screentime was something that could be cut

# ¿ Mar 9, 2024 19:09

Sydin: Oct 29, 2011; Another spring commute

Centzon Totochtin posted:

Another cool bocchi to frieren connection is that Kita and Ubel have the same VA

Omelettes exist to be blessed.

# ¿ Mar 10, 2024 06:22

Sydin: Oct 29, 2011; Another spring commute

The funniest part is that it was obvious from like, the start of the manga that Naruto was the kid of the ninja president based on ninja mount rushmore but Kishimoto tried to pretend that wasn't the case for over a decade before having to go actually lol yeah it was.

# ¿ Mar 10, 2024 09:32

Sydin: Oct 29, 2011; Another spring commute

VideoWitch posted:

I think Ubel is meant to be if not a deconstruction then at least a play on the character archetype of "Murderer who is also taking the Exam", like Hisoka in the Hunter Exam. Like yeah she's totally willing to kill but she doesn't actually seek it out just because she likes killing or something

I mean, there's also that the exam itself is psychotic. The first challenge was designed to tacitly encourage teams to try and kill one another, and the second challenge is essentially "you ultimately have to swallow your pride, either to work together with others or break the bottle and save yourself, else you die." You'd think the mage's association would want more first class mages - not less - and yet the whole test seems to be set up as a meat grinder that just pointlessly imperils skilled mages. Ubel may be somewhat blase about killing, but if so she doesn't seem that different from somebody like Genau in that regard.

# ¿ Mar 10, 2024 20:26

Sydin: Oct 29, 2011; Another spring commute

Gully Foyle posted:

Why though? The whole point is that a first class mage should be able to take care of themselves in extremely dangerous situations - if they let more through that would just die in a random dungeon (where they don't have escape vials etc), it dilutes the whole concept. More 1st class mages isn't inherently good if they suck at doing the jobs a 1st class mage is needed for.

As for imperiling mages, it's not like you are forced to become the top ranking of mage or anything. If you don't want to risk your life, why are you trying for that ranking? The people at ranks 2 or 3 seem more than skilled enough to do a huge variety of jobs or to do magical research or to teach lower levels - basically they can do anything that isn't high level dungeon diving.

There's a lot more to magic than fighting though, meanwhile it seems like the tests have been focused implicitly around feats of combat ability. Yeah the tests themselves have been "capture a bird" and "get to the bottom of the dungeon" but to do those things you ended up needing to be pretty drat good at fighting. Granted this makes sense since Flamme's master is the one ultimately running this whole thing and Flamme herself said she was a bloodthirsty person who had no interest in an age of peace. The result is imo there's a sinister air that hangs over the whole association in general and the first class tests in particular, and it's kinda funny how they then turn around and think Ubel is creepy when honestly she seems to be the one closest to their wavelength.

# ¿ Mar 10, 2024 20:44

Sydin: Oct 29, 2011; Another spring commute

VideoWitch posted:

I mean it's not a mystery why the Mage Association is structured the way it is. It's because Serie is only interested in working with the most powerful mages, so the system is designed to weed out the people she would have no interest in.

Right, and in that regard Ubel's probably the closest to the actual Association philosophy in that she seems primarily interested in using the test as a means to obtain new and stronger magic, which again makes it funny that Sense thinks she's an alien and the Association has already booted her from an exam.

Lt. Lizard posted:

But why would you become a first class mage, if you are not interested in combat and using magic for fighting though? As far as we know, the entire point of first class mages is that they are the best at fighting and thus are able to go alone in the most dangerous places on the continent with expectations that they survive. That's the whole reason why Frieren and Fern want to become one in the first place. So if you just want to chill and study magic in peace, why would you ever take the first class exam? It's not like you are limited in non-combat endeavors by not being a first class, that's the whole point of Denken - he decided to focus on politics instead, and became more influential and powerful than any first class mage.

Yes I agree that the first class mage designation is clearly built around being good at combat magic. But the reason it's that way is (again, presumably) because of Serie's own philosophy and the result is a brutal test that imperils even really skilled people who take it.

Anyway all I was ever trying to say was just that I think it's funny Ubel is hyped up as so scary and alien by Sense when she's really the only one who's on the wavelength of what the Association is implicitly looking for with these kinds of test. She explicitly contrasts with someone like Denken, who outwardly seems to conform much more to the standard powerful association type but in reality he thinks the "learn any spell you want" prize is bullshit like Frieren and has already cultivated wealth and status without first class recognition.

# ¿ Mar 10, 2024 21:16

Sydin: Oct 29, 2011; Another spring commute

Ubel has a whole magic that only works if she manages to empathize with somebody which means she isn't a sociopath or anything, at least not in the textbook sense. If anything she actually seems really good at picking up what actually makes people tick, and yeah I think is hanging around with Land not just because she wants to be able to copy his broken as gently caress magic but also because she thinks it's funny just how detached he is and is enjoying that she's getting an actual challenge trying to make him open up.

# ¿ Mar 11, 2024 17:55

Sydin: Oct 29, 2011; Another spring commute

I love that Serie is just a petty rear end in a top hat who fails Frieren because she's still mad that she said the wrong thing to her in a conversation near a millennium ago. Also she's a hypocrite who'll go off on a big rant about how suppressing your mana is dumb bullshit only idiots would train to do... while suppressing her mana so well nobody's ever noticed besides Fern. Not to mention that for all her talk of how the most important ability for a mage is their imagination, she herself is incapable of imagining anything outside of her own extremely narrow view of what a mage should be, scorning anybody with a different perspective as a failure.

This show is really good at giving extremely strong characterization to characters in minimal screen time.

# ¿ Mar 17, 2024 06:52

Sydin: Oct 29, 2011; Another spring commute

usenet celeb 1992 posted:

Honestly if you want the deception to be perfect you gotta fool your friends as well. Possibly *especially* them, if there's any risk of backstabbing among the first-class.

I also think her criticism was more to the effect of "it takes hundreds of years and Frieren could have used that time more productively by gitting gud", but since she's older (perhaps much older) than Frieren maybe she hit some sort of ceiling where it became a "eh, might as well, I have a few hundred years to kill" sort of thing. But since she seemingly didn't employ that as a tactic against demons one has to wonder why (in which case maybe we get back to the backstabbing thing).

idk it comes off a lot more to me like she's salty Flamme and then later by extension Frieren got one up on her mastering a magic Serie either didn't think of or did but thought was pointless and then after both of them left she mastered it on her own but even better-er.

Also considering how Flamme talked about Serie being bloodthirsty and Serie's repeated showings of disdain for people who are meek and passive, I think she might actually welcome one of her first class mages having a go at usurping her because it'd potentially be an interesting fight.

# ¿ Mar 17, 2024 23:17

Sydin: Oct 29, 2011; Another spring commute

I like that the story all the way back from Ep. 2 about Frieren wanting to make sure she creates the perfect field of flowers for Himmel's statue has been recontextualized to somehow be even sweeter. :unsmith:

Quinton posted:

I get the impression that she both has pretty high mana resources for her age (presumably a combo of innate talent and practicing nonstop since she was a tiny child), and she's also an extremely fast caster compared to many mages (iirc Frieren and others have made note of this).

I think there's also an aspect that Fern's natural strengths (mana detection/suppression, more dakka) happen to be things that are really useful in a "kill demons" build, which is what Frieren is hyper-specc'd into and thus she makes a naturally perfect teacher for Fern. And yeah Fern is hella talented: we've been told many times that mana suppression is supposed to take decades if not centuries to master, with the only exceptions being Flamme (arguably the greatest human mage in history) having it mastered by adulthood, and Fern having it mastered by like, age 16.

# ¿ Mar 18, 2024 16:28

Sydin: Oct 29, 2011; Another spring commute

It takes elves at least a couple decades of sitting on the same throne to decide if it's uncomfortable or not.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2024 00:13

Sydin: Oct 29, 2011; Another spring commute

"What's your favorite spell"
"Field of flowers"
"That's dumb, you're dumb"
"Yeah it's pretty dumb, except the time it catalyzed my joining the party that defeated the demon king and bringing peace to the world that part was neat"
"..."
"Anyway have fun not failing my student because she kicks too much rear end, later"

# ¿ Mar 21, 2024 02:23

Sydin: Oct 29, 2011; Another spring commute

Yeah like if you were operating on a lifespan such that you've lived through the rise of the Indus Valley civilizations through to modern day and you're still nowhere close to dying from old age the way you'd perceive societal shifts and events would be extremely skewed. "Oh no there's a horrible famine killing millions" big loving deal, you know how many of those I've seen? People bounce back.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2024 20:43

Sydin: Oct 29, 2011; Another spring commute

Good finale, good anime.

# ¿ Mar 23, 2024 08:52

Sydin: Oct 29, 2011; Another spring commute

As somebody who's weight fluctuates quite a bit (and keeps accidentally throwing things into the wash on hot) gimme a spell that lets me resize any article of clothing up or down a size. Gained/lost 20lb? Just zap the wardrobe into fitting instead of having to pack it up and break out the boxes of other clothes.