Aviation Megathread 10-9: The Kids Are All Rote

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Aviation Megathread 10-9: The Kids Are All Rote

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Bob A Feet posted:

Well, if you fail out of flight training you can either go drive a ship or be a grunt!

Does the navy still not get you a civilian ship driving license?

For sometime one of the funnier pieces of trivia was that if you wanted a post military merchant marine career the army was the service that could do the easiest transition.

# ¿ Oct 12, 2023 16:21

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# ¿ May 22, 2024 00:11

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

^^^ FedEx also has IR countermeasures on some aircraft.

CBJSprague24 posted:

He also got one count of tampering with an aircraft, which is another felony.

But he wasn�t charged with the coolest sounding crime

hobbesmaster fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Oct 24, 2023

# ¿ Oct 24, 2023 00:03

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/lo...9b-825c3d072312

quote:

Off-duty pilot who tried to cut off plane's engines midflight said it was his first time using psychedelic mushrooms, affidavit says

Off-duty pilot Joseph Emerson initially gave no indication anything was wrong, but then told the on-duty pilots "I'm not okay" before trying to stop the engines

PORTLAND, Ore. � The off-duty Alaska Airlines pilot accused of attempting to shut down the engines on a plane midflight also allegedly attempted to open an emergency door after he was removed from the cockpit. He warned flight attendants at one point that they should handcuff him, and later said that he had taken psychedelic mushrooms, according to a federal affidavit filed Tuesday.
When police interviewed 44-year-old Joseph Emerson after the plane was diverted to Portland on Sunday, he told them he thought he was having a "nervous breakdown" and had not slept in 40 hours. He denied taking any medication, according to the affidavit, but told police he became depressed six months ago and talked to an officer about the use of psychedelic mushrooms, stating that it was his first time taking mushrooms.
"I didn't feel okay. It seemed like the pilots weren't paying attention to what was going on. They didn't... it didn't seem right," Emerson told police, according to the affidavit. He later added "I pulled both emergency shut off handles because I thought I was dreaming and I just wanna wake up."
It's unclear whether Emerson was actively under the influence of psychedelic mushrooms during the flight; the affidavit does not mention any evidence one way or the other beyond Emerson's own comments to police.

Protip: don�t try and use mushrooms instead of ~~antidepressants~~, the approved FAA drug for mental illness: alcohol

# ¿ Oct 24, 2023 20:43

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Aren�t the T-handles a fuel cut off and discharging a bottle a separate action?

Though, I�ll believe anything you tell me about a CRJ.

# ¿ Oct 24, 2023 21:06

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Rolo posted:

Wasn�t it an ERJ-175?

If it was a CRJ, the fire buttons and bottle buttons are separate. Assuming it�s the same design as the challenger I used to fly, which I think it is, pressing the fire button while the engines aren�t at idle/cutoff is super duper bad for the fuel system and can start fires that weren�t there before.

I meant to refer to the Comair comment.

# ¿ Oct 25, 2023 01:40

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Rolo posted:

When I worked at FSI we had an instructor that, during recurrent, liked to give you a flock of birds on takeoff that would kill an engine and light the other on fire. Every so often a guy would grab the glowing handle without thinking and whelp here comes the red screen.

�I can�t believe everyone has trouble with this,� says instructor Sully Sullenberger.

# ¿ Oct 26, 2023 03:37

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Those error conditions remind me of MYX-9001 which is ridiculous from start to finish.
https://avherald.com/h?article=4b57c3dd

Basically they were doing touch and go�s in an A320 training a group of FOs and there was a flight control computer error that needed a reset each time they landed. This reset was allowed in procedures, but that was probably written with the implicit assumption that you wouldn�t be doing touch and go�s. Eventually this resulted in a crazy edge case where they lose both flight control computers:

quote:

. At 15:05:15, the student released the orders on the sidestick while pitch attitude was still 0.3� Nose Up and the aircraft was airborne. The instructor was close to full Nose Up sidestick deflection (this position was kept for 14 seconds) and giving side stick roll position commands +5 and -5 degrees.

Four seconds later, while the aircraft was approximately 950m from the end of the runway 08, flying with the airspeed of 190 kt, at 19 ft, pitch attitude maximum of 2.8� Nose Up was reached, thrust levers were moved to IDLE and the flap lever was moved from CONF2 to CONF1, moving the flaps from conf. 2 to 1+F.

At 15:05:21 the instructor commanded �gear up� and the gear lever was selected to GEAR UP position. Two seconds later the aircraft reached its maximum altitude over the runway � 48ft and started to descend. The pitch attitude was 0.3� Nose Up, THS remained in 1.5� Nose Up position, and thrust levers were set back to TOGA.

While the landing gear was in transit, the aircraft hit the ground with aircraft engines approximately 200m from the end of the runway at 15:05:28 with the vertical acceleration of 2,85 g. The pitch attitude was 0.7� Nose Up. The airspeed was 192 kt. Two seconds after the impact, the airspeed increased to 206 kt, the pitch attitude to 9,1o Nose Up and the aircraft started to gain altitude at 6000 ft/min.

Seven seconds later, a FLAPS LOCKED and an ENGINE 2 FIRE were triggered with a MASTER WARNING and audio CRC. The aircraft was at 337 ft, the airspeed was 207 kt and the pitch attitude 19.3� (reaching its maximum of 21.8� pitch up at 15:05:38).

At 15:05:42, while the aircraft was in climb and the instructor still applying sidestick inputs in roll and pitch axis (and continued doing this until the end of the flight), the safety pilot declared �Manual pitch trim only, manual pitch trim only� (reads from PFD display). The Pitch attitude was 20,4�, and the altitude was increasing. The THS moved to 0.9� Nose Down, when the crew started to control the pitch of the aircraft by moving the THS with the pitch trim wheel and by engine thrust, by moving the thrust levers to 17� and then to IDLE. The pitch started to decrease.

At 15:05:53, the airspeed was 144kt the aircraft reached maximum height of 1590 ft the pitch started to decrease rapidly and the aircraft started to lose altitude.

The aircraft went into a dive, descending at 7200 ft/min. The instructor moved the thrust levers to 42� (TOGA) and five seconds later started to move the THS towards 4.2� nose up. The pitch attitude reached 25.7� nose down before increasing again. The aircraft reached a minimum height of 596 ft at 15:06:04 and normal acceleration reached +2,44 g. During this part of the flight, in addition to the existing MASTER WARNING, audio CRC and warning messages, several TAWS alerts were triggered SINK RATE, PULL UP, TERRAIN-TERRAIN and TOO LOW, TERRAIN.

At 15:06:23, as the instructor managed to stabilize the trajectory of the aircraft at an altitude around 1200ft and airspeed around 155kt by sidestick inputs on roll, and trim and thrust inputs on pitch axis. The instructor asked �Do we have engines� to which the safety pilot replied �We have engine two fire�.

At this point, the aircraft had L+R ELEVATOR FAULT (ELAC 1 PITCH FAULT, ELAC 2 PITCH FAULT, SEC1 and SEC2 lost control in pitch), pitch control in MECHANICAL BACKUP MODE, roll in DIRECT LAW, yaw in ALTERNATE LAW, engines 1 and 2 damaged from the impact, engine 2 on fire, flaps inoperative (FLAPS LOCKED).
�

Around 15:08:50, the safety pilot suggested moving the engine 2 lever to idle because of the fire. Instructor confirmed, but stated: �If I am losing (an engine) and manual flying, I prefer (to land) when engines are working�. The thrust lever was moved to idle, but 3 seconds later it was moved back to the previous position to keep the engine working while flying the aircraft manually.

At 15:09:00 the instructor requested: �Gear down�.

At 15:09:19, engine 2 spooled down following a 100 second fire alarm and ECAM message ENG 2 FAIL. The Safety pilot informed: �Engine two is shut down�.

Twelve seconds later, the Instructor stated �Gear is down, flaps three�, to which the safety pilot stated �speed is checked, flaps three�, moving the slat/flap lever to position 3.

At 15:09:39, engine 1 spooled down. Both CVR and FDR stopped recording.

As the RAT automatically deployed, the CVR started recording again at 15:09:54. At this point the aircraft had lost electrical power in buses AC and DC1 and 2, electrical power in RH primary flight display (PFD) and navigation display (ND) and cabin light.

The safety pilot states: �Gear is down. We don�t have engines� and starts reading the speed indication from the LH PFD to the instructor. At 15:09:56 �Speed 150�, at 15:10:00 �Speed 130�, At 15:10:02 �Speed 120�.

Approximately 15:10:12 the aircraft touched down hardly 150m before the runway threshold, burst all tires, decelerated on the runway and veered off stopping close to the left runway edge (20). During the impact, safety officer and one student suffered minor impact trauma.

# ¿ Oct 26, 2023 05:37

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Can we get rid of the FFDO program or at least convert it to explicitly being a honeypot for people that shouldn�t be in command of planes or guns?

quote:

A pilot has been indicted for allegedly threatening to shoot the plane's captain if the captain diverted the flight because of a passenger who needed medical attention.

A grand jury in Utah issued the indictment against Jonathan J. Dunn on Oct. 18 over an incident that happened in August 2022, charging him with interference with a flight crew, according to federal court records.

The Transportation Department's inspector general's office said in an email sent Tuesday that Dunn was the first officer, or co-pilot, on the flight and was authorized to carry a gun under a program run by the Transportation Security Administration.

�After a disagreement about a potential flight diversion due to a passenger medical event, Dunn told the Captain they would be shot multiple times if the Captain diverted the flight,� the inspector general's office said.

The inspector general described Dunn as a California pilot. It did not identify the airline on which the incident occurred, saying only that it was a commercial airline flight. The office did not give the flight's intended route, or whether it was diverted

Bonus:
https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/3272130-supreme-court-wont-shield-airman-from-punishment-over-vaccine-refusal/

quote:

The Supreme Court on Monday ruled against an Air Force reserve officer who asked the justices to shield him from disciplinary action over his religious-based refusal to get the COVID-19 vaccine.
Lt. Col. Jonathan Dunn was removed from his command and faces additional punishment over his refusal to comply with the militarywide health policy that was implemented last August.

# ¿ Nov 1, 2023 03:47

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

The last couple times I�ve flown out of MSP I wondered if I was imagining things or if there were more crew members in the TSA pre line and why that�s a thing anyway.

It kinds sounds like the same process for deciding to use the pre line over clear?

(At MSP specifically I assumed it was due to some weirdness with the skyway checkpoint�s lines because I�ve caught more than one crew discussion of that checkpoint vs the others while trekking through the parking structure area.)

# ¿ Nov 3, 2023 18:12

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

azflyboy posted:

The TSA essentially tried to get rid of KCM last year (by simply random-ing everyone), and they're still pissed off that flight crews engaged in some pretty entertaining malicious compliance that forced the TSA to back down.

You�d think that flight crews would be the at the bottom of the list of people you want to pick a malicious compliance fight with.

# ¿ Nov 3, 2023 20:52

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Two Kings posted:

I remember the days when FedEx used to have a spot on their application to log your Space Shuttle piloting time.

You only need one astronaut to apply to need to put that in!

# ¿ Nov 4, 2023 05:38

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Saukkis posted:

So how does that work? Do you log the whole week the shuttle is on orbit? Or do you log only the times you maneuver, rest of the time gravity is doing all the work.

Similarly with airliners, do you log the time you are sleeping in the berth?

ADHD means I can�t fly a plane but I can acquire stupid trivia:
https://www.quora.com/Is-time-spent...n-the-way-there

There is, or perhaps was because I can�t find it now, a public FAA determination (maybe a NASA document?) that had the rules. The ascent is logged as rocket time and all time on orbit and descent as glider.

If you�re wondering if that means ISS astronauts have 4000+ hour single log entries the answer is yes they can claim that. Apparently Jim Voss would tell this story while teaching at Auburn and later Colorado: https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/s/3k4X98v9hz

Continuing with that trivia� there don�t appear to actually be all that many interesting positions for astronauts if they are not selected as main or backup for a mission. Because NASA kept having to pull back plans for more missions for various reasons, there are a fair number of space shuttle commanders and pilots that took their military retirement and did something else. Some became faculty, some did other business stuff, some became test pilots and some did decide they just wanted to just fly an airliner for the next couple decades.

hobbesmaster fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Nov 4, 2023

# ¿ Nov 4, 2023 17:13

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

e.pilot posted:

I assume you need a self launch endorsement to fly the shuttle?

IIRC because all space shuttle commanders/pilots were active military they didn�t bother with that stuff.

# ¿ Nov 4, 2023 17:21

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

azflyboy posted:

The last airline Alaska bought ended up with them paying $2.6 billion for what amounted to a few California gates after they closed Virgins' JFK base and sold the entire fleet, so I'm sure spending $1.9 billion for another airline with a not-Seattle base and a bunch of A321's won't have any problems.

They�re probably already playing American and Delta off each other to sell them at a loss.

# ¿ Dec 4, 2023 01:08

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

https://twitter.com/kxngspade/status/1732847708870680831?s=46

I want to ask a question along the lines of �what do you do if this is your plane� but keep returning to just �what the gently caress� which I guess is technically a question.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2023 04:44

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Here4DaGangBang posted:

I think this is the same dude who cooks poultry and the like in hotels using hair dryers and poo poo? Jesus. 🤢

https://twitter.com/wifesucker/status/1733157216482459743?s=46

Yup.

# ¿ Dec 9, 2023 01:59

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Reddit just covered this!

Unironically: https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/s/RmAScqLuEme

Ironically: https://www.reddit.com/r/Shittyaskflying/s/ATSKGKwDBY

# ¿ Dec 23, 2023 06:05

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

babyeatingpsychopath posted:

There was an "automatic carrier landing system" using some precision radars back in the day.

Since people seemed to like my 5G trivia from a ways back: The Navy actually still has a chunk of prime EM spectrum reserved for it. I don�t think Ford class carriers are even equipped for it.

The Navy was never going to give up EM spectrum but a spectrum sharing setup was created for 3.5GHz:
https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-division/35-ghz-band/35-ghz-band-overview
Each transmitter has to check in with a central server on the internet to see if the navy has said you can�t transmit. Then the UE has to listen before it can talk.

The problem is that in practice the uptime on the spectrum sharing server has had issues which means base stations have to shut down until they get the connection back. One of the main implementations so far is for private cellular networks. In this implementation it�s band 48 and is supported by modern phones including recent iPhones and androids. It�s intended for large campuses like say hospitals, factories and so forth (a company I worked at even did a proof of concept with a sideline communication system at an NFL game) but is unlikely to take off if the spectrum access system isn�t perfect.

# ¿ Dec 26, 2023 16:12

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Arson Daily posted:

They do not. The airplane can certainly auto land but swa loves to remove things from their airplanes that Boeing just puts in by default. Printers, sunshades, the left CDU for a while and auto land are all things swa decided were too expensive to maintain so they just yank them out when they take delivery of a new airplane. Its real dumb

Are you sure it isn�t because

babyeatingpsychopath posted:

From what I remember of it, it worked so well that they had to detune the F-18s implementation because the hook would hit the same spot on deck every single time, causing extremely accelerated wear.

# ¿ Dec 27, 2023 01:59

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

PT6A posted:

No I don't think it's that.

I was thinking of their other carrier, the John Wayne

# ¿ Dec 27, 2023 04:08

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

https://www.reddit.com/r/delta/s/5vYI7FcFQ7

How much artwork do you usually get done during cruise?

# ¿ Dec 29, 2023 21:57

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

CBJSprague24 posted:

Aero Crew News says APA is starting a committee to look at folding American's regionals into mainline itself.

They just had to wait for Bombardier to completely die, huh?

# ¿ Jan 4, 2024 04:43

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

shame on an IGA posted:

it's even funnier that excluding 9/11 would've only dropped the figure from 99.8% to 99.5%, just a completely unnecessary own goal

if they were serious they could've just screnshotted the 3701 transcript

The problem there is that both pilots had well over the new ATP minimums.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2024 05:10

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Phanatic posted:

Sure you're talking about the same flight? 3701 was the one where the two idiots core-locked the engines on their CRJ at 41000'.

Yup, I completely read that as colgan 3407

# ¿ Jan 6, 2024 05:46

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Animal posted:

We dialed up into the internet, opened a website with driving instructions, then we printed them.

The still wilder one to me is phoning up AAA and ordering a triptik for your route.

# ¿ Jan 13, 2024 02:47

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

kathmandu posted:

Yeah the NTSB must be in possession of one of the most horrifying videos of all time - it looks like they were in a steep dive for a fair amount of time, probably alert, confused, and terrified. Oof

It isn�t likely that there will even be a transcript, right? GA reports are rarely large, detailed dockets.

As for the content, that reminded me� There was an off broadway play from the late 90s called Charlie Victor Romeo which was fairly straight reenactments of several incidents and accidents. They did JAL123, the painted static ports crash and Yukla 27. The wild thing is how much worse those choices could�ve been even at the time (we gaan!). It being a �play� also kinda weirded me out for some reason, idkw because fundamentally it�s the same type of reenactment as a documentary.

hobbesmaster fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Jan 13, 2024

# ¿ Jan 13, 2024 03:25

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Sagebrush posted:

You aren't gonna be flying anything with jet fuel for a while I think

Now they�re going to have to go find somewhere with diesel DA-40s or whatever just to prove you wrong.

# ¿ Jan 18, 2024 03:06

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

It appears you can even go off-roading in the bus!

https://twitter.com/thatsillyginge/status/1753881513186185657?s=46

# ¿ Feb 4, 2024 01:50

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Salami Surgeon posted:

That's double what I was expecting. I thought astronauts did not get paid well.

Does AD00 administratively set and not on a scale?

# ¿ Mar 8, 2024 17:19

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

KodiakRS posted:

I'm scratching my head as to what this could be. The only things that require special qualifications for broken equipment are post maintenance or ferry flights and paying passengers are strictly prohibited on those. My guess is that something got lost in translation, maybe a pilot wasn't comfortable flying with a certain system inop based on the circumstances and somehow that ended up getting announced as "the pilots aren't qualified."

Could that have gotten mangled from something requiring a longer flight/longer alternatives which would time them out?

# ¿ Mar 18, 2024 03:45

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Does GNSS jamming usually cause crazy stuff like this or is whatever was turned on last night extra special? (Or is this aircraft �extra special�?)

https://x.com/combat_learjet/status/1779513559787139452?s=46

# ¿ Apr 14, 2024 16:43

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

While weekly runway incursions are terrifying, the audio here is just�

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yooJmu30DxY

�Tower Southwest 2937, I guess we need a phone number�

:discourse:

# ¿ Apr 22, 2024 04:37

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Arson Daily posted:

DCA is such a shitshow. its probably the most threat filled airport i go to and number 2 isnt even close

JFK is trying hard though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW6lAwLy_Os

Note the dates�

# ¿ Apr 22, 2024 05:08

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Kwolok posted:

I can't speak for all aircraft. It is likely much much safer to try fly the plane all the way to the ground to the best of your abilities. If the aircraft is so out of control that you cannot even manage to control it, you likely would never be able to safely exit the aircraft anyway. Especially on big massive airliners/cargo planes, not sure how you would safely exit a plane like that, in theory maybe if you can open the cargo hatch but that feels more action movie than practical. Also, it can be somewhat reckless to abandon a plane over populated areas as that plane can now fly into houses/people on the ground. This is a similar reason why fighter pilots don't punch out until the very last moment. This is also why in some cases pilots do in fact die because they choose to put the plane in the least populated areas as opposed to the safest decision for themselves.

This is drifting off into trivia land that may be better for one of the other aviation threads (AI or the TFR Cold War one which appears to be on a forum safari atm) but has there ever been a bail out from a transport category aircraft which� well, didn�t involve DB Cooper, I�m feeling too lazy to figure out the qualifiers there.

A few airliners, or rather prototypes, special variants and their military derivatives have had special equipment for emergency bailouts. I know some examples include the 747 prototype, the 747 based space shuttle transporter, the P-8 (and P-3 - it�s an Electra). Have any actually been used? The 747 bail out tunnel description I found once sounded about as practical as the ejection seats on the space shuttle orbiter.

# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 00:28

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

That was completely preplanned and a �perfectly fine� aircraft.

I ask because while it is hard to come up with a scenario where it�d make sense to do it and the g forces+pressurization situation actually support it being possible some aircraft/missions have been set up for it.

# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 02:19

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# ¿ May 22, 2024 00:11

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

KodiakRS posted:

A United 232 type situation where you have limited control but not enough to land is the only thing I can think of.

This actually makes perfect sense for the P-8 because that�s not an unlikely failure mode after taking a hit from a missile:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Baghdad_DHL_attempted_shootdown_incident?wprov=sfti1

# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 23:13

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