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mcmagic posted:I thought they were always going to take Stroud and that they were really trading the 1 for Anderson which is what I thought was a bad trade but it looks like he's pretty good PLUS stroud looks good so it sure looks good now. It was a good trade, to me. A new coach and GM are already on a ticking clock so premium players now are worth more than more good players later. They got the top 3 players on both sides of the balls to start the rebuild.
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Oct 9, 2023 21:05
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fsif posted:I wouldn't go so far to say Lawrence has been "mediocre" but I feel like if he switched draft positions with Purdy we'd be talking about the two QBs very differently. If they switch draft positions does Purdy also have to spend a year suffering on the Meyer Jags?
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Oct 10, 2023 17:02
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Bismack Billabongo posted:That’s insane. No he isn’t. Leaving aside how much I like to say Trevor bust just look at the stats man. Purdy is blowing everyone out of the water He’s played 3/4th of one season in total and he’s got the second best offense coach in the game and talent all over the offense. He’s been really good but it’s tough to compare because he’s in a pretty unique situation. Kyle Shanahan made Matt Ryan look like the best QB in the NFL for a season with lesser talent than what the 49ers have now. Ryan was a pretty good QB but he wasn’t as good as he looked in 2016.
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Oct 10, 2023 17:27
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Every Florida game I watched with him involved some variation of “and Richardson gets up a little gingerly and is limping off the field.”
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Oct 18, 2023 18:09
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Relentlessboredomm posted:i mean if things keeping going the same way that's absolutely what's going to happen. they're in line for a top 5 pick right now They still get to play the Bears, Giants, Cousinless Vikings, and Panthers. They’re a bad team but I can’t seem them failing to win two or three more with that schedule, and that probably doesn’t get them Maye or Williams.
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Oct 30, 2023 21:38
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AndrewP posted:god the standard for rookie QBs is so impossibly high these days. I will say interceptions aren't the worst thing for a rookie QB to be doing, at least he's taking chances. He threw two pick sixes on passes within 5 yards of the LoS, it’s not like he was gunslinging and just got burnt. I think his size is contributing to his happy feet because any interior pressure makes it very hard from him to operate in the pocket since he can’t see over or get the ball over the defenders, so he starts farting around looking for clear passing lanes.
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Nov 6, 2023 17:05
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I don’t think Reich gets canned after one year. At best he might be forced to bring in an outside OC.
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Nov 6, 2023 19:10
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Diva Cupcake posted:I know everyone wants to find the next offensive supergenius but that seems insane to me. Even Kevin O'Connell did 3 years as an OC and he was extremely green when he was hired. Mike McDaniel was OC for one year before getting the Dolphins job.
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Nov 6, 2023 19:19
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Diva Cupcake posted:Exception. He's been with Shanahan for like 15 years though. Teams are desperate for coaches that can manufacture offense, Shanavay tree is getting getting picked pretty bare, and there aren’t a lot of obvious candidates coming from other places. I agree it’s a big jump but there’s rarely a safe pick for head coach out there unless you’re content with a Ron Rivera/John Fox type of stable mediocrity.
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Nov 6, 2023 19:26
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C. Everett Koop posted:So I guess the plan is fire Reich/whoever the GM is, take Williams 1st, trade Bryce for a 4th maybe? I hope this is a joke. The Panthers don’t have a first next year.
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Nov 6, 2023 19:26
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I don’t think Bryce is doomed, I think he was a really good player in college and could turn into a good pro, though I think his size is going to be limiting. That said, Stroud looks head and shoulders better right now and it’s not just down to better coaching and talent. He’s still showing the excellent touch and placement he did in college and his supposed weaknesses, processing and creating out of structure, don’t seem to be problems. So right now it seems like Bryce doesn’t have an edge in the mental aspect and Stroud has better physical tools. Both guys will have plenty of time to prove themselves and things could look different in a year but right now it’s very hard to make the argument that Stroud shouldn’t go first in a redraft.
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Nov 7, 2023 01:55
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Mac Jones was basically perfectly average his rookie year. Middle of the pack on basically every meaningful metric.
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Nov 13, 2023 02:09
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Intruder posted:I don't really believe Stroud will win MVP but has any rookie ever done it before? Not since Jim Brown. Mahomes won it in his first year as a starter, but that was his second in the league.
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Nov 13, 2023 06:10
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My favorite thing about Tepper is when he was hired everyone assumed that because he was a minority owner for the Steelers that he’d have learned something and would mostly be hands off and let the football people make football decisions but instead he’s one of the most meddlesome and reactionary owners in the league.
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Nov 21, 2023 22:00
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DeimosRising posted:If Purdy had a more handsome or older looking face, or was slightly taller but absolutely nothing else changed about his game or results, he would be taken much more seriously as a candidate The odds have him as either a slight favorite or a slight underdog to Dak, who is also having a really good season, so I think he’s being taken seriously.
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Dec 15, 2023 01:22
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wandler20 posted:You lose CMC and it's not even close. All you have to do is look at the NFC Championship Game last year. To be fair they were basically down to their 4th QB who literally could not throw the ball. Going from from Purdy to Darnold would be less of a drop off.
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Dec 20, 2023 22:16
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Kirios posted:Is it a good thing that the #1 overall franchise quarterback is being compared to a tiny puppy? Asking for a friend. He’s got that baby dog in ‘im.
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Dec 21, 2023 05:15
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Dec 21, 2023 19:29
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That’s got to be a clockwork orange type situation right?
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Dec 28, 2023 16:44
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Papercut posted:Wow it's pretty impressive Purdy was able to put up the gaudy stats he did without even a Pro Bowl WR. Really carrying that team. If you think that’s impressive, Lamar Jackson is going to win the MVP without any pro bowl skill position players at all!
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Jan 5, 2024 02:49
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IcePhoenix posted:This response made me laugh thank you. His arm isn’t bad, but he really needs to be set to generate drive and he didn’t really have a chance to do that much in Carolina because the line performed poorly. He’s also 5’nothing so he’s going to have to move a lot to finding throwing windows like most other short QBs and that lends itself to him throwing off platform a lot and his throws lose a lot of steam when that happens. Burrow doesn’t have a great arm either but he makes up for it with accuracy and he’s tall enough to actually stand in and make throws in a collapsing pocket so he can get his feet set and generate more drive.
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Jan 8, 2024 18:58
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IcePhoenix posted:I get what you're saying, and it's fair, but when I talk about arm strength I mean the entire process that leads to the end result not the strength of his literal arm. If Young can't execute mechanically to generate the same arm strength as someone else with similar raw strength in a game situation then I don't really care what he can do in shorts. You can go back to last year to find my posts about Bryce’s size being a concern and how his game would translate to the NFL, so I fully agree that ultimately it’s not really material how his arm strength grades coming out if he can’t perform on the field. But he did show acceptable arm strength on the field in games in college so it’s not like it was purely hypothetical. But the margins for everything are tighter in the NFL and that makes his physical deficiencies more stark. Sometimes guys “level up” once they get to the league. Watson was dinged for having an average arm but he always had enough arm strength once he got to the NFL. Bryce looks like he’s just hit a wall, but who knows, maybe with less lovely coaching he could turn it around.
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Jan 8, 2024 20:13
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C. Everett Koop posted:If the Panthers cut Bryce after 6/1, it's 18m dead cap for '24 and 12m dead cap for '25. Given that they're not going to be good next year or the year after next, consider it avoiding sunk cost fallacy and a move they need to make. Even if they don’t play him they’re not going to cut him. He’d get traded or kept on as a backup.
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Jan 8, 2024 20:38
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Waltzing Along posted:What level is brock purdy now? He’s achieved Goffhood.
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Jan 8, 2024 23:25
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Waltzing Along posted:So he's worth a #1 pick now. Not bad. The panthers would sure as hell trade their #1 pick for him, so yea.
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Jan 8, 2024 23:45
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C. Everett Koop posted:The Panthers can either throw Bryce out there for two more years of futility, barring some kind of eventual injury, and tank for high picks in the '25-'26 drafts and hope that someone in one of those two classes emerges as a one-season wonder can't miss QB, a la Cam/Burrow. Or they can acknowledge that Bryce isn't going to get better and that having him on the roster is filling a spot that has more value with quite literally anyone else. If Bryce is the backup and the starter, be it Dalton or Cousins or Carson Wentz or Johnny Manziel or Ryan Leaf or whomever, gets hurt and Bryce is back in then you're back to being sunk. They can either be bad next year with a QB they know is mediocre or be bad next year with the QB that has played one season and at least hypothetically could get better, and who they have to pay whether he’s there or not. There’s no good choice and hoping that Bryce turns it around with a new staff is better than rolling with Dalton and just accepting that the season is a wash.
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Jan 9, 2024 05:31
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Master Stur posted:The Cardinals immediately moved on from Rosen and Im pretty sure a lot of folk here were going through this exact same discussion when it happened. Bryce is bad and its fine to move on from him. Will they land a Murray? Prolly not, but getting any return out of him is better than the negative value he currently brings to the Panthers. Let some other team perform sunk cost gymnastics instead. The Cardinals had the number 1 pick in the draft. If the Panthers had the number 1 pick then yea, absolutely, draft Williams and move on. Unfortunately despite being the worst team in the league they don’t have the number 1 pick because they already spent it on Bryce Young, so they might as well see if they can salvage him.
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Jan 9, 2024 18:52
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fsif posted:I guess it depends on how you define "bounce back," but there really aren't many QBs with terrible rookie seasons that become solid starters or better. This comes up every offseason and you can't get through one hand until you're starting to count QBs that were drafted nearly two decades ago. There’s not many QBs who become solid starters or better, period. The odds of drafting one are quite low. Trading for one happens even less often. These are all low probability events and the Panther’s don’t even have a first round pick so their odds are even worse.
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Jan 9, 2024 19:14
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fsif posted:Nevermind, like, including Jalen Hurts's four-game rookie season or trying to pass off 2023 stats as comparable to 2009 stats. 2009 QB stats are actually pretty comparable to 2023 stats. In 2009 Brees led the league with 34 TDs vs Dak’s 36. Schaub had 4770 yards vs 4624 for Tua. And that’s with the 2023 seasons including an extra game. It was probably a little harder to play QB this year than in 2009.
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Jan 9, 2024 19:49
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fsif posted:They're not comparable. You just took the top performers from each year and arbitrarily chose just two of their numbers. Looking at the the guy ranked 16th in each year they’re comparable on TDs, TD%, Y/G, Y/A. Sack rates are higher in 2023. Completion percentage and INT% are lower, which is probable related to the above in addition to modern schemes simply focusing more on intermediate stuff and high probability passing. 2009 wasn’t exactly the bad old days for QBs, you had some of the most prolific QB seasons ever in that era.
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Jan 9, 2024 20:53
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Master Stur posted:So? Russ was a 3rd round pick. Just go get someone else it literally (not figuratively) can't get worse. Of course it can get worse. Josh Rosen was actually worse. You could pick a guy so bad he never even sees the field like Christian Hackenberg. As bad as the odds are that a guy who has a bad season turns it around the odds of finding a franchise QB in the third round are even lower. Bryce is already paid for, taking another QB that has a really high chance of also being bad and then throwing them out behind a bad o line with the worst receivers in the league isn’t going to solve anything for them. There’s no rush to move on. They’re not missing out on any great opportunity by playing him next year. If he sucks then they’ll at least be in a better spot to draft his replacement.
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Jan 9, 2024 21:00
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fsif posted:Yes, they're comparable in passing yards and passing touchdowns. They're not comparable in completion percentage or interceptions. I’m not arguing that Stafford didn’t have a better rookie season than Bryce, he clearly did, I just think the idea that 2009 was basically like 1985 and that it was so much harder to play QB then is silly. Whatever rule changes have come out to benefit QBs have been offset by the fact that offensive lines simply can’t protect QBs consistently anymore. 2009 is the modern passing era. Drew Brees wouldn’t throw for 6000 yards if he was playing today.
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Jan 9, 2024 21:07
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Forrest on Fire posted:What offense does Alabama run? Is there a transition from college to the West Coast Offense still? Bama has gone through like 5 OCs in the past 8 years, so there hasn’t been a lot of consistency. Bryce’s OC was Bill O’Brien who you can see did a wonderful job with Mac Jones this year.
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Jan 9, 2024 21:39
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Relentlessboredomm posted:Bryce has easily been the worst of the last 4 Bama QBs in his rookie season. But part of that is Bama wins on all world talent and the QBs haven’t been dudes with a great toolset. They’re mostly there to manage the offense. Ehhhh, we’re really past the Greg McElroy era at Bama. Tua was and Bryce were both a cut above those guys and definitely pulled their weight in those offenses. Bama had a run of really good WRs but their O lines haven’t been dominant for a while and they haven’t had a special running back since Henry.
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Jan 9, 2024 21:42
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fsif posted:Man what on earth? How are you contorting "Matthew Stafford's 2009 stat line looks worse by 2023 standards" to "Drew Brees would pass for 6000 yards today?" If it was so much harder to play QB in 2009 then surely all of the top QBs from that era would easily outperform their 2009 numbers right? Why wouldn’t the numbers go up? It’s easier to get completions and throw fewer ints, that’s got to translate into more yards, TDs, etc.
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Jan 9, 2024 21:52
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wandler20 posted:Are we really just going to ignore Jahmyr Gibbs, Najee Harris, and Josh Jacobs? Hell, guys like Damien Harris, Bo Scarbrough, and Brian Robinson were all very good at Alabama. I’m absolutely going to ignore Najee Harris, who sucks. Jacob’s had less yards in his 3 year Bama career than Henry had in one season. Gibbs only had 150 carries in his Bama career, which lasted 1 year. Those other guys were decent players on a very good team but none of them could carry an offense. Bama has become VERY dependent on passing the ball in the past 10 years and they need QBs who are a cut above game manager to do that. Bama wouldn’t get anywhere with a JJ McCarthy under center.
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Jan 9, 2024 21:57
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wandler20 posted:Harris was a beast at Alabama, sure he sucks as a pro but that's not what we're talking about. Gibbs one year was incredible, 1370 yards, 7 yards per touch, 10 TDs. Alabama still gets great production from running the ball because Milroe sure didn't carry the team this year with his arm. Milroe actually starting to use his legs was a big reason the offense started functioning. He accounted for 12 of their rushing TDs and was their third leading rusher. Whatever you want to call him he was definitely not a game manager. Najee got to play RB for Bama teams that were some of the most prolific ever in terms of passing offense. He benefitted a ton from the fact that his offenses were putting up like 350 passing yards a game.
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Jan 9, 2024 22:30
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fsif posted:No. Not at all. What? It's not a matter of debate; literally, completion percentages were lower and interception numbers were higher in 2009. It didn't translate to dramatically more TDs or yards. Okay, so the eras are in fact comparable in some important respects but it’s good to be aware of the differences when comparing them. That sounds very different than “you cannot compare these things.” It’s not like a bad season in 2023 would actually be a good season in 2009 or whatever. They’re broadly comparable.
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Jan 9, 2024 22:36
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Master Stur posted:The rush is that getting a starting caliber or whatever cut-off we want to draw for a SB winning capable QB is a complete dice roll in the draft. If the Panthers want to take the Rams approach and eventually trade for one after building up a team then sure. But if the guy you have clearly is a bust then you should cut bait and keep rolling the dice in the draft. The panthers under Tepper dont seem like theyre capable of doing what the Rams did so what else are you gonna wait around for? Another 1st OVA bust from the Bama hype machine? It’s not a complete dice roll unless you’re playing with weighted dice. Early picks are more likely to pan out than later ones. And there’s got to be a match between player and situation. The Panthers are a terrible landing spot for a rookie right now. Instead of ruining another rookie by shoving him into a roster with no talent they could actually try to get some decent WR talent and fix their o-line so that maybe whoever they pick next has a chance.
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Jan 9, 2024 22:43
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Master Stur posted:I just dont really buy into this notion that picking earlier is all that critical in regards to how a QBs pans out here when we had a ton of discourse this season regarding Purdy and some bogus S2 test calling into question the talent evaluation process. This past draft there were 3 QBs taken in the first out of 14 total. There are a number of mid and late round QBs taken every year that you never hear about because they suck and never amount to anything. Feel free to look over the draft history and see how often those 3rd and 4th round guys work out relatively. http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb It’s really have to evaluate QBs and teams get it wrong constantly. That doesn’t mean that your odds aren’t better picking high vs low.
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Jan 9, 2024 23:18
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