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The hats were bad? I'm not a hatter, tell me more.
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Oct 30, 2023 16:58
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Jack B Nimble posted:The hats were bad? I'm not a hatter, tell me more. Felt at this time, especially when we're dealing with rich people buying fancy hats, was extremely nice beaver fur. The crowns would have been soft with tight fibers and could be hand-creased. Here are some photos of a 1920s No. 1 quality Stetson, which contrary to the name is actually a lower-tier hat that wasn't the best they sold. Notice the soft roll to the creases, which have been done by hand. https://imgur.com/kvSMoEb Now compare that to a modern Stetson, like the one Mollie gives Ernest as a present. The felt has a lot of loose fibers and is overloaded with stiffeners which makes it harder to shape, giving the creases in the crown much bigger and more severe angles. Also the liner was wrong which is something nobody but me would notice but I definitely did. https://imgur.com/N5byvxq Now, there are a lot of vintage and nicer hats in the movie, but it's incredibly inconsistent. Even Ernest seems to get a few, but in between he'll have these really low quality modern hats. Tom White's hat also is completely wrong in quality and shape. These are the main characters so I would expect more attention paid to them. Edit: I want to say it's still possible to get high quality hats, this is not an issue with being impossible to source. I get custom hats from a guy that could have done more period accurate stuff than was in this film.
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Oct 30, 2023 17:13
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This felt nothing like a classic Goodfellas rise and fall movie to me.
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Oct 30, 2023 17:18
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Henchman of Santa posted:This felt nothing like a classic Goodfellas rise and fall movie to me. right? It started with a group of colonial capitalists exploiting the Osage and ended with them even more powerful after shedding a few patsies. the "come to Jesus" moment before the trial with all the lurking oil demons was the real core of the movie. those were the occluded main characters of the movie.
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Oct 30, 2023 17:35
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Famethrowa posted:right? It started with a group of colonial capitalists exploiting the Osage and ended with them even more powerful after shedding a few patsies. That’s nice that you’ve identified the core of the movie but the actual runtime and plot is spent with a fresh faced young man who is lured into a seedy criminal empire with promises of riches and then does find success and some happiness but it all is eventually taken from him by the law. The themes underneath that can be whatever you identify them to be, but that is the structure of the film and I’m not sure how you can argue against that.
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Oct 30, 2023 17:45
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Mullitt posted:I thought this was a mostly bad movie, taken alone or especially in comparison to the book. Okay, I guess, too long definitely. You want to praise the loving feds in all of this? gently caress outta here
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Oct 30, 2023 17:49
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Leo is not fresh faced in this movie he looks like loving dogshit. Some initially handsome features that are onviousl commented upon but he has horrible teeth, a constant glower and talks like a slack jawed yokel. He is not of the Henry Hill lineage.
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Oct 30, 2023 17:52
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Mullitt posted:That’s nice that you’ve identified the core of the movie but the actual runtime and plot is spent with a fresh faced young man who is lured into a seedy criminal empire with promises of riches and then does find success and some happiness but it all is eventually taken from him by the law. The themes underneath that can be whatever you identify them to be, but that is the structure of the film and I’m not sure how you can argue against that. you think the man portrayed to be an actual adult baby for most of the runtime found success? he was literally just a mook lol e. he had no rise. a lonely Osage woman found him pitiable and took him in, and the only power he got was injecting her with a barbiturate daily and occasionally robbing a few bucks from a dead man's wallet
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Oct 30, 2023 17:55
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The REAL Goobusters posted:You want to praise the loving feds in all of this? gently caress outta here Thank you for your good-faith interpretation of my review because I didn’t love a film that you did. The federal investigation was botched for many reasons and was mostly a PR campaign. That doesn’t mean the individual agents involved didn’t have interesting stories or even knew what was really going on. The law isn’t Justice and law enforcement only looks where it thinks it can find an easy answer. Again, the book investigates this in great detail and the gut punch provided by the last portion is much stronger because these are all real people and victims.
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Oct 30, 2023 17:55
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Famethrowa posted:you think the man portrayed to be an actual adult baby for most of the runtime found success? he was literally just a mook lol He loved Mollie and she loved him. Not all success is monetary.
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Oct 30, 2023 18:07
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Came for the historic film accuracy, stayed for the hat discrepancy discourse.
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Oct 30, 2023 18:16
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live with fruit posted:He loved Mollie and she loved him. Not all success is monetary. yes, that is the dramatic irony of the movie. he technically had success and could have lived a great life with Molly, but his only care in the world was scrabbling for money (as the script had him say 3-4 times to make it really obvious). he scuppered his own rise, it never happened from his perspective or ours. he was either being beaten like a particularly large child by his uncle or desperately trying to convince other mooks to do his mook work. he never was able to internalize his own success until he knew it was gone with the death of his child.
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Oct 30, 2023 18:17
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I came out of the movie regarding DiCaprio as a portrait of an evil Forrest Gump, and wouldn't you know it: same screenwriter
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Oct 30, 2023 22:18
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Was deNiro really meant to be in his 40s? I get the historical person might’ve been that age but I just assumed they decided to let him be what Rob is these days, and boy did it work better than The Irishman, with its hamhanded attempts to convince me that Robert deNiro would be a passable G.I as he looks now.
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Oct 30, 2023 22:39
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There's a part in Margaret Atwood's The Blind Assassin that I think about a lot (I don't have the book in my house, so I'm about to butcher it). A young woman gets told by a close member of her family that, despite her father being distracted and distant, he loves her deep down. As a child, she thinks that that's a good thing. When she gets older, she realizes that it isn't, not really. Loving someone deep down means, by definition, there's quite a bit buried on top. If you want that love, you're going to have to dig through it in order to find it. And what would it look like, once you found it? Not something shining and golden. Something tarnished and rusted and decayed from having been interred in the earth. Not a treasure to be cherished, but a talisman. A burden to be borne. That's the way I think Ernest loved Mollie. The kind of love where he was complicit in the murder of her entire family and poisoned her in secret for years, but also took a stubborn pride in the fact that he saw her as a wife as opposed to a mark.
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Oct 30, 2023 22:52
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There’s no rise and fall here because the white people of Oklahoma already had all the power. Even the ending talks about how they were all pardoned later after the murders. You could talk about how the Osage had a rise and fall as they went from dying on poor land of the reservation to oil wealth and then finally murdered their white friends. But the Osage never had power as shown by how their spending was monitored and required white permission.
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Oct 30, 2023 23:03
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Yeah after watching the film I kind of mused on how things could have gone better for the Osage and I think it's kind of an impossibility. Like, the moment they became oil rich white interests were going to be a factor, and if they'd presciently try to bar the white people from their lands or exclude them entirely or something the government would have ultimately treated them like a hostile entity and sent in the military. I don't see a scenario where they both become wealthy and don't get killed for it.
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Oct 30, 2023 23:38
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Glad someone else noticed the hat blunders, bugged me for the entire 7 hour run time. 1 star.
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Oct 31, 2023 01:06
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Guys, you should have checked arethehatsrealistic.com or Hat Rater’s instagram first
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Oct 31, 2023 01:14
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 Went to a morning matinee I dunno if there’s anything I can add that hasn’t already been said except: You know how the Osage women get an owl visitor as an omen of death? Ernest Burckhart gets a portend of his own, except it’s that loving fly that keeps buzzing around him at oddly conspicuous times
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Oct 31, 2023 21:47
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More thoughts Ernest drinking the poison with his whiskey was FASCINATING. Like he’s trying to convince himself that it’s not poison even though the thought crossed his mind. I loved that near the end, you almost had the feeling Ernest redeemed himself by testifying. But then Mollie brings up the poison and that’s that. Loved the framing device at the very end.
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Oct 31, 2023 22:27
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Oh also I could hear the bass of the Eras tour movie next door. Inescapable.
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Oct 31, 2023 22:45
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Steve Yun posted:More thoughts It's not even that she brings up the poison so much as that he is unwilling to admit what he's done to her. Up until she said that he could still pretend that he'd exonerated himself with his testimony; he was living in a schrodingers idiot situation where he could convince himself that he'd not known that she was being poisoned just "slowed down" and thus didn't have to reckon with his own culpability. It's not until she confronts him that he realizes that on some level he'd known all along, and that to admit to that would be admitting to directly hurting not only the Osage community but also the mother of his kids, his unborn child that died, and the woman whom he loved. Conversely he realized that if he'd not admit to poisoning her he could ensconce himself once again in ignorance and feel innocent even if he knew himself to not be, but that by doing so he'd be once again betraying Mollie and would doom their relationship forever. In the end he chooses to betray her again to avoid facing his own actions and is pardoned in this world but is spiritually doomed whereas the Osage are free to pass onto the next world clear and innocent despite their worldly lot being bitter and miserable.
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Oct 31, 2023 22:54
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marty got on the phone with lynch's lamp guy and said gimmie the spookyist lamp in hollywood by god is that lamp haunting
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Nov 1, 2023 08:11
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checkplease posted:their spending was monitored and required white permission. These 2 scenes actually got gasps out of the audience when I watched it. lmao
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Nov 1, 2023 09:43
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I was in an almost empty theatre but the only vocal reactions of shock I recall was the first on-screen murder, which happened startlingly quick.
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Nov 1, 2023 14:25
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Steve Yun posted:More thoughts I loved how hosed up he was in the next scene, and how that probably set in stone the last act of the movie. I don't think my man was just drunk.
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Nov 1, 2023 19:39
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My wife is currently going through breast cancer treatment and anytime anyone asks me to do something from now on I just want to start stumbling around and slurring that I have to go home and my wife is very sick
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Nov 1, 2023 19:58
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Are there other books about the Osage murders? I was thinking of getting Mean Spirit but it turned out to be historical fiction
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Nov 2, 2023 02:17
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Steve Yun posted:Are there other books about the Osage murders? I was thinking of getting Mean Spirit but it turned out to be historical fiction Did you get A Pipe For February? It's on my wishlist
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Nov 2, 2023 02:28
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I’ll add it to my cart Does the book KOTFM ever mention Osage women teasing each other over having white boyfriends
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Nov 2, 2023 08:34
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Steve Yun posted:I’ll add it to my cart I don't believe so, I think the only mention of judgement came from whites toward people like Ernest for marrying Indians.
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Nov 2, 2023 17:03
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Steve Yun posted:I’ll add it to my cart Yeah I can't swear to there being no comment about it but it's certainly not any major element. I recall there being a bit more about the opposite, why the white men would wed them. I did get the impression from the book that Osage women married to white men would use them as their representative, but I must have misunderstood that because that's not Mollie's situation.
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Nov 2, 2023 17:21
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Jack B Nimble posted:Yeah I can't swear to there being no comment about it but it's certainly not any major element. I recall there being a bit more about the opposite, why the white men would wed them. I believe it was decided by the government and was often the case but not always. It's a very confusing system that was obviously designed to be abused so it doesn't really make any sense.
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Nov 2, 2023 18:24
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Steve Yun posted:I’ll add it to my cart The DGA podcast talks about this some. Marty says that originally the women were going to watch silently, but then Lilly and others were like we should have some fun banter. So they came up with the lines like he’s a possum here but a rabbit at home.
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Nov 3, 2023 00:19
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That really stuck out to me as something I wouldn’t expect a white writer to come up with on their own, so props to Scorcese for listening, stuff like that really made the movie better
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Nov 3, 2023 00:25
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It was fine, did not at all justify the runtime.
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Nov 3, 2023 00:27
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So at the end Scorcese goes out of his way to remind us that these were real people and to not think of this whole saga as just an entertainment To that end, I think scenes like the women teasing each other about their boyfriends/husbands went a long way towards humanizing the Osage, with thoughts and conversations outside of the presence of white people and not just as victims. I’m sure the film would have been fine if it was shorter, but now that I’ve seen it with these scenes I can’t imagine them being cut
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Nov 3, 2023 01:39
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Nov 4, 2023 13:24
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lol
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Nov 4, 2023 13:37
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