Is it acceptable for people to use the r-word in any context?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Is it acceptable for people to use the r-word in any context?

Zoeb: Oct 8, 2023

First of all, let me get this out of the way. This is not at all about the rules of this forum, this subforum, or any other subforum, regardless of background color. The forum rules don�t have much impact on the world outside of the forum. I am not telling or suggesting to anyone how they should or should not moderate to forum and nobody needs to be banned or probated. My interest is in how you behave outside of this forum and the impact your words and actions have on yourself and others.

I am asking you to please, voluntarily, do not use this term in real life, or at all, and I hope you will take this topic seriously and not flippantly dismiss it which is why this is posted here and not in a more casual place.

It is in my view, just as it is not acceptable to call me a human being or a tranny, or to call yourself or your friends that for contemptable behavior, it is not acceptable to use the word �retard� to refer to people with cognitive impairments and learning disabilities or to point at absurd or contemptable behavior and refer to is as retarded.
Not Acceptable R-word PSA - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T549VoLca_Q
Spread the Word to End the Word - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru4xSKnVHhw
NoGoodWay to use the r-word - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8i3CnpJAno
Self-advocates speak out about the R-word - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZU8iSGsUFHA

I believe that this word embodies oppression and one of the most manifest and profound stigmas we have. People with cognitive impairments are dehumanized. The concept of intelligence is often conflated with a virtue, with humanity and therefore those who are intellectually disabled are often seen as lacking in that humanity. They are at greater risk for being raped or molested throughout their lives, in addition to physical abuse and torture. There are exceptions to the federal minimum wage for disabled employees and therefore these people are also severely exploited.

The impact of the stigma is embodied in even modern institutions such the Judge Rotenberg center. And historical examples of profoundly abusive institutions where people�s teeth were knocked out as a matter of policy, even if the client had no history of biting. There are people alive today who live with the scars and trauma of this stigma. They have been maimed by these institutions.

Here are some examples. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev80qEtp2u4
Judge Rotenburg Center - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y909QxWVV8g

You might argue that, �I don�t agree with any of that, what does that have to do with the word?� This is about stigma. As this term is used as a playground insult, when you point at contemptible behavior and use this term, you are promoting the beliefs and practices that dehumanize people with intellectual disabilities. People with intellectual disabilities, which are not always visible, hear you. People who have family members and friends hear you.

In my short time here, I have picked up on how many folks here are deeply conscientious people with strong, if diverging beliefs about justice and fairness. I believe the overwhelming majority of you want the world to be a better place but this seems to be a blind spot for some folks who otherwise have good politics. I�ve been reading the SAcyclopedia to catch up on some of the in jokes. It seems that these forums have gone through many changes over the years. That�s good. I am not here to shame you for how you used to be. It shows growth. It shows progress. But this does seem to be a part of the culture and I really hope you are not internalizing those beliefs and are not using it in public or elsewhere. I hope that this community has reached a point in its evolution to discuss this with maturity and grace.

If nothing else reaches you folks, the term is at the very least gauche, dated, and makes you seem like you have no class or manners at all. It is not funny and it makes you look cringe. My feeling when I see this term used is not offense or being �triggered.� Instead I feel a secondhand cringe that someone here would embarrass themselves by using such a tired, unfunny, and outdated insult. It is something embarrassing people would say.

What to use instead?

Honestly, in my opinion, I would rather people did not further stigma against people over their intelligence and come up with better explanations for why contemptible people are the way they are but I understand this may not be meeting you where you are at. I do struggle with this myself sometimes. But, powerful people are generally not �stupid� but have a disagreeable ideology, engage in groupthink, are pandering, or are lacking in judgment. People behaving in silly or absurd ways in various forms of media or in your day to day lives can similarly be explained without resorting to stigmatizing people who struggle with cognition and learning. Maybe they lack support, or manners, or class, or think something is funny that isn�t funny.

# ¿ Oct 27, 2023 05:15

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 07:11

Zoeb: Oct 8, 2023

SamuraiFoochs posted:

I'm a person with a non-cognitive disability who's been called a retard as a slur plenty of times, and this post...kinda infuriates me. Let me be clear. I don't use the word. I haven't in at least 15 years. Probably longer. That's mostly because I don't want to offend people, and there are, in my estimation, far more palatable versions that're less offensive anyway, so what's the point? Here's why it infuriates me though.

Fixating on the goddamn language and acting like eliminating the r-word from casual use (which TBH has pretty much already happened, so like, what're you even going for here?) will be some huge victory, some huge coup for people with disabilities, is legit offensive to me. People don't regularly use the word tranny anymore, certainly not without backlash. That's great. But are things for trans folks in this country any less hosed? I mean, probably at least a little bit but think about how many issues there still are. You don't need me to tell you. Anti-trans legislation, casual bigotry that never goes into full hate crime and therefore kinda skates by, dogwhistles...that all has gotten just as bad if not worse as the outright hatred has become less societally acceptable. I'm not saying eliminating that isn't a step forward, it is. What I am saying is too many people pat themselves on the back and stop there.

Going back to the disability community in particular, because that's the thing I can directly speak on in my own lived experience, I literally and I do mean literally work in the field of legislative and systems change for people with I/DD, mental health issues, and substance use disorders. Wanna know what's a bigger deal than people using the word retard? Medicaid eligibility. Asset limits for people with disabilities who work. The government taking back people's money when they die if they're disabled to recoup what the government gave them. The fact that people with disabilities pretty much can't loving get married because of more bullshit about assets and all that. It's not illegal, but it's de facto almost made that way through insidious institutionalized ableism. Underpaid care staff that can theoretically help people with disabilities live out in their communities rather than being warehoused in group homes somewhere that are scarcely better than the prison system. But nobody talks about that, or almost nobody. We talk about other institutionalized -isms and -phobias, as we loving should, but it just doesn't happen with ableism, and worse than that, there've been times where I've tried to talk to people of other marginalized populations in an effort to create coalition thinking, and I get told "you don't get it, you don't belong here", sometimes even on these forums themselves, in the spaces where people theoretically would be expected to be thoughtful about this poo poo.

I'm not really trying to come at you specifically, but the fixation that some people have on the r-word, even within the disability community, is kinda missing the forest for the trees and is putting a band-aid on a festering wound while the people and institutions that caused all these problems in the first place throw themselves parties just because they're not saying the quiet part out loud anymore.

Also, sometimes stuff is stupid. Not smart. Idiotic. Foolish. Lacking intelligence. Therefore, while I believe the r-word should and absolutely could be eliminated from any polite conversation, as has already been said, it's different from any other slur because like...I'm sorry but sometimes the SENTIMENT behind the word or more importantly similar, more polite words is 100% warranted, regardless of any other othering variables. There's no other slur that's like that.

Either way, I'm only one person, this post is just my opinion, but as a person with a disability who is constantly being oppressed and hosed by the system in ways that would NOT fly in any other context, overly fixating on this one thing rather than having conversations and taking tangible actions surrounding the real disease rather than a single symptom of it makes me want to tear my hair out. If you really wanna help, think more about the stuff that's destroying lives on a daily basis way more than some offensive language.

That is a good point and I do agree there are bigger problems. I'm affected by some of them. I can't get married to my partner because of disability income limits.

I do think that eliminating the casual use of the word is a good first step in reducing stigma that perhaps fuels some of the lack of care but yes the other things you highlight are absolutely more important.

# ¿ Oct 27, 2023 07:06

Zoeb: Oct 8, 2023

Rappaport posted:

Because dungeons and debates is about pedantry, there is a non-human-affiliated use of the word "retarded". But speaking of people, I wouldn't use the term and would consider it offensive if someone else did.

I guess I'm getting old, but I don't really see the need for making jokes with those kind of slurs, either.

I don't think many people are complaining about paint retarder medium or fire retardant.

# ¿ Oct 27, 2023 13:15

Zoeb: Oct 8, 2023

Jesus III posted:

It's fun watching the word that used to be the right word become the wrong word. I hope I live long enough to see it happen over and over. Language is amazing.

I don't think, strictly speaking, you were ever supposed to call people "retard" as a playground insult, even when "mentally retarded" was the legal and medical term. I think people tossing around this status as an insult or to label things that are contemptible is stigmatizing regardless of the term used.

# ¿ Oct 27, 2023 17:04

Zoeb: Oct 8, 2023

queeb posted:

I guess if you're an airline pilot

I don't think people are referring to technical uses of the term that have nothing at all to do with low intelligence. Like I mentioned earlier, I have a bottle of paint retarder medium on my worktable for my warhammer 40k stuff. People have sense enough to recognize that is not a slur.

SamuraiFoochs posted:

I think this is a comment towards my post, and if it is I promise you I don't think people should use the word and like I said I haven't in at LEAST 15 years. At least. Nor do I know anyone who even semi-regularly does anymore. This is a good thing. However, if YOU think there aren't people who go "slur gone, -ism over" and that that attitude isn't problematic towards further progress, then I have a bridge to sell you.

I recognize that is true. Its similar to how ignorant white people think that racism is over since they are under pressure not to say the n-word at work, and therefore we need to scale back efforts against police brutality or economic inequality.

Zoeb fucked around with this message at 05:35 on Oct 29, 2023

# ¿ Oct 29, 2023 05:33

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 07:11

Zoeb: Oct 8, 2023

My suspicion is that there are many people that get very defensive about their use of the term because there's a certain cognitive dissonance that comes from wanting to see yourself as conscientious but also wanting to use a word that sounds funny and is fun to say even if it's harmful and cruel. I think deep down folks who say this term but are otherwise conscientious people, they know that it's wrong. So when someone calls them out on using this term, they go on the offensive, they say that people criticizing them are bourgeois or policing the language of the working class. "And actually aren't you the real problem because you're not talking about the shortage of DSPs?" But ultimately none of that is the real reason that they say the r-word. They say they are word because it's funny and because it's cruel and they don't want to make the hard decision to remove it from their vocabulary.

# ¿ Nov 9, 2023 05:54

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Is it acceptable for people to use the r-word in any context?