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Cavauro posted:Jets may not be historic but they are a top defense with a specialty against the important part of offenses in football. they never get to rest and have to start in their own end more than other defenses. i am beaten to all of this tiny post but that's the risk you take when eating delicious sal.t and vinegar chippys I may have beaten you but you've got the chippys, so I think you're the true victor here
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Nov 8, 2023 00:53
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I know they are done dirty by their offense but it's still funny to say the 2023 Jets defense would be talked in the same breath as the 2000 Ravens if they had a better QB when you could make the case they aren't even a top 3 defense of the 2023 season. the Browns, Ravens and Chiefs are firmly in the discussion
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Nov 8, 2023 01:34
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The Jets with a good quarterback are a playoff team, not a Super Bowl team. Put, like, Justin Herbert on the team and the offense would still be lousy.
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Nov 8, 2023 01:41
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agree about the jets not being a top 3 all time defense no matter who the qb is. but i also respect how good they are against the pass even after the 2004 emphasis on illegal contact. i think theoretically they could have been talked about for many years with a mediocre to decent qb
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Nov 8, 2023 01:43
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fsif posted:The Jets with a good quarterback are a playoff team, not a Super Bowl team. Put, like, Justin Herbert on the team and the offense would still be lousy. I think Herbie on the Jets would have beaten the Chiefs and Eagles along with the (preseason looking good) Bills. The Jets are weird in that they have a tendency to really play up to competition and then look like rear end against garbage teams.
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Nov 8, 2023 01:48
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:I don't think shooting for the moon and going with Rodgers over Carr was irrational. It makes total sense in a league where you just saw the Rams and Bucs pull it off. It's just the lack of fall back plan via a passable backup QB that is inexcusable. See in a vacuum that sounds reasonable, my problem with it is that the way they brought in Rodgers kind of precluded having any sort of real fall back plan. Because to bring in Rodgers, you have to bring in his dunce OC, bring in his questionably helpful WR buddies and build everything around him and make this offense that's predicated on him reading everything at the line and then if he goes down, even if you're not going all the way down to Zack Wilson level futility, you're still in a situation where you have this bad offensive line and this uninspiring supporting cast that's basically just Breece Hall and Garett Wilson and it's being run by the guy who we all just saw run an absolutely terrible offense in Denver last year. And by the way, you're also still giving up two draft picks. I think it was irrational to do all of that when the risk of it backfiring was so high even if you have a better back up QB than Zach Wilson. I think YOLOsubmarine is totally right, it would've made far more sense to just sign Carr, hire a real offensive coordinator and use the pick they gave the Packers to draft a player to make their offense less loving lame. kalensc posted:
This, basically. If going all in on Rodgers includes Hackett, then that's a big problem.
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Nov 8, 2023 01:53
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Sour Diesel posted:absofuckinlutely not. they're a really good defense but that's about it not to go full euph but the defense would have much better stats with a better QB. also, Kalli posted:The Jets are a very good defense bouyed by teams knowing that as long as they don't turn the ball over, they'll win off Zach's errors, so don't try anything stupid.
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Nov 8, 2023 01:55
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fsif posted:The Jets with a good quarterback are a playoff team, not a Super Bowl team. Put, like, Justin Herbert on the team and the offense would still be lousy. I don't think there are many QBs who could overcome their joke of an OL and not having any other WRs other than Wilson. Plus they thought it was a good idea to hire the worst coach in the NFL as their OC.
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Nov 8, 2023 02:00
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Mystic Stylez posted:I know they are done dirty by their offense but it's still funny to say the 2023 Jets defense would be talked in the same breath as the 2000 Ravens if they had a better QB when you could make the case they aren't even a top 3 defense of the 2023 season. the Browns, Ravens and Chiefs are firmly in the discussion Jets defense is definitely hurt by too many futile offensive possessions and their numbers will likely dip as the season goes on despite their talent. The Browns are gonna be in the same boat. The Ravens move the ball easily, and for all the Chiefs problems on offense, Mahomes can still extend drives and keep them competitive in terms of field position. The 2000 Ravens weren't a good offensive team either, but what would Jets fans give to have Jonathan Ogden on the O-Line right now?
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Nov 8, 2023 02:27
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Jets defense also seems like it wants, or needs, to play hero ball which is gonna affect things
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Nov 8, 2023 03:27
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I guess I'm just pushing back in that it was said the Jets with Carr would be the odds-on favorite for the SB whereas the Chiefs have a almost as good, as-good or better defense and Mahomes and were the odds-on favorite. I'm not sure how Carr would have lifted them above the reigning SB champs who lost basically nobody. You can argue the Jets defense would be better with a good QB and I won't disagree but now we're in the realm of fantasy land and projections like that are impossible to refute so go crazy.
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Nov 8, 2023 15:37
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I wouldn’t say the chiefs have a defense on the level of the Jets but I drat sure also won’t pretend even with old Rodgers they’re Super Bowl contenders.
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Nov 8, 2023 15:39
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kiimo posted:I guess I'm just pushing back in that it was said the Jets with Carr would be the odds-on favorite for the SB whereas the Chiefs have a almost as good, as-good or better defense and Mahomes and were the odds-on favorite. I'm not sure how Carr would have lifted them above the reigning SB champs who lost basically nobody. That's fair. Like, even here in the real world, Baltimore's having a year that should have people talking about their Super Bowl chances. But because they share a conference with the best QB in the league, that conversation's not even being had, even with Mahomes having a down year (by his standards).
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Nov 8, 2023 15:51
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I like it when kiimo goes all NOBODY RESPECTS THE CHAMPS so please more of that.
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Nov 8, 2023 15:52
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They're young and ascending but you're probably right. Puppy bowl told me they're weak at corner and safety but they're just young in my opinion. They had an incredible draft with Trent McDuffie, Bryan Cook (who had the TD against Miami), Joshua Williams and Jaylen Watson both of whom started the SB. Sneed is one of the top corners in the leagueDiva Cupcake posted:I like it when kiimo goes all NOBODY RESPECTS THE CHAMPS so please more of that. we all come to this football forum for our own reasons I come to be superfan 2k
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Nov 8, 2023 15:55
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The 72 Dolphins would be shaking in terror at the dominant football monolith of the Carr led Jets (once you adjusted wins for lingering ref bias against Carr)
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Nov 8, 2023 16:01
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The Ravens have the second ranked defense right now and Lamar so it's a pretty big jump to think the Jets and Carr would be superior to that
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Nov 8, 2023 16:05
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Are the 49ers frauds? They play @ JAX this week and could very well lose. I think if you lose four in a row you're a fraud.
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Nov 8, 2023 16:06
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The337th posted:The 72 Dolphins would be shaking in terror at the dominant football monolith of the Carr led Jets (once you adjusted wins for lingering ref bias against Carr) You can drive the Carr away from the Raiders but the stink lingers anyways.
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Nov 8, 2023 16:10
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AndrewP posted:Are the 49ers frauds? They play @ JAX this week and could very well lose. I think if you lose four in a row you're a fraud. Deebo's practicing, so if they get him back and they still lose they'll be gold-plated frauds
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Nov 8, 2023 16:10
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AndrewP posted:Are the 49ers frauds? They play @ JAX this week and could very well lose. I think if you lose four in a row you're a fraud. 49ers will win the NFC West, embarrass the Cowboys in the playoffs, then gracefully bow out, having served their life's purpose. It is a brief but glorious life these Niners live for a few short months each year.
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Nov 8, 2023 16:12
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I saw the script and it's the 49ers defeating the Ravens in the Super Bowl.
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Nov 8, 2023 16:16
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I’ll enjoy long as the hawks keep getting their rear end thrown out as well so the feelings mutual. Also yeah four losses in a row is fraaaaaaud status
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Nov 8, 2023 16:17
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This discussion made me realize the Ravens defense have only allowed 10 touchdowns this season. Bears: 28
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Nov 8, 2023 16:22
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Computer, please generate a succinct metaphor for the NFC North. https://twitter.com/NFL_Memes/status/1722104990355906858?s=20
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Nov 8, 2023 16:26
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kiimo posted:This discussion made me realize the Ravens defense have only allowed 10 touchdowns this season. Bears: 28 The Ravens injured their way through to the other side. All the defensive back ups got so much playing time they are playing like solid starters. Plus, Mike MacDonald is the best DC in the league by a wide margin. I will say the Chiefs corners have definitely improved in my opinion. Trent McDuffie has taken the next step, and it's had a huge impact on the KC defense.
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Nov 8, 2023 16:37
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Yeah McDuffie has caused four forced fumbles already. I thought his career would just be blanket coverage and never get talked about but he's also been a solid tackler
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Nov 8, 2023 16:40
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kiimo posted:Yeah McDuffie has caused four forced fumbles already. I thought his career would just be blanket coverage and never get talked about but he's also been a solid tackler That son of a bitch was a freakin menace in the dolphins game
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Nov 8, 2023 16:45
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it's maddening how good Veach and the Chiefs FO are at drafting defensive players
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Nov 8, 2023 16:48
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It's maddening how bad they are at wide receivers though. Veach is a Baltimore GM
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Nov 8, 2023 16:51
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Speaking as someone whose team had to deal with the Chiefs defense, aaaaaaa, Trent McDuffie scary, aaaaa, stop it, aaaaa, scary.
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Nov 8, 2023 16:53
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Geno Stone six interceptions Kennie Bates DeRon Bland Camryn Bynum Jordan Whitehead just mentioning other guys killing it
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Nov 8, 2023 17:00
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Throw Brandon Stevens on that list. Marlon Humphrey is having a career year since returning from injury and Stevens is still probably the best corner in Baltimore.
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Nov 8, 2023 17:09
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Pretty sure Trent McDuffie would be a Raven if he was there at 25. He seemed like a Baltimore pick, I really thought we were gonna come away with him. I wanna talk about Kyle Hamilton real quick. I remember the big thing for a while was "positionless defenders" and Isiah Simmons was the poster boy for this (before he was drafted). I haven't really followed his career much and it seems like he hasn't lived up to his draft position, but Kyle Hamilton seems like the real deal when it comes to a that kind of player. He was ostensibly drafted as a safety but injuries forced him to play the nickel most of last year, and now he's basically Mike MacDonald's Swiss Army knife. One play he'll play deep safety in a two-high shell, the next he'll line up over the slot. He'll mug the LOS like an OLB and rush the passer... or cover the flat. He's a great blitzer, a sure tackler and plays fast downhill against the run. He pretty much does everything except put his hand in the dirt. Right now he moves around from play to play but it's hard not to see him staying the nickel once Marcus Williams comes back. A benefit of this is that it allows the Ravens to basically live in nickel while staying stout against the run. Just a huge huge asset and I am glad they drafted him.
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Nov 8, 2023 17:18
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Dorian O Daniel is still somewhere on the Chiefs roster looking for his chance to become the perfect nickel LB / hybrid
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Nov 8, 2023 17:21
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the best thing about Kyle Hamilton is he's a terrific player that does everything well the second best thing about Kyle Hamilton was dumb Ravens fans collectively making GBS threads their pants and sulking daily because they decided he was a tremendous bust after, like, the first five weeks of his rookie season
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Nov 8, 2023 17:25
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I have mentioned this but I did a mock draft that year for a sports podcast and I traded up for Kyle Hamilton. I stand by it. McDuffie AND Karlaftis instead though, it's hard to argue with that. Especially where those guys ended up in the live mock of four guys drafting it's fun to look back on things like that. Travon Walker  
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Nov 8, 2023 17:35
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Mystic Stylez posted:the best thing about Kyle Hamilton is he's a terrific player that does everything well secondary is definitely one of those positions that needs like a year before the player is comfortable. rarely can a rookie walk in and just ball out at safety or corner. we've seen it happe, of course, but it feels like a way more difficult position for a rookie than just about anything else
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Nov 8, 2023 17:55
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its cool how obvious ravens draft picks (especially furst round) end up being. its like they look at all the mock drafts and theyre like 'yeah, that player is a pretty good fit'
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Nov 8, 2023 17:57
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the only exception is probably hayden hurst. with dj moore right there
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Nov 8, 2023 17:59
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