The 2024 NFL Draft Thread - Draft Good Players With High Picks

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Football Funhouse > The 2024 NFL Draft Thread - Draft Good Players With High Picks

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kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

Kalli posted:

It just takes the combine data and references it to position and height / weight.

It's not doing anything but telling you how a player rates at combine drills compared to his peers since 2000.

Exactly. Hating RAS is dumber than assuming it's the only thing you should look for because if you hate RAS you are informed enough to know better. It's literally a tool that lists what we're all doing here, measuring athletic performances that may or may not translate to the field.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2024 21:18

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 03:14

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

Doltos posted:

I mean everyone knew he was going to test super fast the guy was hitting 4.4 in high school it's just more the fact that he gets shoved off his routes so easily that people were talking 2nd/3rd day for him. He's smaller than DeVonta Smith, bone thin and not strong nor does he have the torque ability with his arms that Smith has. Washington was bullying the poo poo out of him at the Sugar Bowl.

e: I have him in the 2nd round which is mostly based on his screen game prowess and he will get open over and over on go routes but top 15 is ehhh

I refuse to listen to "gets shoved off his routes" ever again after you all soured me on Christian Watson for this very reason.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2024 21:24

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

Pron on VHS posted:

bring the Ladd to KC

https://twitter.com/PFF_Chiefs/status/1765039601305985344

tell me more

# ¿ Mar 5, 2024 22:01

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

He had three touchdowns in one game and the problem isn't he gets shoved off routes. The problem is he can't stay healthy

# ¿ Mar 5, 2024 22:39

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

Chiefs gonna take Worthy and speed is back on the menu boys

# ¿ Mar 15, 2024 19:37

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

JJ to the Vikings sounds plausible. I doubt the Cardinals will pass up Marvin Harrison Jr

# ¿ Mar 16, 2024 00:28

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:

god i hate chris simms, just a wannabe hot take artist with a stupid loving haircut and dumb punchable face

And yet he continues to be consistently right, at least about QBs

# ¿ Mar 18, 2024 20:54

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

Doltos posted:

General consensus among GMs is never going to match random jagoffs online. I just think that anyone who had Bryce Young over CJ Stroud never watched college football, and that a lot of people were pretending Young was better once the news came out that the Panthers were dumbly taking him at #1

people HERE were pretending Young was better than Stroud. It felt like I was on crazy pills

# ¿ Mar 19, 2024 20:15

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

I would ecstatic if the Chiefs got Adonai Mitchell. I doubt he falls

# ¿ Mar 19, 2024 20:55

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

Never forget they sent Drew away and fired Marty, after going 14 and two

# ¿ Mar 21, 2024 05:17

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

Which one of you put your name in the draft

https://twitter.com/thorku/status/1775037195817992557

# ¿ Apr 2, 2024 23:53

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

Stop he has to fall to 32.

# ¿ Apr 3, 2024 22:54

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

I'm just happy there will be a lot of receivers at the end of the first that are...worthy

# ¿ Apr 3, 2024 22:59

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

No Butt Stuff posted:

lol pick a fat boy to fantasize about

#mahomes #dadbod

# ¿ Apr 3, 2024 23:33

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

Docjowles posted:

Still chasing the Tyreek turbo speed dragon huh? How did Mecole Hardman work out for ya? Hang on I�m getting a phone call

He did what?

Hardman and Worthy are not really similar

# ¿ Apr 4, 2024 15:55

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

Play posted:

They aren't in many ways, but they both have kind of poor hands.

Worthy getting the bad hands rep, while playing with a broken hand. Just sayin

# ¿ Apr 4, 2024 20:53

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

Doltos posted:

Worthy has lovely hands and has had lovely hands his entire career. He needs to be wide open to make catches.

good thing he's wide open a lot

# ¿ Apr 4, 2024 23:54

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

Bismack Billabongo posted:

Joe Alt is a pretty funny name. Prince Pines is another good one

Joe Alt is just Joe Old in german maybe it's because his dad John Alt was a longtime NFL player that it doesn't seem weird to me at all?

# ¿ Apr 7, 2024 17:11

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

Doltos posted:

Not really sure if Pearsall is a slot guy he plays more like a X.

but he's white

get in the slot, son

# ¿ Apr 9, 2024 21:33

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

What about neck un-fusion surgery like Chiefs legend Justyn Ross

# ¿ Apr 10, 2024 21:39

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

So someone tell me why Washington should take Daniels over Maye because everything I see about Maye makes me think he's a better pick.

I thought the same thing about Stroud over Anthony Richardson and Richardson IMMEDIATELY got hurt. Am I crazy for comparing these guys

# ¿ Apr 11, 2024 15:51

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

Ornery and Hornery posted:

Richardson and Daniels are almost nothing alike as Qurterback prospects. They can both run fast. That�s the most compelling similarity.

You forgot the one similarity, the very one I was alluding to...they gonna get broken physically

# ¿ Apr 11, 2024 17:42

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

Play posted:

To put it in extremely simple terms because I've probably expended enough words on these guys already: Daniels has the higher floor, by a lot. He's faster and more athletic, has much more developed and repeatable mechanics, more consistent accuracy, etc. Maye has more immediate bust potential because a lot of what he is is based around projection, but probably has the most upside just based on his arm strength, youth, and overall profile. He has Josh Allen / Justin Herbert upside.

Basically to me Daniels is probably the safer pick, with Maye being a pick that either earns you a great reputation as a front office or gets you fired.

Personally I tend to think that Washington will take Maye despite most mocks seeming to have them go Daniels.

gonna use this when I pick Maye for Washington in my buddy's draft podcast.

# ¿ Apr 11, 2024 18:39

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

If it was like, anybody but Washington I think they'd take Daniels but even though the entire franchise is different people the stank of RG3 has to still hang over that franchise

# ¿ Apr 11, 2024 21:26

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

Dexo posted:

Holy poo poo definitely not Ints lmao, if you are a great CB in college chances are you are not getting thrown at unless they absolutely have to throw at you.

Also lmao at Sacks, Pressures yes, I don't care too much about Sacks(it's a tape thing if like you are missing a bunch of sacks on tape that might be a problem)

Sacks can be avoided by QB's, if you force a QB to dirt a ball or make a bad pass or run into someone else's sack, you did your job spectacularly as a Edge/DL. But you aren't going to get credited with a sack.

Joey Porter Jr had one interception in college. I think Jalen Ramsey had 0 or maybe 1

please god do not judge CB's based off college interceptions.

Trent McDuffie had two interceptions in his entire college career and it took like five NFL games before he was Revis Island Part 2

# ¿ Apr 12, 2024 17:31

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

Bakersfield is the drain of all that.

If you're curious the type of people that live in Bakersfield, Eatdatpussy is from there

# ¿ Apr 12, 2024 18:14

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

If you seriously don't know, I'm sorry for what's about to happen to you

# ¿ Apr 12, 2024 18:28

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

Sorry if that's a reference I don't know it

# ¿ Apr 12, 2024 18:44

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

Cavauro posted:

If you seriously don't know, I'm sorry for what's about to happen to you

i just got skeeted!

edit: EDP even before he was a pedophile had a very very long hit list of wildly disturbing behavior, often involving his own poo poo and wild other things often involving his dad. I can't remember them all but the pedophile stuff was like...oh of COURSE that's also a thing. Dude is a spectacular example of humanity gone extremely wrong.

kiimo fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Apr 12, 2024

# ¿ Apr 12, 2024 22:28

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

We already have Harbaugh in the AFCW and I'm not sure I want JJ as well. Man I have Michigan friends I want to maintain relationships with

# ¿ Apr 13, 2024 03:26

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

Just did a two round mock. It was super fun and illuminating.

The Green Bay Packers should absolutely keep trading down look at this haul

edit: and got these guys, DT will not be a need anymore lol

Jer�Zhan Newton (dt-2)
Braden Fiske (dt-7)
Junior Colson (lb-1)
Javon Bullard (s-2)

kiimo fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Apr 13, 2024

# ¿ Apr 13, 2024 22:03

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

Leggette at 18 sure is somethin, I'll give ya that

# ¿ Apr 15, 2024 22:27

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

Doltos posted:

I think this draft is weak as hell so I'm not sure how many teams would want to trade back, if they agree with me

Not if your team needs tackles and receivers like mine does this draft rules

# ¿ Apr 17, 2024 00:21

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

It does not matter how many receivers there are

I trust Veach to take the wrong one

not that I'm complaining

# ¿ Apr 17, 2024 00:58

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

All the more reason for Green Bay to trade down a bunch and stockpile the biggest haul of picks in history

# ¿ Apr 17, 2024 02:31

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

It's not like his receivers are gonna get worse in the NFL, sounds like he has acceptable receiver catch radius accuracy

*not a penix stan
*zero film
*posting for no reason

# ¿ Apr 18, 2024 00:15

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

Ornery and Hornery posted:

Xavier Worthy has used his rocket speed to rocket up big boards.

To be fair people mocked him right at the end of round 1 the moment he ran that 40 and this has him at 33.

# ¿ Apr 18, 2024 15:33

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

A Chiefs guy who grinds film did a deep dive on him that convinced him and me that Worthy is absolutely not just a speed guy

But I also like so many other receivers. My best case is trading up for Brian Thomas Jr but would be okay with lots of others

# ¿ Apr 18, 2024 17:22

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

Hell his own Texas teammate is super intriguing

# ¿ Apr 18, 2024 17:28

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 03:14

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

If anyone is interested, here's the article. Won't be able to see the clips but this is someone I trust

quote:

In this year�s �know your draft crush� series, I�m once again examining various wide receivers the Chiefs could target in early rounds of the draft. Fortunately, the 2024 draft is packed with good WR prospects. In an attempt to figure out who would be the best fit in Kansas City, I�m looking at as many as possible, breaking down the film to look at the same traits for each player: Speed/acceleration/agility, releases, route running, hands/catch point work, YAC/playmaking, and an overall takeaway. Here are the guys we�ve looked at so far:

In today�s edition of �know your Chiefs draft crush,� we�ll be looking at Xavier Worthy, a player who has been connected (mostly through speculation based on history/preference of the team) with the Chiefs more often than almost anyone else in the draft. Worthy blew up the combine with a record-setting 4.21 40-yard dash and is widely considered (for good reason) one of the most electric playmakers in the draft. However, he�s undersized and many have questions about how he�ll adapt to the NFL given that limitation.

One of the great things about Worthy�s college career is that he�s played future NFL cornerbacks on several occasions, so we can dive into the film to try and answer whether he has the traits to translate to the next level. Is he Mecole Hardman (all due respect to a 3-time Super Bowl Champion) or Desean Jackson (or Hollywood Brown, or Tank Dell, etc)? As we all know, speed alone isn�t enough in the NFL. And not all speed translates to the field, and is harnessed correctly.

But sometimes it does, and when that happens it�s absolutely (apologies to Travis Kelce) electric. Let�s talk about it.

Xavier Worthy - Texas
Relevant measurements - 5�11�, 165 pounds

Games reviewed - Alabama, Houston, Oklahoma, TCU, Kansas State (2022), Alabama (2022)

(NOTE - Most of the video clips I�ll use will be to highlight positive traits, because they�re more fun to watch. But that doesn�t make the negative traits for a prospect any less real� it just means I like to show the fun things!)

-Speed / acceleration / agility-
Holy crap.

Look, as soon as you hear �4.21 40� your brain probably shuts off a bit when it comes to talking about speed. But it shouldn�t. Because as I said above, not all speedsters translate once the pads come on, or understand how to harness their speed in a way that grabs separation.

Xavier Worthy is not one of those guys.

Worthy�s speed shows up on film at all levels of the field, but in particular on deep routes (whether it�s a post, go, corner, deep crosser, whatever). He can absolutely fly in pads and can not only separate once he�s even with ease, but he can chew up ground on a defender with leverage and still be separated by the time he�s down the field.

Worthy isn�t just a �long speed� guy either. He accelerates terrifically and is able to grab separation fast on short and intermediate routes with good explosion off the line and when he cuts. His combination of quickness, acceleration, and long speed is legitimately difficult to find, and he utilizes it very effectively while varying his �gear� depending on what the situation calls for.

What I mean by this is that Worthy isn�t constantly sprinting 100 miles per hour. He seems to have a good grasp on the weapon that his speed/acceleration is and when to harness it. People talk a lot about �tempo� in route running (we�ll get more into that later), and Worthy does it well, setting a good pace for when to flip the switch and just sprint right past defenders who can�t keep up.

You can see when Worthy kicks it into 6th gear on this play. And when he does, the defender doesn�t have a chance unless he�s already sprinting deep. And Worthy helps avoid this with the tempo he runs it, saving the afterburners until he�s made his final cut. That�s utilization of speed that not every �sprinter� type shows at the NFL level, and it�s something that separates him from the Ross�s and Hardman�s of the world (who don�t have that same ability to effectively utilize their speed in pads).

Worthy, also has very good quickness (though not on the �God-tier� level his speed and acceleration are, which separates him from Tyreek Hill, whose freakishness extended to quickness as well) that allows him to start/stop and change direction well. Because he�s high level in all of these areas, he�s able to weaponize his athleticism all over the field and in multiple routes as opposed to being just a deep speed merchant. He also shows very good explosion with his first step, both off the line and in his breaks when he needs to separate at that point.

Worthy�s athleticism in all three aspects is something that sets him apart from the vast majority of prospects, and I cannot stress enough just how much of a mistake it would be to lump him in with failed speedsters who didn�t have the whole package as an athlete.

-Release ability-
The biggest question I get about Worthy is how he can handle press man coverage. I would note that this concern is generally a bit overblown because people get focused on a few highlights, but the reality is that true press man is pretty rare in the pros as well as college for a variety of reasons. The more important question is whether a receiver can get a clean release at the line without having the timing of the route screwed up, whether it�s pure press or a defender being physical right off the line.

Worthy was generally able to do so, in large part because of his combination of quickness and explosion. Defenders have a hard time getting hands on him because he has the ability to go horizontal and grab space from them, then push upfield to get �even� so fast that they can�t grab him without risking a hold.

This is the primary weapon Worthy utilizes to get himself free releases. He�s quick enough that he can skip a step to the side, then explodes fast enough to get away from potential leverage from the cornerback. He�s also more comfortable with contact than some smaller receivers (like McConkey, who despite being bigger than Worthy was slowed more frequently by contact throughout his routes and at the line) and appears to have a little more fluidity in dipping his shoulder to get around contact that�s offered at the line.

Because of Worthy�s size, if defenders are able to get a square punch on him they can jar and slow him at the line. However, because of his ability to prevent that square punch and his ability to dip around/through it, that only happened once or twice in the multiple games I watched (and plenty of corners tried it). The problem defenders faced is that his ability to get even quickly and then walk away is so dangerous that utilizing physicality at the line was too risky.

When a guy can stutter and explode into his route like that, it�s incredibly difficult to stay in front of him. And if you can�t stay in front of him, you can�t press him. That led to problems for every CB he faced at the college level, including several future pros. There�s just no safe way to press someone who can get even and then leave you behind this quickly.

I think that may stay the same at the NFL level. That agility COMBINED with the first step explosion is a terrific answer to press.

-Route running-
If Worthy had run a 4.31 instead of a 4.21, I think people would be talking about his route running more. Because he�s significantly better at it than he gets credit for. Watch the subtlety on this route, because this feels very similar to the type of thing that people rave about McConkey and Mitchell but don�t talk about as much with Worthy.

Remember when I talked about tempo? Worthy utilizes that here. He�s not in a hurry as he closes the distance to the CB, and leaves the defender wondering whether he�s setting up to explode down the field. He also doesn�t give any clue as to what direction he�ll be breaking if not going over the top. He then (without losing speed, a critical aspect in this) gives a couple of head fakes that gets the defender first turned outside, then hesitating thinking he�s going to need to execute a speed turn when Worthy cuts back. But the cutback never comes, and Worthy cuts pretty cleanly (not perfectly, but cleanly) outside to create easy separation.

Worthy�s speed has almost become a hindrance in talking about his route running, because the assumption I�ve found is that he�s not a technician. But he�s significantly better here than the vast majority of other guys with gifts that remotely approach his, and he does an excellent job overall setting up defenders with a combination of tempo shifts and head/step fakes that get defenders� hips turned the wrong direction. And then it�s over.

Again, ignore the explosion and watch the way Worthy sets up his eventual curl here.

Worthy does a nice job selling a downfield route, then waits until the defender flips his hips (because he knows he can�t let Worthy get even). He then executes a quick turn and comes back towards the ball, which unfortunately isn�t delivered.

Worthy�s route running chops aren�t just limited to doing a nice job setting defenders up with fakes (which he does on deep routes as well, I should note). As I�ve said, he also tempos his routes well and varies his speed depending on where he�s at on the route. He also has a smoothness and liquidity to his movement that allows him to handle contact at the stem and elsewhere, something that is going to be very important at the next level (it�s really hindered Skyy Moore, for example). Worthy will often show flexibility around that contact and absorb it without losing too much off his speed and timing. Defenders have a tough time (similar to the line of scrimmage) laying a clear shot on him. That may change in the pros, but it�s promising at this point.

In terms of negatives, I�d note that Worthy does need more work in clearing his hands and getting defenders off him when they try and maintain contact as a way to read him or slow him down. He shares this issue with his teammate Adonai Mitchell, so I�m curious whether there�s a coaching point here that will be of assistance. He can be slowed up with maintained contact at times, so that�ll be the first thing to watch for.

Worthy also did show some nice spacing in his routes when running against zone, as well as the ability to vary his speed depending on where the windows were, but didn�t have to make a ton of sight adjustments. In the Chiefs offense, obviously, that will be a major part of what he needs to do and is currently an unknown.

Worthy�s route running, as I said, deserves more attention than it gets. He�s pretty nuanced in setting guys up and uses it to his advantage to create situations where he can run away from defenders who are wrong-footed. It�s a lot of fun to watch.

-Hands / strength at catch point-
This is not Worthy�s strength. While he showed the ability to track the ball deep and adjust to it over his shoulder (a crucial skill for a true deep threat rather than just a fast guy), his hands don�t seem particularly strong and he is not a contested catch player. He relies on getting that separation. When he�s not fighting contact he shows the ability to control his body and make tough catches, but not to the level of someone like Mitchell.

I didn�t see worthy has having terrible hands, but it�s not a point of strength. Given his skillset, it may not become an issue often, but it does place a few limits on what he can do in the red zone in particular.

-Yards after catch / playmaking-
Worthy, as one might expect, can be exceptional with the ball in his hands based on his speed, acceleration, and quickness alone. He�s able to make guys miss in space and can steal extra yardage other players cannot due to his ability to outrun angles to the sideline. He�s pretty fluid and looks comfortable finding the areas of the field to go after when he has the ball as well, and he�ll fight for yardage harder than one would expect from a player his size, bouncing off tacklers that don�t wrap up and doing what he can to secure every yard.

He�s definitely not a tackle-breaker, however, and is generally going to be brought down by a defender who gets a clean shot at him and doesn�t over-commit without wrapping up. So in that way one shouldn�t expect the Rashee Rice-type of shedding defenders or falling forward for multiple additional yards. It�s an area he has some very significant (and valuable) strengths, but it�s not as eye-popping as his athleticism and route-running. Though if he gets an angle, his ability to turn a short gain into a long one is something to see.

-Overall Takeaway-
Overall, I came into this film review with some skepticism given Worthy�s size. Any time you have a player who has a certain deficiency (size, speed, whatever), they need to have things in their toolbelt to compensate for that deficiency.

And with Worthy, at least on film, he absolutely does. His elite 3-prong athleticism (not JUST fast or JUST quick or JUST with terrific acceleration), along with his knowledge on how to utilize that to buy himself space, more than compensates for his lack of size and demonstrates why he was so productive even against top-tier competition. He�s a significantly better route runner than he gets credit for, with some nuance in how he sets defenders up and stacking moves on top of moves to get himself in position to run away from guys. He looks like he could walk on an NFL field tomorrow and generate separation at all 3 levels (particularly deep and intermediate) at a high level.

He�s not a contested catch guy by any stretch of the imagination, but to be perfectly frank that particular skillset is less valuable to me by a landslide than the ability to get open with consistency. And Worthy does exactly that.

My hesitancy about Worthy�s size had me coming in thinking I wouldn�t want the Chiefs to draft him in the first round. I�m fully on board now, and he�s a guy I could see as a terrific complement to Rice and Kelce�s game and as the pure �deep threat� guy in 2024 while Brown works the intermediate and shallow portion of the field (not to mention having two scary deep threats is, in fact, a good thing!). If he�s available at 32, I�d be very happy.

Next up on the �know your draft crush� list is Keon Coleman. I thought I�d go with a guy who is much more likely to be available late in the 2nd round, and a very different type of prospect than the guys we�ve looked at so far. After that, I�ll choose between Brian Thomas Jr. and Troy Franklin. But so far, this draft class (even as I�ve ignored the top 3 guys) has lived up to the hype.

# ¿ Apr 18, 2024 18:15

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Football Funhouse > The 2024 NFL Draft Thread - Draft Good Players With High Picks

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