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As of writing this OP bowl season is approaching and it's that time of year again. Tentative top 10 in each position atm. I haven't watched all these prospects this is just general consensus from what I've seen on the internet so far: QB: Caleb Williams Jayden Daniels J.J. McCarthy Michael Penix Jr. Shedeur Sanders Drake Maye Jordan Travis Quinn Ewers Bo Nix Michael Pratt RB: Trey Benson Braelon Allen Will Shipley TreVeyon Henderson Blake Corum Raheim Sanders Jonathon Brooks Jaylen Wright Carson Steele Donovan Edwards WR: Marvin Harrison Jr. Malik Nabers Emeka Egbuka Johnny Wilson Keon Coleman Rome Odunze Xavier Worthy Ladd McConkey Troy Franklin Ja'Lynn Polk TE: Brock Bowers Cade Stover Ben Sinnott Ja'Tavion Sanders Jaheim Bell Luke Lachey Brevyn Spann-Ford Bryson Nesbit Oronde Gadsden II McCallan Castles OT: Olumuyiwa Fashanu Joe Alt Taliese Fuaga Kingsley Suamataia JC Latham Graham Barton Tyler Guyton Jordan Morgan Amarius Mims Blake Fisher OG: Zak Zinter Cooper Beebe Christian Haynes Troy Fautanu Christian Mahogany Donovan Jackson Tate Ratledge Layden Robinson Javion Cohen Walker Parks C: Sedrick Van Pran Zach Frazier Jackson Powers-Johnson Bryce Foster Logan Jones Andrew Raym Cooper Mays Matthew Lee Duke Clemens Bryan Hudson Edge: Dallas Turner Jared Verse Chop Robinson Laiatu Latu Jordan Burch JT Tuimoloau Tyler Baron Bralen Trice Princely Umanmielen Jack Sawyer DT: JerZhan Newton Maason Smith Kris Jenkins Leonard Taylor Ruke Orhorhoro Nazir Stackhouse T'Vondre Sweat Michael Hall Jr. McKinnley Jackson Dontay Corleone LB: Jeremiah Trotter Jr. Barrett Carter Junior Colson Tommy Eichenberg Jaylan Ford Trevin Wallace Smael Mondon Jr. Danny Stutsman Cedric Gray Jason Henderson CB: Kool-Aid McKinstry Kalen King Cooper DeJean Denzel Burke Josh Newton TJ Tampa Max Melton Jason Marshall Kamari Lassiter Quinyon Mitchell S: Kamren Kinchens Calen Bullock Tyler Nubin Javon Bullard Jaden Hicks Cole Bishop Jalen Catalon Cole Bishop Rod Moore Andrew Mukuba Demani Richardson You may now discuss prospects but keep in mind there's no such thing as a proven draft philosophy and a lot will change between now and April
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Nov 16, 2023 21:48
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*scratching Jordan Travis off the big board*
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Nov 19, 2023 04:33
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TheGreyGhost posted:Caleb regressed to merely a good QB1 prospect and is going to drive someone absolutely loving crazy when he holds the ball that long in the league. This year’s tape he has no idea what he’s doing in a pocket or with his feet but has the potential to be an AR/Cam caliber physical talent with what he can do at the margins in between insanely bad pressure decisions. Agreed TheGreyGhost posted:MHJ is the best receiver prospect since Calvin. Faster than AJ, more technical than Julio, bigger than JaMarr. Agreed
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Nov 19, 2023 18:15
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Fields has had one of the worst coaches in the league destroying his career. I think he's better than every QB in this draft, maybe not Jayden if he reaches his potential
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Nov 19, 2023 19:12
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I think this WR group is insanely stacked. It's hard to rank the guys behind MHJ because you can flip on any of their tape and be like yep that's a top 15 guy right there.
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Nov 20, 2023 21:13
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I think a lot of kids are going to 7 on 7 camps/tournaments which I used to hate but now think they're pretty valuable. I think it's good for teaching kids how to get open and how to look for open receivers.
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Nov 20, 2023 21:26
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The Puppy Bowl posted:Strongly disagree. There are some quality edges but the interior D line is lacking. We get one maybe 2 1st round level DT/NT a year. I strongly disagree with this. I think Dline is absurdly powerful right now and there's a plethora of quality DTs in the league. It's at the point where someone like Vita Vea isn't arguably the best NT somehow. OLine have it so rough guys are just nutso good. I don't know how someone blocks Myles Garrett
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Nov 20, 2023 21:56
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You're overhyping a late first olineman in your mind? JC Latham is a huge man that hasn't given up a sack yet but got kinda abused by Princely Umanmielen. He shimmied Tyler Baron a lot last week which is another first round edge. He's similar to Darnell Wright last year in that he sets with his outside foot and forces people around. He has trouble sustaining blocks. Mims is a bit taller and slimmer than Latham. He's got decent movement and could fit well in zone blocking despite his size. He could probably play left tackle. Decent slide and good use of hands. Definitely has a lot of power and can flatten people in the run game. He's kind of too aggressive and doesn't have good pocket presence.
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Nov 21, 2023 02:35
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He looks at every single one of my posts and tries to instigate in every thread. It's beyond annoying but mods don't care.
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Nov 21, 2023 07:32
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Quick WR thoughts Malik Nabers doesn't run routes and doesn't care about them. He's super strong and great after the catch. Could probably slot him anywhere and he'd succeed. Keon Coleman also doesn't run routes but is just an insane athlete. So many highlight reels. Great jumping ability and body control. Rome Odunze is like a faster Julio Jones. He doesn't lose at the point of catch. I constantly see him pulling down contested throws from Penix like it's nothing. I think he's going to make the biggest jump. Troy Franklin is speedy fast and a great route runner. Just beats everyone to the spot then punishes them with a quick couple extra yards. He's pretty thin but that doesn't matter. Has amazing hands for a speedster, just snatches poo poo. MHJ is just all around. Can't find a fault in his game other than he's not the greatest YAC guy. Best player in the draft by far, might be better than Calvin and right behind Randy Moss coming out as a prospect. Emeka Egbuka is almost as good somehow. I think if he wasn't on OSU he might be the 2nd WR off the board. Just a complete package of size and speed with great separation. He just does everything right with really good discipline for a college WR. He needs to get a bit better at route running but it's nitpicking. Xavier Worthy is going to run like a 4.25. When used in space he's pretty elite. Can punish like a punt return when in the open field. Skinniest guy in the draft with none of the leverage that DeVonta Smith has. Johnny Wilson is surprisingly agile for a tall guy. He's great at breaking and out of routes, great after the catch. He has insane ball skills and will make some nutso catches. He's not the fastest but he's fast enough. Doesn't really get separation but I think that's just because he's so big, not from a lack of talent.
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Nov 22, 2023 18:27
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I love WRs that are like yea he's not going to run a crisp route but who cares It's like Maxx Crosby DEs that just belligerently rush forward without any thought or care. It's the superior way to play football.
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Nov 24, 2023 17:26
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TheGreyGhost posted:Honestly, I’m getting to a point where I’m occasionally grading guys down on DL for playing with good technique if they’re less productive than just some random dudes who flail. There’s a school of thought that elite 2-gap guys should basically play with no technique in mind and be purely reactive to how an OL plays them and I kind of get it for odd-front or hybrid looks now. It’s what’s so funny to me about Tuimoloau and Sawyer with Ohio state this year—least technical edge guys out of Ohio state in eons but JT just guesses run/pass and is so disruptive that the linebackers just know “oh poo poo he overran” and cover for him. Yea in a way that's just good football too because Eichenberg and Chambers' run fits are solid. If you trust your team to be in an area why wouldn't you just do one job extremely well? Another thing to mention about JT and Sawyer is their sack depth. If the idea is that sacks are horrific for an offense to function then you can make it more horrific by sacking someone so far back it might as well be a turnover. Sawyer and Tuimoloau have great get off and take harsh angles to the QB. I think JT averages something like 10 yards a sack which is absurd. If you just catch someone with their pants down like that it's way better than trying to develop some longer, prettier pass move.
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Nov 25, 2023 03:39
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Mock drafts should be jettisoned into space especially any that come out more than a week away from the draft
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Nov 29, 2023 17:08
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fsif posted:They're fun and a neat rubric for non-college watchers to familiarize themselves with prospects. I feel like they mislead non-college watchers more than help them. They also create weird confidence vacuums where people who saw an initial mock draft will base all their opinion on the prospect from that moment. They'd be okay if they created conversation about the prospect but most often they just induce How did they rank X player in Y position??? posts.
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Nov 29, 2023 17:18
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Yea mocks suck with the caveat that Dane knows his stuff
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Nov 29, 2023 17:22
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Could I possibly steer you guys towards top 10 rankings instead? You get all of the info with none of the clickbait.
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Nov 29, 2023 21:47
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I do? I hate the clickbait.
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Nov 29, 2023 23:32
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Carlosologist posted:I want to believe that Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll will see a playmaker like Jayden Daniels and make him their franchise quarterback. Does he have the traits to actually do that? He’s put up numbers at LSU this year but I hardly hear people talking about him He runs a lot like Lamar and has a good arm his ceiling is pretty high
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Nov 30, 2023 05:59
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Febreeze posted:Daltos which possible 1st round QB on the board gives you the worst vibes that you dont want the Giants to take so I know what to be mad about Drake Maye because he shits his pants any time there's pressure in his face. The hater knocks I have on each QB: Jayden Daniels: Terrible QB at ASU Caleb Williams: Looks off easy routes Bo Nix: Inaccurate and gets bailed out by great WRs Quinn Ewers: Dumb as bricks, inaccurate throws due to lovely technique J.J. McCarthy: Bailed out by elite offensive line Penix: Just average Shedeur Sanders: Baby arm Carson Beck: Just a game manager Michael Pratt: Only looks like a NFL QB on bootlegs Tyler Van Dyke: All arm no brains Spencer Rattler: Gets rattled (in the pocket) Joe Milton III: One read QB Jaxson Dart: Micky mouse offense
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Nov 30, 2023 20:32
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Yea same with Leonard and D.J. not sure if I should list any of them but you never know
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Nov 30, 2023 20:44
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Relentlessboredomm posted:added more to some of these. lol Jayden has got to have some real negatives that aren't just "when he was younger he was bad" Bama and FSU games this year were really rough for him. I don't have the All 22 but I think he was loving up his deep balls. He has a problem with his release where it's fluid when it works but otherwise it's inconsistent. Also while he runs like Lamar with the lean forward technique he doesn't give himself up and takes bad hits. Other than that his tape has been awesome. He's just a gamer.
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Dec 1, 2023 00:03
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I was referring to his junior year but yea I generally forgive for true freshman starts
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Dec 1, 2023 02:17
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I personally think age doesn't matter at all since every position but kicker and QB has a short shelf life on average. People are too used to madden drafting where you take a 21 year old kid with A+ potential and he's a 99 overall by the time he's 22 while the stats never drop til he's 30. In real life even if that guy existed he'd probably leave in free agency from your small market team.
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Dec 1, 2023 18:29
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Not market size per se but I find it hard to imagine that if the majority of players come from Florida/Texas/California then they wouldn't prefer those locations in free agency. I also think that Seattle has gone on record saying that free agents don't like playing there because of the location but I'd have to find it.
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Dec 1, 2023 19:51
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SKULL.GIF posted:Maybe this will change with NIL, but it's seemed like if a player has "it" he goes to the NFL fairly quickly. If he doesn't have "it" he sits in college for a long time. Yeah I think NILs definitely complicate school stay now. When it comes to talent that's more of a case by case basis, I believe. We've seen Tremaine Edmunds and Amobi Okoye suffer from leaving college too early and still getting man handled with a NFL training regimen. We've seen older prospects flame out in Weeden and Danny Watkins. I also think it's hard to quantify if staying in college and developing talent and size will better prepare someone than leaving early and getting into a NFL program, or visa versa.
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Dec 2, 2023 00:15
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Yeah I wouldn't really call Penix a dual threat he's more of a tuck and run and yea that's all gone now from the injuries. Last nights game was really miserable. Both teams were checkdown artists. Penix is really good at picking up on pressure and getting the ball out to a good outlet. He also had a poo poo ton of time behind his line and even then wasn't really hitting big.
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Dec 2, 2023 17:44
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A Buffer Gay Dude posted:Penix had throws of 22, 34, 31, 25, 19, 17, none of which had substantial YAC. I don’t know if we watched the same game. I remember him popping off some throws but the majority of that game felt like checkdowns and quick hits. Bunch of screens to Polk and quick outs to Odunze. I guess McMillan was was popping off with that one deep ball down the sideline.
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Dec 2, 2023 20:58
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Hamhandler posted:It depends on where he goes, scheme fit is tricky and real important for off the ball linebackers. Agreed with this. indigi posted:also technical question for Daltos/GG: how much can arm strength reasonably be improved, and at the D1/nfl level is it actually strength that's being built or technique? also there have been QBs with average or slightly below average arms who are very good/have gotten very good at throwing deep without looking better at winging it outside the numbers or fastballs over the middle, is that just developing better anticipation/putting more loft on the ball or changing something mechanically for longer throws? Anything can be improved with training and technique. The question is just always if you want to. Mahomes isn't traditional at all and he's lethal because of it. On the flip side Josh Allen massively improved due to his form upgrade. The way you improve arm strength is foot placement and torque. It's transferring power systems from different groups of muscles. The legs plant, create torque, that transfers up through the torso which is rotating to produce its own power from the abdominals, up into the release point and fulcrum of the arm. A good example of the ideal transfer of power is Baker Mayfield. He can bomb it super deep despite his stature because he whips his entire body into it like a golfer. To throw the ball farther QBs are also taught to open their body and lean farther back. Opening your body creates torque and leaning backwards is basically the same concept as a catapult.
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Dec 2, 2023 23:17
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FizFashizzle posted:This isn't a current draft question but another one about evaluation: how did people miss on Bryce's footwork so badly? On my end I thought that Bryce could get away with it. I don't think footwork matters that much on short routes which Bryce excelled at. Kind of like how a shortstop can do an off balance throw because the torque of the elbow snapping. Like GG said the margins in the NFL are so exact that having just a little bit off can dumpster your career. For what it's worth I think he still looks the same in college on the short routes, it's just when he has to push the ball you see what happens in that video. Locked legs after a drop back basically kills any chance of delivering a speedy ball beyond 10 yards. He definitely has to fix that. Either way if I could accurately predict QBs I'd be hired by every team in the league. Dane Brugler himself had Bryce at #1 and doesn't mention his footwork anywhere in his blurb. I'm just looking through past rankings and he had Josh Rosen as the #1 QB in 2018 (like I did). He had Zach Wilson as the second best QB in 2021. poo poo ain't easy.
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Dec 3, 2023 18:12
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FizFashizzle posted:And I’m not criticizing anyone btw, I’m just genuinely curious. No I know. I think that if any draft person gets offended about being wrong then their brains are all fucky. It's impossible to be right all the time and it's really easy to be corrected by someone who watches more about a prospect than you. I rely on people being like nope Penix wasn't checking down at all so I can rewatch with a better view point.
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Dec 3, 2023 18:16
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Kirios posted:So I had Stroud over Young - this is one that I kind of get to victory lap a little bit. And in general I have a decent success rate at QB (no other positions though, don’t know them nearly enough to make any intelligent analysis).  I also had Kyle Hamilton as the second best player in the 2022 draft. Ignore Malik Willis in my top 20... https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NrqG5bDrSpFmj2HLLv1cwpAyXyHubTd2K--lM7v7WEo/edit?usp=sharing https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16iNzH-jSmheg0_TeD2Owe4ynV2yzvDJX8N8a6rE0-RA/edit?usp=sharing
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Dec 3, 2023 20:02
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Stroud and Young were both very good prospects and I believe deserve to be ranked high. GG was beating the Stroud drum from the get go which kind of made me do it too. I don't think anyone imagined Stroud would turn into the second coming of Drew Brees and that Young would be this bad. QB scouting be hard.Henchman of Santa posted:I think he had a terrible workout or something. As a fan of a team that really could’ve used him he sounded like Nick Fairley 2.0. In addition his conditioning was loving terrible at Georgia. I'm not sure if it was because he was still growing into his body or what but he'd have to take more plays off than Jordan Davis. I understand Georgia heavily rotates their line but you would see him gasping on the sideline for air after like a play. That was literally his only knock though, all the other poo poo was stupid draftnik talk.
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Dec 4, 2023 18:07
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joe football posted:Not sure if you'd call it 'development' but Roethlisberger was the poster child for holding the ball forever(to great success) much of his career but ran a pretty pathetic but sometimes effective 2-seconds-and-throw offense for his last ~3 seasons Also he shrugged off sacks like an ogre so that helped him Holding on to the ball forever is when I think QBs don't have the knack. Either they're poorly coached, don't have a rapport with their WR, or they just plain suck at finding open guys. It's also so hard to figure out if they're at fault. I didn't realize Daniel Jones was such a moron with it until I saw some tiktoker pull up all 22 and show him not throwing to open slants and seam routes that he was looking at. There's also a huge problem measuring time to release pass statistics. They count throw aways and incompletions, so if a QB whips the ball out of bounds or throws a crappy pass trying to force something short you won't see it in the time to throw stat. I think McDaniels did a great job fixing Tua holding on to the ball too long. He installed a super fast offense that requires Tua to throw to points in the field instead of a WR. That way as long as he gets the ball to a spot he can rely on Hill or Waddle getting to it before they're even out of their break. Purdy is also in a similar offense. It removes the need to process the field too much.
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Dec 5, 2023 00:21
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CJ Stroud has the body type of a guy that plays ultimate frisbee
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Dec 6, 2023 03:44
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Ginger Beer Belly posted:My memory of the C.J. Stroud discussion before the draft was that there was a ton of concern over his S2 Cognition test as he scored in the 18 percentile on it. He clearly doesn't seem to be having read processing difficulties, so I wonder if that means that the test itself isn't quite as predictive as the company makes it out to be, or if he just had a bad day. From what I understand the S2 Cognition Test gives you a prompt and tells you to click on something that is like that as fast as you can which is the dumbest possible way to look at a prospect. Anyone who repeated that poo poo or, even worse, judged CJ because of it should immediately be ignored on all future draft discussions. It was one of the most embarrassing moments in internet draftnik history.
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Dec 9, 2023 18:24
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Dec 9, 2023 21:19
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There's a variety of every type of WR every year. Also Odunze is a great, shifty route runner and a high pointer. Same with Johnny Wilson and somewhat Troy Franklin.
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Dec 14, 2023 01:59
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Diva Cupcake posted:Connor Rogers is pretty respectable and his latest bb is pretty interesting. Caleb #3 overall. Fashanu as OT1. Nabers over Maye. Any list that has Newton high is good by me
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Dec 21, 2023 19:51
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I don't know how Verse got so much hype, even last year before he declared he was going back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4CWzIJ2Fck I think he has serious trouble reading run lanes and keeping his gap. I don't think he's bad, he's just a crash only DE at the moment. I think that's concerning for a 5th year senior. He's got a good bullrush and uses his hands well. He can definitely get to a spot off the snap fast and deliver a good pop. He's also going to test through the charts at the combine. FSU had him dropping into coverage and he looked fine as a zone LB. He's got short T-Rex arms for his size which makes him have to get closer to defenders. You see it when he's trying to work Graham Barton (another potential first rounder in that clip). He's got to get right up inside him to work his pass rushing moves which is a bit of concern against guys that are more run blocking OTs than pass blocking ones. He just got stood up all game and shoved around. The rest of his team feasted that game, you can see them all getting through repeatedly in the tape, but he was kind of not enabling that if that makes sense. I think he needs a move to OLB.
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Dec 27, 2023 18:07
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Nabers runs wherever he wants to and then sons the people trying to tackle him it's a very pure, chaotic way to play football
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Dec 27, 2023 18:19
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