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PurpleXVI posted:Probably one of the most basic idiot questions that certainly someone in the thread has asked before, but if you had a pick between Jasmine and Basmati rice, which types of dishes/flavours would you feel was a better fit for one of them than the other? WARNING WARNING WARNING: These are broad broad generalizations based on what I've done with regards to eating the foods from the cultures living in the countries I'm mentioning. It is not at all indicative of the entirety of the peoples who live there, because no culture is a monolith. Learning about a culture's food is an exciting and fun thing that everyone should try to do more of whenever they can. I'm using these broad generalities to help guide you in your own explorations of rice. Jasmine rice is prized for its soft cooking grains, its floral aroma, and its slightly sticky texture. When you eat Thai food, you're meant to scoop up a bit of rice into your fingers, and then use it like a little "wrapper" for whatever ingredients are in the curry or dry cooked ingredients you're eating with your rice. The grains are meant to stay together. Even if you use a spoon, that stickiness is great for Thai food, Burmese food, Laotian food, Vietnamese food, and Cambodian food. Also really excellent for South Indian, Nigerian, Ghanaian, and Kenyan food. Really good for Jamaican, Trinidadian, Guyanese, and (what I have seen of) Haitian food. Lots of rich, thick gravy in their stews, and the other dishes are more dry. It goes well with those foods. Basmati rice is prized for its super long grains, its separate fluffy texture, and its nutty popcorn-like aroma. The grains will be on the firmer side. When you eat North Indian food, you're meant to have bread as the thing that you scoop up your curries and veggies with. The rice is its own dish. You don't really eat it with other stuff, but rather eat it as its own thing, mixed with various spices, meats, vegetable, and served as a dish in itself. This is not to say that North Indians don't eat rice. Quite the contrary. Everyone loves rice. However, North Indian food is more based around their dizzying arrays of breads. Basmati rice shouldn't be treated as the bland grain eaten with other stuff. It's meant to be its own thing. Basmati rice is suited to North and Central Indian food, Sri Lankan food, Chinese food, pretty much all the -istan countries (Pakistan, Afghanistan, Kurdistan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, etc), Turkish food, MENA (middle east and North Africa) food, Central and South American food, and Pacific Islands food. These cultures do eat a lot of rice, but you tend to see it mixed in with other stuff rather than served straight up to be eaten as the main dish that you season with little bites of other things. The fancier Chinese restaurants in the UK started using Basmati for their stir fried rice, because the grains are so fluffy and separate, and you want that in a stir-fry. I haven't eaten much food from France, Spain, Portugal, England, Germany, and Eastern Europe, so I can't really speak to what rice would go well with the foods from there. I feel like the spices they use in Spain would be well suited to Basmati rice, but don't quote me on that. I'm not too familiar with the Polynesian islands either, so I didn't bring them up.
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Mar 7, 2024 18:48
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koshihikari is deffo the best rice to perform japanese nationalism with, at least price? lol
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Mar 7, 2024 18:48
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Dino give me another rice-forward dish to make with the nice basmatti I bought. The crispy saffron one was good and I will make it again.
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Mar 7, 2024 19:45
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therattle posted:Not a rice expert, but I think jasmine is more delicate and lends itself to SE and E Asian flavours, like Thai curries, etc. Basmati is more robust in every way, and more suited to S Asian and Central Asian/Middle Eastern dishes. Pretty much this, also I think basmati generally is better suited for "western" dishes.
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Mar 7, 2024 20:46
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dino. posted:Rice Wisdom Thanks for the suggestions, based on this I can think of a few dishes where I think I'll try swapping out my usual basmati for jasmine next time to see if it turns out any better. Now, I note that the cooking instructions on both bags are identical wrt water:rice ratios, would you say this is reasonable advice or that one of them demands a different ratio?
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Mar 7, 2024 23:17
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Not empty quoting
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Mar 8, 2024 04:34
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This thread rules.
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Mar 8, 2024 04:51
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Does anybody know a reasonable mid tier supplier for mail order rice in Germany? I just use to buy what was on sale at the Turkish market, but after my move there is none nearby. And with the shipping added I can easily go up to medium quality. I probably want basmati. I only find three normal market stuff where shipping costs feel significant. Or the hipster stuff that sells 100g trial bags in paper bags.
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Mar 8, 2024 09:59
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I've never been so excited to watch a discussion about rice.
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Mar 8, 2024 17:20
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Tyro posted:This thread rules.
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Mar 8, 2024 17:37
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dino. posted:Calrose is a perfectly cromulent brand. Ask me about rice: perfectly cromulent This thread is fantastic! Thank you so much, dino.
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Mar 8, 2024 18:00
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I love the rice thread
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Mar 8, 2024 18:52
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Cached Money posted:I love the rice thread Me too
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Mar 8, 2024 22:09
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I am on the edge of my seat for industrial shelf-stable sushi rice packet development updates
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Mar 9, 2024 11:53
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Here's my current rice. Thai jasmine rice (not hom Mali) comes in a big red 5kg pack with either a cockeral or a dragon on it and stars, along with a fake wax seal. I like this a lot.  Japanese short grained rice, kinda pricey, is fine imo. Cooks well and has good texture.  
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Mar 9, 2024 12:21
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PurpleXVI posted:Thanks for the suggestions, based on this I can think of a few dishes where I think I'll try swapping out my usual basmati for jasmine next time to see if it turns out any better. I do rice cooker and ignore the packet instructions.
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Mar 9, 2024 15:28
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VictualSquid posted:Does anybody know a reasonable mid tier supplier for mail order rice in Germany? Because rice is such a dense food (in the USA, freight class is around 55 or 60, which indicates dense as gently caress product), shipping it via post will always be more expensive than the rice is worth. Check for literally any Indian store near you, buy like 10 kg at a time, and store it in air tight containers to prevent bugs. If you are nervous about infestation, buy what’s called “oxygen absorber”, so that no bugs can survive in the air tight container. Do this, and your rice will keep for 30 years.
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Mar 9, 2024 15:32
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fun fact: vast majority of general consumer (so not industrial) consumption of oxygen absorbers in the united states is by mormons, who are religiously required to be doomsday preppers and therefore buy that stuff straight from the mormon stores specifically for this purpose https://store.churchofjesuschrist.org/oxygen-absorber-packets/5638681574.p
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Mar 9, 2024 15:50
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I just rucksacked a 5kg bag of nice parkistani basmati from the nearest Turkish market, through a 1 hour transit ride. The Indian market is around 10 minutes further away. You need a pretty big bag for 10kg bags, especially if you grab other groceries, too. Are oxygen absorbers worth the effort? And how often do I need to change them when I remove rice for cooking?
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Mar 9, 2024 16:00
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Dino, south Louisiana gulf coastal goon here. I've always just used cheap or local medium grain rice for things like jambalaya, gumbo, and etouffee. What is your take on these types of dishes and what rices are appropriate?
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Mar 9, 2024 16:06
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VictualSquid posted:I just rucksacked a 5kg bag of nice parkistani basmati from the nearest Turkish market, through a 1 hour transit ride. The Indian market is around 10 minutes further away. they're needed for storage for 6 years, not if you just wanna store for 6 months. so it depends upon the regularity of your rice eating
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Mar 9, 2024 16:09
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Mushika posted:Dino, south Louisiana gulf coastal goon here. I've always just used cheap or local medium grain rice for things like jambalaya, gumbo, and etouffee. What is your take on these types of dishes and what rices are appropriate? I am nowhere the expert, but for these I would recommend Carolina Gold— it keeps its consistency while releasing enough starch to properly thicken the dish. On a related note, we have shrimp to use up and company coming tomorrow, so tonight is adventures in non-localized paella! We keep bomba rice for this dish specifically, and I'm excited to give it a whirl while the missus does a white elephant thing with her book club.
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Mar 9, 2024 17:38
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See those grains of rice stuck to the side of the bag? If I shake the bag they’ll move but stay stuck. They are being held there by the webs spun by pantry moth larvae. If you see these know that your food has some bugs in it. This is a good reason to keep your opened food bags in airtight containers: bugs can’t get in - or out. (this is sushi rice from a well-known upscale UK supermarket chain; I bought it because I needed it and was in a hurry. I usually get my sushi rice from our local Asian grocer or the refill bulk food shop. Rice from the latter often has bugs too.) https://imgur.com/gallery/8kS9BK8
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Mar 9, 2024 18:37
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dino. posted:RE: Food manufacturer guy with gloopy rice. I don't have too much experience with cooking sushi rice, no. I'd love to be able to do it properly but I work for a food manufacturing company, not a kitchen. I'm trying to present a product that is 95% close to what would be produced on the factory floor. Sure, I could make up a 'Hollywood Sample' (actual term), but this is just gonna cause headaches down the line. This is a commodity product sold business to business; there are going to have to be sacrifices made in order to produce hundreds of thousands of kilos of this product every month. I'm trying to determine the way to produce the most reasonable facsimile of decent sushi-ish rice given the considerations of labour, cost effectiveness, and feasibility in a manufacturing environment. Suffice to say, a lot of the above steps are not possible, but some are! Because I'm working on bench-top scale at the moment, I'm using the pasta method. This is because we can't emulate how our screw cookers in the actual plant work - they're hockey rink sized pieces of equipment that take giant bins of rice and shuffle them through a 95C shower for X amount of time on a conveyor belt. But it is weirdly encouraging to hear that our lovely pasta method is not helping - that can be eliminated in production at least. Soaking is theoretically feasible but will cost a lot in labour, Keep in mind our current labour cost on this item is only weighing out the bin and shuffling it to and from the screw cooker, plus pressing one button. Adding an extra step there will more than double the labour component of the product, which is already the main cost driver. Is it worth it? That's for our clown customer to decide. I can provide samples of both. Usually they go for the cheaper product. The sous vide step is part of our standard process. ALSO a big part of what makes us competitive., it sure isn't our cost, lol. Shelf life is king for the type of customer we're working with here. We can get a product that's guaranteed food safe for 90+ days after the sous vide step. Without the sous vide step, even with preservatives and funky atmosphere technologies you're lucky to get 20. It's not STRICTLY necessary since we can also freeze the item! But it's way more cost, and worse, more labour for both us and our customer. Yes, even thawing out a bag of product is too difficult for a lot of our customers. This is a deal breaker so often! I'd really like to keep our sous vide step and work around it. I can provide our customer with both samples but basically once you get past 3 different samples you overload their puny brains. dino. posted:4. WTF is inulin fiber doing there? It forms a gel. Have you ever dissolved inulin fibre in water? It becomes slimy. That's gonna make the problem WORSE not better. The inulin fibre is actually doing some good in our sous vide recipes. It traps excess moisture (purge from the rice, water from the vinegar, excess wetness because we do a poo poo job draining it). Without it, the rice becomes rice soup after the sous vide process. Usually we would use modified corn starch or xanthan gum for this kind of scenario (happens a lot when sous viding chicken for example) but both of them do much, much worse things to our calrose rice than inulin does. dino. posted:5. What is the rice conditioner doing in there? Dramatically improves texture (not stickiness!) on the rice when included before sous vide step. It's a collection of enzymes that help the rice absorb water better. Works in concert with inulin fibre to keep the bag as dry as possible inside. dino. posted:6. What is the yeast extract doing in there? Sushi rice is salt, sugar, vinegar, rice. That's it. I don't know what the rest of that stuff is doing there. If it's extending the shelf life, that's fine. It's MSG but without being MSG basically. Our customers and especially end users basically expect all asian food to taste like MSG. Even when it doesn't belong. I don't like it, but I do what I have to do to make a product that sells. Our target audience is Joe Bumblefuck who just tried miso soup for the first time. dino. posted:Most of all, I don't know how they expect you to do a full rear end research and development on a timeline especially when your company doesn't specialize in making rice. The guys that I buy my IQF (individual quick frozen) rice from are the only ones who do it in their entire region, and they supply to everyone who orders from them. I don't mean in their state. I mean in their entire freaking region. As in, when we checked with other IQF manufacturers in other countries, they were like "Yeah, we do veg, not rice. For rice, you have to call this guy." Rice cooking in huge quantities is hard, and it's extremely easy to waste a ton of product and make a mess. We do specialize in rice! We sell millions and millions of kilos of fully cooked rice a year. There's a very, very good chance that most of this thread has eaten our (my!!!! I've designed all our best sellers!!!!!!) products several times. Our customer is actually one of our better ones, we do a bunch of business with them already. They are a household name, and are very very successful and beloved even by the jaded 40 year olds on this forum. That said... The customer is a loving idiot, like basically every single person who works in this industry is. The pay sucks rear end, most of the 'business' types may not have even ever eaten food before, and every bit of passion is slowly sucked out of the good ones as they're dragged down into mediocrity. All of those things you mentioned happen repeatedly, except for the QC thing. There is no actual QC on the customer's end. We do work in JIT, which is loving amazing since we somehow haven't learned our lesson from COVID's continuing supply headaches! I guarantee you the person who asked me to use Koshihikari (aka the buyer) googled 'best sushi rice' and that's the extent of his knowledge on the subject. Our timelines are ridiculous. For developing new products, pre scale-up, we usually get less than two weeks. Our NPD process is one of our sales people sends an email saying 'hey abuse culture i ned sushi rice march 13. pls ma;ke' with even worse typos and this is somehow the person I'm supposed to take orders from. It's insane and I want to personally slap every single sales person and especially executive in my company. But I can't fix that. Aside from getting another job (yes please!) all I can do is try to make a reasonable quality facsimile of what some toad-man in middle America thinks is Sushi rice so he can impulse buy it since he doesn't have time to cook before the game's on, or the kids have to go to Hot Chip and Lie Practice, etc. abuse culture. fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Mar 9, 2024 |
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Mar 9, 2024 21:10
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I'll try to post some pics when I go back in on Monday. Might as well complete the saga. They're going to be what I send. If we get the business, great, but we have like a 10% success rate (actually very, very good) on new product approvals so I'm fine if it misses what they want.
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Mar 9, 2024 21:12
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VictualSquid posted:I just rucksacked a 5kg bag of nice parkistani basmati from the nearest Turkish market, through a 1 hour transit ride. The Indian market is around 10 minutes further away. It's for long term storage of your rice, not for the stuff you've got in your cabinet that you're eating regularly. In my house, we go through like 3 - 5 kg of rice per month, which means that a 10 kg bag will last 3 months tops. As long as I chuck my rice into the freezer before putting it into airtight containers, I don't worry about bugs. But, if you're the type of person for whom a small 5 kg bag of rice will last you like a year, that's when you look into the oxygen absorbers. It's for super long storage of rice, like over 6 months to a year. They make ones that you can chuck into little 2 litre mason jars, and just shut with the regular mason jar lid, and it'll keep your dry goods nice for ages. If you're gonna clear through whatever rice you bought by the end of this year, you're fine just freezing that bad boy before you introduce it to your pantry in an air tight container. Did I say air tight container enough times? In case I didn't: put your rice into air tight containers for the love of god. Mushika posted:Dino, south Louisiana gulf coastal goon here. I've always just used cheap or local medium grain rice for things like jambalaya, gumbo, and etouffee. What is your take on these types of dishes and what rices are appropriate? OK, so I'm a little out of my depth with Gulf coast cuisine, so forgive me if I misspeak. What I know of it is from watching Paul Prudhomme videos on TV when I was a kid. From what I understand, gumbo is like a stew that's thickened with okra and gumbo filé, right? So it's gonna be hearty and thick, but not as thick as a roux based stew, like Etouffe? But in both cases, you're talking a bunch of meats, spices, vegetables, and other strong things going on, right? In my opinion, cheap medium or long grain white rice should go well with those dishes. I see nothing wrong with what you're doing right now. That being said, if you want to try something new, I'd say give Jasmine rice a try, if it's within your budget. Good Hom Mali Jasmine has been getting really expensive, and I don't want to pretend like everyone has the funds to drop $1+ per pound on freaking rice. Also, doesn't rice grow in the Gulf states? I feel like you should be able to find locally grown stuff, which sounds so exciting! bloody ghost titty posted:I am nowhere the expert, but for these I would recommend Carolina Gold— it keeps its consistency while releasing enough starch to properly thicken the dish. Here's the stuff. Do NOT confuse it with Carolina Brand "Gold" long grain rice. That stuff is parboiled rice. This is my opinion, but if you're going to spring for Carolina Plantation Gold Rice, which is upwards of $10 a lb, use the stuff where it shines the most: in any dish where the rice is cooked WITH other stuff. From what I know of gumbo and étouffée, the rice is served plain on the side. It's not cooked in the dish. The super power of Carolina Plantation Gold Rice is that it does what you said: release starch to thicken the dish while still keeping its grain integrity. It's like the best of both worlds of like an Arborio with the separateness of a Basmati. Hoppin' John, Red Beans and Rice, Dirty Rice. You want the grains in the final to be separate, while still releasing a bit of starch. Possibly Paella would be pretty primo with the stuff?
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Mar 9, 2024 21:13
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I finally submitted myself to face the bloodshed and did all the steps on some mid-at-best-probably-crap jasmine rice from the grocery store and it was dramatically better. I washed instead of a half-rear end rinse. I soaked. I threw out the soaking liquid. I did my normal procedure from then on (pot on the stove, eyeball some salt, let rest afterwards, fluff with a rice paddle). It was so much better.
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Mar 14, 2024 19:38
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Dear Dr Ricemeister, forgive me if this has been covered before, I must have missed it: do you salt your cooking water for all rice varieties, or only certain ones? Or do you season only once the rice has been cooked?
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Mar 15, 2024 20:29
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you should kramer into the tech bubble thread in yospos, where we've been having a war over salting east asian rice off and on occasionally for like a year or two. not the yospos food thread, the tech bubble thread
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Mar 15, 2024 20:45
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I spent a good part of the pandemic improving my fried rice, specifically getting it to taste like the stuff you get at a good hibachi place. I've nailed most of the seasonings and flavors now, but I'm not sure I'm using the best rice. My go-to white rice at home is Thai Jasmine long-grain (usually Mahatma brand). It's great with just about anything else, but it doesn't seem to fry well for me. I've tried the cookie sheet method right out of the rice cooker, and I've also let it sit in a large bowl in the fridge overnight. The problem is that this rice is extremely sticky and hard to break up, which results in uneven frying and sometimes some crunchy bits. Drying it helps a bit, but the window between "slightly easier to separate" and "so dry that it turns black the second it touches the pan" seems tiny. Should I try a different type of rice for this?
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Mar 15, 2024 21:01
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WhiteHowler posted:I spent a good part of the pandemic improving my fried rice, specifically getting it to taste like the stuff you get at a good hibachi place. I've nailed most of the seasonings and flavors now, but I'm not sure I'm using the best rice. A lot of places use 50/50 jasmine/long grain white. The jasmine tastes good, and feels more substantial. The long grain white separates easier (and is cheaper, as a bonus). Even doing super dried out 100% jasmine on a restaurant jet burner, I haven’t experienced “so dry that it turns black the second it touches the pan” though. I mean, we would purposefully let it sit for 5-6 seconds on max heat to get a little bit of dark brown on it, but that’s a feature, not a bug.
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Mar 15, 2024 21:30
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Frazz: I salt all my starches while cooking, rice included. That’s a matter of personal opinion. If your grannies or dad or mom did it different, I’m not about to get into an argument about it. However, I tend to prefer salted food. Re: fried rice. Leave it in the fridge after cooking in an airtight container. Do not let it sit in the fridge in a bowl uncovered. Else it will dry out and desiccate. You need the moisture. That said, jasmine rice is too sticky in my opinion to be a good choice for stir fried rice. Long grain white should do well, or basmati if you’re feeling fancy.
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Mar 16, 2024 13:05
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So, I just was at the supermarket and saw some "original indian basmati". I wouldn't buy it there, but I noticed that it said "milled and packaged in the Netherlands". I thought milling happened in the producer countries. Is that brand just unusual?
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Mar 18, 2024 18:18
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dino. posted:Re: fried rice. Leave it in the fridge after cooking in an airtight container. Do not let it sit in the fridge in a bowl uncovered. Else it will dry out and desiccate. You need the moisture. quote:That said, jasmine rice is too sticky in my opinion to be a good choice for stir fried rice. Long grain white should do well, or basmati if you’re feeling fancy.
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Mar 18, 2024 18:34
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VictualSquid posted:So, I just was at the supermarket and saw some "original indian basmati". I wouldn't buy it there, but I noticed that it said "milled and packaged in the Netherlands". So when you're importing goods into any country, you have to pay the import duty. I don't think that the Netherlands is a rice growing region. So, what the millers can do is to import husked rice (because the rice husk and paddy will have khapra beetle issues, which nobody wants to deal with), then mill and clean/package it in the Netherlands (or whatever country they're doing it in), and pay a significantly lower duty on it. Then, once the product is finished packaging, it can move freely within Europe without khapra beetle concerns that the rice imported directly from India will have, and much much lower duties. WhiteHowler posted:My local megamart only has "extra" long-grain rice unless you go up to 25+ pound bags. Is there a practical difference, or is it just a branding thing? It's likely a branding thing. Without looking at the physical rice itself, I'd wager that it's a good quality long grain white rice with very few chalky grains, and likely enriched with various minerals and vitamins and junk.
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Mar 19, 2024 15:01
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dino. posted:Frazz: I salt all my starches while cooking, rice included. That’s a matter of personal opinion. If your grannies or dad or mom did it different, I’m not about to get into an argument about it. However, I tend to prefer salted food. But have you tried this with vegeta?
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Mar 20, 2024 08:17
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On the topic of enrichment actually, why do people bother doing it if everybody who knows how to cook rice is just going to wash off all the vitamin dust anyways? Is washing rice a relatively new development historically, and back when enrichment was first implemented in the 20th century people were more likely to actually eat the vitamin dust (seems pretty unlikely, I would assume rice has been washed forever)? Is it just westerners looking at the success of enriching flours and thinking "oh let's do this with rice too" but not realizing that rice gets washed while flour doesn't? I would like to know more about rice enrichment, most of my knowledge on the history of food enrichment is in a Euro-American context.
Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 08:39 on Mar 20, 2024 |
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Mar 20, 2024 08:33
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It removes some but not all, and you're still getting a boost of the various enrichment supplements even with thoroughly washed rice.
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Mar 20, 2024 17:23
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dammit dino, now I can't watch food videos on Youtube without analyzing what rice they use.
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Mar 21, 2024 11:12
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From what I recall, the fortification issue is less to do with the manufacturer wanting to do a thing, and more with legislation. Somewhere I read that all the cereal companies and white bread makers had to enrich their products with vitamins and minerals that were stripped away in the milling process when turning it into white ____ grain product. I believe rice in the USA may have been caught up in that same wave of concern. IMO, no manufacturer is going to voluntarily increase their costs (by fortifying food) if they don’t have to, because those added back in vitamins and whatnot are not free, nor are the processes to add them to the food. That said, if you’re eating more than just plain white rice, you don’t really need to worry about washing away the artificially added vitamins and minerals. You’re going to get more than enough nutrition from other food you’re eating. Let your rice be a starchy delicious thing, and let the rest of your food do the nutritional heavy lifting instead. RE: scrutinising rice on Youtube I must confess that most of the time, I’m watching YouTube on a tiny screen, and don’t really pay too close attention to what it is that they’re specifically making on the screen. It’s when I’m watching like Top Chef, and screaming at the TV when someone is reaching for a sticky rice, and trying to make a fluffy and separate rice dish. It drives me bonkers. For home cooks, I’m willing to give a lot of leeway, because they’re working with different constraints than professionals. Professionals I have no patience for when they mess up rice. There’s so much variety out there, and y’all can’t even be bothered to do a little research, or corner an Indian dude from your computer class? Source: am an Indian dude who took a computer class, and taught my classmates who asked for my help more about rice than about computers.
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Mar 21, 2024 16:16
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