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Ohtori Akio posted:i mean western musics pretty much converged on 4/4 unless youre pointedly trying to be novel or youre writing a waltz for a specific reason. "yeah i think people are gonna want to dance to this" -> 4/4 brother. hiphop is a 4/4 genre because the stuff it got assembled out of is already 4/4, without that musical connective tissue theres no reason it would be because its just rhythmic recitation im not talking about 4/4 4/4 is just a popular time signature for a bunch of reasons im saying the modern structure of all popular music that hiphop and pop and everything else (rock. subgenres, country. jazz, etc) all ultimately draw their foundations from isn't a western one the harmony and tuning is western, the stringed & woodwind instruments, but the rest isn't really modern music altogether doesn't have much of a direct link to classical art music, doesn't have much but some to other popular folk music, bluegrass w/e bit there's no baroque or polka or irish or hungarian folk influence in popular music very little church influence - except filtered through gospel, soul, r&b FirstnameLastname has issued a correction as of 07:26 on Dec 15, 2023 |
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listen to a child ballad and tell me that didnt make its way into the blues. its a fundamental mistake to characterize the blues as a non western musical idiom when it is clearly a product of multiple influences including european ones, because the environment the blues were created in had those influences. i mean, unless you are going define the prewar african-american experience as Non Western which seems completely off base to me.
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Dec 15, 2023 07:39
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Ohtori Akio posted:listen to a child ballad and tell me that didnt make its way into the blues. its a fundamental mistake to characterize the blues as a non western musical idiom when it is clearly a product of multiple influences including european ones, because the environment the blues were created in had those influences. i mean, unless you are going define the prewar african-american experience as Non Western which seems completely off base to me. the pre war african american musical influences were church compositions, and themselves pretty much. black people weren't getting to go see orchestral stuff anywhere in tht country pre ww2. the only time they'd see professional musicians is by being one, or going to see black musicians, maybe be lucky and get a record player it's a hybrid of western and non-western influences but the parts that make it matter from a music development perspective are the non-western ones the blue note, blues scale altogether with a variable third that's bent between a major and minor third/implied by playing both keys, the use of non-functional I7, IV7, V7 chords, the 12, 16 & 32 bar blues structure itself, the traditional subject matter being practical accounts of real things, set in the first person from the performer, the improvisational styles, all have links going back to griot practices like that's connected to why classical music died and is dead it has no really tangible link to any active, popular area of music nowadays because it's legit almost all from musical styles & conventions that trace back to africa & not europe except for 12-TET tuning, the church modes, people's familiarity to western harmonic practices like functional diatonic harmony based on the major scale modern music doesn't even use standard musical notation anymore unless someone transcribes something intentionally lol functional harmony is dead as a thing except in a civil war reenactment way the last big development there, as in all western art music, was like idk, 12 tone serialism lol wamna hear some cracker poo poo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQHR_Z8XVvI and like, john cage, xenakis stuff? then its just been jacking itself off ever since e: by european art music i mean euroean+american 4 clarity FirstnameLastname has issued a correction as of 08:21 on Dec 15, 2023 |
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Dec 15, 2023 08:11
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the child ballads arent lullabies theyre a record of songs regular rear end people sang in many different contexts, often small but formal performances. that anglo lowbrow art music context got shipped to america and coexisted with the antebellum african american experience, along with as you say church music and west african music. like yeah man, the cool parts are african, but that is a fundamentally different assertion from the unsupportable one that contemporary popular music is primarily nonwestern in character. the european musical tradition is as much songs about willy the man who died trying to hook up with his gf, as it is beethoven. and that lowbrow musical tradition, along with church harmony, would have been actively influential on people making up work songs so the days go quicker, or blues ballads about how much life sucks. a blues song has a TON of common form and purpose with some of those english ballads, it's an artistic way to bitch about the recurring bad things in life, using repetitive structure and chords so you can remember the words and not gently caress up the harmony. to address a separate point, elaborate art music functional harmony that is jacking itself off yes ended up with guys like schoenberg but that was always a relatively niche part of the european musical tradition. it is a misstatement to describe the contemporary coexistence of functional harmony with nonfunctional or unharmonized music, as functional harmony being civil war reenactment. people use it all the time just in the simple way that has worked for centuries unaffected by trends in rich people symphony orchestra music.
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Dec 15, 2023 08:40
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lol fnln did you think that child ballads were rock-a-bye-baby lullabies??
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Dec 15, 2023 08:48
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https://files.catbox.moe/85ef4g.mp4
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Dec 15, 2023 08:54
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i dont really have anything to add to a good argument itt though, but one thing i'd mention in contemporary western sense is the role of capitalism through the dissemination and reproduction (or dampening) of music as it relates to profitability -- which is also now global. it's cybernetics also apply culturally. i think some convergence can be attributed toward particular affinity in that way (particularly repeatability, energy, 'catchy', etc). this has even spread globally where even like more traditional eastern europe or asian is different, but their pop music is basically western these days also bardcore pwns https://www.youtube.com/@the_miracle_aligner/videos
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Dec 15, 2023 09:01
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much like west africa, the autism thread has unmistakable cultural exports
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Dec 15, 2023 09:03
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American Culture: A Historical Topic (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 15, 2023 09:04
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it is non-western in form and structure, you can trace early pop music straight to blues, but not to anglo folk music in the same way like there's similarities between european folk music but there's not the transference of direct influence from it into a current thing blues harmony has nothing in common with western harmony except the IV-V-I motion, it's completely its own thing with different rules that aren't like european folk music or ballads at all either it's not like any western music harmonically. it has similarities and things in common to other folk genres but there's not anywhere near the same direct transfer of style & practices that there is from blues to rock, soul, r&b, pop, w/e like you can see that in bluegrass and rockabilly stuff mostly but not much else
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Dec 15, 2023 09:04
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Xaris posted:lol fnln did you think that child ballads were rock-a-bye-baby lullabies?? what Ohtori Akio posted:much like west africa, the autism thread has unmistakable cultural exports lol
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Dec 15, 2023 09:05
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address the elephant in the room bitch......you thought willie o winsbury was a nighty night song
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Dec 15, 2023 09:06
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it is+ it makes you safe if u hear the whole thing 
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Dec 15, 2023 09:08
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i do feel very safe when the king admits willie o winsbury is very sexy and gives him a bunch of money + his blessing to marry jane, but no responsibility
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Dec 15, 2023 09:11
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Ohtori Akio posted:much like west africa, the autism thread has unmistakable cultural exports
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Dec 15, 2023 09:20
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FirstnameLastname posted:it is non-western in form and structure, you can trace early pop music straight to blues, but not to anglo folk music in the same way im going to get into it again. pre-rock pop has more to do with showtunes and jazz than directly with the blues and both showtunes and (period) jazz are DEEPLY marinated in functional harmony with strong ties to european art music. rock and roll, in the 1950s so SUPER late, is when pop becomes obviously bluesy
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Dec 15, 2023 09:35
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Ohtori Akio posted:im going to get into it again. pre-rock pop has more to do with showtunes and jazz than directly with the blues and both showtunes and (period) jazz are DEEPLY marinated in functional harmony with strong ties to european art music. rock and roll, in the 1950s so SUPER late, is when pop becomes obviously bluesy you just said im right???
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Dec 15, 2023 10:39
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Dec 15, 2023 10:41
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i didnt
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Dec 15, 2023 10:49
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you said in the post "you can trace early pop directly to blues" but you cannot because its primarily from the european art and folk traditions at that point
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Dec 15, 2023 10:50
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stupid human being (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 15, 2023 10:50
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Ohtori Akio posted:you said in the post "you can trace early pop directly to blues" but you cannot because its primarily from the european art and folk traditions at that point as seen:
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Dec 15, 2023 10:53
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FirstnameLastname posted:pop didn't start til the 50s cant have pop w/o radio
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Dec 15, 2023 11:07
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Gat dang and I thought I was bad. Alright fuckos that's enough. Thanks for the cool insights everyone c: Edit >:c. Very well ProfessorBooty has issued a correction as of 15:47 on Dec 15, 2023 |
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Dec 15, 2023 11:09
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good morning
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Dec 15, 2023 14:34
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pop music didn't exist until they had enough radio stations to play different things on all of them
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Dec 15, 2023 14:39
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thinkin' about those diet cokes n 4/4 burgers
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Dec 18, 2023 03:08
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ProfessorBooty posted:Gat dang and I thought I was bad. i still think the first response you got was the most accurate one
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Dec 18, 2023 04:23
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FirstnameLastname posted:babies naturally sing pentatonic (5-tone) scales around the world I have really enjoyed your rant about the west African origins of hip hop but saying that is a direct continuation of the oldest natural form of music reminds me of nothing so much as those dudes who study an "uncontacted" hunter gatherer tribe in the Amazon whose ancestors were agriculturalists and use that to draw conclusions about societies in the paleolithic. Xaris posted:lol fnln did you think that child ballads were rock-a-bye-baby lullabies?? they should call them childe ballads so you know they are old timey
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Dec 18, 2023 05:18
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Dec 18, 2023 18:22
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she's right. time for a cspam field trip
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Dec 18, 2023 18:28
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chain restaurants are pay to play reeducation camps
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Dec 18, 2023 18:54
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JAY ZERO SUM GAME posted:chain restaurants are pay to play reeducation camps Deep
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Dec 18, 2023 18:55
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i also like peanuts
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Dec 18, 2023 19:02
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cash crab posted:i also like peanuts they slap pretty hard. it's extra cool when the shells are salted too
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Dec 18, 2023 19:08
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we have lots of cultures  
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Dec 18, 2023 19:33
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I also don't know the key to happiness but maybe fnln can tell us? perhaps it is found in west african traditional music?
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Dec 18, 2023 19:41
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cash crab posted:i also like peanuts! Fixed it.
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Dec 18, 2023 23:43
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2 tubs of butter for 4 or 5 biscuits lmao god drat
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Dec 18, 2023 23:45
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:2 tubs of butter for 4 or 5 biscuits lmao god drat It's whipped so there's a lot of air
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Dec 18, 2023 23:49
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