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JazzFlight posted:Did anyone else think it was really silly that the Native American griffin rider's home planet was some kind of Victorian England steampunk world where they wore bowler hats? What it tells you is that Tarak's shirtless dirty barbarian, free spirit, Space Conan persona is kind of a put-on. He's not the Griffin Whisperer because he's close to nature or shares a bond with the animals because they have so much in common, he's the Griffin Whisperer because he's a rich kid who grew up on a world where griffins are like thoroughbred horses and his family could afford lessons. That said, it's consistent with the idea, which he directly admits to in Scargiver, that he's been running away from his responsibilities and acting like he has no connection to his homeworld, and that if he lives through the current fight, he's going to try to change that. Jimbot posted:It's a lot less cynical than this. The princess is literally a magical disney princess. The royal family was the source of the military conquest - they weren't just passive observers. The king was the driving force of it until his magic disney daughter was born and was shown to bring back the dead. Kora says that she had a healing influence on her parents. I'm not sure what we're saying is all that different. I'm just saying the whole concept of a Disney Princess is reactionary.  I'd like to entertain the notion that it isn't being played 100% straight, but I honestly don't have a good argument for it from the movie we actually got. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Apr 21, 2024 |
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Apr 21, 2024 19:23
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JazzFlight posted:Also, this might be a bit of a stretch, but I got slight "Daily Wire movie without the overt racism/transphobia" vibes when all of the dying rebel soldiers in the village were basically heroic white American farmers with overalls/suspenders mixed with a bit of Norse/Viking overtones (which itself has some connection to modern neo-nazis). Like, if you took away the diverse casting of the seven samurai heroes, this could easily be a Daily Wire movie about the federal government stealing from "true Americans." If you want someone to remove all the non-white characters from a Zack Snyder movie I'm sure Joss Whedon isn't busy
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Apr 21, 2024 19:30
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I'm not sure what we're saying is all that different. I'm just saying the whole concept of a Disney Princess is reactionary. Fair but I just don't know what sort of point you're trying to make about it being "disconcerting" in response to a post trying to moralize their position by not so subtly trying to paint the film as ultra conservative if not for a few pesky details. The film isn't going to bat for any aspect of the empire save the princess herself.
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Apr 21, 2024 19:46
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Jimbot posted:Fair but I just don't know what sort of point you're trying to make about it being "disconcerting" in response to a post trying to moralize their position by not so subtly trying to paint the film as ultra conservative if not for a few pesky details. The film isn't going to bat for any aspect of the empire save the princess herself. I don't think the film is ultra-conservative. I do think it has something to say about people's motivations for revolution or political violence in general, on what is a lasting and durable cause vs. the sort of thing that might cause someone to fail or act with cowardice in a critical moment. The princess is part of that, along with Kora's near-surrender. I think the Netflix cut doesn't really give us enough for me to draw any clear conclusions, but I'm interested to see whether either a) I'm just missing something obvious or b) the director's cut gives us a clearer picture. e: Similarly, much as I like Snyder overall, I think his politics are mostly liberal and I'm skeptical about his ability to tell a story with a convincing theory of political power. The stuff that I've been talking about re: the depiction of the empire is promising! But it's also kind of low-hanging fruit, to be honest. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Apr 21, 2024 |
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Apr 21, 2024 19:51
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I know the goon response to any criticism of this movie is more "stop nitpicking / you're focusing on the wrong things / again with the grain???" so... Can I ask what the good parts of this movie are? Like, how is this a good movie? Any part of this that actually makes you think afterwards and come away with a new experience? I'm genuinely curious, because this movie has 18% on Rotten Tomatoes, so I don't think I'm alone in thinking it's bad?
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Apr 21, 2024 19:54
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I think it looks cool, and I also genuinely love Ed Skrein's performance as Noble. There are a lot of little physical things he does, the occasional sniff of disgust, pulling his uniform down to get the wrinkles out, the face he makes when he drops down into the tunnels to start killing rebels. He really sells the idea of this guy who's obsessed with the ideal of "discipline," who at once is just this raging psychopath but also wants to be patted on the head and rewarded for being a good boy. e: the costuming too: the suspenders, the planet of the bowler caps, the hideous military haircuts, all that poo poo rules Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Apr 21, 2024 |
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Apr 21, 2024 19:58
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JazzFlight posted:I'm genuinely curious, because this movie has 18% on Rotten Tomatoes, so I don't think I'm alone in thinking it's bad? Can't speak for anyone else but the minute you bring up the Tomatometer a huge door slams shut in my mind. I do not give a poo poo what a bunch of mediocrities whose sole common feature is 'will write about movies for a pittance" think - especially in the aggregate - and if you do it's a reveal that our Movie Mindsets have diverged so heavily that I can't take anything you say seriously anymore. Not quite as bad, but it reminds me of when a guy told me that "Raiders of the Lost Ark is a bad movie, actually" and suddenly everything they said afterwards sounds like the teacher noises from Charlie Brown.
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Apr 21, 2024 20:18
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It looks like this
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Apr 21, 2024 20:18
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JazzFlight posted:I know the goon response to any criticism of this movie is more "stop nitpicking / you're focusing on the wrong things / again with the grain???" so... It is not a good movie and is derivative of every other ww2 movie but with some heavy metal magazine vibes. I like snyder's other stuff much better. I guess i enjoyed the main character and the comically evil and ugly fascists like the dudes left in the village who were having a grand old time planning to gang rape the blonde girl. All the interesting stuff like the aliens and goddesses and crab tanks was wasted on making it a standard ww2 village defense scenario. I think if it leaned into the silly stuff like the coal powered space ship and over the top fascists it could have been better satire, or if it embraced the higher tech stuff like the goddesses and the androids it could have been a bit more interesting, instead we get this pile of stale mediocre tropes. Definitely a video game movie. Imagine an adaptation of Consider Phlebas done with this level of dedication to CGI and action sequences, it would be so much better than what Snyder cooked up here
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Apr 21, 2024 20:32
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JazzFlight posted:I know the goon response to any criticism of this movie is more "stop nitpicking / you're focusing on the wrong things / again with the grain???" so... I watch a bunch of old horror, action, and martial arts movies that don't exactly make me think beyond "That was a sick and fun movie" why would it bother me if Rebel Moon is giving me similar thoughts? Also who cares what Rotten Tomatoes thinks? I have not "agreed" with many of the 'tomatometer' ratings from the poor reviews Snyder generally gets to the praise for Marvel movies, Rian Johnson movies, and Everything Everywhere All at Once. Why should I care now? Roth fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Apr 21, 2024 |
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Apr 21, 2024 20:39
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I don't think the film is ultra-conservative. I do think it has something to say about people's motivations for revolution or political violence in general, on what is a lasting and durable cause vs. the sort of thing that might cause someone to fail or act with cowardice in a critical moment. The princess is part of that, along with Kora's near-surrender. I think the Netflix cut doesn't really give us enough for me to draw any clear conclusions, but I'm interested to see whether either a) I'm just missing something obvious or b) the director's cut gives us a clearer picture. Ah, I gotcha. I wasn't sure where you were coming from. I think the most important and relatable character for this is Milius because their backstory can be any one of us. They were part of a community that decided for them what the response to the empire was going to be and choosing to bend the knee caused them to be dispersed to the stars and those who couldn't work were purged. Then comes along the coolest revolutionary you've ever seen and you join up with them to fight against that empire, finding comradery. I think he does establish that the difference between those two ideas is the williness to overcome that fear and fighting for them or giving in and hoping to rely upon the mercy of psychopaths. JazzFlight posted:I know the goon response to any criticism of this movie is more "stop nitpicking / you're focusing on the wrong things / again with the grain???" so... I did this and I only did so because I got the distinct impression from your posts that you simply didn't care and was just around to rabble-rouse, so I was just treating them with due consideration. If that wasn't the case then I apologize. I like these films, not as much as his Superman films mind, because they are well shot and entertaining. The universe in these films is wonderfully weird. Some of the action does go overboard with the slo-mo but it's still shot and choreographed well. Where some people see flaws, I see as pluses. People are complaining/laughing at/thinking is stupid the whole farming stuff in the first half of part 2 but I find that great and enduring. For one, you won't see this sort of thing in a modern blockbuster, it won't take the time to show you how these farmers work and how this important thing, a thing in which they have "have a lot of loud sex in hopes of a bountiful harvest" ritual over, is done in glorious slow motion so you take in every single action. You just don't see choices like that. It'd be a minute long montage to some pop song from the last ten years and be over with. That's a valid way of doing it too, but this film wants to revel in this important event where the heroes help bring in the harvest. You don't see it often so it's seen as the "wrong" way of doing it and it just baffles me at how quick so many people are to adopt an genuinely incurious stance on art. These movies have a distinct look to them and the budget for them shows on screen. The last half war movie was incredibly well-shot and executed. Things were planned out, had stakes, it was a struggled and had all manner of defeats and victories. I've posted before I ultimately think these are above-average films. Snyder has done far better but I look at the RT score ( aggregate sites are poison) and I simply laugh. You look at the company a 18% keeps and this film isn't like any of those (arbitrary numerical scores are bad). I've seen snippets of some reviews too and it's the most cynical trash I've read. quote:There's a sequence where they harvest wheat. It's like Snyder saw DAYS OF HEAVEN and was like "I'll make this better!" He didn't. A professional critic wrote that. It's just so cynical. You used to just say "the way the backstories were set up to be delivered was clunky" (I can agree with this) or admit you didn't understand slow motion wheat harvesting instead of making up some strawman scenario that didn't happen to explain why it was there. Or simply say you didn't like it. So, I really don't put much stock in what critics have to say, even outside of Snyder's work. Overall, you like what you like and if you hated these films then more power to you. I just don't see the value raising questions about world or tech details you don't understand in ways that make it sound like it's a bunch of nonsense and in a way that makes it sound like you aren't at all interested in reading the answer.
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Apr 21, 2024 20:56
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it's fine. it's just a fine, decent, edited-to-poo poo movie. it is no worse than any other sci-fi action blockbuster and in some very specific ways much better compare directly with sequel trilogy Star Wars or the MCU. what was the grain discourse of those movies? what did goons say when you asked "why do you like these movies" then?
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Apr 21, 2024 21:38
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I got a question about Kora almost surrendering herself when Noble threatened the helpless people in the longhouse: What? It's just a house, in the village. The Empire has scanners, and are assholes. How did Kora not see this coming? Was this already an attempt by her to get on the ship, or was the plan truly that bad that it almost got foiled by the Most Obvious Move Ever?
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Apr 21, 2024 21:43
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Lt. Danger posted:it's fine. it's just a fine, decent, edited-to-poo poo movie. it is no worse than any other sci-fi action blockbuster and in some very specific ways much better i mean, nu-Star Wars definitely had discourse that took swirling ambiguous discontent with the series (some of it for justified reasons!) and then focused on completely irrelevant and contradictory details as a retroactive explanation -- it's just that the superficial explanation and outrage was mostly right-wing culture war poo poo, and CineD is, to its credit, mostly above that. e: the MCU on the other hand just tries desperately hard to never provoke or upset anyone Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Apr 21, 2024 |
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Apr 21, 2024 21:45
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Grendels Dad posted:I got a question about Kora almost surrendering herself when Noble threatened the helpless people in the longhouse: What? If I'm remembering the first film right, Kora thought that with Noble dead that no-one Imperial would know that she was the most wanted criminal in the galaxy. Him undeading himself means all their grain-based assumptions about how this will play out are wrong, so she panics.
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Apr 21, 2024 21:48
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josh04 posted:If I'm remembering the first film right, Kora thought that with Noble dead that no-one Imperial would know that she was the most wanted criminal in the galaxy. Him undeading himself means all their grain-based assumptions about how this will play out are wrong, so she panics. But the assault on the longhouse doesn't even have to involve Noble; it's just a reasonable assumption that the Empire would attack their weakest and most helpless people just to be dicks. Especially if you gather them all in one easily accessible spot. I guess Kora was thrown off by Noble's presence, but her and everybody's surprise at the attack doesn't make sense unless it was meant to be a trap for the Empire.
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Apr 21, 2024 21:56
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Oh right - Noble's talking about the women and children like they're helpless but we saw that they armed and trained everyone to fight anyway. I think Kora is thrown by the idea that she can sacrifice herself for the villagers, not that they were outflanked.
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Apr 21, 2024 22:03
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Well they have Nemisis guarding the long house. So it's not unprotected. Kora chooses to surrender because it suddenly becomes an option with Noble. They didn't plan for that to be an option. It's not just the longhouse, it's avoiding the battle all together since Noble values her so highly. Of course yeah there definitely would have been a betrayal.
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Apr 21, 2024 22:42
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Roth posted:I have not "agreed" with many of the 'tomatometer' ratings  Roth posted:to the praise for... ...Everything Everywhere All at Once. 
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Apr 21, 2024 23:04
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JazzFlight posted:Like, if you took away the diverse casting of the seven samurai heroes, this could easily be a Daily Wire movie about the federal government stealing from "true Americans." This is a wild read for me considering the text presents the folk on Veldt as some sort of hippie commune full of kinda weirdo sex and grain obsessed simpletons, lol.
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Apr 21, 2024 23:12
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Can't speak for anyone else but the minute you bring up the Tomatometer a huge door slams shut in my mind. I do not give a poo poo what a bunch of mediocrities whose sole common feature is 'will write about movies for a pittance" think - especially in the aggregate - and if you do it's a reveal that our Movie Mindsets have diverged so heavily that I can't take anything you say seriously anymore. Not quite as bad, but it reminds me of when a guy told me that "Raiders of the Lost Ark is a bad movie, actually" and suddenly everything they said afterwards sounds like the teacher noises from Charlie Brown.  
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Apr 21, 2024 23:15
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Haven't seen part 2 (holding out for the however-long cut) but I finished part 1 thinking the farmers were some kind of space Mennonites. While that's something very different from what most folks have in mind re: "true Americans," that ain't exactly a hippie commune.
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Apr 21, 2024 23:18
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People being kinda weirdly aggressively personal ITT. Tomato score is far from perfect but if there's better metric for what wider opinion of a movie is plz share. its just a movie. noones posting about the lil white cuck ball~
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Apr 21, 2024 23:24
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Tomato score is far from perfect but if there's better metric for what wider opinion of a movie is plz share. I’m not convinced it’s especially important to find the best source for“wide opinion of a movie” but it’s not like the Tomatometer even does that. It flattens critical writings into a “pass/fail” grade then gives you a percentage of how many critics rated it as “pass”. Which in this case means about 1 in 5 critics rated it anywhere from a B- to an A+ and the other 4 rated it a C+ or worse. Which…I’m not sure how helpful that actually is except people sure do love to post low scores as a dunk
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Apr 21, 2024 23:39
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The trick is to not really be concerned about or influenced by wider opinion. If something interests you and potentially aligns with stuff you like, check it out. If it ends up disappointing, oh well. Too much energy is wasted trying to dunk on poo poo, lol.
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Apr 21, 2024 23:46
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Needing to know a wide opinion measurement on a movie is for people who miss their daily dose of grain.
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Apr 21, 2024 23:55
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Schwarzwald posted:Haven't seen part 2 (holding out for the however-long cut) but I finished part 1 thinking the farmers were some kind of space Mennonites. While that's something very different from what most folks have in mind re: "true Americans," that ain't exactly a hippie commune. Yeah, I agree with this. I even said it at the time that they came off as conservative. Their weird sex rituals and only being formally allowed into the community by marrying into it, it's definitely not some hippie commune. It's no less deserving of help, though.
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Apr 22, 2024 00:05
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i liked this better than the first, but still felt pretty 'meh.' i give it 2.5 out of 5 grains.
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Apr 22, 2024 00:09
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Citizen, you have been observed enjoying a film with a low Tomatometer. How do you plead?
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Apr 22, 2024 00:11
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is this movie celiac friendly
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Apr 22, 2024 00:11
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Schwarzwald posted:Haven't seen part 2 (holding out for the however-long cut) but I finished part 1 thinking the farmers were some kind of space Mennonites. While that's something very different from what most folks have in mind re: "true Americans," that ain't exactly a hippie commune. Jimbot posted:Yeah, I agree with this. I even said it at the time that they came off as conservative. Their weird sex rituals and only being formally allowed into the community by marrying into it, it's definitely not some hippie commune. It's no less deserving of help, though. By hippie commune I meant the members making up that community come off as naive and free spirited/carefree, however you want to describe it. Bongo Bill posted:is this movie celiac friendly Movie is not gluten free.
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Apr 22, 2024 00:25
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What can I say, I don't like poo poo cinema and it really didn't make me think or feel like I watched a new experience that I couldn't get from Rick & Morty.
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Apr 22, 2024 00:34
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Guy A. Person posted:I’m not convinced it’s especially important to find the best source for“wide opinion of a movie” but it’s not like the Tomatometer even does that. It flattens critical writings into a “pass/fail” grade then gives you a percentage of how many critics rated it as “pass”. Which in this case means about 1 in 5 critics rated it anywhere from a B- to an A+ and the other 4 rated it a C+ or worse. Which…I’m not sure how helpful that actually is except people sure do love to post low scores as a dunk Personally, I don't like when people use the Rotten Tomatoes audience score as if it has much merit. Generally speaking, people are only going to review movies if they feel at the extremes. Either they extremely love it (or are a superfan in general) or they extremely hate it. Not much room for nuance. Generally speaking, I don't mind looking at the critic scores as those are people that are reviewing as part of their job. And sure, it's not going to be unbiased, but I mainly use it as a one stop reference for critics I'm familiar with to see how they react. Roth posted:What can I say, I don't like poo poo cinema and it really didn't make me think or feel like I watched a new experience that I couldn't get from Rick & Morty. 
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Apr 22, 2024 00:49
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I just realized the assassination orchestra was probably executed also. They wore the same hoods as Titus former troops before they ate orbital cannon.
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Apr 22, 2024 00:55
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Weirdly the best part of this was probably the strange chained furnace goddess that we didn't get to see anything of, and then the hyper gratuitous overlong harvesting scene. The problem is there's this weird universe and I want to see more of it, but we end up with a derivative seven samurai thing and the action isn't really all that engaging. Definitely better than Rise of Skywalker, but it's yet another Star Wars movie without an actual war in the stars.
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Apr 22, 2024 01:54
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Mordiceius posted:Personally, I don't like when people use the Rotten Tomatoes audience score as if it has much merit. Generally speaking, people are only going to review movies if they feel at the extremes. Either they extremely love it (or are a superfan in general) or they extremely hate it. Not much room for nuance. The RT audience score at the very least isn’t trying to disguise what it actually represents the way the critics score is treated as a “grade” by so many people, but yeah high-fiving over a 100% audience score before a movie is released is extremely dumb
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Apr 22, 2024 01:56
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Guy A. Person posted:The RT audience score at the very least isn’t trying to disguise what it actually represents the way the critics score is treated as a “grade” by so many people, but yeah high-fiving over a 100% audience score before a movie is released is extremely dumb Reviews for anything, be it movies, music, or games, is in an interesting place imo. Obviously, the best answer is to just go experience it yourself, but that’s not always a solution. I feel like reviews do have a bit of a purpose. “Should I spend the money to go see <movie> in theaters” “Should I get a sub for <service> to watch <show>.” You can’t necessarily go to a thread for said thing because it will be filled with fans that will obviously endorse it. Rotten Tomatoes isn’t better in that regard. Same with games. Can’t listen to YouTubers/Twitch streamer influencer types because they’re all marketing tools in the end. I’ve found the only solution is to find a critic that you can tolerate and follow them enough to “get” their biases then compare that to their reviews. Overkill, I know. In the end, a lot of people want quick feedback for “is this worth spending money on” and there isn’t an easy answer. 
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Apr 22, 2024 02:05
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At this point movie critics are all clout chasing failkids who desperately want to be ahead of the social media consensus and give the reviews they think make them look smart, not even what they actually think or feel.
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Apr 22, 2024 02:20
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the movie is clunky enough in this form that it tips over the edge to being hated by the vast majority of critics. Once again netflix shoots themselves in the foot.
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Apr 22, 2024 02:23
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:so just straightforwardly admitting "i don't like this so i'm going to play stupid about the themes on purpose?" And what happens to the chief medical officer who revives Noble? He gets a space bullet to the head. Such protocol is probably not good for knowledge transfer.
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Apr 22, 2024 02:44
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