jesus christ politics

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Dr. Killjoy: Oct 9, 2012

I�m seeing double here, four Marys!

# ? Dec 16, 2023 20:43

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 8, 2024 08:54

Red Baron: Mar 9, 2007; ty slumfrog

Azathoth posted:

The only time we see her in the Bible, she is one of a group of wealthy women who don't have mentioned husbands and who support Jesus financially. The church eventually decided that she must be a sex worker because how else could a woman be independent? Much more likely that she was a widow who decided not to remarry because she didn't need to.

Also, as a separate note, traditionally her name is taken to mean that she is from a town called Magdalene, which literally translated just means "fortress", but it is also possible that Magdalene is a name given to her by Jesus, just like he called Peter "rock" or two of his disciples the "sons of thunder". There's no way to know, but I like the idea that he considered Mary Magdalene his "fortress" and named her as such.

very interesting stuff. I always did wonder how shifting language over time might occlude the realities that the original authors were trying to portray.

War and Pieces posted:

She's conflated with unnamed prostitute who is also conflated with Mary the sister of Lazarus

clearly we have too many Marys, we need to switch to a numbering system

# ? Dec 16, 2023 21:13

Red Baron: Mar 9, 2007; ty slumfrog

also not enough time is spent on the story of Jesus murdering a child for being annoying and then bringing him back (perhaps begrudgingly) because his dad (the mortal one) told him it was very unchill and not at all like the Prince of Peace to just merc a five year old.

# ? Dec 16, 2023 21:15

Gumball Gumption: Jan 7, 2012

Azathoth posted:

The only time we see her in the Bible, she is one of a group of wealthy women who don't have mentioned husbands and who support Jesus financially. The church eventually decided that she must be a sex worker because how else could a woman be independent? Much more likely that she was a widow who decided not to remarry because she didn't need to.

Also, as a separate note, traditionally her name is taken to mean that she is from a town called Magdalene, which literally translated just means "fortress", but it is also possible that Magdalene is a name given to her by Jesus, just like he called Peter "rock" or two of his disciples the "sons of thunder". There's no way to know, but I like the idea that he considered Mary Magdalene his "fortress" and named her as such.

Pope Gregory didn't read his Bible right and really hosed up her rep

# ? Dec 16, 2023 21:44

VROOM VROOM: Jun 8, 2005

Red Baron posted:

also not enough time is spent on the story of Jesus murdering a child for being annoying and then bringing him back (perhaps begrudgingly) because his dad (the mortal one) told him it was very unchill and not at all like the Prince of Peace to just merc a five year old.

dr manhattan politics

# ? Dec 16, 2023 22:23

lobster shirt: Jun 14, 2021

Dr Pepper posted:

Remember to beat capitalists with a whip to follow Jesus's example.

there were no capitalists during the time of jesus christ

# ? Dec 16, 2023 22:38

Second Hand Meat Mouth: Sep 12, 2001

lobster shirt posted:

there were no capitalists during the time of jesus christ

correct - because He beat them into submission

# ? Dec 16, 2023 22:41

Jabberlock: Nov 29, 2014

jesus loving christ i'm sick of all these politics

# ? Dec 16, 2023 22:44

Private Cumshoe: Feb 15, 2019; AAAAAAAGAGHAAHGGAH

lobster shirt posted:

there were no capitalists during the time of jesus christ

Maybe that's why he failed

# ? Dec 16, 2023 23:09

Lord of Pie: Mar 2, 2007

Dr. Killjoy posted:

I�m seeing double here, four Marys!

Every society in Bible times had like three officially mandated girl names

# ? Dec 16, 2023 23:10

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

Megamissen posted:

did jesus practice as a carpenter at all?
having a footstool made by them seems like a fun thing for a medieval cathedral to have

Yes but sadly he was a scab

# ? Dec 16, 2023 23:15

dieselfruit: Feb 21, 2013

Red Baron posted:

also not enough time is spent on the story of Jesus murdering a child for being annoying and then bringing him back (perhaps begrudgingly) because his dad (the mortal one) told him it was very unchill and not at all like the Prince of Peace to just merc a five year old.

#ReleaseTheSynodCut

# ? Dec 16, 2023 23:32

Azathoth: Apr 3, 2001

Red Baron posted:

very interesting stuff. I always did wonder how shifting language over time might occlude the realities that the original authors were trying to portray.

clearly we have too many Marys, we need to switch to a numbering system

One of the best examples of this is the virgin birth narrative. Only two of the four Gospels have a birth narrative but both insist on Jesus' birth being miraculous and Matthew explicitly points to it fulfilling a prophecy from Isaiah.

Thing is... that's not what the prophecy from Isaiah says. The word that Matthew understood to translate as "virgin" simply means "young woman". There's a separate word for virgin and it doesn't use that word, but people of the day and for a very long time after understood it to be virgin when all it meant was someone young. Oops.

# ? Dec 16, 2023 23:40

Second Hand Meat Mouth: Sep 12, 2001

lol there's a billion of those, too, though many aren't as... fundamental as that one. like even "moses parted the red sea" isn't a thing

# ? Dec 17, 2023 00:00

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

i thought it was funny how John the 4Runner starts leaping in his mom's womb when Mary says she's pregnant. unfortunate it's a favorite of antiabortion activists.

# ? Dec 17, 2023 00:07

Weka: May 5, 2019; That child totally had it coming. Nobody should be able to be out at dusk except cars.

lobster shirt posted:

there were no capitalists during the time of jesus christ

that's because it's too hard to pull yourself up with only sandal straps

# ? Dec 17, 2023 01:34

Mr. Sharps: Jul 30, 2006; The only true law is that which leads to freedom. There is no other.

jesus was an absolutely dog poo poo carpenter

# ? Dec 17, 2023 04:47

Jabberlock: Nov 29, 2014

Mr. Sharps posted:

jesus was an absolutely dog poo poo carpenter

lucky for him he could do miracles and poo poo

# ? Dec 17, 2023 05:13

Second Hand Meat Mouth: Sep 12, 2001

Mr. Sharps posted:

jesus was an absolutely dog poo poo carpenter

and poster

# ? Dec 17, 2023 06:14

Private Cumshoe: Feb 15, 2019; AAAAAAAGAGHAAHGGAH

Mr. Sharps posted:

jesus was an absolutely dog poo poo carpenter

people misinterpret this one all the time he was really, really good at making useful things out of dogshit, loaves and fishes out of nothing, etc.

# ? Dec 17, 2023 06:27

Milo and POTUS: Sep 3, 2017; I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation I have. I built a shrine in my room for the yellow one who died because sadly no one noticed because she died around 9/11. Wanna see it?

Mr. Sharps posted:

jesus was an absolutely dog poo poo carpenter

He kept making shoddy crosses and that's the real reason he was crucified

# ? Dec 17, 2023 06:38

Charlatan Eschaton: Feb 23, 2018

last name meaning fortress, first name from the word for pyramid. sounds like a powerful lady

# ? Dec 17, 2023 14:33

121723: Dec 17, 2023

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Dec 17, 2023 18:44

War and Pieces: Apr 24, 2022; DID NOT VOTE FOR FETTERMAN

Azathoth posted:

One of the best examples of this is the virgin birth narrative. Only two of the four Gospels have a birth narrative but both insist on Jesus' birth being miraculous and Matthew explicitly points to it fulfilling a prophecy from Isaiah.

Thing is... that's not what the prophecy from Isaiah says. The word that Matthew understood to translate as "virgin" simply means "young woman". There's a separate word for virgin and it doesn't use that word, but people of the day and for a very long time after understood it to be virgin when all it meant was someone young. Oops.

what's the word they use in the Septuagint? And does that have a double meaning?

# ? Dec 17, 2023 19:54

Mr. Sharps: Jul 30, 2006; The only true law is that which leads to freedom. There is no other.

Second Hand Meat Mouth posted:

and poster

permaban annulled after only three days but he never stopped posting under his alt

# ? Dec 17, 2023 19:57

Second Hand Meat Mouth: Sep 12, 2001

Mr. Sharps posted:

permaban annulled after only three days but he never stopped posting under his alt

yeah but wasn't his alt an admin lol

# ? Dec 17, 2023 20:37

Red Baron: Mar 9, 2007; ty slumfrog

the time has finally come for us to address the most pressing issue Jesus of Nazareth left us to handle in His stead:

eradicating all the loving fig trees

# ? Dec 17, 2023 20:43

Venomous: Nov 7, 2011

Megamissen posted:

did jesus practice as a carpenter at all?
having a footstool made by them seems like a fun thing for a medieval cathedral to have

well, we know he made a cup one time,

# ? Dec 17, 2023 20:43

Weka: May 5, 2019; That child totally had it coming. Nobody should be able to be out at dusk except cars.

Charlatan Eschaton posted:

last name meaning fortress, first name from the word for pyramid. sounds like a powerful lady

Thank you for this interesting link. I'm excited to learn what these pyramid things are.

# ? Dec 17, 2023 20:59

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

Weka posted:

Thank you for this interesting link. I'm excited to learn what these pyramid things are.

# ? Dec 17, 2023 22:57

lobster shirt: Jun 14, 2021

I

Because I do not hope to turn again
Because I do not hope
Because I do not hope to turn
Desiring this man's gift and that man's scope
I no longer strive to strive towards such things
(Why should the ag�d eagle stretch its wings?)
Why should I mourn
The vanished power of the usual reign?

Because I do not hope to know
The infirm glory of the positive hour
Because I do not think
Because I know I shall not know
The one veritable transitory power
Because I cannot drink
There, where trees flower, and springs flow, for there is
nothing again

Because I know that time is always time
And place is always and only place
And what is actual is actual only for one time
And only for one place
I rejoice that things are as they are and
I renounce the bless�d face
And renounce the voice
Because I cannot hope to turn again
Consequently I rejoice, having to construct something
Upon which to rejoice

And pray to God to have mercy upon us
And pray that I may forget
These matters that with myself I too much discuss
Too much explain
Because I do not hope to turn again
Let these words answer
For what is done, not to be done again
May the judgement not be too heavy upon us

Because these wings are no longer wings to fly
But merely vans to beat the air
The air which is now thoroughly small and dry
Smaller and dryer than the will
Teach us to care and not to care Teach us to sit still.

Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death
Pray for us now and at the hour of our death.

II
Lady, three white leopards sat under a juniper-tree
In the cool of the day, having fed to sateity
On my legs my heart my liver and that which had been
contained
In the hollow round of my skull. And God said
Shall these bones live? shall these
Bones live? And that which had been contained
In the bones (which were already dry) said chirping:
Because of the goodness of this Lady
And because of her loveliness, and because
She honours the Virgin in meditation,
We shine with brightness. And I who am here dissembled
Proffer my deeds to oblivion, and my love
To the posterity of the desert and the fruit of the gourd.
It is this which recovers
My guts the strings of my eyes and the indigestible portions
Which the leopards reject. The Lady is withdrawn
In a white gown, to contemplation, in a white gown.
Let the whiteness of bones atone to forgetfulness.
There is no life in them. As I am forgotten
And would be forgotten, so I would forget
Thus devoted, concentrated in purpose. And God said
Prophesy to the wind, to the wind only for only
The wind will listen. And the bones sang chirping
With the burden of the grasshopper, saying

Lady of silences
Calm and distressed
Torn and most whole
Rose of memory
Rose of forgetfulness
Exhausted and life-giving
Worried reposeful
The single Rose
Is now the Garden
Where all loves end
Terminate torment
Of love unsatisfied
The greater torment
Of love satisfied
End of the endless
Journey to no end
Conclusion of all that
Is inconclusible
Speech without word and
Word of no speech
Grace to the Mother
For the Garden
Where all love ends.

Under a juniper-tree the bones sang, scattered and shining
We are glad to be scattered, we did little good to each
other,
Under a tree in the cool of day, with the blessing of sand,
Forgetting themselves and each other, united
In the quiet of the desert. This is the land which ye
Shall divide by lot. And neither division nor unity
Matters. This is the land. We have our inheritance.

III

At the first turning of the second stair
I turned and saw below
The same shape twisted on the banister
Under the vapour in the fetid air
Struggling with the devil of the stairs who wears
The deceitul face of hope and of despair.

At the second turning of the second stair
I left them twisting, turning below;
There were no more faces and the stair was dark,
Damp, jagg�d, like an old man's mouth drivelling, beyond
repair,
Or the toothed gullet of an ag�d shark.

At the first turning of the third stair
Was a slotted window bellied like the figs's fruit
And beyond the hawthorn blossom and a pasture scene
The broadbacked figure drest in blue and green
Enchanted the maytime with an antique flute.
Blown hair is sweet, brown hair over the mouth blown,
Lilac and brown hair;
Distraction, music of the flute, stops and steps of the mind
over the third stair,
Fading, fading; strength beyond hope and despair
Climbing the third stair.

Lord, I am not worthy
Lord, I am not worthy

but speak the word only.

IV
Who walked between the violet and the violet
Whe walked between
The various ranks of varied green
Going in white and blue, in Mary's colour,
Talking of trivial things
In ignorance and knowledge of eternal dolour
Who moved among the others as they walked,
Who then made strong the fountains and made fresh the springs

Made cool the dry rock and made firm the sand
In blue of larkspur, blue of Mary's colour,
Sovegna vos

Here are the years that walk between, bearing
Away the fiddles and the flutes, restoring
One who moves in the time between sleep and waking, wearing

White light folded, sheathing about her, folded.
The new years walk, restoring
Through a bright cloud of tears, the years, restoring
With a new verse the ancient rhyme. Redeem
The time. Redeem
The unread vision in the higher dream
While jewelled unicorns draw by the gilded hearse.

The silent sister veiled in white and blue
Between the yews, behind the garden god,
Whose flute is breathless, bent her head and signed but spoke
no word

But the fountain sprang up and the bird sang down
Redeem the time, redeem the dream
The token of the word unheard, unspoken

Till the wind shake a thousand whispers from the yew

And after this our exile

V
If the lost word is lost, if the spent word is spent
If the unheard, unspoken
Word is unspoken, unheard;
Still is the unspoken word, the Word unheard,
The Word without a word, the Word within
The world and for the world;
And the light shone in darkness and
Against the Word the unstilled world still whirled
About the centre of the silent Word.

O my people, what have I done unto thee.

Where shall the word be found, where will the word
Resound? Not here, there is not enough silence
Not on the sea or on the islands, not
On the mainland, in the desert or the rain land,
For those who walk in darkness
Both in the day time and in the night time
The right time and the right place are not here
No place of grace for those who avoid the face
No time to rejoice for those who walk among noise and deny
the voice

Will the veiled sister pray for
Those who walk in darkness, who chose thee and oppose thee,
Those who are torn on the horn between season and season,
time and time, between
Hour and hour, word and word, power and power, those who wait
In darkness? Will the veiled sister pray
For children at the gate
Who will not go away and cannot pray:
Pray for those who chose and oppose

O my people, what have I done unto thee.

Will the veiled sister between the slender
Yew trees pray for those who offend her
And are terrified and cannot surrender
And affirm before the world and deny between the rocks
In the last desert before the last blue rocks
The desert in the garden the garden in the desert
Of drouth, spitting from the mouth the withered apple-seed.

O my people.

VI
Although I do not hope to turn again
Although I do not hope
Although I do not hope to turn

Wavering between the profit and the loss
In this brief transit where the dreams cross
The dreamcrossed twilight between birth and dying
(Bless me father) though I do not wish to wish these things
From the wide window towards the granite shore
The white sails still fly seaward, seaward flying
Unbroken wings

And the lost heart stiffens and rejoices
In the lost lilac and the lost sea voices
And the weak spirit quickens to rebel
For the bent golden-rod and the lost sea smell
Quickens to recover
The cry of quail and the whirling plover
And the blind eye creates
The empty forms between the ivory gates
And smell renews the salt savour of the sandy earth

This is the time of tension between dying and birth
The place of solitude where three dreams cross
Between blue rocks
But when the voices shaken from the yew-tree drift away
Let the other yew be shaken and reply.

Bless�d sister, holy mother, spirit of the fountain, spirit
of the garden,
Suffer us not to mock ourselves with falsehood
Teach us to care and not to care
Teach us to sit still
Even among these rocks,
Our peace in His will
And even among these rocks
Sister, mother
And spirit of the river, spirit of the sea,
Suffer me not to be separated

And let my cry come unto Thee.

# ? Dec 18, 2023 04:37

Ohtori Akio: Jul 15, 2022

lobster shirt posted:

I

Because I do not hope to turn again
Because I do not hope
Because I do not hope to turn
Desiring this man's gift and that man's scope
I no longer strive to strive towards such things
(Why should the ag�d eagle stretch its wings?)
Why should I mourn
The vanished power of the usual reign?

Because I do not hope to know
The infirm glory of the positive hour
Because I do not think
Because I know I shall not know
The one veritable transitory power
Because I cannot drink
There, where trees flower, and springs flow, for there is
nothing again

Because I know that time is always time
And place is always and only place
And what is actual is actual only for one time
And only for one place
I rejoice that things are as they are and
I renounce the bless�d face
And renounce the voice
Because I cannot hope to turn again
Consequently I rejoice, having to construct something
Upon which to rejoice

And pray to God to have mercy upon us
And pray that I may forget
These matters that with myself I too much discuss
Too much explain
Because I do not hope to turn again
Let these words answer
For what is done, not to be done again
May the judgement not be too heavy upon us

Because these wings are no longer wings to fly
But merely vans to beat the air
The air which is now thoroughly small and dry
Smaller and dryer than the will
Teach us to care and not to care Teach us to sit still.

Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death
Pray for us now and at the hour of our death.

II
Lady, three white leopards sat under a juniper-tree
In the cool of the day, having fed to sateity
On my legs my heart my liver and that which had been
contained
In the hollow round of my skull. And God said
Shall these bones live? shall these
Bones live? And that which had been contained
In the bones (which were already dry) said chirping:
Because of the goodness of this Lady
And because of her loveliness, and because
She honours the Virgin in meditation,
We shine with brightness. And I who am here dissembled
Proffer my deeds to oblivion, and my love
To the posterity of the desert and the fruit of the gourd.
It is this which recovers
My guts the strings of my eyes and the indigestible portions
Which the leopards reject. The Lady is withdrawn
In a white gown, to contemplation, in a white gown.
Let the whiteness of bones atone to forgetfulness.
There is no life in them. As I am forgotten
And would be forgotten, so I would forget
Thus devoted, concentrated in purpose. And God said
Prophesy to the wind, to the wind only for only
The wind will listen. And the bones sang chirping
With the burden of the grasshopper, saying

Lady of silences
Calm and distressed
Torn and most whole
Rose of memory
Rose of forgetfulness
Exhausted and life-giving
Worried reposeful
The single Rose
Is now the Garden
Where all loves end
Terminate torment
Of love unsatisfied
The greater torment
Of love satisfied
End of the endless
Journey to no end
Conclusion of all that
Is inconclusible
Speech without word and
Word of no speech
Grace to the Mother
For the Garden
Where all love ends.

Under a juniper-tree the bones sang, scattered and shining
We are glad to be scattered, we did little good to each
other,
Under a tree in the cool of day, with the blessing of sand,
Forgetting themselves and each other, united
In the quiet of the desert. This is the land which ye
Shall divide by lot. And neither division nor unity
Matters. This is the land. We have our inheritance.

III

At the first turning of the second stair
I turned and saw below
The same shape twisted on the banister
Under the vapour in the fetid air
Struggling with the devil of the stairs who wears
The deceitul face of hope and of despair.

At the second turning of the second stair
I left them twisting, turning below;
There were no more faces and the stair was dark,
Damp, jagg�d, like an old man's mouth drivelling, beyond
repair,
Or the toothed gullet of an ag�d shark.

At the first turning of the third stair
Was a slotted window bellied like the figs's fruit
And beyond the hawthorn blossom and a pasture scene
The broadbacked figure drest in blue and green
Enchanted the maytime with an antique flute.
Blown hair is sweet, brown hair over the mouth blown,
Lilac and brown hair;
Distraction, music of the flute, stops and steps of the mind
over the third stair,
Fading, fading; strength beyond hope and despair
Climbing the third stair.

Lord, I am not worthy
Lord, I am not worthy

but speak the word only.

IV
Who walked between the violet and the violet
Whe walked between
The various ranks of varied green
Going in white and blue, in Mary's colour,
Talking of trivial things
In ignorance and knowledge of eternal dolour
Who moved among the others as they walked,
Who then made strong the fountains and made fresh the springs

Made cool the dry rock and made firm the sand
In blue of larkspur, blue of Mary's colour,
Sovegna vos

Here are the years that walk between, bearing
Away the fiddles and the flutes, restoring
One who moves in the time between sleep and waking, wearing

White light folded, sheathing about her, folded.
The new years walk, restoring
Through a bright cloud of tears, the years, restoring
With a new verse the ancient rhyme. Redeem
The time. Redeem
The unread vision in the higher dream
While jewelled unicorns draw by the gilded hearse.

The silent sister veiled in white and blue
Between the yews, behind the garden god,
Whose flute is breathless, bent her head and signed but spoke
no word

But the fountain sprang up and the bird sang down
Redeem the time, redeem the dream
The token of the word unheard, unspoken

Till the wind shake a thousand whispers from the yew

And after this our exile

V
If the lost word is lost, if the spent word is spent
If the unheard, unspoken
Word is unspoken, unheard;
Still is the unspoken word, the Word unheard,
The Word without a word, the Word within
The world and for the world;
And the light shone in darkness and
Against the Word the unstilled world still whirled
About the centre of the silent Word.

O my people, what have I done unto thee.

Where shall the word be found, where will the word
Resound? Not here, there is not enough silence
Not on the sea or on the islands, not
On the mainland, in the desert or the rain land,
For those who walk in darkness
Both in the day time and in the night time
The right time and the right place are not here
No place of grace for those who avoid the face
No time to rejoice for those who walk among noise and deny
the voice

Will the veiled sister pray for
Those who walk in darkness, who chose thee and oppose thee,
Those who are torn on the horn between season and season,
time and time, between
Hour and hour, word and word, power and power, those who wait
In darkness? Will the veiled sister pray
For children at the gate
Who will not go away and cannot pray:
Pray for those who chose and oppose

O my people, what have I done unto thee.

Will the veiled sister between the slender
Yew trees pray for those who offend her
And are terrified and cannot surrender
And affirm before the world and deny between the rocks
In the last desert before the last blue rocks
The desert in the garden the garden in the desert
Of drouth, spitting from the mouth the withered apple-seed.

O my people.

VI
Although I do not hope to turn again
Although I do not hope
Although I do not hope to turn

Wavering between the profit and the loss
In this brief transit where the dreams cross
The dreamcrossed twilight between birth and dying
(Bless me father) though I do not wish to wish these things
From the wide window towards the granite shore
The white sails still fly seaward, seaward flying
Unbroken wings

And the lost heart stiffens and rejoices
In the lost lilac and the lost sea voices
And the weak spirit quickens to rebel
For the bent golden-rod and the lost sea smell
Quickens to recover
The cry of quail and the whirling plover
And the blind eye creates
The empty forms between the ivory gates
And smell renews the salt savour of the sandy earth

This is the time of tension between dying and birth
The place of solitude where three dreams cross
Between blue rocks
But when the voices shaken from the yew-tree drift away
Let the other yew be shaken and reply.

Bless�d sister, holy mother, spirit of the fountain, spirit
of the garden,
Suffer us not to mock ourselves with falsehood
Teach us to care and not to care
Teach us to sit still
Even among these rocks,
Our peace in His will
And even among these rocks
Sister, mother
And spirit of the river, spirit of the sea,
Suffer me not to be separated

And let my cry come unto Thee.

didn't read

# ? Dec 18, 2023 05:39

Second Hand Meat Mouth: Sep 12, 2001

lobster shirt posted:

I

Because I do not hope to turn again
Because I do not hope
Because I do not hope to turn
Desiring this man's gift and that man's scope
I no longer strive to strive towards such things
(Why should the agèd eagle stretch its wings?)
Why should I mourn
The vanished power of the usual reign?

Because I do not hope to know
The infirm glory of the positive hour
Because I do not think
Because I know I shall not know
The one veritable transitory power
Because I cannot drink
There, where trees flower, and springs flow, for there is
nothing again

Because I know that time is always time
And place is always and only place
And what is actual is actual only for one time
And only for one place
I rejoice that things are as they are and
I renounce the blessèd face
And renounce the voice
Because I cannot hope to turn again
Consequently I rejoice, having to construct something
Upon which to rejoice

And pray to God to have mercy upon us
And pray that I may forget
These matters that with myself I too much discuss
Too much explain
Because I do not hope to turn again
Let these words answer
For what is done, not to be done again
May the judgement not be too heavy upon us

Because these wings are no longer wings to fly
But merely vans to beat the air
The air which is now thoroughly small and dry
Smaller and dryer than the will
Teach us to care and not to care Teach us to sit still.

Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death
Pray for us now and at the hour of our death.

II
Lady, three white leopards sat under a juniper-tree
In the cool of the day, having fed to sateity
On my legs my heart my liver and that which had been
contained
In the hollow round of my skull. And God said
Shall these bones live? shall these
Bones live? And that which had been contained
In the bones (which were already dry) said chirping:
Because of the goodness of this Lady
And because of her loveliness, and because
She honours the Virgin in meditation,
We shine with brightness. And I who am here dissembled
Proffer my deeds to oblivion, and my love
To the posterity of the desert and the fruit of the gourd.
It is this which recovers
My guts the strings of my eyes and the indigestible portions
Which the leopards reject. The Lady is withdrawn
In a white gown, to contemplation, in a white gown.
Let the whiteness of bones atone to forgetfulness.
There is no life in them. As I am forgotten
And would be forgotten, so I would forget
Thus devoted, concentrated in purpose. And God said
Prophesy to the wind, to the wind only for only
The wind will listen. And the bones sang chirping
With the burden of the grasshopper, saying

Lady of silences
Calm and distressed
Torn and most whole
Rose of memory
Rose of forgetfulness
Exhausted and life-giving
Worried reposeful
The single Rose
Is now the Garden
Where all loves end
Terminate torment
Of love unsatisfied
The greater torment
Of love satisfied
End of the endless
Journey to no end
Conclusion of all that
Is inconclusible
Speech without word and
Word of no speech
Grace to the Mother
For the Garden
Where all love ends.

Under a juniper-tree the bones sang, scattered and shining
We are glad to be scattered, we did little good to each
other,
Under a tree in the cool of day, with the blessing of sand,
Forgetting themselves and each other, united
In the quiet of the desert. This is the land which ye
Shall divide by lot. And neither division nor unity
Matters. This is the land. We have our inheritance.

III

At the first turning of the second stair
I turned and saw below
The same shape twisted on the banister
Under the vapour in the fetid air
Struggling with the devil of the stairs who wears
The deceitul face of hope and of despair.

At the second turning of the second stair
I left them twisting, turning below;
There were no more faces and the stair was dark,
Damp, jaggèd, like an old man's mouth drivelling, beyond
repair,
Or the toothed gullet of an agèd shark.

At the first turning of the third stair
Was a slotted window bellied like the figs's fruit
And beyond the hawthorn blossom and a pasture scene
The broadbacked figure drest in blue and green
Enchanted the maytime with an antique flute.
Blown hair is sweet, brown hair over the mouth blown,
Lilac and brown hair;
Distraction, music of the flute, stops and steps of the mind
over the third stair,
Fading, fading; strength beyond hope and despair
Climbing the third stair.

Lord, I am not worthy
Lord, I am not worthy

but speak the word only.

IV
Who walked between the violet and the violet
Whe walked between
The various ranks of varied green
Going in white and blue, in Mary's colour,
Talking of trivial things
In ignorance and knowledge of eternal dolour
Who moved among the others as they walked,
Who then made strong the fountains and made fresh the springs

Made cool the dry rock and made firm the sand
In blue of larkspur, blue of Mary's colour,
Sovegna vos

Here are the years that walk between, bearing
Away the fiddles and the flutes, restoring
One who moves in the time between sleep and waking, wearing

White light folded, sheathing about her, folded.
The new years walk, restoring
Through a bright cloud of tears, the years, restoring
With a new verse the ancient rhyme. Redeem
The time. Redeem
The unread vision in the higher dream
While jewelled unicorns draw by the gilded hearse.

The silent sister veiled in white and blue
Between the yews, behind the garden god,
Whose flute is breathless, bent her head and signed but spoke
no word

But the fountain sprang up and the bird sang down
Redeem the time, redeem the dream
The token of the word unheard, unspoken

Till the wind shake a thousand whispers from the yew

And after this our exile

V
If the lost word is lost, if the spent word is spent
If the unheard, unspoken
Word is unspoken, unheard;
Still is the unspoken word, the Word unheard,
The Word without a word, the Word within
The world and for the world;
And the light shone in darkness and
Against the Word the unstilled world still whirled
About the centre of the silent Word.

O my people, what have I done unto thee.

Where shall the word be found, where will the word
Resound? Not here, there is not enough silence
Not on the sea or on the islands, not
On the mainland, in the desert or the rain land,
For those who walk in darkness
Both in the day time and in the night time
The right time and the right place are not here
No place of grace for those who avoid the face
No time to rejoice for those who walk among noise and deny
the voice

Will the veiled sister pray for
Those who walk in darkness, who chose thee and oppose thee,
Those who are torn on the horn between season and season,
time and time, between
Hour and hour, word and word, power and power, those who wait
In darkness? Will the veiled sister pray
For children at the gate
Who will not go away and cannot pray:
Pray for those who chose and oppose

O my people, what have I done unto thee.

Will the veiled sister between the slender
Yew trees pray for those who offend her
And are terrified and cannot surrender
And affirm before the world and deny between the rocks
In the last desert before the last blue rocks
The desert in the garden the garden in the desert
Of drouth, spitting from the mouth the withered apple-seed.

O my people.

VI
Although I do not hope to turn again
Although I do not hope
Although I do not hope to turn

Wavering between the profit and the loss
In this brief transit where the dreams cross
The dreamcrossed twilight between birth and dying
(Bless me father) though I do not wish to wish these things
From the wide window towards the granite shore
The white sails still fly seaward, seaward flying
Unbroken wings

And the lost heart stiffens and rejoices
In the lost lilac and the lost sea voices
And the weak spirit quickens to rebel
For the bent golden-rod and the lost sea smell
Quickens to recover
The cry of quail and the whirling plover
And the blind eye creates
The empty forms between the ivory gates
And smell renews the salt savour of the sandy earth

This is the time of tension between dying and birth
The place of solitude where three dreams cross
Between blue rocks
But when the voices shaken from the yew-tree drift away
Let the other yew be shaken and reply.

Blessèd sister, holy mother, spirit of the fountain, spirit
of the garden,
Suffer us not to mock ourselves with falsehood
Teach us to care and not to care
Teach us to sit still
Even among these rocks,
Our peace in His will
And even among these rocks
Sister, mother
And spirit of the river, spirit of the sea,
Suffer me not to be separated

And let my cry come unto Thee.

jesus christ

# ? Dec 18, 2023 05:52

fanfic insert: Nov 4, 2009

jesus was a mason

# ? Dec 18, 2023 06:50

Crazypoops: Jul 17, 2017

How much do I have to pay Jesus to gently caress me

# ? Dec 18, 2023 06:56

Venomous: Nov 7, 2011

more like bs eliot

# ? Dec 18, 2023 15:49

Pepe Silvia Browne: Jan 1, 2007

Azathoth posted:

The word that gets translated as carpenter is "tekton", which doesn't really mean what we think of today as a carpenter. Its meaning is closer to a construction worker or a day laborer than an artisan craftsman. It's one of those things like Mary Magdalene being a prostitute, it isn't historically accurate but it's been tradition for so long that challenging it is basically impossible.

hmmmmmmmm she was a prostitute tho it's better for the story

# ? Dec 18, 2023 15:52

lobster shirt: Jun 14, 2021

Ohtori Akio posted:

didn't read

i did,many times

# ? Dec 18, 2023 15:56

Ohtori Akio: Jul 15, 2022

the general point of the magdalene prostitute lore is to convey the well attested fact that jesus did not treat sex workers as subhuman and in fact hung out with them all the time. so its not a huge deal imo

# ? Dec 18, 2023 16:37

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 8, 2024 08:54

Xaris: Jul 25, 2006; Lucky there's a family guy
Lucky there's a man who positively can do
All the things that make us
Laugh and cry

hmm but did Jesus bring them lasagna..? heavy is the iron crown

# ? Dec 18, 2023 17:41

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