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A big flaming stink posted:https://twitter.com/kyronsamuels/status/1739478180774158781 He's really good, OP.
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Dec 26, 2023 16:37
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abelwingnut posted:as long as tyreek's been healthy, i can't say he's had a boneheaded game. he just straight-up delivers everytime. that speed is just impossible to defend. any team with him is a playoff team, at the very least. is that the same with lamar? Hill choked in Tom Brady's last superbowl victory.
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Dec 26, 2023 17:06
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R.D. Mangles posted:PUT DEVIN HESTER IN THE loving HALL OF FAME
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Dec 28, 2023 15:18
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Hester’s opening kickoff return in the superbowl as a rookie is enough in my mind to say he was special.
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Dec 28, 2023 15:30
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Shindragon posted:Hester was insane. He made you pay if you kick it to him. Also nobody will ever touch that record. This. He changed the game by being on the field. Teams had to specifically gameplan around him. When you have to shift your entire gameplan up to account for one dude, that dude is something remarkable. Devin Hester was an ok WR. He's the best punt returner in NFL history in the way that Jerry Rice hangs over every other WR. No one cares about who is back there returning punts 99% of the time. Hester was that 1%. He had the power to change games by himself, and he frequently did so. He played a massive part in the bears super bowl season (his rookie year, I might add) and was critical to their success in any win where he returned balls. Hester was something special, and he should be in the HoF as a special teams returner. Even if they never add anyone else in that category it will be fine, because there hasn't ever been a Devin Hester and in the years since he left the league, no one close has emerged.
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Dec 28, 2023 19:48
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Doltos posted:Are you kidding me What you posted says hester is #1 at overall return TDs counting kickoff and punt, is so far ahead on punt returns no one will ever touch him, and his overall return yardage (which really should be looked at as yards/attempt) is near the top of all time.
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Dec 28, 2023 20:25
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Ok I actually downloaded and crunched all the numbers. There are 39 people who are on the pro football stats page that have both kickoff and punt returns for touchdown. Top all time yards per punt return: pre:Player punt Rt Yds ret yds/punt Billy Johnson 282 3317 11.76241135 Devin Hester 315 3695 11.73015873 Mel Gray 252 2753 10.92460317 Brian Mitchell 463 4999 10.79697624 Jo-Jo Townsell 127 1360 10.70866142 Josh Cribbs 222 2375 10.6981982 Dave Meggett 349 3708 10.62464183 Dante Hall 216 2261 10.46759259 Deion Sanders+ 212 2199 10.37264151 Jakeem Grant 119 1228 10.31932773 pre:Player punt Rt tds tds/punt ret Devin Hester 315 14 0.044444444 Jakeem Grant 119 4 0.033613445 Jamal Agnew 124 4 0.032258065 Leodis McKelvin 99 3 0.03030303 Eddie Drummond 140 4 0.028571429 Eric Metcalf 351 10 0.028490028 Deion Sanders+ 212 6 0.028301887 Dante Hall 216 6 0.027777778 Darren Sproles 311 7 0.022508039 Clarence Verdin 178 4 0.02247191 pre:Player ko Rt Yds yds/ko ret Abe Woodson 193 5538 28.69430052 Jacoby Jones 183 4940 26.99453552 Josh Cribbs 426 11113 26.08685446 Leodis McKelvin 95 2471 26.01052632 Andre Roberts 260 6751 25.96538462 Dwayne Harris 163 4204 25.79141104 Jamal Agnew 122 3112 25.50819672 Ron Smith 275 6922 25.17090909 Darren Sproles 332 8352 25.15662651 Devin Hester 295 7333 24.85762712 pre:Player ko Rt tds tds/ko ret Jacoby Jones 183 5 0.027322404 Abe Woodson 193 5 0.025906736 Steve Smith Sr. 98 2 0.020408163 Deion Sanders+ 155 3 0.019354839 Josh Cribbs 426 8 0.018779343 Jakeem Grant 110 2 0.018181818 Tamarick Vanover 226 4 0.017699115 Devin Hester 295 5 0.016949153 Jamal Agnew 122 2 0.016393443 Billy Johnson 123 2 0.016260163 pre:Player tot Rt Yds total yds/ret Josh Cribbs 648 13488 20.81481481 Abe Woodson 316 6494 20.55063291 Mel Gray 673 13003 19.32095097 Dante Hall 642 12397 19.30996885 Tyrone Hughes 445 8410 18.8988764 Reggie Swinton 340 6230 18.32352941 Allen Rossum 821 15003 18.27405603 Eddie Drummond 390 7091 18.18205128 Devin Hester 610 11028 18.07868852 Andre Roberts 479 8631 18.01878914 pre:Player tot Rt tds total tds/ret Devin Hester 610 19 0.031147541 Jakeem Grant 229 6 0.026200873 Deion Sanders+ 367 9 0.024523161 Jamal Agnew 246 6 0.024390244 Abe Woodson 316 7 0.022151899 Steve Smith Sr. 278 6 0.021582734 Leodis McKelvin 194 4 0.020618557 Billy Johnson 405 8 0.019753086 Jacoby Jones 459 9 0.019607843 Eric Metcalf 631 12 0.019017433 pre:Player total points Devin Hester 203 Jamal Agnew 189 Jakeem Grant 180 Leodis McKelvin 180 Josh Cribbs 176 Dante Hall 171 Abe Woodson 167 Tamarick Vanover 154 Deion Sanders+ 153 Billy Johnson 152 Mel Gray 149
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Dec 28, 2023 21:04
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When I include overall rankings and not just per-category, the gulf gets wider:pre:Player Overall Total Devin Hester 508.5 Josh Cribbs 460.5 Dante Hall 459.5 Brian Mitchell 447.5 Mel Gray 433 Darren Sproles 407 Allen Rossum 388 Jacoby Jones 381 Eric Metcalf 371.5 Tamarick Vanover 370
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Dec 28, 2023 21:09
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Master Stur posted:Are we really using counting stats against a guy in the same breadth as mentioning that every team avoided giving him the ball to rack up said counting stats? I think those teams were afraid of the TD success rate he had (14) and hall of very good should count extra for a special teamer imo His counting stats put him over the top when you properly contextualize them. He's head and shoulders above any contemporary as a whole, and his punt return game is untouchable. He only doesn't have more yards per return because he housed so many.
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Dec 28, 2023 21:11
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I also took the source material for the stats and showed that they support hester above everyone else. Just ranking by total yards doesn't contextualize the actual performance. You have to look at how many returns they had and what they did on every one. Doing so shows Hester is a clear head and shoulders above the rest of the pack. No one else is even close.
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Dec 28, 2023 21:14
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sweet thursday posted:The Hall of Him Bam Margeras ears perk up.
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Dec 28, 2023 21:15
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I expanded my stats to include everyone on the list whether they scored TDs or not. We now have 136 players in the pool. Points calculated the same way. Per Return Stats: pre:Player per return rank Devin Hester 494 Jamal Agnew 470.5 Jakeem Grant 462 Leodis McKelvin 453 Billy Johnson 451 Josh Cribbs 439.5 Dante Hall 436 Deion Sanders+ 420 Tamarick Vanover 418 Jacoby Jones 416 pre:Player counting stats rank Brian Mitchell 792 Devin Hester 773 Allen Rossum 736.5 Darren Sproles 729 Eric Metcalf 729 Dante Hall 728 Mel Gray 715 Ted Ginn Jr. 701.5 Josh Cribbs 700.5 Dave Meggett 689.5 pre:Player Overall Total Devin Hester 1267 Dante Hall 1164 Brian Mitchell 1151 Josh Cribbs 1140 Mel Gray 1115.5 Darren Sproles 1091 Jacoby Jones 1081.5 Tamarick Vanover 1057 Allen Rossum 1048.5 Eric Metcalf 1039
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Dec 28, 2023 22:06
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I think it’s really awesome you crunched these numbers! Do they include returned field goal attempts? e.g. when the Cardinals tried to kick a long field goal before halftime and the Jags put Agnew back there to catch it if it was short; he did then returned it for a TD? I think this was the Urban Meyer year? I don't know how they're counted in the stats, but pfr does have non-offensive TDs:
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Dec 29, 2023 00:30
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The thing that the Hester stats I posted don't really show is that teams generally would not kick to him. Teams would often risk a punt going way short out of bounds rather than give Hester a chance to run it back. I wish I had numbers for all of the times he was lined up deep and the punt was kicked out of bounds. The incredible number of times that coaches deliberately sacrificed 20+ yards of field position just to avoid Devin Hester is a testament to just how much he affected the game. Imagine if the bears ever had competent offense to take advantage of his unique skillset.
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Dec 29, 2023 01:46
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