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(Thread IKs: muscles like this!)
 
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Mulva
Sep 13, 2011
It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.

muscles like this! posted:

He's also really good on the CW show "I Zombie" where he plays the seemingly straight laced police detective character who is actually a huge weirdo.

"Clive....what's George R.R. Martin up to right now?"

"Not writing."

is still an all time delivery.

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Mulva
Sep 13, 2011
It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.

thrawn527 posted:

I played Goldeneye on the Switch recently, and that game is not as good as everyone (including me) remembers.

Context is King, for a game on the N64 made nearly 30 years ago? Yes, it 100% is that good....but that doesn't change it's not 30 years ago and we don't have to use an N64.

Mulva
Sep 13, 2011
It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.
And 35 years ago poo poo looked like Wolfenstein, 5 years is a wild amount of time in video game development. You add about 5 years of development to Dark Souls and you get loving Elden Ring. I personally wouldn't want to go back and gently caress with Goldeneye, but it doesn't change that it was legitimately great when it came out.

Mulva
Sep 13, 2011
It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.

feedmyleg posted:

I would be 1000% for another Bebop dropping Ed entirely. I just want it to feel like The Long Goodbye in space

Ed and Ein are the cat.

Mulva
Sep 13, 2011
It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.

Truspeaker posted:

Does Lance not get the first one??

An award is a standard of excellence to aspire to. Winning one is an acknowledgement you've achieved that standard. Having one named after you is an acknowledgement you are that standard.

Mulva
Sep 13, 2011
It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.
It's very much not the sort of story that believes in God, or people for that matter. It is also a moron's understanding of most science, and falls apart as a story really quickly.

This still makes it better than 99% of the trash that gets published in sci-fi, so have fun if it's your bag.

Mulva
Sep 13, 2011
It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.
Also fundamentally the science on the show is dogshit because it's not really about science, it's about the cultural revolution. The sci-fi nonsense is just there to put all of existence in a situation to mirror the revolution, where basically everyone is either a motherfucker or dead, and the motherfuckers just die later.

Mulva
Sep 13, 2011
It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.
Haven is more straight, Eureka is more silly.

Mulva
Sep 13, 2011
It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.
The fundamental problem with the show's interpretation of things is that it's not actually a real conflict by the stakes of their reality, it exists only to make a point. In a world with Janet, you would only feel what you want to feel. You would only remember what you want to remember. You would never, ever have any problems, because the second you perceive something to be a problem you would change yourself or the world around you for it to not be a problem. They aren't human, they don't operate on human terms. The show requires that they do though so it can have it's big moment on how to live your life and let go.

It was always a philosophy based show, the afterlife kick is just the means it used to get people to buy in. After all, everyone hates moral philosophers.

Mulva
Sep 13, 2011
It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.
Why the hell not, you are dead. You don't have biology, and psychology in human terms is based on absolutes that heaven doesn't work on. You could just craft one perfect moment and live in it forever, it's functionally the same thing as the solution they came up with. Done is done, why is the done where you don't exist better than the done where you are eternally happy? Both are artificial constructs. Both have no intrinsic meaning. One exists to make a point about living, but the dead are definitionally not living. Why should they hold themselves to standards on how to live life that no longer apply?

Mulva
Sep 13, 2011
It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.

Arist posted:

I don't know how to explain to you that that's hosed up. Altering the way your brain reacts to stimuli, the way you as a person behave and think, is the death of the self.

They don't have brains, and are already dead. What are you being precious about?

Mulva
Sep 13, 2011
It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.
I don't have a complaint, it's a great show no notes. People were talking about it, and also the ending. And it is a kind of stupid ending because they have to sort of force in a conflict that does not exist to stay true to their moral philosophy roots. But it was always that sort of show, and they stuck the emotional core pretty well so I don't care. But it's absolutely an issue I've seen a bunch of people slam into.

Mulva
Sep 13, 2011
It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.

Khanstant posted:

Nobody knows anything about being anything else and it's not all that interesting to think about how things might be if you weren't dead and also were not capable of having thoughts, thoughts like " I wonder what it would be like to be something else and why didn't this TV show explore this thing nobody knows about."

Are you having a stroke?

Mulva
Sep 13, 2011
It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.

Khanstant posted:

Worse, responding to someone who already knows their idea doesn't make sense and why it wasn't the show.

That showed me.

What I don't know, because you are babbling some real loving nonsense, but I'm sure it showed me.

Mulva
Sep 13, 2011
It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.

Khanstant posted:

It offers a solution in the form of a door that lets people go from eternal life to... Something, anything else. And they also show it as well as anybody possibly can, by not showing it. You're free to imagine whatever, but it's pointless, since anything you imagine will be in the framework of being a living human, thus, not really what it could be beyond that door.

I mean we were kind of making a point not to just post that for the people who are watching it for the first time, way to read the room.

And no, it's very clear on what is happening. You stop being. The end. There is no "something else". Her energy returns to the universe, and she's done. That's the entire point. The cure to the ennui of those in heaven is "You can stop whenever you want", rather than leaving them trapped there forever. You die, you get a victory lap, you clock out. It's in no way subtle about what is happening. It's the entire point of Chidi sharing with her that Buddhist expression, to show her another way of seeing the end of self.

And it's not

quote:

Sounds like you're criticizing them for exploring the relatable human stuff instead of the abstract inhuman stuff they can't even explore.

Nah, I just think think they ran out of ideas in the back half and kind of had to find a way to phone in an ending setup. But if you liked the setup good for you.

Mulva
Sep 13, 2011
It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.

Arist posted:

It's one thing to be smug, it's another thing to be smug and this incredibly wrong.

e: this feels like a refusal to admit you just have a philosophical disagreement with the show and trying to rationalize it away

And that seems like a cheap way to not actually put your thoughts together and make a point, and just say "Yeah, well....you're wrong!" liking a loving chimp before waddling off like you did something here.

Like you do know that the entire point of the series up until that point is about how we better ourselves and live together, based strongly on moral contractualism ideas. Morality is not some objective truth on high, morality is how we deal with each other. Entire, entire series up to the very end is dealing with that. With the obvious end goal "Ok, we've found a way to actually change ourselves and others and finally be good people and go to heaven", but of course the end goal is kind of against the previous setup. If morality is how we treat each other, you kind of undercut that by tying it to achieving some objective good. As the show was telling you, if you are only doing it for a reward it's not a truly good act. And thematically, we can't end on the characters doing a good thing and going to the Good Place. The point isn't the payoff, it's doing the right thing..

Great, so plot twist. Entirely with them, have to do something now that literally every possible issue is put aside and finally things can proceed as expected. It's just that there, at the end? I think it's a weak setup. Boredom and lack of fulfillment? Really? That's the final boss of dead people? That's what you came up with? You could have just gone with reincarnation or a more literal interpretation of their energy returning to the universe as a necessity for continuation. The ultimate answer to the question of what we owe to each other. They get to heaven and it's empty because everyone that came before already had to go. Still not great, but at least there's nothing they can do about it. When the solution to your problem is "Have you tried not being bored?" and a magic robot lady makes you not bored, it's hard to get on the team for spiritual annihilation. It's too easy a solve with the tools they've shown up to that point. Takes me out of it for a minute.

And that is it. That's my one problem with the finale run, which I quickly got over because it nailed the character moments. But that doesn't magically eliminate the problem I had with it. It was a show never particularly concerned with that side of things. After all we had a ton of returning characters from hell, and dealt with what was going on there multiple times. Heaven was just an abstract goal we spend like nine seconds with before everyone there fucks off and we see what a mess it is. The show was always having fun with the petty office poo poo going on in hell, it had one liberal failures joke with heaven it used, then time to blow it up. The writers quite literally could not conceive of how heaven could work in a comedy, so they just wrote the easiest possible conclusion: It doesn't, move on. Which is fine when it's doing what it wants to do, talk about moral philosophy, but at the very end we actually *do* have to talk about the thing they don't care about.

And I just don't think they did a good job. That's all. That's it. 4 years, one note. That's a pretty good run.

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Mulva
Sep 13, 2011
It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.

Truspeaker posted:

It's a lot of words, but it's all to support the argument that "the writers didn't really think about it and were lazy"

About that one aspect of a thing they never cared about so they could get back to the thing they did on a Michael Schur show? It's not exactly flat earth theory I'm spitting here.

quote:

which a) is a stupid thing to argue because who knows or cares what the writers were thinking

People discussing the shows they wrote? Did you think this one through before you wrote it, or were you just kind of free-styling?

quote:

but you aren't gonna convince anyone who it did work for that it didn't

Never even tried to. Explaining myself, and to the slightest degree also "Hey, here's why some other people had an issue with that moment". Not "You are wrong, I am right.". And again, I liked the ending a lot. One loving aspect kind of tilts it slightly, I feel like there might have been a better way to get to this place. Literally the tiniest objection.

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