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Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
If we wanted to play a good game, we wouldn't be playing Warhammer.

https://youtu.be/RbhcRKsRwFM?t=71

If this doesn't work out, ask me about Conquest TLAOK!

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Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

MonsterEnvy posted:

Great Book of Grudges gives all Base Sizes it seems

putting this in the form of a video is extremely obnoxious

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

MonsterEnvy posted:

I just pause the video and jump to different sections. I don't need to listen to him, I can just look at the images.

i mean it's not your fault

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
Also basically all of the old VC units still exist in AOS, except for the unique characters.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

MonsterEnvy posted:

Who are currently all dead in the current time period.

i know people pointed out that they are vampires and lol, but:

it would be very funny to have elector count charlestone of wissenland as an empire unique character

Padical posted:

I really like the fomoroid crusher for some reason but I am struggling to find a good analog in TOS. Any ideas?

https://www.warhammer.com/en-CA/shop/fomoroid-crusher-2022

can't thing of anything similar to that giant humanoid who throws giant rocks

also cygors in beastmen

Al-Saqr posted:

Also question for all you guys, whats the fundamental difference between a rank-and-file system like the old world and Age of Sigmar? Like how different is the flow? It seems like either ways you have to position yourself to get into melee range the best way. Im curious.

When i get the money/time ill probably get an AoS box next edition for variety but ive always wondered what the old fantasy games were like.

much more interesting game of maneuver and positioning, and more of a pain in the rear end to assemble, store, transport, assemble, and play.

Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Jan 9, 2024

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

Padical posted:

That was my first thought, but aren't cygors way too big? Does height even matter in this game as long as I have them on the right base?

nah as long as you're on more or less the right base, you're good

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

Lovely Joe Stalin posted:

I've spent the afternoon looking at all the cool gobbo stuff that's come out for AoS in the years that I wasn't paying attention. Seems like it is super easy to get hero characters now, and my god the Wolf Riders got a nice re-do. As did everything to do with squigs. I was less enchanted by some of the newer orcs though. They look quite LoTR, and not at all O&G.

It's also a bit of a bummer that you can't get an arachnarok and a giant in the same 2,000 point army. But to be fair, that is kind of wanting the moon on a stick.

Aleguzzler gargants are regular giants, and an option in Gloomspite Gitz, the same army as the arachnarok. The official model is the same one as the mancrusher model. They can even still stuff enemies in their pants, and fall over when they die.

Additionally, Sons of Behemat, the all-giant army, has a set of four named mega-gargants (the big giant model), such that every army has a legal mega-gargant ally.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

MonsterEnvy posted:

Think they are talking about taking them together in an old world list.

oooh, thought LJS was still talking about AOS there. although they do, in fact, get several moons on sticks

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

Verisimilidude posted:

Same! And I can only hope HH also receives better support in the coming days. My FLGS bought in hard on that game and it hasn't seen a meaningful release since.

When did they buy in? Since November, HH had three new plastic unit boxes, a Christmas value box, and a new rule book, on top of various resin FW stuff that doesn't do your FLGS any good.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

hooman posted:

How can a young man resist "Horse ride me closer so I can shoot them in the face with my gun."

historically pistoliers were shock cavalry! they were a response to the dominance of armored lancers in full plate, which were ruinously expensive but basically unstoppable

imagine a bunch of men with lancers or sabers on horseback, charging amidst a hail of gunfire

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

Yeast posted:

I will stop being excited, apologies.

that's the opposite of the takeaway. the point is that GW could do more of this. that's good news

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

Fuligin posted:

Wtf happened to warmachine and hordes anyway

third edition had fairly severe balance issues and a model line that grew so large as to be unmanageable. PP tried to solve this with mk4, an edition reset that dumped many legacy armies into a legends-like purgatory, and a shift to printed resin minis. it didn't work out.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

Eggplant Squire posted:

The rumor is also they got their molds stolen by the factory that produced the plastic minis which is one of the reasons for the faction shift since those lines started being incredibly hard to find even before mk4.

they always had huge stocking issues, though. their manufacturing process was never well-managed, and stores/distributors were always stuck with a bunch of stuff that was completely useless unless the player had something that literally could not be ordered anywhere. mk4 came along and proposed to make that problem worse, while shipping $100 boxes that consistently ended up returned for QC problems. and 2022-2023 was a really sensitive time for whether gaming groups reformed or not after covid. stores had a lot of good reasons to just lose privateer's number and stop carrying warmachine at all.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

Eggplant Squire posted:

Strigoi lords honestly seem like a value with hatred, poison attacks, and 5 attacks base. If you want an infantry Vamp Lord that seems like the statlines to use hands down, just slap on a talisman of protection for the 5+ ward and give it an extra wound. It will be a blender. Reminds me of 6th edition where the Strigoi were the best.

Strigoi can't be wizard level 3, lose the Illusion lore (which is nice but it's not like Dark and Necro are slouches!), and have a somewhat lower cap on magic tchotchkes. It seems like the optimal choice will come down to how important it is to always be wizard-maxing.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

Eggplant Squire posted:

I think I'm going to spam cheap necromancers for the invocation and leave the casting to the Necro Lord so don't really need caster Vamps; I think the Strigoi is going to be my stand in profile for my Vampire lords.

I think if you take a foot vamp lord, you always want it to be at least a level 1 wizard so it can be your general, even if you have a level 4 necro too. I can see the argument for a necro general if your vamp lord is going to be risking a cannonball to the face by screwing around with riding a monster. Otherwise, there are no good reasons to have your necro be the general if you have a vamp lord, and a number of good reasons not to.

As for dual-coded models, AOS has some outstanding bestial foot vampires. Radukar, Ivya Volga, the rat guy, and even Lady Annika (on a long cav base I guess?) read as either traditional vampires or monstrous bloodhungry fiends.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

Eggplant Squire posted:

That's what I figured. I just don't see a 5+ save doing much since any attack that matters has AP 1 or 2. Points seem better spent on the 5+ ward talisman.

an army with a vamp lord and a master necro has two heroes you want to protect

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

Bad Decision Dino posted:

True, but they are weirdly tall compared to skeletons.

feature and not a bug imo

(they're largely meant to tower over the goofy AOS SBGL chaff infantry)

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
also the toilet dice

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

moths posted:

E: Fear is written, "If a unit is engaged with an enemy unit that both causes Fear and has a higher Unit Strength ..." (emphasis mine.) Does that mean multiple fear-causing units can't add up?

So 10 elves guys getting charged by 10 ghouls and then 10 more in the same turn don't make a check?

On 168, it says you only check once per turn.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

Crazy Ferret posted:

My biggest issue with the Old World is how constrained it feels to me. Everything is mapped out and all the subfactions have great lore, but never a ton of space to make your own. The lore never seemed to really move in any direction since the world felt like a bunch of apocalypses all stacked on top each other.

there were designated loving-around areas like the border princes and the other side of the big mountain range to the east, but i get this. WHFB always had a millenarian vibe, where everything is building up to the grand battle to decide the fate of the world (which, presumably, is the match you are playing). the timeline rarely advanced, but GW constantly added new things that happened last week.

who knows what they'll do with TOW.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

lilljonas posted:

Overall this was a thing that came along later on, same with 40K. Up to, say, 4th and 5th editions of WHFB, there was IMHO much less focus on the "main plotline characters" of GW, or the main plot at all, and more room for players to carve out their own piece of the fantasy.

Some of this depended on the army books you had, I suppose. Even the earliest undead books emphasized that Nagash and the von Carlsteins are coming back and there'll be hell to pay. Archaon was 5th edition. The High/Dark Elf struggle was basically fully formed in 5th. Those gave it a millenarian vibe to me, even before Storm of Chaos, Mordheim, Belakor, Grimgor, etc. Those are some of the retconned-to-be-last-week things I was talking about.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
apparently GW had a bunch of shipments en route destroyed by water damage, which would explain irregular shortages

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

ro5s posted:

It feels even more static than eternal 999.M41 did to be pretending all these events are taking place and they have zero effect, not even culling some excessive named characters.

even the ones that died are still kicking around. captain tycho died in the same story that introduced goth captain tycho. which was in 2001.

LashLightning posted:

I don't know how millenarian Grimgor was, or Snarsnik - who I think was still around at the time. Certainly less so than Ghazghkull in 40k. Grimgor's problems were more the first time Storm of Chaos came around when GW wrote him as suddenly not wanting to fight when he met Archaon.

Grimgor was just Ghazghkull, the orc chosen one who's here lead the final waagh, according to his witch doctor Merlin. (That is Wurrzag's whole deal btw.) And Archaon did just appear to be Fantasy Abaddon, although he did benefit from an outstanding sculpt that I hope does come back. (It got demoted to Chaos Lord on Nightmare when Archaon went all supermonstery.) Archaon's original book was really forgettable, a collection of named characters that got bumped from the overstuffed 5e Chaos book, but he got his it's-time-to-end-the-world sidekick in Belakor sometime around 6e.

Nagash was always Sauron and was always working to come back, as far back as 4e. But part of this story was in the O&G book, which establishes that the Crown of Sorcery is just Nagash's One Ring. He ended up downplayed in 5-6, pushing him way back in the storyline to focus on the (IMO extremely boring and bad) deep backstory.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

ro5s posted:

That's the bit I find baffling - 40K's allergic to historic characters to the point I think Tycho's the only dead one, even Eldrad got better and came back to life.

a lot of the 40K characters were historical and they just forgot or didn't look at the dates, lol. once the warp became time travel they just stopped worrying about who was historical or not (except for tycho, who is very dead.)

there have been a lot of named characters, with rules and everything, that fell by the wayside over the years. some of them were just names for generic figures (what, you don't remember seraphicus?), some of them were ridiculous (fear the might of arbaal, the champion of chaos who rides a flesh hound!), some were boring (gorthor rides a chariot and has inordinately large horns, even for a beastman). they can't all be winners.

as for the sunk cost, most of them were intentionally designed to be basically interchangeable with a generic figure from the same army. the exceptions were few and far between until around about end times, and even then i don't think 40K had any until giant Ghaz.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
empire and orcs & goblins can bring as many level 4 wizards as they can afford. wood elves can take both a treemen ancient and a spell weaver per 1000 points, which means they can spend all of their character points on three level 4 wizards and one level 3 wizard per 2K.

hail satan

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
i saw a picture of galrauch and it reminded me how everyone was mad about how bad that model sucked when it came out

they were right

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
huh. dispelling remains-in-play spells on subsequent turns requires the dispeller to measure range to the caster, not the effect.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
in fairness, GW completely mismanaging everything is in keeping with the retro WHFB and epic experience

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
GW still sells karl franz and steam tanks and flagellants and the goofy wizard wagon

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

MonsterEnvy posted:

Here is hoping the next Old World wave is announced tomorrow.

please enjoy your new horus heresy resin kit

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
The Chosen look like individual hero poses, which is thematic and works fine in AOS, but I can't imagine it looks very good in close order.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
literally tossing them under the bus

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
a bunch of spearmen just pushing the sergeant into traffic

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

hooman posted:

Does that mean if the impact hits kill the champion then the lord doesn't get to attack, but the horses do?

The impact hits kill the champion and then both the lord and the horses get to mutilate the corpse intimidatingly.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

hooman posted:

If either participant in a challenge is mounted, their mount (including a crew of a chariot) must direct its attacks against the other participant. If the rival participant is slain before a mount's attacks are made (because the mount has lower initiative, for example) the mount's attacks may be made against the rival as normal for the purposes of Overkill

Doesn't say anything about the character.

True, but the basic rules still apply:

How many attacks? posted:

When a model fights in combat, it makes a number of ‘attacks’. How many is determined by its Attacks characteristic and its proximity to the enemy:

  • If a model is in base contact with an enemy model, it makes a number of attacks equal to its Attacks characteristic.
  • If a model is able to fight but is not in base contact with an enemy model, it can make only one attack, regardless of its Attacks characteristic.

And we have rules for what happens when you keep beating on a dead guy.

Overkill posted:

If a character fighting in a challenge kills their opponent and causes more unsaved wounds than their opponent has Wounds remaining, then for each excess wound you may claim a bonus of +1 combat result point, up to a maximum of +5.

Just because the mounts can attack doesn't mean the character can't. And we have a rule (the basic attack rules) saying yes, your character can attack.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
I guess they're spacing out the MTO, since the trolls and some other old MTO metal monsters haven't shown up yet.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
the big doom diver, the one with the wooden launching ramp, that was in this wave.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
the one they're selling was always a bolt throwa anyway. the name change predates that particular model.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

ijyt posted:

yeah with these prices...

yeah. even with inflation that's a 1/3 price increase, for a significantly worse model in finecast.

it's even worse outside of the UK because GW ratchets the price up when the GBP is up for a year but not to match its overall decline over the last 15ish years.

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Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

MonsterEnvy posted:

It’s not finecast.

???

the GW store page for the orc on wyvern posted:

This kit contains 13 resin components, 2 plastic components, and 1x Citadel 50x100mm Rectangular Base. This miniature is supplied unpainted and requires assembly – we recommend using Citadel Colour paints.

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