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Also, I got to watch ep 5 with some n00b friends tonight and goddamn for all of my (relatively small) issues with this adaptation, it still slaps.
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Mar 26, 2024 03:40
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discoukulele posted:E S* O You haven’t read 3 Body Problem until you’ve read it in the original English 
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Mar 26, 2024 03:48
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Steve Yun posted:You haven’t read 3 Body Problem until you’ve read it in the original English "Do not wait for the translation!"
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Mar 26, 2024 03:58
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Boris Galerkin posted:Yeah anyone who's asking for Saul's credentials while not also asking for Liam Cunningham's character's credentials should look inward and ask themselves why. Oh I was criticizing Cunningham's character too. I feel like they wrote him in specifically to have one incorrigible British Geezer who gets to say slurs so they could contain the outrage to just him. He's way more over-the-top than any other character, but at least it's entertaining. bawfuls posted:yes, more specifically because Ye Wenjie spoke to him in the cemetary that day, the Trisolarans are fearful of him. Because the Trisolarans fear him, the UN chose him to be a Wallfacer OK fine, but that's not conveyed to the audience at all, and the assassination attempt only happens after he's announced (they should have done it before if they wanted to show that the aliens have it in for him). Wallfacer ceremony rationalizing it as "working with the brightest minds" specifically is what my bf was reacting to, he has to trudge through bullshit recommendation letters like that. Saul calls himself a low-level researcher. He was probably getting $20/hr to pipette some stuff and has fuckall to show for it. Like IRL there would have been audible groans unless everyone in that whole room was aware of the secret reasoning.
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Mar 26, 2024 04:15
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Should I watch the Chinese series from 2023?
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Mar 26, 2024 04:15
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Zero VGS posted:Oh I was criticizing Cunningham's character too. I feel like they wrote him in specifically to have one incorrigible British Geezer who gets to say slurs so they could contain the outrage to just him. He's way more over-the-top than any other character, but at least it's entertaining.
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Mar 26, 2024 04:20
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Steve Yun posted:You haven’t read 3 Body Problem until you’ve read it in the original English I have the official ETO badge on my bag so allegedly I'm an official comrade 
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Mar 26, 2024 04:21
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Was the "aliens can't grasp metaphor" thing from the book? Because that seems like a proper weakness. Like sure we have our wallfacer program and it's fine but also coincidentally we're sponsoring a multi trillion dollar effort to make a plan to deal with 30 year cicadas that I'm sure the aliens will find quite boring.
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Mar 26, 2024 04:32
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bawfuls posted:the car crash happens before he's announced, the gun attempt is after. I agree it's not well communicated in the show Ah yeah, I guess all the post-episode-5 are kinda a smear to me at this point lol That kinda proves the point about the character being useless, hey you're a low-level research grunt and a stoner, but someone actually smart/accomplished said something to you that you might eventually figure out, and that's your sole merit now mcmagic posted:Should I watch the Chinese series from 2023? Absolutely don't do that, my bf made me watch that with him before this came out and we were like holy poo poo this drags on. It wasn't our imagination because this show does in one episode what that took 10 to do. Major snooze-fest and we gave up somewhere in the first season. I'd sooner do that Minecraft one.
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Mar 26, 2024 04:36
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Yeah, like, basically (show spoilers, minor book spoilers?) The show makes the San-Ti seem more like a hivemind, but basically there's no difference between speech and thought to them (they broadcast their literal thoughts to everyone around them), so they don't understand concepts of lying, or metaphor, or symbolic speech. So things like jokes and stories are one of our greatest strenghts.
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Mar 26, 2024 04:36
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Zero VGS posted:
It’s not supposed to be It’s a mystery that will get dealt with later
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Mar 26, 2024 04:36
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Zero VGS posted:
Someday decades from now there will be a remake that’s 13-20 episodes per season and it will feel just right
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Mar 26, 2024 04:38
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:Was the "aliens can't grasp metaphor" thing from the book? Because that seems like a proper weakness. Like sure we have our wallfacer program and it's fine but also coincidentally we're sponsoring a multi trillion dollar effort to make a plan to deal with 30 year cicadas that I'm sure the aliens will find quite boring. Nope. In the book, Mike Evans is talking to them about language and they bring up the subject of synonyms. They tell him that they first thought "think" and "say" were synonyms but have realised from context they're not. He asks them some questions about how they communicate and as he starts to realise what's going on he tells them the story of Red Riding Hood as an experiment to test his hypothesis. So that's basically it, think and say are the same thing to them. Nothing about not understanding metaphors. They can't lie to each other because they would also communicate the fact that they were lying at the same time as the lie itself. The important realisation is the same, that they can no longer trust anything humans have told them, but the extra cruft is all D&D Tarnop fucked around with this message at 04:46 on Mar 26, 2024 |
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Mar 26, 2024 04:43
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Steve Yun posted:Someday decades from now there will be a remake that’s 13-20 episodes per season and it will feel just right I'm super curious about this new Anniversary edit of the Tencent version. It's like 26 episodes, I think? And apparently they trimmed a lot of the additional subplots that just don't really work. I'm hoping it'll flow better. I still love the Tencent version, and it'll always have a special place in my heart, though; it was my first full experience with the story (I'd started the first book but just kinda fallen off like I tend to do with books), and I binged it while I was sick with COVID. So watching it while I was in-and-out of fever dreams was definitely an experience. But also, what an amazing time to be a fan since we have the literal-to-a-fault Chinese series and the fun, popcorn Hollywood-ish version going on at the same time.
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Mar 26, 2024 04:44
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discoukulele posted:Yeah, like, basically (show spoilers, minor book spoilers?) How long have the Sophons been active? It's weird that they've had the time to "read Wikipedia" as Wade says, but it's that guy's storytime that happens to make them throw a poo poo fit?
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Mar 26, 2024 04:44
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Zero VGS posted:How long have the Sophons been active? It's weird that they've had the time to "read Wikipedia" as Wade says, but it's that guy's storytime that happens to make them throw a poo poo fit? They start building them almost immediately after receiving the reply from Ye Wenjie. So broadcast date + 4 years + I think around 12 years construction time + 4 years for them to travel to Earth
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Mar 26, 2024 04:56
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discoukulele posted:Yeah, like, basically (show spoilers, minor book spoilers?) I guess? I mean all that stuff where they ask if they can speak to the big bad wolf right now and they think it's a record of actual events is 100% a creation of the show. Mike Evans says he's going to tell them a story to help him understand why they don't get the concept of lying and they don't say "what's a story". They just don't understand why the wolf speaks to the person he's going to eat, because for them doing that would also communicate that he's the wolf and not grandma. In the sophon creation chapter their chief scientist says "The sphere is only the projection of the sophon's body into 3d space. It is in fact a giant in 4 space and our world is like a thin 3d sheet of paper. The giant stands on this sheet of paper and we can see only the trace where it's feet touch the paper". That sounds like metaphor to me Tarnop fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Mar 26, 2024 |
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Mar 26, 2024 05:06
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Quinn's Ideas just dropped a 2-hour deep dive into the show. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P_eyH7EFBw
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Mar 26, 2024 05:25
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Tarnop posted:I guess? I mean all that stuff where they ask if they can speak to the big bad wolf right now and they think it's a record of actual events is 100% a creation of the show. Mike Evans says he's going to tell them a story to help him understand why they don't get the concept of lying and they don't say "what's a story". They just don't understand why the wolf speaks to the person he's going to eat, because for them doing that would also communicate that he's the wolf and not grandma. Oh sure that makes sense. There's just a lot of double-speak and not-explicitly-saying-what-i-mean stuff coming that I oversimplified it.
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Mar 26, 2024 05:39
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discoukulele posted:Oh sure that makes sense. There's just a lot of double-speak and not-explicitly-saying-what-i-mean stuff coming that I oversimplified it. Yeah (book 3 spoilers) they're obviously working very hard to lay the groundwork for the fairy tale communications in book 3 and I wonder if they feel like they can't sell it without making the Trisolarans seem like they don't understand stories at all. I just feel like this could be yet another trap they're unwittingly setting for themselves further down the line
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Mar 26, 2024 05:49
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Taking bets now Will we ever see Listener or Singer
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Mar 26, 2024 06:42
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Steve Yun posted:Taking bets now I will say no to us seeing any aliens. For Trisolaris we'll only ever see Sophon and for the Singer chapter I suspect we'll see the ship at most. Too much risk of them looking like poo poo when the story doesn't really need them to be seen
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Mar 26, 2024 06:49
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Tarnop posted:Nope. In the book, Mike Evans is talking to them about language and they bring up the subject of synonyms. They tell him that they first thought "think" and "say" were synonyms but have realised from context they're not. He asks them some questions about how they communicate and as he starts to realise what's going on he tells them the story of Red Riding Hood as an experiment to test his hypothesis. So that's basically it, think and say are the same thing to them. Nothing about not understanding metaphors. They can't lie to each other because they would also communicate the fact that they were lying at the same time as the lie itself. The important realisation is the same, that they can no longer trust anything humans have told them, but the extra cruft is all D&D This all sounds way better than him telling them fairy tales for no apparent reason. It also encapsulates the broader critique that can be made of the Netflix version, that it fetishizes science but doesn't actually value the scientific process. No one in the Netflix version is even especially curious except for Jack, who's also very counterintuitively coded as the token dumb guy of the Oxford group.
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Mar 26, 2024 06:54
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Some Guy TT posted:This all sounds way better than him telling them fairy tales for no apparent reason. It also encapsulates the broader critique that can be made of the Netflix version, that it fetishizes science but doesn't actually value the scientific process. No one in the Netflix version is even especially curious except for Jack, who's also very counterintuitively coded as the token dumb guy of the Oxford group. Yep. I think you should give the books a try, you'll probably like them
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Mar 26, 2024 07:10
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Watching Quinn's deep dive, and he's doing a lot of "Rrrr, guys! If you read the books..." But he is also pointing out some good bits that the show lifts right from the books, or does in its own way, such as the placement of books on a shelf -- the specific books (game theory and the Fermi paradox) are winks to bigger themes. Which is cool, but, considering how much D&D seem to misinterpret or handwave or change major story and character beats (such as Auggie's lack of scientific investigation into her countdown visions that another poster mentioned), it becomes really hard to trust that the writers know what they are doing. Nice Tuckpointing! fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Mar 26, 2024 |
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Mar 26, 2024 07:21
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Just a quick heads up for people since you mentioned the Fermi Paradox: the Wikipedia page for it contains a direct reference to the second book and I would consider it a spoiler, so if anyone is going to Google it, be warned!
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Mar 26, 2024 07:30
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Oof. There is a conversation about it in the second(?) episode, which does a good enough job with the very basics of it.
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Mar 26, 2024 07:39
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Yep, I just wanted to warn people from personal experience because I read that page between the first and second books and while it's not a huge spoiler I would rather not have read it. The broad overview at the start of the wiki page is safe territory, just don't go digging too deep
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Mar 26, 2024 07:43
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Tarnop posted:Just a quick heads up for people since you mentioned the Fermi Paradox: the Wikipedia page for it contains a direct reference to the second book and I would consider it a spoiler, so if anyone is going to Google it, be warned! For anyone reading this thread who does know what the Fermi paradox is, you kinda spoilered them. I'm guessing you're referring to the part of the paradox that says other aliens are out there but are smart enough to shut the gently caress up so they don't get invaded.
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Mar 26, 2024 10:34
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Are the (episode six) murder atoms too small to pick up the nanofillament cabling, or should everyone be freaking out about there being two super tiny death computers with potential access to invisibly fine cheesewire?
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Mar 26, 2024 10:36
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Hey! If I'm a fan of the books+dramatisations of 3bd, What is some good hard sci fi to read? Sans Greg Egan, Culture series (apologies if its not *actually* really hard sci fi), blindsight. 
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Mar 26, 2024 10:42
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I quite enjoyed Aurora by Kim Stanley Robinson recently, it's hard enough sci-fi in most respects. Otherwise I'm at a bit of a loss. Inevitably people would say Expanse series but I think that isn't really that hard and gets less hard as the series goes on, plus I found the books pretty irritating.
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Mar 26, 2024 10:50
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Boris Galerkin posted:For anyone reading this thread who does know what the Fermi paradox is, you kinda spoilered them. Well, sorry. Though there is an entire scene about it in Ep. 2. But also, when I think Fermi paradox, I tend to think 1: Distances are too far and signals lose strength; 2: Time is too long and two civilizations in communication distance at the same time is extremely low odds; 3: We live in a pretty empty part of the galaxy; 4: We might be alone/the first; 5: Civilizations almost always Great Filter themselves anyway. The idea in the book never occurred to me and I still find it a bit silly, but fun to read in a book. Nice Tuckpointing! fucked around with this message at 11:11 on Mar 26, 2024 |
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Mar 26, 2024 10:57
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i thought they just made saul a wallfacer because the aliens tried to kill him so obviously he has value the wallfacer thing is funny though, there's still 400 years to go, what exactly are wallfacers going to do now that will pay off in 400 years if they can't tell anyone about it. Why only 3 wallfacers? Why not have an entire militia of wallfacers. Giving aliens three people to target for assassination makes the work seem a bit easier but whatever i had a theory about how the numbers worked based on the show: that was that yes, they could screw with your vision, but the actual killing of the person part was done by the ETO assassins that aren't picked up on cams etc. Some posts in the thread made me question this but I'm sure it's something along those lines and not that they can just make you off yourself. Regardless, if they can display those numbers in your eyeballs, surely they could just start destroying civilization immediately just with that tech. Make it impossible for anyone to see clearly. Seems like a prudent plan if they want to come to a habitable planet in 400 years lmao swamp thong fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Mar 26, 2024 |
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Mar 26, 2024 12:25
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Yeah and they can't pass down generational knowledge so what's the loving point? That was my thought when they were introduced.
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Mar 26, 2024 12:27
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PostNouveau posted:No, I'm trying to think of something dumber in the books and I cannot. It is supremely stupid in the books as well. What's wrong with it? I mean, you have the sophons, who are capable of spying on the entire world, and all of your plans are immediately revealed and can then be countered. The only plans or strategies that can stay hidden are the ones that are never written down or spoken aloud. So you assign some people who could have good ideas and give them the power to implement whatever the gently caress they can think of without having to explain or justify anything. And, bigger spoiler: It actually works, so...
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Mar 26, 2024 12:36
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Boris Galerkin posted:Yeah and they can't pass down generational knowledge so what's the loving point? That was my thought when they were introduced. Because they can basically time travel, just like Wade plans to. There's also something to be said of the fact that the plans they're intended to create are so massive in scale and consume so many resources that you cannot have more than a small number of them. The Wallfacers are the human reverse of the Sophons.
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Mar 26, 2024 13:43
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uXs posted:What's wrong with it? Mainly, it's like a 10-year-old wrote it. I don't know poo poo about physics so you can tell me all kinds of nonsense about getting up to 1% light speed or whatever, but if you say "And then a week later the whole world universally agreed 3 people can do anything they want with unlimited resources," well, I know that's dumb. It's authorial fiat on the level of, like, a kid drawing a tank that has lasers and can fly. PostNouveau fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Mar 26, 2024 |
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Mar 26, 2024 14:21
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That's why it owns.
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Mar 26, 2024 14:30
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Book Spoiler question: Don't the SanTi lie? I can't remember but don't they tell the humans that the teardrop isn't going to gank all their ships and then it does? Also I wonder if they will change the location of Australia to the UK too
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Mar 26, 2024 15:00
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