USCE 2024: DEA Rescheduling Weed, An 'Istoric Shift

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USCE 2024: DEA Rescheduling Weed, An 'Istoric Shift

Civilized Fishbot: Apr 3, 2011

Kchama posted:

I/P is mostly irrelevant to the election. I believe recent polling says like 7% of people rank 'foreign policy' stuff as important at all.

And my guess is that most of the 7% would say that their chief concern is that US isn't doing enough to defend Judeo-Christian civilization from the Islamic-Atheist axis.

# ? Apr 18, 2024 14:49

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# ? May 2, 2024 08:02

OAquinas: Jan 27, 2008; Biden has sat immobile on the Iron Throne of America. He is the Master of Malarkey by the will of the gods, and master of a million votes by the might of his inexhaustible calamari.

zoux posted:

https://twitter.com/MattKleinOnline/status/1780616545586106487

Whoever wins in WV may be the most LGBT hostile governor in the country.

Well, that will tank WV's tourism draw while turning it into a total shithole.

# ? Apr 18, 2024 14:51

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

OAquinas posted:

Well, that will tank WV's tourism draw while turning it into a total shithole.

Oh they got a plan for that

# ? Apr 18, 2024 14:57

Willa Rogers: Mar 11, 2005; Can't post for 7 hours!

Yesterday The Baltimore Sun published the results of the U.S. Senate poll the toplines of which I mentioned the other day in which Hogan is burying both Democratic candidates in head-to-heads, while the millionaire Trone looks to be the likely D candidate.

The sample for this poll was a respectable 1300 likely voters for the general election with a much smaller 600 likely voters for the D primary subset.

quote:

David Trone, a multimillionaire who has spent more than $40 million in Maryland�s U.S. Senate race, has opened a wide gap between himself and Angela Alsobrooks for the Democratic nomination, a new poll from The Baltimore Sun, FOX45 and the University of Baltimore found.

But either would lose to former Republican Gov. Larry Hogan in the general election if it were held now, according to the poll�s sample of nearly 1,300 likely voters. Hogan�s popularity suggests Maryland, where registered Democrats outnumber Republicans by more than 2-to-1, will be a battleground in the national parties� push to win a majority in the narrowly divided Senate.

***

Hogan beat Trone, 53% to 40%, and Alsobrooks, 54% to 36%, in the poll�s hypothetical November matchups. OpinionWorks, which has conducted polls for The Sun since 2007, surveyed a total of 1,292 likely voters of Republican, Democratic, other party and no party affiliation on those questions.

In 2018, Hogan became the first Republican in 70 years to be reelected Maryland governor. He prevailed by presenting a low-key brand of moderation to win critically needed, crossover Democratic votes in one of the nation�s bluest states. His second four-year term ended in January 2023; Maryland governors are limited to two terms.

Raabe said it is significant that 63% of the nearly 1,300 polled viewed Hogan as �independent-minded,� while just 23% considered him �a partisan Republican who will vote with Republicans most of the time.�

�That�s the thing that I would be happiest about, if I were him,� Raabe said.

�Democrats are going to try very hard to cast him as another vote for the Republicans in the Senate. He can say, �I�m an independent.��

The landscape that surrounds Hogan will look different than during his gubernatorial runs.

Unlike in 2014 and 2018, he is running in a presidential election year. While Hogan has clashed with Republican presidential contender Donald Trump, analysts say the likely presence of the polarizing candidate at the top of the November ballot may significantly boost Democratic turnout in the state.

�It�s going to be a much bigger electorate than his gubernatorial runs,� said University of Baltimore professor John Willis, who was secretary of state in the administration of Democratic Gov. Parris Glendening. �And you�ve got to do a lot of number crunching to see where that turnout is coming from and what issues are they motivated by. Whichever the opponent, there�ll be an opportunity to reshape the issues that voters would have to consider.�

Maryland Democrats� hopes in November will rest partly on voters � such as poll respondent Jane Jenkins � who were happy with Hogan as governor, but won�t vote for him now because his election could tip the Senate balance to Republicans.

While she says his views are to the right of her own, �I liked Hogan as governor,� said Jenkins, 71, a Cumberland retiree.

But she says maintaining the Democrats� Senate majority, which allows the party to shape the chamber�s agenda, �is extremely important. Frankly, I think the Democrats have better ideas and are leaning more the way the country feels about issues.�

Jenkins said she will vote for Trone � she is in his congressional district � in the primary and that she had never heard of Alsobrooks �until she threw her hat into the ring.�

Another person surveyed for the poll, Raymond Waters, 44, of Baltimore, said he would likely support Hogan. A former registered Democrat, Waters said he lost faith in the party and became a Republican because of corruption among Baltimore officials, including former Mayor Sheila Dixon�s conviction for stealing gift cards in 2009.

�Maybe the Republicans will do a better job,� Waters said.

***

If she wins in May and November, Alsobrooks would be Maryland�s first Black U.S. senator. Also, she would return a woman to the state�s 10-member congressional delegation.

The poll shows Alsobrooks with a 39% to 35% margin among Black voters in the Democratic primary. Her margin among women and men is identical: she is losing both by 18 points, Raabe said.

�It is surprising there is no gender gap in this race,� Raabe said.

Alsobrooks raised $5 million and spent $1.8 million from May through the end of last year, according to her Federal Election Commission reports.

At this point in time that bipartisan support for & approval of Hogan as governor has really paid off for his Senate run. The margin of his lead in the g.e. is greater than any other R candidate running for the Senate this year among recent polling.

Biden won the state by 33 points in 2020, and Black voters comprise around 30 percent of the electorate, two data points that buttress how unusually well Hogan is doing there.

The DSCC has some heavy lifting to do in order to make him toxic to voters over the next six months.

Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Apr 18, 2024

# ? Apr 18, 2024 14:58

Neat Bee: Apr 17, 2024

Nenonen posted:

Is this election only about a single issue? I would think that Trump winning would be a nightmare for everyone, not just Gazans, but for them too.

This election should be about having a line we don't cross.

Mendrian posted:

The answer to this is quite clear: we don't vote our way out of fascism. The vote has nothing at all to do with signaling your allegiances or changing the country. You pick whichever candidate is the most pragmatic. Then you go back to doing the real work.

If somebody comes up with a mass movement to protest the vote I'm onboard but until then it's just sort of petty. We don't get to choose the outcome of the genocide. It's not on the ballot.

I agree that we don't vote our way out of fascism, I disagree that you can be pragmatic about genocide. At least not without being a willing participant in it and trivializing it as the cost of doing business.

The real work is convincing others to join us in doing everything in our power to upset a system where we're told the base outcome is ethnic cleansing. Genocide is on the ballot, there are leftist candidates that would stop Israel. If they don't win then this government should be forcibly replaced. To those who make the "I'm voting for my safety" argument, I would say you have a moral imperative to put your safety at risk to send a message that we won't tolerate this, we cannot pay for safety with the lives of innocent people. Can anyone be safe if a government that is rapidly falling into fascism makes mass murder a tool in their arsenal?

When Trump first got elected I remember seeing an opinion piece where the take-away was "don't let this become the new normal, don't become numb to this" and I think about that often. We all just spent the last 7 years watching our friends and family on social media sharing variations the same message "Whatever you would be doing in 1930s Germany is what you're doing now". Now that we're all watching a genocide happen on our phones, none of those stated convictions are bearing fruit. I can't overstate how depressing this is.

# ? Apr 18, 2024 15:00

Gyges: Aug 4, 2004; NOW NO ONE
RECOGNIZE HULK

zoux posted:

https://twitter.com/MattKleinOnline/status/1780616545586106487

Whoever wins in WV may be the most LGBT hostile governor in the country.

Oh, you're looking to transition? Just rummage around in the Closet Of Change, it's got what you need. The closet is both Board certified and FDA approved!

# ? Apr 18, 2024 15:04

SpeakSlow: May 17, 2004; Can't post for 5 hours!

Not handwaving away genocide in the least. Genocide is bad. Biden's opinions on the current genocide are bad.

Electing Trump because of a new-found aversion to genocide...well that's just dumb. Your hands are already bloody and there's no way we can stop things as they are with a short-term solution aka "hey guys, stop already". So blaming Biden and withholding your vote doesn't send any sort of message beyond "make this go away".

SpeakSlow fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Apr 18, 2024

# ? Apr 18, 2024 15:35

GlyphGryph: Jun 23, 2013; Down came the glitches and burned us in ditches and we slept after eating our dead.

FLIPADELPHIA posted:

Can you be more specific on what you mean here?

Do you not believe what Israel is doing constitutes genocide? Do you not believe Biden has taken deliberate action to provide Israel with arms during this conflict [that I believe constitutes an attempt at genocide]?

gently caress it. Yes, it's a genocide, yes (afaik) Biden has taken actions to get more arms shipped to Israel. Neither of those answers mean what you clearly want them to mean, but I feel like you have to know that at this point or you wouldn't be phrasing things the way you are.

Now can you answer the questions I asked?

selec posted:

Do you agree that a modern liberal worldview could (and mine does) view those lives as just as valuable as an American life, and so to include them as equal in the political calculations I make?

Sure.

Do you agree that a modern liberal worldview could value them at a hundred times the value of an American life and still find the political calculation adds up to "choosing not to vote Dem is grossly immoral"?

GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Apr 18, 2024

# ? Apr 18, 2024 15:36

World Famous W: May 25, 2007; Can't post for 19 hours!

SpeakSlow posted:

Not handwaving away genocide in the least. Genocide is bad. Biden's opinions on the current genocide are bad.

Electing Trump because of a new-found aversion to genocide...well that's just dumb. Your hands are already bloody and there's no way we can stop things as they are with a short-term solution aka "hey guys, stop already". So blaming Biden and withholding your vote doesn't send any sort of message beyond "make this go away".

this is the second time in days you've claimed that others have "new-found aversion" to our abeting of genocides. do you have any proof of this or are you just going off gut feelings? seems pretty assumptive of people you've never met

# ? Apr 18, 2024 15:43

Fork of Unknown Origins: Oct 21, 2005; Gotta Herd On?

OAquinas posted:

Well, that will tank WV's tourism draw while turning it into a total shithole.

It kills me because WV is my home state and most of my family still lives there. I would love to live close to my parents, aunts, cousins, etc. But I cannot raise kids in WV. I know it can turn out fine, but I�ve also seen it turn out extremely not fine too many times.

WV, I think due to its history of being a Democratic stronghold until modern times, has had a weirdly moderate streak of Senators and sometimes Representatives. Say what you will about Manchin but he�s better to have than the Republicans that have gotten elected in other states. Capito is a relatively moderate Republican (relatively, she�s still looney but she isn�t one of the worse GOPers.)

It looks like, yet again, WV is the waste field left over from a war and that streak is going to break. The continuous poverty and waves of addiction have broken the state. People who were able to left. That leaves behind the people responding positively to horrific ads like this one. People who have nothing and lash out in hate because of it.

I don�t know how to fix any of it and it sucks.

# ? Apr 18, 2024 15:47

DeadlyMuffin: Jul 3, 2007

Neat Bee posted:

This election should be about having a line we don't cross.

I agree that we don't vote our way out of fascism, I disagree that you can be pragmatic about genocide. At least not without being a willing participant in it and trivializing it as the cost of doing business.

The real work is convincing others to join us in doing everything in our power to upset a system where we're told the base outcome is ethnic cleansing. Genocide is on the ballot, there are leftist candidates that would stop Israel. If they don't win then this government should be forcibly replaced. To those who make the "I'm voting for my safety" argument, I would say you have a moral imperative to put your safety at risk to send a message that we won't tolerate this, we cannot pay for safety with the lives of innocent people. Can anyone be safe if a government that is rapidly falling into fascism makes mass murder a tool in their arsenal?

When Trump first got elected I remember seeing an opinion piece where the take-away was "don't let this become the new normal, don't become numb to this" and I think about that often. We all just spent the last 7 years watching our friends and family on social media sharing variations the same message "Whatever you would be doing in 1930s Germany is what you're doing now". Now that we're all watching a genocide happen on our phones, none of those stated convictions are bearing fruit. I can't overstate how depressing this is.

You are willing to sacrifice my safety in an effort that will do nothing to help your cause, and potentially will actually make the situation worse, so that you personally feel more morally righteous.

You aren't my ally.

Edit: also, post on your main.

DeadlyMuffin fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Apr 18, 2024

# ? Apr 18, 2024 15:50

GlyphGryph: Jun 23, 2013; Down came the glitches and burned us in ditches and we slept after eating our dead.

DeadlyMuffin posted:

You are willing to sacrifice my safety in an effort that will do nothing to help your cause, and potentially will actually make the situation worse, so that you personally feel more morally righteous.

You aren't my ally.

This is really what this conversation comes down to every time, isn't it?

# ? Apr 18, 2024 15:54

Rookersh: Aug 19, 2010

DeadlyMuffin posted:

You are willing to sacrifice my safety in an effort that will do nothing to help your cause, and potentially will actually make the situation worse, so that you personally feel more morally righteous.

You aren't my ally.

It'll also make their cause worse!

Biden has committed to rebuilding Gaza and brought on a bunch of EU/Arab States to help the Palestinians.

Trump and Kushner have committed to handing the land to Israel, and land grabbing as much of Gaza as they can for personal gain.

Like all they get is feel good moral righteousness. If the worst comes to pass, they not only damage their allies who are in direct danger, but they also damage the folks they are willing to abandon said allies for.

I love white liberal allyship. They won't feel the effects, so it's no skin off their backs. They are only leftist because they get to feel like the good guys.

# ? Apr 18, 2024 15:56

Xiahou Dun: Jul 16, 2009; We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.

GlyphGryph posted:

This is really what this conversation comes down to every time, isn't it?

And the fact that they have no plan for how their lack of voting will lead to any change.

Or well, not a plan that works.

# ? Apr 18, 2024 15:57

Xombie: May 22, 2004; Soul Thrashing Black Sorcery

Willa Rogers posted:

Yesterday The Baltimore Sun published the results of a U.S. Senate poll they sponsored in which Hogan is burying both Democratic candidates in head-to-heads, while the millionaire Trone looks to be the likely D candidate.

The sample for this poll was a respectable 1300 likely voters for the general election with a much smaller 600 likely voters for the D primary subset.

At this point in time that bipartisan support for & approval of Hogan as governor has really paid off for his Senate run. The margin of his lead in the g.e. is greater than any other R candidate running for the Senate this year among recent polling.

Biden won the state by 33 points in 2020, and Black voters comprise around 30 percent of the electorate, two data points that buttress how unusually well Hogan is doing there.

The DSCC has some heavy lifting to do in order to make him toxic to voters over the next six months.

This is just the numbers you posted the other day, and the same problems with it remain. Hogan is still winning on name recognition ahead of the Democratic primary. "Independent-minded" helps someone running for governor, but doesn't help when he might hand power in the Senate to the GOP just by having "R" next to his name. Hogan has only won elections in non-presidential election years and he'd have to split off Biden voters by double digits.

Hogan would not be the first popular "bipartisan" governor to lose a senate race because of his party affiliation.

Xombie fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Apr 18, 2024

# ? Apr 18, 2024 15:59

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Yo, we just gotta RISE UP, GAMERS.

# ? Apr 18, 2024 16:00

The Mattybee: Sep 15, 2007; despair.

Neat Bee posted:

The real work is convincing others to join us in doing everything in our power to upset a system where we're told the base outcome is ethnic cleansing.

If you actually think this, why has all of your posting been about "genocide is bad", a statement that thus far, nobody has disagreed with?

Neat Bee posted:

Genocide is on the ballot, there are leftist candidates that would stop Israel.

Huh, that's weird. The work is in convincing others to vote for a more leftist candidate, which is why you have yet to discuss them, you've just been screaming that "genocide is bad", which seems more like the purpose is to depress votes for Biden than voting for a more leftist candidate.

Neat Bee posted:

If they don't win then this government should be forcibly replaced.

Okay, so what's your plan for--

Neat Bee posted:

Are you hoping for a 10 point plan on how to dismantle and replace the two party system? There's no roadmap.

Oh. You don't have one. Huh. So I should just trust someone who can't even post on their main account, who doesn't have any plan or anything beyond "genocide bad"? Seems risky.

Neat Bee posted:

To those who make the "I'm voting for my safety" argument, I would say you have a moral imperative to put your safety at risk to send a message that we won't tolerate this, we cannot pay for safety with the lives of innocent people. Can anyone be safe if a government that is rapidly falling into fascism makes mass murder a tool in their arsenal?

But you have no moral obligation to do the least harm, nor do your own actions reflect your words (which is why you aren't trying to convince people to vote for a more leftist candidate, you're telling people they are obligated to not vote for Biden).

Why should anyone believe that this is anything other than trying to stir the pot, especially as someone with a very similar name was probated just recently for saying basically the same "the government needs to be taken down" poo poo?

# ? Apr 18, 2024 16:09

theCalamity: Oct 23, 2010; Can't post for 5 hours!

World Famous W posted:

this is the second time in days you've claimed that others have "new-found aversion" to our abeting of genocides. do you have any proof of this or are you just going off gut feelings? seems pretty assumptive of people you've never met

Not only that, but if people come around to the fact that what Israel is doing is genocide and is bad, that�s a good thing

# ? Apr 18, 2024 16:13

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

https://twitter.com/stephen_neukam/status/1780743789390233867

I'm setting the O/U of "Americans who know who know who Alejandro Mayorkas is" at 1%. What are you taking?

# ? Apr 18, 2024 16:16

Neat Bee: Apr 17, 2024

DeadlyMuffin posted:

You are willing to sacrifice my safety in an effort that will do nothing to help your cause, and potentially will actually make the situation worse, so that you personally feel more morally righteous.

You aren't my ally.

Edit: also, post on your main.

Everyone's safety at risk if this continues. The Democratic Party are not only normalizing ethnic cleansing, they are contributing to the rise in global fascism.

Allies are people who want to build a government that won't see your rights as a chip to be traded away to build bipartisanship with fascists.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/06/us/transgender-athletes-title-ix-biden-adminstration.html

Rookersh posted:

It'll also make their cause worse!

Biden has committed to rebuilding Gaza and brought on a bunch of EU/Arab States to help the Palestinians.

So will offering zero push-back to the supposed good guys outflanking Republicans on mass murder.

Biden had made many promises that he hasn't even attempted to fulfill. Why should I believe that when he concludes this genocide that he'll help the scant few that survived? Also how is this even a positive? That's like saying Hitler plans a nice vacation home for the Jews who escaped from Auschwitz.

Xiahou Dun posted:

And the fact that they have no plan for how their lack of voting will lead to any change.

Or well, not a plan that works.

I can say the exact same thing to the people who believe in lesser-evil voting. It has made things steadily worse for decades, and now people are insisting we must repeat the definition of insanity.

I have not heard a single compelling argument how voting Dem in 2024 will bring about the end of our slide into fascism or even stop the party from sliding to the right.

# ? Apr 18, 2024 16:20

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

zoux posted:

https://twitter.com/stephen_neukam/status/1780743789390233867

I'm setting the O/U of "Americans who know who know who Alejandro Mayorkas is" at 1%. What are you taking?

Yeah, nobody is going to remember any of that in a week.

# ? Apr 18, 2024 16:21

Elephant Ambush: Nov 13, 2012; Can't post for 7 hours!; Nap Ghost

DeadlyMuffin posted:

You are willing to sacrifice my safety in an effort that will do nothing to help your cause, and potentially will actually make the situation worse, so that you personally feel more morally righteous.

This is absolutely hilarious coming from the liberal votescolders

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Apr 18, 2024 16:22

Kagrenak: Sep 8, 2010

Xiahou Dun posted:

And the fact that they have no plan for how their lack of voting will lead to any change.

Or well, not a plan that works.

What are you talking about, the forcible overthrow of the US government they suggested is definitely a solid and realistic plan that if successful would definitely result in a leftist government being installed.

Neat Bee posted:

.

I have not heard a single compelling argument how voting Dem in 2024 will bring about the end of our slide into fascism or even stop the party from sliding to the right.

So what are you doing about it then? Other than giving whoever wins the elections you don't vote in half a vote.

Kagrenak fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Apr 18, 2024

# ? Apr 18, 2024 16:23

Xiahou Dun: Jul 16, 2009; We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.

Neat Bee posted:

I can say the exact same thing to the people who believe in lesser-evil voting. It has made things steadily worse for decades, and now people are insisting we must repeat the definition of insanity.

I have not heard a single compelling argument how voting Dem in 2024 will bring about the end of our slide into fascism or even stop the party from sliding to the right.

You can say a lot of stupid poo poo, it doesn't make it true.

# ? Apr 18, 2024 16:25

yronic heroism: Oct 31, 2008

GlyphGryph posted:

Sure.

Do you agree that a modern liberal worldview could value them at a hundred times the value of an American life and still find the political calculation adds up to "choosing not to vote Dem is grossly immoral"?

Relatedly, if one agrees with the saying �no ethical consumption under capitalism,� what does that say about the ethics of any voting choice you can make in the US in tyool 2024. (And yes I�m including not voting as a voting choice.)

yronic heroism fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Apr 18, 2024

# ? Apr 18, 2024 16:25

Neat Bee: Apr 17, 2024

Kagrenak posted:

What are you talking about, the forcible overthrow of the US government they suggested is definitely a solid and realistic plan that if successful would definitely result in a leftist government being installed.

The alternative is a guaranteed fascist government backed by 250 years of tradition and precedent.

# ? Apr 18, 2024 16:26

FLIPADELPHIA: Apr 27, 2007; Heavy Shit; Grimey Drawer

GlyphGryph posted:

Now can you answer the questions I asked?

Here's my questions:
What behaviour do you think I am advocating for?

I am making an assumption here, but it looks like you are advocating for supporting Biden with your vote, despite admitting that he's actively and knowingly contributing to an ongoing genocide by supplying the aggressor with munitions.

What behaviour are you advocating for?

I am not advocating for as much as defending the notion that some people can't bring themselves to vote for someone actively enabling genocide, and that this is an ethically defensible position.

How do you think those differ, especially but not exclusively in terms of outcomes?

I don't think individual voters actions statistically affect outcomes. I also don't think voting has to be 100% tactical. If Biden authorized a strike that killed an innocent family member of yours, would you still vote for him? One more innocent death at his behest wouldn't change the tactical calculus of Trump v Biden.

And for what it's worth, I do appreciate you engaging with these questions and asking your own. I assume you're operating in good faith and I hope I can convince you I am as well- and that I am open to having my assumptions challenged.

FLIPADELPHIA fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Apr 18, 2024

# ? Apr 18, 2024 16:35

RBA Starblade: Apr 28, 2008; Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Willa Rogers posted:

Yesterday The Baltimore Sun published the results of a U.S. Senate poll they sponsored in which Hogan is burying both Democratic candidates in head-to-heads, while the millionaire Trone looks to be the likely D candidate.

The sample for this poll was a respectable 1300 likely voters for the general election with a much smaller 600 likely voters for the D primary subset.

At this point in time that bipartisan support for & approval of Hogan as governor has really paid off for his Senate run. The margin of his lead in the g.e. is greater than any other R candidate running for the Senate this year among recent polling.

Biden won the state by 33 points in 2020, and Black voters comprise around 30 percent of the electorate, two data points that buttress how unusually well Hogan is doing there.

The DSCC has some heavy lifting to do in order to make him toxic to voters over the next six months.

There's no way imo, Hogan's pretty well regarded in the area. Even a couple socialists I know in real life like him. The guy's a shoe-in.

# ? Apr 18, 2024 16:35

SpeakSlow: May 17, 2004; Can't post for 5 hours!

World Famous W posted:

this is the second time in days you've claimed that others have "new-found aversion" to our abeting of genocides. do you have any proof of this or are you just going off gut feelings? seems pretty assumptive of people you've never met

I mean, the genocides continue? If there were the political willpower to have stopped this from happening, it would have been exercised by now.

# ? Apr 18, 2024 16:42

volts5000: Apr 7, 2009; It's electric. Boogie woogie woogie.

The Mattybee posted:

If you actually think this, why has all of your posting been about "genocide is bad", a statement that thus far, nobody has disagreed with?

Huh, that's weird. The work is in convincing others to vote for a more leftist candidate, which is why you have yet to discuss them, you've just been screaming that "genocide is bad", which seems more like the purpose is to depress votes for Biden than voting for a more leftist candidate.

Okay, so what's your plan for--

Oh. You don't have one. Huh. So I should just trust someone who can't even post on their main account, who doesn't have any plan or anything beyond "genocide bad"? Seems risky.

But you have no moral obligation to do the least harm, nor do your own actions reflect your words (which is why you aren't trying to convince people to vote for a more leftist candidate, you're telling people they are obligated to not vote for Biden).

Why should anyone believe that this is anything other than trying to stir the pot, especially as someone with a very similar name was probated just recently for saying basically the same "the government needs to be taken down" poo poo?

What makes me suspect of the whole thing is that it's ONLY Gazans that they care about. The minute you bring up any other group, trans people, people affected by abortion rights, Ukrainians, people who were affect by our drone strike program, etc. they get all handwavy. "Whoever's in charge, just let the chips fall where they may." It's inconsistent. I know my vote won't stop the genocide, but I know my not voting doesn't stop it and my voting a third party doesn't stop it. So why vote? It stops other bad things from happening and other bad things from getting worse. The cavalier attitude towards trans rights, etc. just makes me suspect.

Neat Bee posted:

Everyone's safety at risk if this continues. The Democratic Party are not only normalizing ethnic cleansing, they are contributing to the rise in global fascism.

Allies are people who want to build a government that won't see your rights as a chip to be traded away to build bipartisanship with fascists.

So basically we'll all be fodder in the revolution.

# ? Apr 18, 2024 16:43

World Famous W: May 25, 2007; Can't post for 19 hours!

SpeakSlow posted:

I mean, the genocides continue? If there were the political willpower to have stopped this from happening, it would have been exercised by now.

not what i asked. i asked for some proof or argument that posters you are responding to only recently started caring about this

you've claimed it twice. is it just an assumption?

# ? Apr 18, 2024 16:44

Digamma-F-Wau: Mar 22, 2016; It is curious and wants to accept all kinds of challenges

If you vote for Biden you support the genocide and thus you should kill yourself

If you don't vote for Biden you'll let Trump win which means you support the genocide and thus you should kill yourself

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Apr 18, 2024 16:48

Shageletic: Jul 25, 2007

RBA Starblade posted:

There's no way imo, Hogan's pretty well regarded in the area. Even a couple socialists I know in real life like him. The guy's a shoe-in.

Did these socialists agree with Hogan scrapping public transit for Baltimore in favor of rural projects that was so blatantly discriminatory he got sued for it? https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/23/maryland-lawsuit-baltimore-rail-project-racism-larry-hogan

# ? Apr 18, 2024 16:51

World Famous W: May 25, 2007; Can't post for 19 hours!

Digamma-F-Wau posted:

If you vote for Biden you support the genocide and thus you should kill yourself

If you don't vote for Biden you'll let Trump win which means you support the genocide and thus you should kill yourself

ill start making the kool-aid. how many gallons for all us voting age citizens do you think ill need?

# ? Apr 18, 2024 16:51

volts5000: Apr 7, 2009; It's electric. Boogie woogie woogie.

Digamma-F-Wau posted:

If you vote for Biden you support the genocide and thus you should kill yourself

If you don't vote for Biden you'll let Trump win which means you support the genocide and thus you should kill yourself

Try and leave the country, and you've abdicated your responsibility to end the genocide and thus you should kill yourself

# ? Apr 18, 2024 16:52

Shammypants: May 25, 2004; Let me tell you about true luxury.

RBA Starblade posted:

There's no way imo, Hogan's pretty well regarded in the area. Even a couple socialists I know in real life like him. The guy's a shoe-in.

Lol get the gently caress out of here man.

# ? Apr 18, 2024 16:55

Willa Rogers: Mar 11, 2005; Can't post for 7 hours!

Xombie posted:

This is just the numbers you posted the other day, and the same problems with it remain. Hogan is still winning on name recognition ahead of the Democratic primary. "Independent-minded" helps someone running for governor, but doesn't help when he might hand power in the Senate to the GOP just by having "R" next to his name. Hogan has only won elections in non-presidential election years and he'd have to split off Biden voters by double digits.

Hogan would not be the first popular "bipartisan" governor to lose a senate race because of his party affiliation.

I posted the Baltimore Sun story today bc it was a deep dive into the numbers; all I posted the other day were the margins by which Hogan was winning.

I found it particularly notable that the sample size was large (larger than many national g.e. polls), was comprised of likely voters (instead of registered voters or all adults), and that Hogan is doing far better than the other Republican candidates running for the Senate, even in deep-red states like Texas & Florida.

I also found it interesting that the Black candidate on the Democratic side isn't leading by a notable margin among Black voters.

I guess we'll see as we get closer to November, and after the Democratic primary, whether Hogan will be successfully tainted as a Republican or continue to hold a lead that his fellow GOP candidates would envy.

eta:

RBA Starblade posted:

There's no way imo, Hogan's pretty well regarded in the area. Even a couple socialists I know in real life like him. The guy's a shoe-in.

Yeah, I think he's a shoo-in too, especially given his prior approvals as governor by Democratic voters (and their votes!) as well as the huge margin I mentioned.

etaa:

I edited the prior post to note that it's the same poll the toplines of which I referenced the other day.

Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Apr 18, 2024

# ? Apr 18, 2024 17:01

Kagrenak: Sep 8, 2010

Neat Bee posted:

The alternative is a guaranteed fascist government backed by 250 years of tradition and precedent.

Ah so there's no other forms of activism or politicking than voting or a violent bloody civil war. Well then I'm glad you've sorted it out.

# ? Apr 18, 2024 17:05

Bodyholes: Jun 30, 2005

Staluigi posted:

whatever efforts get made to compel people on the left end of the political spectrum to argue for their own collective political nonparticipation (whether into nonvoting or into engineered vote splitting), i DO at least get to say they create some of the wildest pretzel logic rationales i got to see since the Walk Away movement

You never see the far right argue against electoralism. You never see the far right sit back and let their opponents win as a 4d chess play. They are committed to probing every avenue they can to further their goals and the last 40 years are a testament to the effectiveness of their tenacity.

It's weird that it's only the left that believes this stuff. This is why I am convinced it's a psyop. Probably the most effective psyop in history - using the language of the left to neuter it. The think tank agent that suggested throwing some Lenin and Luxemburg in there deserves a pay raise.

# ? Apr 18, 2024 17:05

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# ? May 2, 2024 08:02

Willa Rogers: Mar 11, 2005; Can't post for 7 hours!

Shammypants posted:

Lol get the gently caress out of here man.

I don't understand this post; can you go into a little more depth, please?

eta the poll I mentioned the other day about Hogan's high approvals among Democrats; it was taken in Jan. 2023.

quote:

Gov. Larry Hogan (R) will leave office Wednesday with the same stratospheric job approval ratings that he�s enjoyed for most of his time in office.

A recent poll conducted for Gonzales Research & Media Services, an Arnold-based polling firm, showed Hogan leaving office with an eye-popping 77% of Marylanders approving of the job he�s doing as governor. That�s just one tick below the 78% high-water mark he received two other times in the Gonzales poll, which has been tracking Hogan�s popularity since January 2016, a year after he became governor.

In the poll, Hogan had an astonishing 81% job approval rating among Democrats � 13 points higher than it was among Republicans. Seventy-six percent of non-affiliated voters said they approved of the job Hogan is doing. Equally significant, Hogan�s job approval rating among Black voters was at 81%, compared to 76% for white voters.

The telephone poll of 823 registered voters was taken Jan. 9-14, using a combination of land lines and cell phones. It had a 3.5-point margin of error.

Hogan�s job approval ratings would be the envy of any politician, and far outstrip voters� feelings for President Biden. In the Gonzales poll, 58% of Maryland voters said they approved of the job Biden is doing, compared to 41% who did not. And they�re far more divided along partisan and racial lines.

Biden�s job approval rating among Democrats was equal to Hogan�s: 81%. Pollster Patrick Gonzales called that statistical tie �the most fascinating finding in this survey.�

https://www.marylandmatters.org/202...-lobbying-firm/

Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Apr 18, 2024

# ? Apr 18, 2024 17:05

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USCE 2024: DEA Rescheduling Weed, An 'Istoric Shift

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