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D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

Kratom is not anywhere near as good of a thing as the kraton advocates will tell you, but on the other hand I know quite a few people who have used it successfully to get off heroin and other hardcore opiate addictions. Out of all the opiate or opiate like agonists out there it's by far the least destructive. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be regulated more than it is and nobody should just start taking it out of the blue but if you are struggling with a bad opiate addiction it can be a real lifesaver.

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D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

zoux posted:



Speculation time: Trump is famously a teetotaller, so do we think AB Inbev paid him for this or what

It's because he owns $5 million in stock:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-anheuser-busch-stock-owner-wants-to-give-bud-light-another-chance

I imagine Trump has been meeting with his finance people a lot lately and they finally got through to him just how hosed he is going to be after these verdicts comes down and he eventually loses on appeal. He's scrambling to do anything he can to increase the value of any assets he owns.

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

Byzantine posted:

Harris would get absolutely demolished by Trump and everybody knows it, so no matter what the truth of Biden's condition is or how bad he may get, he'll be propped up to run so long as he's still technically alive. Hell, even if he's dead they might try to hide it until the Electoral College votes.

I feel like the more his age becomes an issue the more likely they are to replace Harris with someone more liked (lol I don't know who) because that's really the only response they could do even if it's a half assed one. Basically saying ok you are worried about Biden's age, here's a VP candidate you'd be happy with taking over if it comes down to it.

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

Levitate posted:

I suspect, but without obvious hard evidence, that if you swapped "US Government" for "China's Government" in the structure of TikTok and ByteDance then a lot of people defending it would instead be pretty critical and skeptical.
Just because it's not the US government doesn't mean it's all a good thing, I think people should be highly skeptical of a setup like the one between ByteDance and China's government and not dismiss it because "the US is bad" and "I like this thing".

That all said, I don't know if this legislation is particularly useful or overreacting or the stated reasons are cover for more nefarious reasons. Just that saying "but the NSA spies on US citizens and other countries too!" isn't some gotcha that absolves the Chinese government for doing that. We can say "both of these things are bad and shouldn't be done!"

It's this. The issue is that even if they aren't currently abusing it, the CCP has absolute control over every single aspect of TikTok if they decide they want to give them marching orders. Any refusal would just get their CEO disappeared like has repeatedly happened to other Chinese CEOs who were mostly towing the line already. I would be strongly against a US government lead by either side having that power over any of our social media companies. Selling it to a US company is not going to magically fix everything, it'll still have all the issues that our homegrown social media companies have like data privacy stuff and the US government will still have more influence over it than it should, but it won't be the same. If Trump wins in November and they pass a law that says he has complete control over Facebook/Twitter/etc I strongly doubt there is a single person in this thread who would be ok with that and we shouldn't be ok with China currently having that power. It doesn't mean I like the idea of the US banning or forcing sales of companies, especially over reasons I don't agree with (the palestine support thing mentioned upthread), but I'd be a hypocrite if I said it was ok for a government to have this type of control just because it's China.

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

Craig K posted:

yeah it's probably just me being Kids These Days Raargh

the lack of computer knowledge concerns me though, but hell come 2040 everything might be done by tablet anyway

We've given our 8 year old more tablet time than a lot of people recommend, but we are extremely careful about monitoring what he is doing, having super frequent conversations about all the various pitfalls and bad things, conversations about things he stumbles upon that need context from an adult, etc. I personally think banning him from it completely is the wrong move because if we did at some point he will get access and be a babe in the woods. In my opinion it's much better to safely expose and hold his hand through it all and prepare him for it than thrust him into it later on unprepared. These things are here to stay and are going to be a major part of his life for the rest of his life. The kids in his class that I see that have problems either get zero screen time (but plenty of their classmates do so they are getting it all filtered through the mind of other 8 year olds) or get completely unrestricted access with no guidance.

The lack of deep tech knowledge is a problem so that's something I work with him on. We aren't going to let him graduate high school and not know how to do the things like navigate a file structure, what a pdf is, or all the other stuff you see about gen z.

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

Byzantine posted:

It's basically the harm reduction argument but coming from the other side. Yeah, it'd be great if there was an option where nobody was harvesting data, but that option doesn't exist. The options are the Chinese government stockpiling your data, or right-wing American billionaires stockpiling your data, and a lot of people see China as the less harmful of the two.

This is correct but I think the threat the government is more worried about is manipulation of the algorithm. If you haven't used TikTok it can be hard to understand just how crazy good their algorithm is at delivering the right content to the right eyeballs and keeping attention etc. All the social media networks have similar goals for their algorithms but when you spend a lot of time on TikTok you come to understand theirs is so much better at those goals. If you have used TikTok it's incredibly interesting to ask your friends that do to switch their phones with you so you can browse the others FYP. It's shocking how different the experience is and what videos are served between me and my wife for example.

Anyway I got off on a bit of a tangent, but while the Chinese government having access to all my data is concerning, the fact is if they wanted it they could buy it/steal it/otherwise get it from third parties. It's being presented as the primary problem but I think the powers that be are much more concerned about the incredibly huge influence the Chinese government could have on most of the younger generation and a decent chunk of the older generation if they decided to tweak the algorithm to serve up content slanted in a specific direction on whatever political issue they want. The Palestine/Israel thing posted up thread doesn't concern me but it is an example of what I am talking about.

If we get a Hunter Biden laptop style story in October and the Chinese government wants to gently caress with the election they could have a much bigger effect through TikTok than we got through Facebook or Twitter in 2016. I haven't seen solid evidence they are abusing this ability right now but as relations continue to deteriorate they have a psyop ability that previous state actors could only dream about. If the Taiwan straight went hot how comfortable would we be with China having absolute control over the content a decent chunk of the population sees for hours every single day? It's the sole news source for most of Gen Z.

I wouldn't want the American government to have that level of control of it either, but if it was sold to an American company I don't believe they would have nearly the same level of influence over it although I do believe they would still have some.

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

hooman posted:

I see what you mean but the context in which this is being discussed is a law in the US though. This law isn't about China's ability to sway hundred's of millions of minds in "the west", it is about the ability to do that in the US.

I don't think that other countries should be passing laws forcing American divestment of meta and google, even though America has the ability to sway hundreds of millions of minds in the world. If you hold the inverse position, that all social media should be controlled by subsidiaries without the country in which it operates, that's a reasonable position to have but I don't think there's any trend for that to happen at the moment.

The American government does not even have close to the same ability to dictate terms to Google and Meta as the CCP does to TikTok. It's just not the same. Note I am not saying they don't have any influence or control at all nor am I arguing that what they do have isn't potentially bad for other countries. But it isn't the same degree at all.

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

Isn't that 6% taken from the seller's side of things? Which in theory prices should come down because of the reduced fees but in reality won't they still try and get the current prices and pocket the difference in reduced fees? How would this actually bring house prices down?

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

yronic heroism posted:

The economic theory will be that the market will dictate the price and the sellers will want to undercut each other rather than lose the sale, so their incentive is there to accept less on the sale price if they’re still pocketing the same amount as before.

In practice does this work the same with home sellers listing probably their most valuable asset as it does with groceries or other retail items sold at volume? Idk, ask an economist.

Yeah seems like that would be more likely if there wasn't a massive shortage of needed homes. If supply was where it should be I could see it but as is in most markets sellers don't need to undercut each other in order to not lose a sale.

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Here's a tweet chain from a major California realtor explaining her side of the story on the new DOJ settlement with the National Association of Realtors.

Here primary argument is that this will drive a ton of realtors out of the profession, especially on the buying side where it takes a lot more work and you might never get a commission if they don't buy something, and force the remaining realtors to represent sellers because that is where the money will be now. This will cause buyers to be unrepresented from the shortage.



This is BS because buyers agents do hardly any work and sellers agents do a lot more (although still not worth 3%). I've gone through two transactions with different agents and buyer's agents provide nothing even close to the value of what they are charging. Literally nowadays they just set up a search on MLS filtered to what you are looking for that automatically emails you when a house is listed that meets those criteria. So they aren't even finding potential properties for you. You give them a time you want to do a walkthrough and they call the listing agent and meet you over there to unlock it.

Their only real value add is for first time buyers that are very ignorant of the process and incapable of using Google or asking their friends questions about how it works or in situations where they prevent some shady poo poo from going down because they have the experience to see a bad deal that a new buyer wouldn't necessarily know. But none of what they do is worth even close to the multiple thousands of dollars they are making. It already is setup so that they don't get paid unless they actually get a sale so that isn't changing. Our last transaction was more complicated than usual due to a few factors and the agent made around $30k for less than 10 hours of work. It's ridiculous.

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

Rocko Bonaparte posted:

Yeah I really feel this. We went through two realtors before settling on our third and we're not particularly inspired by them either. It's pretty much this.

When we were buying in here original ... nearly two decades ago (drat), we found a buyer's broker that has turned out to be exceptional. She had been in the area most of her life and knew which builders had done which subdivisions 20-30 decades ago and what their problems all were. She was up on some of the code shenanigans people pull and would tell us when somebody had done something to a house that we'd strongly risk having to completely tear out. She retired a few years ago but we still just kind of talk to her about stuff, although lately it's been ranting a lot about the process in area to which we're trying to move.

Now it's basically, "Nice house you found on Redfin! Totally worth $50k over. We doing this?" That's when they actually respond and don't forget about their appointments you set up with them before flying across the country to look at places.

Yeah this kind of agent has an argument for that level of commission because you aren't getting that knowledge anywhere else but they are probably one in every hundred agents if that.

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

Ogmius815 posted:

He seemed so normal in his 20s…

I think he probably was but then he got hit in the head several thousand times by giant monsters out for blood. Personality changes aren't surprising.

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

watch Stringer Bell start a war

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

A couple of years would be very fast for America, but there are a lot of other countries that can put infrastructure up like that real fast. Some of them are shoddy but there are ones that are done well and speedily too.

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

I think it also will depend on whether they just have to replace the span that collapsed or the entire thing if the ends that are still standing were structurally damaged or not suitable to build back onto.

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

Yeah concrete dolphins get used to prevent this sort of thing in a lot of bridges but I'm not sure you can reasonably make one that can withstand a fully loaded panamax. Just an insane amount of force.

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

Quantum Cat posted:

Hey any of y'all clutching pearls over tik tok the other day wanna take a moment to address this?

https://techcrunch.com/2024/03/26/facebook-secret-project-snooped-snapchat-user-traffic/amp/

"In 2016, Facebook launched a secret project designed to intercept and decrypt the network traffic between people using Snapchat’s app and its servers."

It's lovely and FB should get in trouble for it and/or congress should pass laws banning this type of thing if they don't already exist, but it's a great example of why TikTok should be divested because Facebook would actually comply with such a legal ruling or law while TikTok does not have to do so if Beijing orders them not to. They could easily claim compliance but unless the USG has the ability to review every single line of code on every single server both in the US and China it's just lip service. All social media companies are engaged in shady bullshit and it should be addressed just as much for US companies as TikTok, but TikTok is ultimately under the absolute control of Beijing.

Outside of these issues is the incredibly sway the TikTok algorithm can have over a large number of Americans. Gen Z gets the majority of their news from TikTok for example. We have laws that Beijing can't own and run a Fox News or CNN for a reason and the same should apply to a platform like TikTok that arguably has just as much of an impact on the population if not more than the traditional news outlets have.

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

https://twitter.com/michaeldweiss/status/1774584385737519391?t=IxfmCn3gQRoaZCFXLcIjfw&s=19

I see two possibilities here.

A. The US intelligence community got completely outdone by these journalists

B. They knew and lied about it in their report because if they admitted they knew this info it would force a confrontation with Russia for outright attacking Americans overseas.

Neither option is a good one.

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

James Garfield posted:

The article seems like it's leaning toward the second option:

I mean I don't like the fact they did it at all but I can certainly understand the impulse. Acknowledging to the public that the Russians are directly attacking Americans serving overseas including non-military diplomatic staff and their families puts the administration in a real bind. It demands a response and more sanctions probably aren't going to cut it in the eye of most Americans. The Republicans are going to use it as a cudgel despite the hypocrisy because of their posture towards Russia and the fact the IC probably knew when Trump was still in office. I guess the only possible silver lining is if it turned enough of Washington back against the Russians that we can start getting Ukraine aid regularly passed again.

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

Main Paineframe posted:

This report is missing an extremely critical piece: any actual evidence at all of the supposed directed-energy weapons actually being used, by Russians or anyone else.

They have evidence that Russian spies were snooping around US embassies in various countries, but embassies and other diplomatic outposts are frequently involved in spying and being spied on, so that's hardly indicative of much.

They have evidence that the Soviets had active research programs into acoustic weapons and electromagnetic brainwashing beams back in the 70s and 80s, but given the kinds of wild-rear end poo poo the CIA was trying to research back then, that doesn't necessarily mean Russia has any of those things now. And even if the Russians do have acoustic or microwave weapons, that doesn't necessarily mean that they're using them on US diplomatic personnel. After all, dozens of countries have acoustic weapons, and a number of countries have or at least claim to have directed-energy weapons of various sorts.

What they don't have is any evidence that these Russian spies are using acoustic or directed-energy weapons to cause Havana Syndrome.

Someone is clearly leaking quite a bit of info here if a bunch of journalists have managed to get their hands on the personal call logs and travel logs of multiple Russian intelligence agents. But while they have enough info here to establish "Russian spies were near the embassies" and "Russian intelligence agencies have been interested in developing directed-energy weapons", they do basically nothing to establish their actual claim of "Russian spies were using directed-energy weapons on US personnel, causing Havana Syndrome in them".

Eh, that's exactly the advice one would expect authorities to give if they thought the illnesses were psychosomatic. I'm not sure how the article gets from "don't tell young kids that loud noises will make them sick and they should flee from them" to "The implication here is that not only are AHIs real, but U.S. diplomats are all too aware of how they happen and who’s behind them".

You aren't wrong, but it's a highly classified Russian intelligence operation. Direct evidence is typically not going to be available outside of a defector, mole, or Putin holding a press conference and admitting it. They lay out a pretty convincing case though in my opinion. Certainly enough to swing Occam's in this explanation's direction over almost a hundred people experiencing some sort of mass hysteria event with many of them not knowing or having contact with each other and experiencing the symptoms before this was widely reported in the news.

Boris Galerkin posted:

How does this square with the fact that just earlier this month NYT reported that the NIH found:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/18/us/politics/havana-syndrome-brain-studies-nih.html

We've been hearing about "Havana syndrome" forever now and I don't know what to believe anymore. But I'm sick and tired of this back and forth. It's getting ridiculous.

So two different claims here that are worth differentiating between. The NIH is saying they didn't find evidence of a brain injury in scans or blood work but their report is careful to say that doesn't mean it didn't happen or the people are lying. There are many possible explanations for why they might not see evidence in a scan especially months or years after the original attack.

The second claim is the intelligence community report that came out recently that said the symptoms were not caused by an attack from a hostile foreign adversary. I don't know about you, but I don't really trust intelligence community reports especially in a situation like this where all the incentives for them are to lie. Nobody wants to deal with the results of admitting the Russians have been attacking Americans and their families overseas often times causing permanent debilitating injuries when we are already as far up the escalation ladder anybody cares to go with sanctions and material and intelligence support for Ukraine.

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

Professor Beetus posted:

Judging by my phone calls "not getting it down to zero" is getting rid of essentially none of them. I had one at 7:30 am local time the other day. Most of my spam calls are from dirtbag real estate people trying to low-ball me for property I don't even own. The disadvantage to having a real old number I guess is that once your number is out there, nothing's going to stop anyone from calling you.

My pixel is worth its weight in gold because it automatically screens all the spam calls and if it isn't sure it answers for me and asks them what they want then types their reply on the screen so I can decide to answer or not.

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

small butter posted:

Interestingly, I ate at a Michelin-starred Sichuan restaurant in Manhattan once and I thought that my local Brooklyn Sichuan spot was better. It was one star if I recall correctly and not particularly fancy.

I also ate at this other very unique and fancy Sichuan place in Manhattan and the food was just very interesting with combinations I've never had before. Not Michelin-starred.

Sichuan food is by far my favorite food after spending time in China, and I've found the more fancy Sichuan places can be good but it just really isn't the same as the authentic sichuan dishes you'd find in a regular mom and pop place in China or the equivalent over here. Like they are using similar ingredients and flavor profiles, but it's basically a whole new thing at that point if you try and make it fancy.

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

Mustang posted:

I don't know how you could possibly engage rural people on things like the economy. Things like facts, data, research, and experts are all considered the realm of overeducated big city liberals and thus can't be trusted. Or it's liberal elites "talking down" to the noble hillbilly.

I'm one of those weirdos that tries to have these discussions with people, and I may as well be talking to a brick wall when it comes to rural white folks. They are completely and utterly impervious to any kind of facts or reason.

I think about this a lot because I agree that it would be massively beneficial to the country if rural white people didn't vote in huge numbers across the country for fascists, but I'll be damned if I know how you can possibly win these people over without catering to their repulsive social beliefs.

The Democratic party giving more support to the few rural liberals that are out there? Seems to me like they would easily be painted as carpetbaggers for having the support of the party that is largely urban and educated.

The backwards social and cultural beliefs of rural Americans seem like an impossible hurdle to overcome.

This. I am originally from a small Texas town and it's really easy to underestimate just how captured they are by their specific media sources and how insular and tribal the rural bubble they live in is. Even if a rural person starts to realize the truth there is incredible social pressure to toe the line. The way community and socialization works in these areas is drastically different from living in a city because you know everybody and everybody knows you and you see them constantly at places like the only supermarket in town. Everyone's children are dating and marrying each other etc. Around 30% of the county votes democratic and out of the hundreds of people I know there I can only name 2-3 people that are open about it.

Realistically the only thing dems can do is continue trying to pass the policies that actually help people while the right continues to be poo poo and eventually they might start noticing. Alternatively, we have to wait for the boomers to die off. The millennials from my town are largely the same as their boomer parents in their politics except for social issues and Gen Z is even more socially liberal. Once the boomers are gone I think we will see rural voters still leaning heavily conservative but being much more socially moderate and force the party to change those planks of its platform.

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

Nissin Cup Nudist posted:

people have been saying wait for the boomers to die for a decade+ now and thats been ineffective

Sure because the past decade was too soon to expect it to happen in enough numbers to make a difference. For example, my dad was born in 1948 and just died earlier this week, but my mom was born in 1952 and based on her older relatives lifespans and her current health she'll probably make it another 10-20 years. The majority of their friends are still alive but the deaths are happening at an increased rate every year. As another poster pointed out we hit a population tipping point in 2022 but if you look at actual turnout among those demographics I would bet boomers still win. In 10 years though we will be looking at a much different situation demographics wise, but there will be several election cycles before the effects can really be seen.

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

Main Paineframe posted:

It's also worth remembering that Trump banned Tiktok near the end of his term too, but it was held up in court long enough for him to be replaced by Biden, who canceled the Tiktok ban and opened some investigations into Tiktok's handling of user data instead.

While we don't know exactly what those investigations found, it was concerning enough that the Biden administration banned Tiktok from all government-owned devices. And while all that was going on, there were public revelations that Tiktok was using its app to spy on specific US citizens, followed by the discovery that Tiktok employees accessed the personal data of the journalists who revealed that, in an attempt to track down the source of the leak. Combine that lackluster approach to user privacy with the fact that Chinese law requires companies to provide user data to the Chinese government on request, and it's not surprising that the US government has been concerned.

On top of that, US security agencies have alleged that the Chinese government is running influence networks on Tiktok and used them to attempt to influence the 2022 elections, which is why you're seeing legislators getting real worked up about the idea that Tiktok might be manipulating the algorithm for political reasons. And Tiktok sending out that alert to its US users telling them to lobby the US government against the Tiktok ban was an enormous own goal.

Because of all this, the Tiktok ban effort is heavily bipartisan and passed the Senate by a wide, veto-proof majority. The only opposition came from the diehard MAGAs, because Trump came out against the Tiktok ban in 2024 after a rich friend with a big financial stake in Tiktok convinced him to, despite the fact that he in fact tried to ban it himself when he was in office.

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Other platforms are regulated in ways that TikTok isn't. That is the entire reason for the Chinese security law that allows them to pull information from Chinese company servers without even asking and why Bytedance has a separate American branch that was a compromise to make it sort of fall under American and European data security laws.

It's less concerns about specific individual American data privacy and more that China has technical access to data on 170 million American phones that could easily be the best spying tool in the world. I don't particularly care about how much trouble it would be for American intelligence agencies to prevent espionage or cyber crime, but it makes sense from their perspective that they wouldn't want to have one of the biggest information capture networks in the world under control of the Chinese government that they could just dip into anytime they wanted.

China has been caught using tech to spy before and entire sectors of the Chinese economy are built on corporate espionage and IP theft, so if you already didn't trust the Chinese government then it makes a lot of sense why you wouldn't want them to have that much potential access or leverage over your country. The average American probably doesn't care that much about it, but that is obviously a big concern to American businesses and people involved in American diplomacy/espionage/global relations.

socialsecurity posted:

Thank you this makes more sense then people saying this was all put together overnight because of the I/P stuff.

In my opinion there are some very good reasons TikTok should be forced to divest from Chinese ownership and I myself am a frequent TikTok user. The point that American social media companies do a lot of the same things and we let them get away with it is a good one but also kind of whataboutism. In my view, China being in control of that sort of stuff, especially in light of both Trump and Biden's push for an economic war with China, is worse than an American company doing the same thing. We should absolutely address both TikTok and the American companies doing it though. As it stands, if Congress got off their rear end and decided to actually take action they would have much more control and effect on American owned social media companies than a Chinese owned one.

I would strongly suggest anybody interested in all of this and some of the deeper reasoning behind it listen to this podcast episode from The Realignment about why America should force TikTok to divest, they make some great points and bring some data about how China is manipulating the algorithm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltI_t7X-6Bo

They also did a followup episode taking the other side and arguing against divestment but I haven't listened to it yet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa63_IA1erU

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

mawarannahr posted:

I do not want to listen to a podcast. Can you link an article or summarize their data regarding Chinese algorithm manipulation techniques? Donghua Jinlong industrial glycine is superior

Here is an article from the same guy that goes over some of the points he makes in the podcast, although at a much higher level:

https://www.realclearpolicy.com/articles/2024/03/18/tiktok_should_be_owned_by_americans_1019028.html

I think the podcast is worth listening to and does a deeper dive into these points and addresses some of the rebuttals to them.

Here is the report out of Rutgers about Chinese manipulation of the algorithm:

https://networkcontagion.us/wp-content/uploads/A-Tik-Tok-ing-Timebomb_12.21.23.pdf

The basic point is that China can and has manipulated the algorithm per the report, a not insignificant portion of Americans use TikTok as their only news source, a larger number of Americans use TikTok regularly. China has the ability to heavily influence that population through manipulation of the algorithm. We don't let the CCP own and control Fox or CNN and for the same reasons TikTok should be divested on top of the data privacy concerns (that admittedly apply to American social media companies as well).

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Just for context, the American algorithm was moved to be co-managed with an American company (Oracle) and is already a distinct product from the global version. So, these instances of the algorithm being manipulated post-2021 are not necessarily the result of China directly. Either that or Oracle isn't paying close enough attention/the divergence wasn't really impactful in a practical sense. I have no clue what the actual impact of that change was, but some of the instances the report cites were from before 2021, so they may not be relevant to the app as it exists right now.

However, they say their new research happened in 2023, so it appears the algorithm may not have changed much when it was changed to being co-managed. It's not really clear what the practical impact of that was, but it isn't 100% clear that the stuff post-2021 was a direct result of Chinese government requests like the pre-2021 stuff was.

There have been several reports as well as former TikTok employees saying the move to Oracle did not materially change the situation and that the CCP still has ultimate control.

Ultimately the people in control of TikTok have to answer to the CCP. If Xi decides he want something done it's going to happen or executives are going to start disappearing like Jack Ma.

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Just for context, the American algorithm was moved to be co-managed with an American company (Oracle) and is already a distinct product from the global version. So, these instances of the algorithm being manipulated post-2021 are not necessarily the result of China directly. Either that or Oracle isn't paying close enough attention/the divergence wasn't really impactful in a practical sense. I have no clue what the actual impact of that change was, but some of the instances the report cites were from before 2021, so they may not be relevant to the app as it exists right now.

However, they say their new research happened in 2023, so it appears the algorithm may not have changed much when it was changed to being co-managed. It's not really clear what the practical impact of that was, but it isn't 100% clear that the stuff post-2021 was a direct result of Chinese government requests like the pre-2021 stuff was.

Addition to my previous reply. Here is one article about how the siloing to Oracle is full of holes:

https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/16/24132315/tiktok-bytedance-project-texas-china-silo

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

So in Baltimore a recording had leaked a while back of a principal making racist and antisemitic remarks. Today it came out that after investigating it turned out to be AI generated by the Athletic Director pissed at the principal because he was getting fired.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/baltimore-high-school-athletic-director-ai-create-fake/story%3fid=109638535

Our elections are about to get crazy. Life in general is going to get wild as people abuse this to do things like this as well as people who legit did whatever they are accused of muddying the waters with an "it was AI" defense.

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

Sundae posted:

As much as I hate to admit it, I can absolutely understand why insurers would try so hard to keep from covering Ozempic / Wegovy / Mounjaro / etc.

Here's a 90-day of my 5mg-dose Mounjaro, as an example. I am fortunate to have good insurance, or I would simply not be able to take the medication.



I know the insurers pay a different rate and all, but with how prevalent the weight-loss equivalents of this medication could become with wider adoption, even paying 1/4 of that rate would be catastrophic to their margins. Not that I give a poo poo about their margins, but I understand why they care.

Yep, at bare minimum it should absolutely cover cases of actual obesity. It's not just a cosmetic thing to get out of the obese range; it's a serious thing and cuts the likelihood of other medical conditions by doing so.

I pay $300/month from a local compounding pharmacy and it's the same stuff with the same effects (I've used name brand as well). There's zero reason they should cost this much other than pharmaceutical greed

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

Kagrenak posted:

Do you get any type of QC report with it? Where do they source the API from, given that all GLP-1 agonists are on patent right now? I'd be really curious to run a sample of what they're giving you on my mass spec but that seems like something my employer wouldn't love. Compounding pharmacies are notoriously sketchy.

My doctor did the due diligence for me, but compounding pharmacies are allowed to order the legitimate agonists from suppliers. That being said you are right there are a lot of shady ones and several have been caught providing counterfeit formulations or even sodium salt versions that aren't legal and come from chemical suppliers. You definitely have to be careful, but my point was the drugs could be MUCH cheaper. I saw an article a month or two ago that Novo Nordisk could still turn a profit at like $10/dose.

Edit: there was a report in the NYT that Norway's (or whatever country Novo is from) entire increase in GDP in 2023 (or maybe 2022) was from Novo Nordisk and without it they would have had 0% growth. The government was passing a bill to strip Novo out of their economic stats so they can have an accurate picture of the economy. These drugs are only getting started and I wouldn't be surprised if it gets to the point 15% or more of the population is on them. There is a stupid amount of money to be made.

D-Pad fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Apr 27, 2024

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

12 years a lurker posted:

Short-termism isn't the problem, the weight loss drugs are far too expensive to get anywhere close to paying for themselves short or long term. Total healthcare expenditures in America are slightly over $1,000 per month per person. That includes everything: private insurance, public, out of pocket. https://www.cms.gov/data-research/statistics-trends-and-reports/national-health-expenditure-data/historical. Compare to the cost of the weight loss drugs which cost about the same and you need to keep taking to keep the weight off.

Once the Semaglutide patent expires and the drug is available generic in 2032, if we don't find any bad side effects between now and then, the insurance industry and employers will flip overnight from fighting these drugs to pushing them. The 2025 problem is access to the drugs; the 2045 problem may be pressure from your employer to take the drugs want it or not if you are overweight.

The latest study showed that almost 60% of users maintained their weight up to a year after quitting the drugs:

https://www.epicresearch.org/articles/many-patients-maintain-weight-loss-a-year-after-stopping-semaglutide-and-liraglutide

Many gained it back or even more but it does seem that a significant portion of people who lost weight on it can stop and keep it off. For myself I had been telling myself I was going to get back in the gym for two decades and I could never make it happen. I lost 60lbs on mounjaro and felt so good about it that I started going to the gym daily for the past 6 months and have made it a real habit. It's weird that I didn't find the motivation until I had lost the weight and it's anecdotal but I've had several other people I know have similar experiences. It tells me what we should really be doing is pairing these drugs with a wider program that involves more than just a weekly shot but is instead part of a comprehensive program addressing exercise habits and other things so that people have the best shot of not needing to be on them for life and keeping the weight off. Basically harnessing the big self esteem/energy boost you get when you lose a ton of weight and channeling it into more long term healthy habits.

As you say prices will eventually come down, and they could easily do so before the generics enter the picture if the companies were a bit less greedy, and when they do a large portion of the population is going to jump on these. With prices down the potential healthcare cost savings could be massive. Recent studies are showing it has a lot of positive effects outside just weight loss and is even looking like it can help people kick addictions.

For my part I recommend anybody who is interested in getting on one of these drugs try it out. It was nothing short of a miracle for me. The weight melted off. I never realized how much food noise I constantly had until it was gone. Even before I had lost any real weight in the first couple weeks I just felt massively better and didn't have the usual energy swings during the day I had before. I experienced zero side effects. It's just massively changed my life for the better in so many ways.

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

What's really interesting to me is that I expect to see a big pushback on these drugs from certain sectors because as more people get on them it could literally effect their bottom line. Walmart put out a report that said their customers who fill prescriptions for these drugs through the Walmart pharmacy end up spending 20% less on average on groceries. If prices drop and we see 20% of the population on them that's going to have real negative effects on sales junk food, groceries, etc. I expect to see hit pieces popping up and I've already seen some articles that are wildly over-negative and scary. I certainly can't prove it but it wouldn't surprise me if that's coming from the people on the wrong end of this.

The whole thing is just fascinating to me because it has so many implications and downstream effects. Also just my own personal experience on it was eye opening. Obesity and diabetes is so widespread in our modern world a miracle drug coming along with no major side effects that wipes it out is insane.

D-Pad fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Apr 27, 2024

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

Discendo Vox posted:

I don't believe you're correct on the consumptive practices impact. Do you have the source you're relying on for that? The Walmart statement I've seen is at root one sentence "we're seeing less units, slightly fewer calories" from the CEO in a bloomberg interview.

I cannot find the original article that pegged the decrease at 20% but I swear I read that. All the articles I'm finding mention it being less but don't put any numbers on it:

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/consumer/ozempic-drug-users-are-buying-less-food-walmart-says-rcna119000

Here's a separate from Walmart survey with respondents saying they spent 9% less on groceries when on Ozempic:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-02-16/ozempic-users-cut-grocery-spending-by-up-to-9-survey-finds

This article goes into what sectors will be winners and losers:

https://markets.businessinsider.com..._source=markets

quote:

Morgan Stanley surveyed 300 patients taking GLP-1 drugs and found that calorie intake dropped 20%-30% on a daily basis. Participants said they cut back the most on foods high in sugar and fat, as well as sugary drinks.

In fact, 77% said they visited fast-food restaurants less frequently, and 74% said they visited pizza restaurants less. That could be bad news for companies including but not limited to Domino's Pizza, Krispy Kreme, and KFC-parent Yum Brands.

If caloric intake drops 20%-30% I would expect to see a similar, if not quite as big, drop in amount of groceries purchased.

D-Pad fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Apr 27, 2024

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

PhazonLink posted:

what if walmart made ads for other consumables or life styles to make up for this market shift? I thought the freemarket was suppose to be agile, nimble, [insert another synonym for these type of words here]. sounds like this is them being lazy parasitic lazy slothes that just want to play the same metagame forever.

Funny enough after the original report came out and their stock price took a hit they came back out and said actually ozempic users spending increased overall because spending in health and fitness related products increased enough to offset the loss in grocery spending

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/walmart-customers-ozempic-spend-more-morgan-stanley-2023-10%3famp

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

Civilized Fishbot posted:

One effect of Ozempic is that it actually reduces food cravings.

Edit: beaten. I didn't know that was the WHOLE way it worked though, I thought it also accelerated the metabolism. Good to learn

It also slows gut motility so your stomach empties out slower and you stay full for longer. As others have pointed out it can help with addiction as well so it seems to be acting on the brains craving/desire system as a whole and not just specifically appetite. It also has a great effect on your blood glucose which is why it's originally a diabetic drug although I'm not sure if that is separate from or as a result of the other effects.

Like I said upthread, I had absolutely zero side effects. I know quite a few people on it and some do get nausea but that's about it. I think something like 10-15% of people are non-responders and it doesn't do much for them. It's always possible there are some side effects from staying on it for a very long time, but the first drug in this class of drugs came out in the early aughts and nothing has popped up so far. They are currently in development and trials for a daily pill form and there are also several new variants that are showing an even greater weight loss effect than the current ones.

It's hard to understand how revolutionary it is, especially in light of how bad almost all previous weight loss drugs were. I feel like all my life they've been promising a revolution in medicine but it seems to have finally arrived with all the new stuff coming out like gene therapies and other crazy cool stuff.

Edit: these drugs are peptides and there are quite a few other peptides that are showing some really impressive promise. BPC-157 is a really interesting one that has almost zero side effects in studies so far and greatly accelerates healing of many types of injuries as well as reducing inflammation and some other stuff. It does so well at increasing your bodies ability to recover that it's banned in professional sports although it really shouldn't be because it helps healing so much and doesn't really have negative side effects like so many PEs.

D-Pad fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Apr 28, 2024

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

lobster shirt posted:

so texas is in kind of a weird spot with weed, they did some ag bill in 2019 that legalized hemp below a certain thc percentage. they later outlawed smoking hemp altogether but there are dispensaries everywhere and you can buy all kinds of gummies and edibles. delta 8 is also legal here.

Beaten but yeah the hilarious loophole is THCa which literally turns to THC when you burn it. Austin has actual vending machines that sell it and don't even require you to scan an ID. It's basically the wild west in Texas right now as God intended. :clint:

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

Everyone of my parents hyper conservative rural boomer friends take a gummie at night before bed. It's wild.

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

Boris Galerkin posted:

Yeah and THCa weed is like legit actual real weed. I don't live in CA but from what I hear these days even in a fully legal place like CA the weed you're buying at dispensaries are high in THCa and less so THC.

E: I just googled "thca provo" cause it's the only city I could remember in Utah and I'm assuming weed is super illegal in Utah but there are shops selling THCa weed there.

Probably because earlier in the grow cycle plants are high in THCa and low in THC and the THCa slowly changes to THC as it matures. I would imagine the growers are harvesting early so they can get more yield per year knowing that it doesn't matter all that much since everybody is going to smoke it and it'll turn into THC anyway, at least with their plants destined to stay flower and not be turned into edibles.

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D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

Yeah I don't see how that Trump/Oil thing isn't illegal quid pro quo. Isn't soliciting donations for your super pac explicitly for executive actions while in office a no no? I don't see that would be that hard to prove when you have multiple people confirming to wapo that it happened? What am I missing?

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