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Refused posted:Finally finished this and I loved 95% of it. It's an expansive, legit 100 hour RPG in a way Final Fantasy hasn't been in a long rear end time. Best FF since the PS2 generation at least, great battle system, sense of humor, visually amazing, all that stuff. But the ending just left me kind of cold. Pretty much all of Remake and Rebirth were leading up to this question of defying fate and what would happen with Aerith at the Forgotten Capital, and when it came time to answer the question it was presented in this weird obscurative way that denies any emotional impact in the moment because you don't really know what the gently caress is going on. After the credits roll I think it seems clear she died (minus any multiverse bullshit) and Cloud is just too broke brained to accept it. Which, ok, but having to reason backwards and puzzle it out renders it kind of inert. Making it all about Cloud and his (mis)perception of things also takes away from Aerith going knowingly to her death and sacrificing herself for her friends and the planet and all that. Maybe they'll pay all of this off in Mideel in four years, who knows. Same. I just finished last night and that's also how I felt. I was actually dreading getting up to that part because I expected to cry like a big baby but that whole time I was just like ???? until the very end and it hits when they play that song Aerith sang. Rest of the game was really a great experience minus some parts that are pretty bad. Really not going to try and get high scores on chocobo flying, for example.
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Mar 28, 2024 22:25
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Augus posted:I imagine the Cloud/Tifa stuff is probably gonna reach a boiling point at the first north crater visit. It's pretty much almost guaranteed to be a reprisal of Mideel from the OG. There's a lot the modern remake trilogy has yet to address, like Mideel, Wutai, Rocket Town, the snowy northern region, the hunt for the giant materia, weapons actively getting involved on the surface, a whole lot basically. Lots of new locations. Part 3 is gonna be pretty big, way beyond 'more quests on the existing world map' imo.
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Mar 28, 2024 23:01
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Augus posted:my one real disappointment with this game is that the actual manor part of shinra manor is completely blocked off. Yeah this was a bummer I get it's very Resident Evil to have a big evil science lab under the creepy manor, but the best part of any Resident Evil is always the creepy manor, not the evil science lab. Give me more creepy manor!
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Mar 28, 2024 23:24
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Cait's first appearance was even at a Haunted Manor! He's a perfect fit for a haunted manor dungeon!!
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Mar 28, 2024 23:26
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:It's pretty much almost guaranteed to be a reprisal of Mideel from the OG. Also we get the highwind to fly around in.
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Mar 29, 2024 00:52
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Just beat it. Pretty good. Glad I managed to remain pretty unspoiled for most of it. I have been awake for like two days now, btw, so maybe this is sleep deprivation talking. Anyway, I have a question. Haven't read the thread yet, sorry, but I wanted to be raw and apparently this is the thread where I don't have to add spoiler poo poo. Did anyone else interpret Cloud's actions during Aerith's death scene to be the creation of another world? Sephiroth tells him earlier, "When the boundaries of fate are breached, new worlds are born." I interpreted her death scene as a new reality being created. Like, Cloud, whether through sheer force of will or the Lifeforce (his sword DOES glow green), managed to defy/breach fate by saving Aerith, and created another world where she lives in the process? I mean, she thanks him for what he did in the last boss fight.
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Mar 29, 2024 01:07
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Rhonne posted:Also we get the highwind to fly around in. A submarine too!
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Mar 29, 2024 01:11
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Turdfuzz posted:Anyway, I have a question. Haven't read the thread yet, sorry, but I wanted to be raw and apparently this is the thread where I don't have to add spoiler poo poo. This is a pretty common theory going around yeah. You will generally find theories boiling down into two camps: "Aerith is alive somewhere" and "No she's not"
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Mar 29, 2024 01:32
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Rhonne posted:Also we get the highwind to fly around in. I’m wondering how they’re gonna do the world map if we do get to zip around in the Highwind. The playable map in Rebirth really does not line up with the World Map as displayed in-game. There’s a lot of abstraction and shortcuts and shrinkage going on to make it a seamless experience, so it’ll be interesting to see what they do here.
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Mar 29, 2024 01:41
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IcePhoenix posted:This is a pretty common theory going around yeah. You will generally find theories boiling down into two camps: "Aerith is alive somewhere" and "No she's not" thanks i appreciate you
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Mar 29, 2024 02:10
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HD DAD posted:I’m wondering how they’re gonna do the world map if we do get to zip around in the Highwind. The playable map in Rebirth really does not line up with the World Map as displayed in-game. There’s a lot of abstraction and shortcuts and shrinkage going on to make it a seamless experience, so it’ll be interesting to see what they do here. Probably a Highwind-only overworld like in the PSX version.
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Mar 29, 2024 02:23
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Or, hell, just have a new region "Skies" like we have the ocean where everything is clearly just off scale. Very true to the original, that.
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Mar 29, 2024 03:05
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Harrow posted:I don't at all buy the "Jenova impersonating Aerith" theory. Why would she look so sad when she turns away from Cloud if he can't even see her face? Why would she say a sad goodbye to the departing plane with nobody there to hear her if she was just Jenova impersonating Aerith to manipulate Cloud? Oh I don't personally believe it. I do think it's a fun theory though.
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Mar 29, 2024 05:10
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Onmi posted:Oh I don't personally believe it. I do think it's a fun theory though. Fun theories, eh /dusts off R=U
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Mar 29, 2024 10:10
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Squall died at the parade
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Mar 29, 2024 10:21
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How the gently caress am I going to live without my black mage in part 3 
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Mar 29, 2024 12:24
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there's also an on-going documentary series on the square enix channel for those who haven't seen it btw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1ZYUQ1_jmQ playlist link for the full thing (so far): https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2A8F9VO2BGPIBlPKz4jBs8r5SX7NJNai there's no japanese episode four focused on the voice actors so far on the jp channel. hopefully it'll be available with translations i find it hilarious how nomura is shot and framed compared to everyone else in it, but i won't spoil it for you
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Mar 29, 2024 15:12
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Thinking it over, I get why they changed it but OG Nibelheim filled with paid actors is far superior to the mako poisoning treatment facility. I wish they had stuck with that idea at least a little, it's so fun and spooky. It's one of the only major gripes I have with this game's story.
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Mar 29, 2024 15:14
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I felt the same way. I think they decided not to do it in the end because you can't really get away with doing paid actors unless the village was completely cut off from the world in which case you wouldn't need actors anyway. The illusion wouldn't even last a day. Imagine if friends and family of the village from elsewhere in the world decided to visit by. It becoming a "mako poisoning treatment village" after Shinra telling the world that it burned down because of said mako poisoning gave them cover and was the least bad option, that's how I saw it. Plus it was a way for Shinra to control and keep an eye on all the black robes easily. If one fell off a cliff or got kidnapped, no problem, we can pick up another one from the clinic. It's macabre and very Shinra
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Mar 29, 2024 15:22
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On the other hand, if they weren't going to do the paid actors thing, then why rebuild the town exactly like it was before instead of something more suited for a treatment facility?
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Mar 29, 2024 15:25
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It's a good question, perhaps they wanted to downplay the severity of what happened Also I might be misremembering this but did anyone else notice the halls in temple of the ancients were called 'remake' 'rebirth' and then 'resurrection' So maybe the third part won't be 'reunion' after all like a lot of people were assuming, but 'resurrection'?
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Mar 29, 2024 15:28
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it's also crazy how rude everyone in the town is to you when you talk to them, even the merchants
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Mar 29, 2024 15:37
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:It's a good question, perhaps they wanted to downplay the severity of what happened Finally, I'll be able to use 4 tissues to get my revive materia to level 4 and bring her back, just as the ancient texts revealed!
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Mar 29, 2024 15:38
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Unfortunately I think you might be misremembering. The last hall is the Hall of Resurrection but there's no "remake" or "rebirth" I don't think, unless the maps I'm finding are wrong.kliras posted:it's also crazy how rude everyone in the town is to you when you talk to them, even the merchants Everyone except the singing cook lady with the cats, she's all right
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Mar 29, 2024 15:41
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You think Cloud's sword will get any cool powers from sticking the Black Materia into it?
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Mar 29, 2024 18:00
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Rhonne posted:You think Cloud's sword will get any cool powers from sticking the Black Materia into it? 
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Mar 29, 2024 18:07
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Rhonne posted:You think Cloud's sword will get any cool powers from sticking the Black Materia into it? He can cast Meteor but he doesn't have enough MP to and won't until he manages to recover his memories.
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Mar 29, 2024 18:14
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kliras posted:it's also crazy how rude everyone in the town is to you when you talk to them, even the merchants I feel like that's what makes the creepiness of the "clinic" approach work. The people in town are unfriendly. They're unfriendly because they know they're doing something hosed-up, even if they don't know exactly what it is. They've probably been nervous for the entire time they've been there that someday somebody is going to show up and say "What the gently caress? Why are you living in my family's house? What's wrong with you?" and they don't really have an answer to that other than "Shinra said it was okay and they took care of everything and not to think about it." This is on top of the fact that that it doesn't take much thinking to realize that the goal of the clinic is absolutely not to help the patients in any way. The ringers in Nibelheim really, really want you to go away because you being there forces them to confront the fact that they're being paid to put a nice face on an atrocity. (Actually, multiple unrelated atrocties.)
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Mar 29, 2024 19:16
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I assume rebuilding Nibelheim as it was allowed Shinra to maintain an easy official story. There was an incident at the Nibelheim reactor and monsters were increasingly attacking the town. In a fierce attack where many lost their lives, including the brave SOLDIERs and grunts, the monsters were finally beaten back, and Shinra stepped in to administer the town directly and help it recover. The 'lie' is minimal, only the source of the deaths - Sephiroth rather than the fiends - changes. and Shina salvages the best out of a bad situation.
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Mar 30, 2024 06:19
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I need to ask, I've been forgetting to but whats the green energy whirl above fights. For the longest time I thought it was Aerith casting a spell or something from the sidelines as people out of the party do attack and whatnot, but it kept happening even with her in the party. I thought maybe it was a lighting thing that was just... extra?? I guess?? But it shows up in well lit fights everywhere. It bugs me so much that none of my friends know what the deal with it is either Also for the record this game has the most miserable trolls I've ever seen. Most people seem to react on stream pretty drat positive but there's always 2-3 people in chat screaming NO YOU CANT LIKE IT HOW DARE YOU and just *screaming*. Calebhart popped up on my youtube feed, as a example, and you can see him go 'this is awesome' and he has twitch chat displayed and it's just a handful of losers screaming at him for enjoying it ThisIsACoolGuy fucked around with this message at 07:56 on Mar 30, 2024 |
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Mar 30, 2024 07:54
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:I need to ask, I've been forgetting to but whats the green energy whirl above fights. The green swirl is lifestream emitting when a fiend dissolves.
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Mar 30, 2024 08:25
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McTimmy posted:The green swirl is lifestream emitting when a fiend dissolves. I've seen it before anything dies or at the very start of fights lingering around just floating overhead. I know they sparkle green and despawn/vanish but the big glowy orb is just kinda there
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Mar 30, 2024 08:29
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:I've seen it before anything dies or at the very start of fights lingering around just floating overhead. I know they sparkle green and despawn/vanish but the big glowy orb is just kinda there Oh the orb. Whoops, must have misread. Yeah, I have no idea what the orb is either.
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Mar 30, 2024 09:00
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My money is on "there is weird time/space fuckery going on and Cloud saved Aerith in one timeline but it's overlapping with a version where she died, leading to dimensional fuckery." I do not think we're seeing a third game without a playable Aerith, though; she's clearly still an active presence and not just a hallucination, even if she's also a lifestream ghost or liminal being. Red reacts to her, even if he doesn't seem to realize it's her. I saw the observation that both Cloud and Tifa, people who have touched the Lifestream, seem to see both Aerith dead and Aerith alive in that moment when Sephiroth stabs her, and notably Tifa lingers longest by the pool where we can assume they laid her body to rest and looks the most uncomfortable and disturbed by what's going on. Trying to reconcile conflicting memories? Doubting her own sanity? Unclear. That said, I think we didn't see the burial because not only was Cloud possibly not present for it per se in this version of events, but also because it'll be the big reveal that starts the breakdown in the third game, when the rest of the party challenges him on not realizing/acknowledging that Aerith is extremely dead and buried. EDIT: Also, I think the implications of the doomed timeline is that Zack (and Aerith and Cloud when you have your date) is experiencing every one of his deaths. There's not multiple Zacks, there's one Zack who keeps getting cycled through different possibilities that keep ending in his death. But like Aerith for example is wearing all three colors of jewelry bangles from Cloud's "date" with her, indicating she's done this multiple times, I think? Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 09:38 on Mar 30, 2024 |
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Mar 30, 2024 09:01
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:I've seen it before anything dies or at the very start of fights lingering around just floating overhead. I know they sparkle green and despawn/vanish but the big glowy orb is just kinda there It's the energy gathering for your summon meter.
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Mar 30, 2024 09:18
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I definitely think Cloud saved Aerith in one of the realities, but it's not this one. I think she's doing the same holy schtick and it's just nice that Cloud can still see her and that she was able to manifest for a bit as a ghost or whatever. I really hope they find a way to make her still playable*, I love the implementation of a powerful wizard in these games. She's so loving strong and flitting between two or three points on a map while poo poo can't touch you, throwing out hellish spam and double spells is just primo wizard feel and not many games get it right. * Not in main party, she's dead and doing a multiverse/time bullshit would be lame. If she links up with Zach in the life stream or something that would be nice. Also have them get married at the end and make it like the close of FF15.
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Mar 30, 2024 09:37
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JBP posted:I definitely think Cloud saved Aerith in one of the realities, but it's not this one. I think she's doing the same holy schtick and it's just nice that Cloud can still see her and that she was able to manifest for a bit as a ghost or whatever. The game does explicitly have Zack observing that timelines can touch again, so I strongly suspect we're going to see Zack and Aerith (and Zack has his own movelist, that's a lot of development for one fight) again whenever the timestreams sync up again, allowing them to jump worldlines. But I think she's dead in the world Cloud is currently in, which judging by the sky he sees is not the "correct" one for him. The question is how, because he did, explicitly in what we see, stop that blow, and it's not depicted just as him hallucinating, Sephiroth responds to it - so did he get shunted over/reverse uno'd to one where she died? I think it is quite likely that she'll still be a playable character in the third game. I am quite possibly wrong, but I think there's a fair bit of evidence. Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 09:43 on Mar 30, 2024 |
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Mar 30, 2024 09:40
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Cloud going full Sliders in the next one could be fun lol
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Mar 30, 2024 09:42
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My interpretation of the ending lends towards something more intertextual. The FF7 remake was essentially a game they were bullied into making. It was a very strange kind of sensation, since they likely never quite understood where the impulse came from and probably thought the original was always fine as-is. They never had to deal with the rough mouthfeel of the original English translation, which always promoted this sense of "a good first draft; now go and do it again." The market pressure to "remake" this thing seemed strange, so a lot of the themes of the first remake game relates to getting all ponderous about it. Meanwhile, the key line in Rebirth is when Cloud talks about his illness. "I feel like there's three different people inside of me, and I can't tell where I begin and they end." That applies to FF7 as a whole. By branching out even in the small ways that they have done so far, they've blown to bits what FF7 even is, or is not. Where does the "real" FF7 begin or end? By the end of the game, not even the characters themselves can agree on what did or did not happen. What I don't know is how they intend to write themselves out of this jam. A lack of consensus reality is a difficult problem to solve. I know they have something in mind, because they're still using the same child actors for Marlene, Young Aerith, and such. Since those actors can only really be child actors for so long, and modern gamedev goes on for much longer than that, anything recorded with them had to have been done all-at-once. So the broad strokes of what is going to happen was written out a long time ago in the very least; just a question of if they'll stick the landing.
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Mar 30, 2024 09:54
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Jetrauben posted:I saw the observation that both Cloud and Tifa, people who have touched the Lifestream, seem to see both Aerith dead and Aerith alive in that moment when Sephiroth stabs her, and notably Tifa lingers longest by the pool where we can assume they laid her body to rest and looks the most uncomfortable and disturbed by what's going on. Trying to reconcile conflicting memories? Doubting her own sanity?. This is a very Tifa thing to do regardless of anything tbf.
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Mar 30, 2024 12:14
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