|
I feel like Dyne maybe goes more psycho than in the OG?
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 00:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 6, 2024 03:51 |
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:I feel like Dyne maybe goes more psycho than in the OG? I wonder if this is just him being fully voiced and having an expressive face? I'd actually forgotten about the Dyne plot and had a massive sad face when I arrived at Corel and it came flooding back.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 00:14
|
|
|
Harrow posted:It's important to keep scale in mind here, too. VII Rebirth likely isn't meeting expectations sales-wise, but it's also handily outselling every other JRPG released around the same time, like Persona 3 Reload and Like a Dragon: Infinite Wealth. These are all excellent games, of course, but it's worth noting that "poor sales" for a major Final Fantasy game is still a pretty high number by JRPG standards. We're not talking about a flop. I've always wondered about the plethora of sequels and spinoffs ever since X-2 and if that diluted the brand any? Everything else you mentioned is also a contributing factor but X-2 was such a big game changer back in the day because of its sequel sttatus, and then Square has just continued that trend with sequels big and small, to say nothing of remakes now. If you hear about the new Final Fantasy game, that used to mean the new Final Fantasy game. Not now and not for 22 years and certainly never again. JBP posted:I wonder if this is just him being fully voiced and having an expressive face? I'd actually forgotten about the Dyne plot and had a massive sad face when I arrived at Corel and it came flooding back. Yeah, in the original Dyne and Barret fight because Dyne has a speech about how he wants to kill everyone, settling on Marlene, talking about how his dead wife is lonely so he has to kill Marlene and they can both go to his wife. He pretty nuts. Death was a mercy for him.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 00:28
|
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:I feel like Dyne maybe goes more psycho than in the OG? No, Dyne in the OG, when being told Marlene is alive, instantly responds with "I'm going to kill her so she can go to be with her mother." The dude was absolutely batshit. If anything he's a little less batshit in this one because he doesn't lead with "My daughter is alive? I must free her from the burden of being alive!!"
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 00:28
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:No, Dyne in the OG, when being told Marlene is alive, instantly responds with "I'm going to kill her so she can go to be with her mother." The dude was absolutely batshit. If anything he's a little less batshit in this one because he doesn't lead with "My daughter is alive? I must free her from the burden of being alive!!" He's crazier in the original, but also more lucid (or at least, I thought so). He's in charge of the prison by way of being too dangerous for anyone else to risk challenging, he knows Barret and why he's there. He chooses to die by his own hand because he knows the other option is him and Barret keep fighting because he can't abandon his quest....but his quest is monstrous. It was a highlight of the og for me, and one of two disappointments in Rebirth. The other is Shinra mansion. Just give me the upper floor, I cannot understand that choice.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 01:57
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:No, Dyne in the OG, when being told Marlene is alive, instantly responds with "I'm going to kill her so she can go to be with her mother." The dude was absolutely batshit. If anything he's a little less batshit in this one because he doesn't lead with "My daughter is alive? I must free her from the burden of being alive!!" I meant the whole bit with him being chained to a chair but somehow imagining he was living an idylic life with his wife and Barret was just coming over for dinner
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 01:58
|
|
|
Remake Dyne trades out the all directions blood lust for sheer contempt for Barret but even then he pushes still him down and takes a few dozens bullets for him. Although might have been because he wanted Barret to live with that. Dunno, weird guy. Magneto guy.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 02:00
|
|
|
Like, he's certainly less 'vilainous crazy guy' now but also he is disassociating constantly and doesn't really seem fully aware of things except when his feelings about his family or his rage at Shinra manage to push through his delusions.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 02:02
|
|
|
Honestly I felt Dyne was really well done in Rebirth, particularly the painful note that he simultaneously desperately wants to die, wants to save Barret, and refuses to let him have closure when he dies. That scene was rough, and really effective, because in the original Dyne more or less marked the end of Barret's arc being of great significance, but in the Remake trilogy, as with many other characters (most notably Nanaki by adding his new goal to save the Gi without omnicide), his chapter spurs him on but does not resolve his issues.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 02:35
|
|
|
Jetrauben posted:Honestly I felt Dyne was really well done in Rebirth, particularly the painful note that he simultaneously desperately wants to die, wants to save Barret, and refuses to let him have closure when he dies. That scene was rough, and really effective, because in the original Dyne more or less marked the end of Barret's arc being of great significance, but in the Remake trilogy, as with many other characters (most notably Nanaki by adding his new goal to save the Gi without omnicide), his chapter spurs him on but does not resolve his issues. That is something people criticize about certain older JRPGs. Even if characters have arcs, they tend to wrap up at a designated town or spot in the story and after that they just kinda linger. My beloved Xenogears is guilty of this with characters like Billy, Marie, or Bart. Then you get your Rico's or Freya from FFIX where their arc just gets gutted and never really resolved. I've always felt like the presence of voice-acting helps a lot. It allows for incidental dialogue to keep everyone feeling involved. (Assuming the game cares enough to try and keep them involved like FFX. FFXII emphatically did not)
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 02:56
|
|
|
Third game should let us go back and get Dyne's gun for Barret and it can be his ultimate weapon.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 03:56
|
|
|
I actually thought we already pick it up after we beat him. Did I imagine that?
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 04:32
|
|
|
Jezza of OZPOS posted:I actually thought we already pick it up after we beat him. Did I imagine that? Go back to the arena and you'll find it lodged in his grave.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 04:34
|
|
|
Arkage posted:Also if I recall, they didn’t do the big music queue with Seph saying he’s going to go see mother in the basement. Fail. Yeah, that one bugged me a lot too. It was such a memorable moment in the original.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 05:43
|
|
|
I finished it late yesterday, and a combination of both the long boss gauntlet (WHY can you not change materia my god, Aerith had auto cast time on and kept blowing all her ATB on failed stops on him, meaning I never had the ATB I need at the right time which is crucial for that fight mechanics, especially to stop the one shot kill checks) and the confusing emotional ending overwhelmed me a bit, so took the night to parse. I feel somewhat empty now that game is finishes, which goes to show what a good game it ism but I don't feel quite as excited about part 3 as I did about part 2 when I finished remake, because I think most of the iconic stuff is done now, and the unanswered bits are a bit too confusing to follow. There were multiple times where I thought "This is how it felt watching those last seasons of Lost; I want to push forward and see what happens, but I'm not catching the meaning of stuff as it does". That said, there were some definite bits that I couldn't find addressed that confused on my first play through. Why do some of the white whispers fight you before Cloud enters the temple to save Aerith. If I recall, that's the only time they're hostile to you and not just fighting the Sephiroth whispers? What's Biggs point in the story? It was leading up to a theme of defining what the point of a life is, and then just sort of drops it by killing him out of nowhere... I'm assuming he'll, like Aerith, play some part in the altered ending of Part 2. Why does Red XIII sense Aerith (Ghost/Alternative Timeline Alive/Jenova whoever the last scene Aeirth is), and is it a coincidence that he was the only other party member given precognition by the whispers in the first game?
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 08:41
|
|
|
The white whispers aren't on your side, they are on original-continuity side, so that means Aerith has to die. It's why Barret dies in Remake but is immediately revived, and why Wedge is pushed off Shinra HQ after surviving the fall of sector 7.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 08:44
|
|
|
Don't think thise were white whispers in Remake.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 08:45
|
|
|
I think they were still neutral arbiters of fate, but in rebirth they are white to help distinguish from Sephiroth's whispers
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 08:47
|
|
|
Would be a weird move to make the ghosts that look more significantly different from the Remake whispers into the ones that are actually the same sort of Arbiters of Fate. But also I don't really buy it just because they have the gang directly comment on the ghosts in Chapter 14 and how they don't seem to be fighting for Fate. They call out the black whispers as under Seph's control but for the white whispers they just go "Man, don't know what the deal is with these guys tho". E: They also show up with Aerith for the final boss, and I dunno that don't sound like the workings of Fate to me. SyntheticPolygon fucked around with this message at 09:01 on Apr 16, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 08:58
|
|
|
Zedsdeadbaby posted:I think they were still neutral arbiters of fate, but in rebirth they are white to help distinguish from Sephiroth's whispers I don't think so - they literally use abilities based on Aerith's abilities. They're Greater Aerith's minions, I think.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 09:04
|
|
|
In which case though, why are they trying to stop cloud saving this timelines Aerith, or whatever timeline we end up because who really knows now? They have their own moveset, so it's definitely intentional.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 09:17
|
|
|
I disagree with earlier posts about not needing to play the first FF7 before the remake. I just don't think Aerith being alive at the end of part 3 will hit as hard if you don't get to experience losing her for real in the original.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 09:59
|
|
|
I hope they never remake X, because I dont think i'd be able to cope with the ending with voice acting and motion capture the same level as the 7 remake trilogy. Or the vivi letter in 9.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 10:16
|
|
|
You got a problem with 'HA~HA~HA~' ?
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 10:46
|
|
|
I should get around to finishing X someday but it doesn't really hit for me the way it might have back in the PS2 era. Everytime I try I sort of bounce off
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 11:08
|
|
|
I think FFX's ending hits pretty hard as is. Also I wonder if people would actually care this time if Square tried to just dump all the English VAs associated with one of their most beloved titles. You'd hope so. But really I just don't want it remade because it be an ARPG. Even ARPG fans seem to understand my feelings on this one since FFX is a massively beloved game for many reasons, its battle system being one of them. Its turn-based gameplay is praised quite as much as its characters, story, soundtrack, and all the other non-minigame things it did exceptionally well. But hey, FFIX is next on the horizon. They can do whatever the gently caress they want with that. Exactly no one will miss its gameplay or voice-acting(from Dissidia or whatever).
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 11:28
|
|
|
As much as i would want an FFIX remake. I think a game like FF8 would need it more. If they treat it as well as they are doing the ff7 remake trilogy. It has a lot of potential for stuff to be expanded on and come across better in a remake.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 11:31
|
|
|
Oh, FFX ending definitely hits hard enough. I'm not even joking that with upgrading graphics and a swelling orchestral to Zanarkand, it'd be like an emotional nuke going off. 13, 15, X, 7... regardless of the variable quality, ff gut punches you in a way that no other game series does. If they do remake one, they need to do one that at has a happier ending. 8 or 12 I could cope with maybe. Jezza of OZPOS posted:I should get around to finishing X someday but it doesn't really hit for me the way it might have back in the PS2 era. Everytime I try I sort of bounce off Also, as a leit motif I think Aerith's theme is comparable to the force theme in its emotional heft now. You could play it over a video of a dog playing with a ball and make me tear up.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 11:35
|
|
|
Sefal posted:As much as i would want an FFIX remake. I think a game like FF8 would need it more. If they treat it as well as they are doing the ff7 remake trilogy. It has a lot of potential for stuff to be expanded on and come across better in a remake. I think the same way too. I feel that IX leans into the PS1 aesthetic deliberately, compared to the way that VIII tried to overcome the limitations of the hardware.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 11:36
|
|
|
Yeah the remaster of 8 had a big issue where even though they upscaled the foregrounds for HD and it looks good on its own it still had fuzzy backgrounds that felt weird
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 11:50
|
|
|
As I'm crawling across the finish line of Rebirth (I've found the back quarter of the game post Chapter 10, or so, to be kind of a drag), I think my overall feeling on the trilogy they're making is...I think I've come back around full circle, and I'm just not sure the stuff they've added to the overarching game design and narrative is better than or really additive to the original game. The longer I went, the more I just felt like skipping past the alternate world Zack and Biggs stuff because it's just kind of meandering and fundamentally uninteresting. Really, pretty much any of the multiverse stuff just feels kind of half-baked and overly obtuse - kind of like they’re only half-in on it and hedging their bets by not going TOO far toward remixing the story. Maybe they'll land the plane in another 3-4 years with the finale, but it just doesn't really feel like they're doing enough to tie everything together here at the mid-point of the arc. If they were going to do it and make it work, they should have jumped in whole-hog. What has been great, however, is the additional detail they've layered on to the original framework of FF7 (expanded opportunities to develop some of the under-used party members, filling in some side content and world-building). I think my perspective on the story is a little colored by my overall feeling on the game(s) themselves. I don't really love the new battle system. I get that lots of folks do, and that's good...but I kind of feel like the shift toward a more ARPG focus actively undermines lots of stuff that I love about the original game (much more strategic gameplay IMO in the ATB system, other systems like materia and equipment fundamentally feel like they mesh together better in the original game, and I feel like magic and summons were more integral and impactful in the original battle systems). For all of the lushness that they've added to the environments (which I love - the one thing I love unreservedly about Remake and Rebirth is the way that the world has been made manifest in the new engine), they ultimately feel less rewarding to explore. Some of that, I think, comes down to stuff like weapons and armor largely being relegated to main-path chests and shops, and most of the interesting materia being shunted into Chadley's combat challenges/menus. Ultimately, it feels like I'm spending too much time engaging with the world through an endless series of menus and mini-games. All to say, I'm also kind of left a bit less excited about the finale to the trilogy and - at the end of the day - I kind of wish they'd just done a more focused remake of the original game. Ultimately, the team should and did make what they want to make...I just think I'm realizing that I like the "expanded" vision less and less as they continue to build on it. VanillaGorilla fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Apr 16, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 14:13
|
|
|
Cavelcade posted:The other is Shinra mansion. Just give me the upper floor, I cannot understand that choice. Yea them shrinking down the mansion for a mediocre dungeon was a bad move. I was highly anticipating fighting the ceiling swingers in the OG but there was nobody.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 16:01
|
|
|
What if they're saving the mansion for the Vincent interquel?
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 18:24
|
|
|
I assume they made the change because the mansion higher area is inherently going to be very small and confined which isn't really a good fit for the combat system. By changing it to focus on the lab below they were able to actually make more spread-out areas
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 18:29
|
|
|
A thing that struck me when I'm thinking about it is how much more the Remake trilogy has Cloud and co meaningfully making friends and allies. Almost every character in the original game who's not part of the core cast is extremely forgettable - to the point that the Turks end up being the closest thing to buddies the cast has, despite being, you know, complicit in the destruction of Sector 7. By contrast, the Remake trilogy has Cloud making a lot of friends, and those friends just keep coming back. The Wall Market Trio are almost framed as mentors, for example, and even Dio actually shows himself to be a genuine bro (even if he's just Gaia's version of Godbert Manderville). It's nice. It helps reinforce the idea that the world's actually worth fighting for instead of that vaguely misanthropic 90s "maybe humanity is the virus" undertone.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 19:32
|
|
|
I think it is because you end up spending at least some time in each town, where most towns in the original were like a place you briefly stopped into. As memorable as Costa Del Sol is in terms of presentation not a lot happens there besides getting off the boat and meeting Hojo.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 19:38
|
|
|
VanillaGorilla posted:..but I kind of feel like the shift toward a more ARPG focus actively undermines lots of stuff that I love about the original game (much more strategic gameplay IMO in the ATB system, other systems like materia and equipment fundamentally feel like they mesh together better in the original game, and I feel like magic and summons were more integral and impactful in the original battle systems). This is entirely your nostalgia and not reality as you get way more mileage out of your materia snd also actually need to engage with setups to counter enemies on Hard Mode way more then in the original
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 19:41
|
|
|
yeah I overlooked that part, calling the original’s gameplay “strategic” is insane outside of tinkering with auto-win setups for the WEAPONs
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 19:46
|
|
|
at least on dynamic difficulty I thought Rebirth demanded way more decision-making than the original FF7
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 19:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 6, 2024 03:51 |
|
|
Oh yeah even on Dynamic rebirth will put up way more of a fight then the original
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2024 19:56
|
|