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 Main Thread https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4053680 Here be your thread to discuss all the spoilers. Red XIII is a robot? Cait Sith is secretly Sephiroth? Cid dies? It's all here and waiting for you! Don't be a dick to people in the main thread!
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Feb 20, 2024 17:14
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I will genuinely say that it will probably be a better experience if you don't see everything beforehand but YMMV.
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Feb 20, 2024 18:10
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Edit: Eh, dumb thing to say in the spoiler thread.
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Feb 20, 2024 18:29
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HD DAD posted:The Reddit leak thread got nuked, apparently due in part to a summary of the ending getting posted. Lol lmao. If anyone saw it, it was supposedly the version that popped up on Discord last night with (PURPORTED ENDING AND FINAL BOSS SPOILERS) Aerith dying, Cloud maybe suffering a mental break, Zack making an appearance via world merging shenanigans, and Bizarro Sephiroth, now called Sephiroth Reborn being the big bad final boss. Bizzaro Sephiroth, in the Japanese version of FF7, was literally named Rebirth Sephiroth, as in the English word Rebirth
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Feb 21, 2024 17:35
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SettingSun posted:Here's a minor spoiler I would like to know: does the game address why you start from scratch in levels/materia/weapons/etc or even if it does? Nope. You just do. That said a lot of stuff that was materia or skills is worked into a character's basic kit now, like Aerith's Familiar skill is now just something she can do by charging her regular attack instead of it being a separate ability, and everyone gets Deadly Dodge just by existing.
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Feb 22, 2024 15:37
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Everyone asks about Aerith. Does nobody care about poor innocent Cait Sith? 
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Feb 22, 2024 22:32
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The Dave posted:More detailed explanations of the end are being posted: I can say that there's a lot of stuff there that is clearly half-understood or rushed.\ ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Feb 23, 2024 |
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Feb 23, 2024 14:50
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Mordiceius posted:Regarding this - from what I've seen/read about Rebirth, it doesn't work. A vast majority of what you posted is inaccurate. Like I'm not going to spoil the ending of the game but if that is the leak that is going around then it's pretty bluntly like at best a telephone game of a telephone game of someone who ripped a cutscene. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Feb 23, 2024 |
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Feb 23, 2024 17:58
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SettingSun posted:"I know the ending but I won't post it, in the spoiler thread that exists basically for this spoiler" The ending is the one thing S-E specifically, straightforwardly and bluntly asked not to spoil and I'd rather be safe then sorry. I'll refrain from saying anything more if it is that much of a bother. I'm not trying to be a dick about this. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Feb 23, 2024 |
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Feb 23, 2024 18:13
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Mordiceius posted:Yeah, I'm only going off what I've gathered online. So maybe it is wildly inaccurate. So I can say at least the second there is 100% made up bullshit. Like not even "misunderstood", that's just someone making stuff up.
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Feb 23, 2024 18:36
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I will say that I don't think the ending is nebulous. It's pretty clear about what happens despite some messy meta stuff. There's not really any ambiguity. It's messy but not in a way where anyone is going to be going "Gosh, I just don't know what happened" going into R3.
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Feb 23, 2024 18:57
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Mordiceius posted:I, personally, am just so loving sick of multiple-timelines/multiverse poo poo. For what it is worth that isn't true in any meaningful sense. Like you see in the trailers there's a comatose Aerith/Cloud thing going on but it doesn't go inthatdirection. I don't mind debunking stuff like that because I feel like there's nothing spoilery about saying Actually Roche Is Secretly Cid is wrong. (Roche is secretly Vincent instead.
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Feb 23, 2024 19:09
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The trick is that the ending isn't important, the real important plot is the deep and dramatic storyline of Queen's Blood.
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Feb 23, 2024 19:18
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I'm not really willing to write the writers off with "gosh they are just dumb and have no idea what they are doing" when like... the vast majority of both games is so insanely on point in ways you can't just claim come from FF7 classic that I am pretty sure the writers know exactly what they are doing/want to do with the meta stuff. I may not like what they end up doing but it isn't them flailing wildly without a plan because the rest of the games have been incredibly meticulously crafted with a ton of care.
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Feb 23, 2024 19:24
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NikkolasKing posted:FFVIIR benefits from a lot of ancillary dialogue. It's something I've noticed in my ben billion runs of FFVII, how relatively spartan the interactions are in rounding off the characters and the party dynamic. Like, Cloud goes from "who cares the planet is dying" too cool for school soldier-man to pretty nice guy in about five minutes. He really drops the rear end in a top hat merc gimmick after Tifa's bar, honestly. It's pretty abrupt. FFVIIR had the money and format to expand on everyone massively. AVALANCHE did kill a bunch of civilians in this version as far as they are concerned. At no point does Avalanche ever find out their bomb wasn't what caused the explosion to be as big as it was. None of them, Cloud included, know what happened and they all blame themselves explicitly for the damage. It's also a plot point that despite the damage they intend to keep bombing reactors. There's nothing that happens in Remake that changes Barret's arc except maybe the audience realizing that Jessie didn't screw up the bomb. Barret's plot is still "We did a big explosion, it hurt/killed a lot of innocent people, and we're going to continue to do those big explosions." ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Feb 23, 2024 |
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Feb 23, 2024 20:33
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Cloud was a giant softy even in the original, though the Remake does make him more of one. There's actually an in-game explanation for why he charges 2000 gil specifically despite that not exactly being a justifiable amount of money for becoming an eco-terrorist who bombs reactors. It was the amount of money his mom scrounged up and saved to give to him when he left home.
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Feb 23, 2024 21:34
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Cartridgeblowers posted:I don't want to click these spoilers i just want to know if Wedge and Jessie survived so I know if I won $20 or not Which one did you bet on?
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Feb 23, 2024 23:40
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Cartridgeblowers posted:I was betting they lived You're out $20.
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Feb 24, 2024 09:34
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cock hero flux posted:it covers the part of the original game where you went there They changed it around.
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Feb 24, 2024 16:14
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Gologle posted:OK ImpAtom, I can't stand it anymore, I held it in for as long as I could, I need to know: Is Yuffie still as overpowered as she was in her DLC, or did they nerf her? They buffed everyone else
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Feb 26, 2024 05:06
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My go-to for that was Stardust Ray which just absolutely shits out a hilarious amount of damage and you get it literally at the start of the game.
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Feb 26, 2024 18:12
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Grouchio posted:Bummer. I would say easily over double, assuming you're doing the side content.
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Feb 26, 2024 23:51
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Spermando posted:Is the Forgotten Capital an actual dungeon or did they rush that part of the story? (I'm not clicking that link) Edit: Misunderstood. The Temple of the Ancients is the final dungeon. They cut out Bone Village so you go right from Temple to the Forgotten Capital.
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Feb 28, 2024 17:24
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The funny thing about the hyper-focus on the ending is that the stuff I'm most curious to see people's response isn't anywhere as spoiled. Like Red XIII's voice.
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Feb 28, 2024 17:34
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Harrow posted:It looks like we get an explanation of what's going on with the multiple realities/timeline stuff. As I understand the clip I saw: My understanding is that basically what happened is that when the party defeated the Whispers, they broke fate and created a bunch of faux-timelines that are all on the verge of collapse and gradually moving back towards being a single timeline. The events of the game are basically leading towards the one singular timeline overwhelming the others and Sephiroth was intending to take advantage of that in some nonsense way. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Feb 28, 2024 |
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Feb 28, 2024 18:16
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Harrow posted:Ah, that could be, too. I interpreted Sephiroth's explanation as these possibilities appearing and winking out was a normal thing, but maybe you're right that this is a consequence of defeating the Whispers and Sephiroth taking control over them. As near as I can tell, and it's pretty muddled: The Party defeated The Whispers, which caused a whole lot of stuff to gently caress up, but the main timeline was *mostly* unimpacted. There are however alternate timelines which are all unstable and seemingly just doomed worlds Aerith's White Materia had all if its knowledge drained from it, leaving behind the Clear Materia and removing Aerith's foreknowledge. Aerith blames the Whispers and knowing what we do it seems like that might have been at Sephiroth's bidding. This means Aerith no longer has her weird flashes of future knowledge. Because of all of this, the Planet is in crisis mode because Sephiroth somehow yanked control over a portion of the Whispers from it. This is why WEAPON is activated already because while everything is fine on the surface, Sephiroth and the Whispers are loving things up down below. Somehow or another Aerith and Cloud end up in Zack's timeline, and unlike the main timeline Aerith there has the White Materia. Aerith sends it back with Cloud, who gives it to Aerith, completing the circle that brings the timeline back (mostly) on track. Aerith's death is this pivotal moment and so both Sephiroth and the Planet's Whispers are doing everything they can to guide it to a certain point, which ends up guiding it roughly to where it was before, with neither Sephiroth nor the Planet able to really gain an edge. Sephiroth tries to use this moment to absorb the alternate timelines or something but gets punched in the face so hard he can't pull it off. By the end all the fuss ends up with things 95% on track, with Zack and the Clear Materia being the only real outliers at this point. I'm sure I've got some stuff wrong here, but I feel like the end result is "We're back on track, the two sides fighting over fate have basically stalemated." ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Feb 28, 2024 |
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Feb 28, 2024 18:35
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It's not 100% clear and I suspect like a lot of stuff will make sense on an emotional level more than a physical level. FF7R is weird that way in that some of the stuff it introduces is sensible only on emotional levels and other stuff actually makes perfect 100% logical sense for the world building. Like the origin of the Black Materia and the Gi Tribe is incredibly reasonable worldbuilding that actually does a lot to make some weird stuff more coherent, and then the Whispers stuff is "it works because it feels like it should work."
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Feb 28, 2024 18:46
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Mordiceius posted:What I don't get, is - if, by the end of this game, we're "back on track" with the main story..... why even add all of these convoluted elements in the first place? Was it so they could have people speculating "OH poo poo WILL THE STORY CHANGE?" because a response of "lol no. also we're just going to make things confusing" seems like the worst possible path to take? Because, if you don't go in reading all the spoilers, it adds a genuine sense of tension and dread to the ending of the game. They spend a lot of time making you wonder if things are going to change, concerned things are going to change, and there's a brief triumphant moment where it genuinely looks like things changed before the rug is pulled out from under you. Part of the problem with rushing in to read the spoiler about the ending is that you don't get that tension and buildup. That's the really annoying thing about the ending focus, in that 'will she survive?' is something built up throughout the game and they do a really excellent job of making you wonder until the last second, so you lose out on the context from the rest of the game that makes it a worthwhile thing. "Will Aerith die" is pretty much the only way to approach the best known death in video game history in a way that isn't everyone just waiting for her to die, and the game does a good job of making you want her to survive and using the hints at her survival to add weight to what happens. I'm sure people will still enjoy it but knowing what happens absolutely takes the bite out of the "Cloud protects her! ... oh, poo poo" moment which genuinely hit like a ton of bricks going into it blind. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Feb 28, 2024 |
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Feb 28, 2024 19:30
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The Dave posted:I'm having a hard time agreeing with my own thoughts but right now I'm going with: I honestly don't feel like we were robbed of it. We get the same scene, in the same context, and in terms of surprise and shock, "cut to the sword and her blood pooling on the ground" hits basically the same mark in terms of being a surprise. The blood in a game that is (largely) bloodless really stands out and adds an element of physicality to her death that wasn't there in the original game. I do think it's fair to say the funeral was changed to be more about Cloud, which I'm iffy on, but I think (especially since this is the middle game of a trilogy), ending on the emphasis that Cloud is /absolutely hosed insane/ is interesting because it really drives home the downer element of the ending. Aerith is dead, everyone is miserable, and Cloud is basically a walking time bomb. I also am pretty sure we're going to get the full funeral in the next game in Cloud's lifestream flashbacks or something.
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Feb 28, 2024 19:43
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The scene I want to see the reactions most to actually has nothing to do with the ending. I *need* to see responses to Red XIII's disguise introduction. I need it like a physical thing. It is up there with the DMCV hat dance in terms of video game scenes for me. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Feb 28, 2024 |
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Feb 28, 2024 19:50
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Mordiceius posted:Without talking to any specific plot point, I think where my disconnect comes in is that I don't understand the logic behind adding mystery to the core plot if the results are the same. Maybe I am just lacking in a creative mind or something. The easiest way I can describe it is: Plots aren't just the locations, scenes, characters and story beats. They are also the emotions those things evoke. Of those, things like surprise/shock/anticipation/tension are some of the most valuable but also some of the hardest to capture, since by necessity they are something you only really get one shot at hitting the mark. Obviously upon a replay or reread or whatever the same impact isn't there but the echo of the initial impact tends to remain with people. When you're dealing with a remake you inevitably run into the problem of how to capture those emotions again for an audience who knows things are coming, and the impact that can have on the rest of the story. Sometimes you can depend on the original story but other times doing that can drag things down for people, especially if you're expanding other material. (Or in the case of Remake, spreading it out over multiple game.) The mystery and buildup and anticipation means that even die-hard FF7 fans have the same sense of building tension and drama, rather than them sitting there waiting to get to the Fireworks Factory. FF7 is a story-heavy game so it has to build around the characters and plot. In comparison something like the Resident Evil remakes are more plot-light so they do things that gently caress with the player's expectations, such as moving traps around, changing weaknesses, adding extra scares and so-on. The intent is the same, to add tension, surprise and mystery to an experience the player is already familiar with, with the hope that by the end there will be a greater emotional impact to the story than if you just knew everything that was going to happen beforehand. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Feb 28, 2024 |
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Feb 28, 2024 20:10
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Mordiceius posted:Yeah, that's all absolutely fair. I don't disagree with you. I guess, for me, I feel like if you're going to add that mystery and tension, then you need to stick the landing. I don't like the ending to Remake. From the stuff I watched, I don't really like the ending to Rebirth either. Yeah, that's fair. If it doesn't stick the landing for you, it doesn't. I honestly am not big on the meta-stuff but I do like the "Cloud's hosed up brain" stuff, so it kind of evens out to me more than Remake which was just the meta stuff. In general I like Rebirth playing up how absolutely hosed in the head Cloud is, it's one of my favorite elements of the original.
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Feb 28, 2024 20:27
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MonsterEnvy posted:Wonder how the Cloud starts losing his mind and beats the poo poo out of Aeirth scene goes. I am guessing more disturbing than the original. It is more disturbing in a different way. Aerith grabs the Black Materia and starts to run away from Cloud who follows after her sort of half-begging/half-demanding the Black Materia in this really creepy uncomfortable way, sounding more and more desperate, insisting he has to have it, and when Aerith finally turns it over in desperation he sort of... scampers over to Sephiroth and offers it like he's a dog expecting a treat. I genuinely like it more than the original scene. It's *really* uncomfortable to see Cloud's personality and dignity stripped away while he keeps this air of 'everything is normal' and Aerith is clearly terrified. They genuinely go for a Renfield thing with him and it really works better than him just attacking Aerith. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Feb 28, 2024 |
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Feb 28, 2024 20:31
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VagueRant posted:In an adaptation that's 50% sensible, nuanced, interesting thoughts like "Aside from serious mental illness and trauma, how does Tifa not confront him about his lies?" and the answer is by adding a more understandable mutual distrust The Red's voice thing makes perfect sense and I genuinely love it. Like just him going "Yeah, of course I was talking like that, I'm already a red dog with a flaming tail, I didn't want you treating me like a child on top of that" is 100% logical, fits with the original characterization, and plays into how he's portrayed throughout the game. It's up there with the Gi Tribe thing for "This makes total sense and I have no objections." In general painting Red as "A complete loving dorky teenager pretending to be older than he is" also makes complete sense and helps give him a defined role and personality in the crew.
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Feb 28, 2024 21:09
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Grouchio posted:All I've allowed myself to see is the very last scene with cloud and gang leaving on cid's plane and cloud saying farewell to other-aerith. He also has the Black Materia. He puts the Clear one away and realizes he has the Black One. He shoves it into his sword and I assume that's just magic because the Black Materia is too big to fit in a standard slot. From what he says as he's doing it, it's implied he was mind-woogied into doing so and may not even realize he did it.
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Feb 28, 2024 23:11
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Grouchio posted:The...black materia that he already gave to sephiroth, or is this a second black materia? The first. Sephiroth getting the Black Materia from Cloud was presented not as an actual thing but him testing and manipulating Cloud. Like he actually drops the Black Materia and tells Cloud to go fetch it for him. It seems like it's the same deal as in the original game where Sephiroth either needs or wants Cloud to willingly bring it to him. Basically they shifted it from "Sephiroth got the Materia, and then Jenova just sort of hung out with it for reasons" to "Sephiroth manipulated Cloud into delivering the Materia to him, while the rest of the team is unaware and thinks Sephiroth has it." I think it's mostly to avoid that weird part in the first game where you get the Black Materia back, hand it over to Barret/Red, and then they just kind of bring it along and hand it to Cloud anyway for no clear reason. Framing it as "Cloud had it all along and nobody realized, including himself" kind of makes more sense. Basically the chain of custody in the original: Temple of the Ancients -> Given to Sephiroth (copy) -> A Jenova (presumably the same Sephiroth you gave the Materia too) has it in the Northern Crater -> Red/Barret -> Cloud -> Sephiroth. I assume in part 3 it'll go Temple of the Ancients -> Sephiroth was loving with Cloud to confirm/cement his control over him -> Cloud (unknowingly) has it, which is just a much cleaner chain of events, and there's a horrible moment of drama when the crew finds Sephiroth in the crater expecting to take the Materia back and discovers too late they brought it right to him. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Feb 28, 2024 |
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Feb 28, 2024 23:31
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oWU3MzSiTs The entire game is justified by this one scene
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Feb 29, 2024 00:36
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Gilgamesh owns so hard in this
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Feb 29, 2024 14:41
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VagueRant posted:I also feel like if they were doing Bizarro/Rebirth Sephiroth, you'd just cut the extra jenova fight having done 2 already. I don't agree with that actually. Cid as he is portrayed when he is introduced is markedly different from how Cid acts for the entire rest of the game where he's a lovable curmudgeon at worst. He's the kind of dude who shouts that of course he's going to save the planet, he's a MAN and that gets him fired up. It is Cid's introduction that tends to set the tone for how people viewed him but it boiled down to "Cid is lovely to Shera" rather than "Cid is a constantly swearing shitbird." To be honest I think it makes more sense because Cid's introduction was already kind of ugh in 1997, and in 2024 introducing him as a guy howling and cursing at a cowering woman is, uh, gonna make everyone genuinely hate the dude. By introducing him at his more affable (which, again, is how he acts for the *entire rest of the game*) you make it so that if he is cold or offputting to Shera, it's clear that it is not a common thing for him. Also Cid's swearing is largely a translation thing anyway. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Mar 1, 2024 |
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Mar 1, 2024 17:37
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Infinity Gaia posted:However, removing his smoking is unacceptable. How is he going to light his dynamite now? Sadly I'm pretty sure that boils down entirely to "ratings boards freak out about smoking and there is a good chance including that would have bumped the game to M."
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Mar 1, 2024 17:50
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