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I think it was a bold choice for the game to end with Cid 9/11ing the Highwind into the Shinra Building but I gotta say, I think it'll pay off in part 3
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Feb 20, 2024 19:43
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Dear god the leak threads everywhere are absolutely hilarious It feels like different corners of the internet all came up with their own versions of what must happen in Rebirth, and now they're all colliding to have no-holds-barred absolute rage fits at each other over incomplete and conflicting leaks. Shippers are going absolutely nuclear, whether it's Clerith shippers going apoplectic over the kiss scene, or Cloti shippers losing their minds because Cloud can hold Aerith's hand, hardcore Clerith shippers who were dead certain Aerith would live being confronted with the possibility (no confirmation, just a maybe) that she won't live and fully melting down, Zack & Aerith shippers hoping for some kind of thing where she doesn't actually die and just hops timelines to be with Zack, Zack fans upset that Zack isn't the real main character in a MGS2 Raiden switcheroo, etc. I have no idea what is and isn't real but I'm having a lot of fun reading the meltdowns. ImpAtom posted:Bizzaro Sephiroth, in the Japanese version of FF7, was literally named Rebirth Sephiroth, as in the English word Rebirth I will say, if that particular leak is real, it sounds cool as hell. I admit I'm willing to spoil myself a bit because I have some... lingering annoyance about the way Remake ended, and I just wanted to calibrate my expectations appropriately. But if the Reborn ("Bizarro") leak is accurate then I gotta say I think that sounds hype and I'll be happy not reading any more spoilers and just going on in with a smile. Harrow fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Feb 21, 2024 |
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Feb 21, 2024 18:33
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That and an apparently accurate ending leak came out so everyone switched to arguing about that. And shipping. On the topic of that apparently accurate ending leak: god it is wild to be on the other side of the argument now from where I was on Remake. I really didn't like all the Whisper and timeline stuff, though I know some people loved it. Those people seem to be the ones bitterly disappointed now, angry that the story seems to be largely following the original just like the creators repeatedly said in interviews. While I'm like "I dunno, sounds pretty cool."
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Feb 22, 2024 15:01
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The Dave posted:More detailed explanations of the end are being posted: What's interesting is this is essentially what the creative leads have been saying in interviews for years. The story of FFVII is being told, but there's a new mystery added on top of it. I think a lot of people assumed they were lying or somehow being misleading but it seems like that's what's actually happening. Personally, I'm fine with it, but I would like to know what the Whispers stuff amounts to. It was so meta in Remake, but if it turns out that there really isn't some major divergence happening, I'm wondering what all that "beating fate" stuff was about.
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Feb 23, 2024 14:34
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I'm going to go ahead and put my big picture prediction here so that everyone can quote it and laugh at me when it's proven wrong (either in Rebirth or part 3): There is no other timeline and Zack isn't alive. He's in the Lifestream. That's why Biggs woke up there in the ending of Remake: he died. I bet we'll see Jessie and Wedge in "Zack's world" at some point, too, if not in Rebirth then in part 3. It's also where the final battle from Remake took place--what Zack was seeing when he saw the dome of Whispers around Midgar was the arena where Cloud & friends were fighting the Whisper Harbinger and Sephiroth. That's why we open with Zack seeing the wreckage from that huge tornado. That whole fight clearly hosed poo poo up within the Lifestream. This will finally be revealed in part 3 when Cloud falls into the Lifestream and wakes up in the body of the comatose Cloud in Zack's Midgar. Zack will then play a role in helping to heal Cloud's mind with Tifa, and also will support Aerith as she summons the Lifestream to stop Meteor at the end, possibly having his own final boss fight with Sephiroth in the Lifestream or something. Why are there other people there? Same reason there are other people in the dreams in Inception: they're just projections of the Lifestream. Aerith could feel Zack's presence at the end of Remake because she can feel things happening in the Lifestream. Why does Marlene talk to Zack in Rebirth all mystical-like? Because she's a Cetra and we already know that Cetra can sometimes speak to the dead (see: young Aerith talking to Elmyra's dead husband). Are there holes in this? gently caress yeah. Is it entirely possible that even Rebirth makes the above prediction impossible, and it won't even take until part 3 to prove it wrong? Hell yeah it is. I'm all-in on looking dumb as gently caress, let's goooooo
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Feb 23, 2024 15:00
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I assume ImpAtom has a good reason not to spoil the ending so  ImpAtom posted:A vast majority of what you posted is inaccurate. It has been interesting watching the game of telephone happen through sites like GameFAQs and Lifestream.net as a bunch of conflicting information (some of which is fake, some is probably misinterpreted or poorly described, some real) collides and gets all mixed up and then everyone has their own version of what they think the leaked ending is.
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Feb 23, 2024 18:13
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Mordiceius posted:Well that's neat. From what I've seen, it feels like the reason it's so messy is (this doesn't spoil the actual events, just how they're told) they try to position everything in Cloud's (extremely brain-damaged) point of view. So everything is very glitchy, there are hallucinations, things seem to happen and then they didn't really happen, things like that. ImpAtom can obviously say if I've also misinterpreted what I've read, and I'm sure there's more to it than that, but that seems to be a major element of it.
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Feb 23, 2024 18:44
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I can't really describe why I wanted to spoil this ending for myself in a way that sounds rational to other people, but I'm still kind of irritated by all the Whispers stuff at the end of Remake so I think it was helpful for me to be able to calibrate my expectations. That said what I've read so far--the descriptions that haven't been debunked, at least--actually sounds pretty cool. I'm sure there are issues with the execution but I can see what they're going for and I think it might be pretty neat once the whole trilogy is said and done. I will take ImpAtom's advice not to spoil any of the character interactions and humor for myself, though. Mordiceius posted:I, personally, am just so loving sick of multiple-timelines/multiverse poo poo. From the non-debunked leaks I've seen, what's going on with Zack is still very ambiguous. Could be another timeline, could be something else. Rebirth doesn't really clarify one way or the other yet. Leakers seem to suggest that the "it's a secret sequel" stuff people speculated after Rebirth might not actually be the case and it's more along the lines of a reimagining than a metafictional sequel. Again, there's a shitload I won't know until the game's out so that could be wrong. Harrow fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Feb 23, 2024 |
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Feb 23, 2024 19:02
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Honest Thief posted:do you play as cid and vincent? I haven't seen any footage of how they play No, not until part 3. This was mentioned in an interview a bit ago so it’s not really a surprise.
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Feb 24, 2024 12:57
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welcome posted:So where the spoilers at. The spoiler thread edit: oh wait this is the spoiler thread lmao
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Feb 28, 2024 16:39
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Anyway if you want spoilers just go to Youtube and type in "FF7 rebirth ending." It's easy to find. There's also a compilation of all of Zack's scenes that I haven't watched because I know enough now that I'm just gonna play the game to find out the rest.
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Feb 28, 2024 16:44
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It looks like we get an explanation of what's going on with the multiple realities/timeline stuff. As I understand the clip I saw: There are multiple worlds that are all part of the Planet, essentially existing within the Planet itself (likely in the Lifestream?). They seem to represent possibility, but none of these alternate worlds last--they inevitably return to the Planet. It seems like Zack is in one of those alternate "possibilities." The way it makes sense to me is like: you know how the Planet and the Lifestream contain memories? Well they have an imagination, too.
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Feb 28, 2024 18:00
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ImpAtom posted:My understanding is that basically what happened is that when the party defeated the Whispers, they broke fate and created a bunch of faux-timelines that are all on the verge of collapse and gradually moving back towards being a single timeline. The events of the game are basically leading towards the one singular timeline overwhelming the others and Sephiroth was intending to take advantage of that in some nonsense way. Ah, that could be, too. I interpreted Sephiroth's explanation as these possibilities appearing and winking out was a normal thing, but maybe you're right that this is a consequence of defeating the Whispers and Sephiroth taking control over them. He does say something in the trailers about harvesting "spite and sorrow" so I imagine this is an elaboration on his plan in the original to absorb the Lifestream from a wound in the Planet after Meteor strikes. He's planning to absorb all those realities, all the pain and suffering and life that exists within them.
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Feb 28, 2024 18:19
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Aha, y'know, I had wondered what the Clear Materia was about. I'm excited to finally play the game and get full context lol Mostly I'm curious about the nature of the alternate realities. It sounds like they're something that exist within the Planet, rather than being true "separate timelines" or whatever, possibly in whatever possibility space the party was transported to for the final boss fight of Remake?
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Feb 28, 2024 18:40
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If, like me, anyone else was super excited to see all the new weapon models, they're shown in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6npAEnLbZHM Cloud's Counterstance weapon looks pretty sick
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Feb 28, 2024 18:51
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Mordiceius posted:What I don't get, is - if, by the end of this game, we're "back on track" with the main story..... why even add all of these convoluted elements in the first place? Was it so they could have people speculating "OH poo poo WILL THE STORY CHANGE?" because a response of "lol no. also we're just going to make things confusing" seems like the worst possible path to take? If I'm taking the creators' words at face value: Basically, they wanted to add an extra mystery element to keep people hooked for a whole trilogy even if they know the story of the original. They've said a few times that we should expect the overall story to be the same, but with new elements and a new mystery, which seems to be the case in Rebirth. I also think, going by ImpAtom's description, that all the "fate" stuff is still going to be relevant in that it's the reason these alternate realities in the Lifestream popped up at all. The actual overall events of the plot might not be changing much but there are a bunch of new elements that remain unresolved. Hard to say in what way since they're clearly saving the full resolution for part 3, of course.
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Feb 28, 2024 19:29
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(I feel like this is safe to unspoiler)ImpAtom posted:Part of the problem with rushing in to read the spoiler about the ending is that you don't get that tension and buildup. Yeah and to be fair, the reason I read the spoilers in the first place is I didn't really want this particular tension and build-up. I had a pretty negative association with all the Whisper and fate stuff and just wanted the band-aid pulled off. I've got one of those brains with super high levels of both curiosity and impatience. Add to that all the expectations I have based on my own love of the source material and I think not knowing (in broad strokes at least) where things were going would've actually lessened my enjoyment (purely on a personal level, this is absolutely just a me thing). Hard to say I guess.
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Feb 28, 2024 19:33
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Although one thing I haven't done is watch a lot of videos. I'm trying not to watch videos on much other than gameplay right now because it's very different to read a description of something and see it actually play out. I'll actually see most of this for the first time when I actually play.
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Feb 28, 2024 19:38
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It makes me so happy they put Gilgamesh in this.NikkolasKing posted:Is there like a good bullet point list of spoilers for Rebirth? I don't feel like watching any cutscenes, just want a good, reliable list of notable changes and stuff. (the stuff posted earlier seemed pretty tenuous, and I thought some of it was debunked.) I figure there has to be such a reliable list by now. Pre-release, spoilers were so focused on either shipping wars or the ending that there's not much detail about anything else around.
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Feb 29, 2024 14:30
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I have only one real complaint about what I know of the final boss/ending sequence: no "Birth of a God" arrangement? Really? For shame. I'll just have to hope they're saving that banger for part 3 for some reason.
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Feb 29, 2024 21:24
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Yeah I sort of suspect the changes to Cid's character are partially only in English, and we're just getting a more faithful translation this time. We don't see his darker traits yet because we haven't gone to Rocket Town and met Shera. There are changes (the lack of smoking is an aesthetic one, at least) but it's probably more pronounced in English.
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Mar 1, 2024 19:50
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I'm sort of expecting part 3 to have a three act structure, in broad strokes. Act 1 is the lead-up to the Northern Crater, probably expanded to fit a satisfying build-up and payoff into the beginning of a game (rather than being able to just continue directly on from Aerith's death in the original and keep the tension going). Act 2 I think might be a significantly remixed combination of the search for Cloud and the Magnus Materia plot, likely involving Weapons as ImpAtom points out. Act 3 starts with Cloud's mind being restored (maybe with Zack also helping this time?) and continues on until the end. Obviously there's the new elements that will be going on interwoven with all of this, but just in the most big-picture outline that's sort of what I'm expecting.
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Mar 3, 2024 16:21
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Ah that's right, I forgot that Wutai's going to have a much bigger plot in part 3 as well. It seems like there's a lot to fit into one more part. After seeing Rebirth I'm confident they can do it but drat I'm curious to see how.
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Mar 3, 2024 16:49
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I think it's unclear whether the original and AC have "happened before" or whether it's more like a "the Planet has foreknowledge" thing. Could be either, or both.
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Mar 3, 2024 22:04
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I'm a little baffled at a common interpretation of the ending I keep seeing. It seems like a lot of people believe that the glitches that happen during Aerith's death scene represent jumping between different timelines, but like... we know what that looks like. We can see what traveling between worlds is like because that just happened. It involves traveling through a white void and is a lot more visually dramatic. Meanwhile what we see during Aerith's death scene are the mako-green static effects that have so far always accompanied Cloud's brain glitching. Hell, Sephiroth even outright says his classic "you'll never see the truth through clouded eyes" line. I don't think it could be any clearer that what's going on is that Cloud is not perceiving reality, thanks to the wonderful blend of his PTSD, mako poisoning, and increasingly-active Jenova cells.
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Mar 4, 2024 15:45
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The implications about mako poisoning if consciousnesses can travel to other realities through (or within) the Lifestream is kind of fascinating. The Lifestream (and by extension mako) is made up of memories and emotions. Mako poisoning happens because all of the memories, sensations, emotions, etc. of the souls within the Lifestream overwhelm you either due to acute mako exposure or long-term exposure, essentially washing away your own memories and identity. It's like mako poisoning turns people into empty vessels and another identity can come along and sort of hijack them. Maybe Cloud and Aerith are doing to their comatose counterparts what Sephiroth does to the Sephiroth clones. My read on the white vs. black Whispers and Sephiroth seemingly appearing in other timelines to kill Aerith there is that they represent the tug-of-war inside the Lifestream between Gaia (represented by/working through Aerith) and Jenova (represented by/working through Sephiroth). We know Jenova's specifically trying to spread her will throughout the Lifestream to corrupt it, and that the other realities are inevitably going to collapse back into the Lifestream sooner or later, so it seems like an extension of that conflict. Harrow fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Mar 4, 2024 |
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Mar 4, 2024 16:54
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I'm actually wondering if Sephiroth is going to try to convince Cloud he killed Aerith or something like that, as part of the "finish completely breaking Cloud's mind" bit at the Northern Crater
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Mar 5, 2024 21:35
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I wonder if they're going to try to address why Sephiroth didn't just let go of the sword
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Mar 6, 2024 19:32
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I know, I'm just being a stinkerRand Brittain posted:Cloud was still in the middle of his attack animation. This is canon though
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Mar 6, 2024 19:47
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I definitely think there's a lot more to come with the alternate reality stuff, but I think that article's reaching a bit. For one, I'm not sure where the author got the idea that if Red XIII wasn't in the Singularity with the rest of the group at the end of Remake, he wouldn't still be with them now. We meet a lot of people from our main reality who weren't in the Singularity again. Hell, Yuffie was in Midgar at the time and wasn't in the Singularity and she's still part of this story and in the same universe. I feel like they're reaching for a reason why Cloud is seeing another reality from the others, when it's possible that he's just not seeing the truth of any reality. After she gets stabbed, every scene we have of Aerith has her acting... well, very dead. She's behaving like a spirit saying her farewells, not like someone who's alive in one timeline and dead in another. She comforts Cloud over her own death, appears out of the white void during the final boss fight (just like she does in Advent Children), and sadly says goodbye at the end. To me, that all signposts that she's dead-dead, not "dead in one universe but alive in another." But the one thing that gives me pause is all the rainbow light stuff. The rainbow light does seem closely connected with "timeline divergence" or "creating a new timeline" or something like that, and there's rainbow light all over those scenes. That's the one thing that suggests that maybe the article is right and I'm just misreading Aerith's behavior. It's also possible that the rainbow "timeline light" might be there because of Sephiroth's confluence of worlds that's going on, hard to say. Harrow fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Mar 11, 2024 |
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Mar 11, 2024 14:05
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Also, dumb prediction: Remake has an obvious reference to the ending of the original with the scene where Cloud and Sephiroth are squaring up to duel and the camera flashes back and forth between them. Rebirth did it again, this time with Zack and Cloud standing together. My guess: part 3 will do it one last time, this time with Cloud, Zack, and Aerith.
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Mar 11, 2024 14:28
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Onmi posted:The only thing that breaks the "Well Cloud's just crazy" is the fact that he see's the crack in the sky that people in the Terrier Timeline are seeing. Aerith is easily explained as "Ah Cloud's completely lost the plot and refuses to accept she's died." But why would he see something others have seen? Yeah, that's another thing. I guess it could be multiple things at the same time. Cloud's mind broke, and he's seeing metaphysical phenomena others aren't, and he's seeing Aerith's spirit (who Red XIII also senses). This doesn't really answer the question, but I wonder if Jenova cells play a part in the ability to see and interact with otherworldly things like this. Maybe he's seeing the crack in the sky "early" because of his Jenova cells,. Maybe the other black robed guys are seeing it, too, which is why they're all moving out from Nibelheim at this moment, like a bat signal for the Reunion. All I know is the Ultimania for this is going to be wild and I'm looking forward to everyone trying to interpret it for years before part 3 comes out.
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Mar 11, 2024 14:35
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HD DAD posted:Yeah, it’s either Jenova cells, or him being dunked in mako for so long that a piece of him was literally left within the Lifestream - one that eventually needs to be retrieved for him to be whole again. And him having that connection to the planet can make him see all kinds of trippy planet-conjured machinations. Ohhh y'know, that makes sense, too. Mako poisoning happens because the memories and souls within the Lifestream overwhelm your own, essentially washing away your memories and identity. It'd make sense that those things would still be in the Lifestream, like the forgotten memories Tifa relived when she fell in at Gongaga.
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Mar 11, 2024 14:44
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A thing I appreciate that is probably too spoilery a discussion for the main thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3ANG1V3Do0 I absolutely love how they went, "Okay, we did a faithful recreation of 'J-E-N-O-V-A' in Remake. Now we get to go wild with it." The vocals and the wildly accelerating arpeggio in the Jenova Emergent theme are just absolutely perfect Also I kind of like the twists on the Jenova fight names this time. BIRTH becomes "Emergent" and LIFE becomes "Lifeclinger." Makes me wonder if the Japanese versions are the same names as the original. Harrow fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Mar 11, 2024 |
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Mar 11, 2024 18:26
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Figure this is probably easier to discuss here than in the main thread. Anyone else notice this part of the Gi backstory?     I'm curious what it means that their "star" (maybe in the FFXIV sense, meaning "world") was "subsumed" by the planet. Is it like a natural process, as a world dies it gets absorbed into other worlds?
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Mar 11, 2024 19:34
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I'm not sure there's any conscious thought to it for the Planet. You came from the Lifestream, you return to it. You didn't, you can't. There might not be anything anyone can do about it, even whatever consciousness the Planet might possess. It's just How It Works, or at least that's the impression I got. The Lifespring lore you find also provides a different perspective on the Gi vs. Cetra conflict, in that it sounds like maybe the Cetra were actually kind to the Gi and the Gi feel abandoned by them.
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Mar 11, 2024 23:00
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My take on Rebirth's continuation of the Whispers/timeline plot: I still don't like that this element is in the games. However, this time I will admit I am having fun with it. Like the Zack scenes are wild, a Zack/Cloud team-up against Sephiroth is just hype as gently caress, and it is fun to speculate about what's going on. I wish I could see a version of these games without it, but I'm at least having more fun with it than I did in Remake. That said I also really don't like the idea that they're doing a Schrödinger's Aerith, like that RPGSite theory states (and a lot of theories I've seen around). In my read, everything about that scene says "Cloud's mind is broken and being hosed with by Jenova--Aerith was killed but he can't perceive it," especially with how sad you can see Aerith is, and her melancholy "goodbye" at the end. But all the rainbow light does seem to suggest there's multiverse stuff going on there and that there's an alternate timeline where Aerith's alive, which... I dunno, to me that's dumb as gently caress. If that's the case I'm gonna be disappointed, because "there's a wish fulfillment dimension out there where everything's fine  " just feels a little... pandering.Meanwhile if this is all going deeper on Cloud's mega-mako-Jenova-psychosis instead and Sephiroth's going to do something like try to convince Cloud he killed Aerith or something, that's much more interesting to me.
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Mar 12, 2024 03:42
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I hope they can pay off the Whispers stuff in part 3. I think it's possible that this isn't actually intended to be a sequel and is actually a reimagining, but it's hard to say without knowing where all the Whisper stuff is leading, and it does throw into question the way it's presented in the finale of Remake. The way it's handled in Rebirth somewhat feels like it's just supposed to represent the struggle between the Planet and Sephiroth/Jenova, with the black Whispers representing the part of the Lifestream that has been corrupted by Jenova, though of course that doesn't explain the timeline stuff. I just hope it all pays off in a way that's at least somewhat interesting.
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Mar 12, 2024 14:26
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I think my take is that the writers are a bit too in love with their own mystery box to the point that it detracts from the rest of the story. On paper I'm fine with everything that's going on, assuming my interpretation of events is correct, but it does feel weird that we're 2/3s of the way through the trilogy and still don't really have any idea what's going on. Like I feel like I don't know any more about the overall metaplot than I did at the end of Remake. We still don't know what Sephiroth wants, or how he plans to do it, or how he has the power to do what he's doing. Rebirth adds even more question marks to that. What was this "confluence of worlds" at the end? Did Sephiroth cause it, or was it happening already and he just took advantage of it? (If he did cause it, how?) Either way, what was he trying to accomplish with the confluence? Did he accomplish it? Because I honestly can't tell, he's just got that smug look all the time, no idea if we foiled something at the end of Rebirth or not. Does he plan to do it again? Why? What are the consequences of linking worlds? (And if my interpretation of events isn't correct--if there's some kind of Schrödinger's Aerith going on, where she's still alive in some universe somewhere--then I think that's pretty dumb and won't satisfy anyone.) On the whole I think Rebirth is an incredible game and I do think I had more fun with the multiverse mystery box stuff this time, but it still just feels like it hasn't actually gone anywhere, and at the 2/3s point, I'd hope for something more than just continued teases. I guess we know for sure it's a multiple worlds situation?
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Mar 12, 2024 17:14
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| # ¿ May 9, 2024 23:52 |
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To be fair, the creators have been pretty consistent in interviews in maintaining that the Rebirth trilogy will generally follow the story of the original, but with a new mystery added in. People seemed to assume they were outright lying every time I brought that up in the past but Rebirth does seem to be pretty much that.
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Mar 12, 2024 17:30
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