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Vitamin Me posted:I start the mission with a mech setup as suggested, but it was too slow and the weapons mix was too ineffective. I can, however, say that I hope it manages to make it into the Falcon campaign at some point so we can see it in all its... "glory."
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Mar 6, 2024 07:13
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CptWedgie posted:Well, can't say I'm surprised my suggestion couldn't cut it in the last real mission of the game; I was pretty sure it was a bad idea when I suggested it. Yes I'll definitely use once we hit the allowed tonnage..it has so much missiles, it's a fun mech
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Mar 6, 2024 08:07
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mech from little kid me: - max armor - min heatsinks - all the machine guns, absolutely no other weapons I remember it as being surprisingly effective up until the point it runs out of ammunition halfway through the mission
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Mar 6, 2024 19:22
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Foxfire_ posted:mech from little kid me: This might work when you don't need to blow up buildings..or you do have to blow up a building, but can get away with skipping the enemies I'll give this a shot
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Mar 6, 2024 20:01
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We start the Jade Falcon campaign! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeJTDbKATpk I took the 'machinegun-only' mech into battle, and it worked pretty well..of course, at some point we're going to face heavier mechs and it won't be useful anymore, but I'll see how long I can keep beating missions with it.
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Mar 6, 2024 21:15
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Foxfire_ posted:mech from little kid me: Due to the way ammo explosion rules work in the tabletop game packing a bunch of machine gun ammo is like signing your own highly explosive death warrant, but I don't think it's quite as suicidal in MW2. Especially because Clan 'mechs have CASE built in to their ammo bins, a special system that is designed to direct the blast from an ammo explosion so that only one of your structural sections gets blown into oblivion. You can also get lucky because the more attacks you roll the higher the chance you can land a through-armor critical, and gently caress up something really important on your opponent's 'mech, like their engine or ammo... or the pilot. You tend to be unpopular at the table when you rely on this trick because your turns take forever to roll all your MG attacks. But there is a role for a 'mech like this because of the existence of infantry in the game, and in fact there is precedent: https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Piranha
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Mar 6, 2024 21:18
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Vitamin Me posted:We start the Jade Falcon campaign! In your MechLab fitting out the Mad Dog (at ~6:40) you hadn't allocated all that armor, so your tonnage was less than you had figured on. I don't remember how exactly a given 'mech is limited in how much armor can be assigned to each hit location but 11.5 tons of Ferro-Fibrous armor gives you 221 points of armor, and you only allocated 195 of them.
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Mar 7, 2024 05:04
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Lemniscate Blue posted:I don't remember how exactly a given 'mech is limited in how much armor can be assigned to each hit location... Example: Arbitrary mech A has a limit of 40 armor on the torso locations, and 25 armor on the limbs. You can assign 25 armor to the limbs no problem, but if you try to assign, say, 30 front and 15 rear armor on the right torso it won't work; that's a total of 45, which is more than the arbitrary mech can carry on a single torso section. ...though if you're asking how they got those numbers for the armor limits, I have no idea; I just know how to read the menu.
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Mar 7, 2024 06:22
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CptWedgie posted:It's pretty simple, really. On the armor submenu, you've got a bunch of locations, each of which has a number next to the name, right? That number is the total amount of armor you can assign to that location. In most cases it's a straightforward "you can put this much on" sorta thing, but for the three torso locations that number needs to be split between front and rear armor. That's pretty much what I figured but I don't know if the max allowed is by the tonnage you've dedicated to armor or if a particular mech is only allowed to allocate a maximum to a given space no matter if they've still got extra points from the tonnage bought. I'm pretty sure I am not explaining it well so to take the example of the Machine Gun Mad Dog in the most recent video, only 195/221 armor points were allocated. The torso that was highlighted at 6:40 had 16 allocated to the front and 11 to the rear, but is it only possible to allocate 27 points of armor in total to a Mad Dog's side torso (it looked like increasing one decreased the other)? If so, why can you add more armor tonnage than can actually be fit on in allocation? Anyway it's all pretty nitpicky so it doesn't really matter, and it's likely I'm misinterpreting what I saw in the video.
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Mar 7, 2024 06:43
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I believe I assigned max armor because back points started decreasing while adding front points, and all other parts didn't add any more.. In the next video I'll take another look at the armor points and what the manual says about it, see if we can figure this out 
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Mar 7, 2024 07:42
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Lemniscate Blue posted:a particular mech is only allowed to allocate a maximum to a given space no matter if they've still got extra points from the tonnage bought. ...apparently I'm bad at explaining this stuff; it seems clear to me, but on the other hand of course it seems clear to someone who already knows it.
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Mar 7, 2024 07:56
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It's starting to sound like the disconnect is MechLab letting the player buy 221 points of armor when they can only allocate 195 (substitute appropriate numbers for different weight 'mechs). If there's a cap, it ought to be a cap. Then again, MechLab doesn't really hold your hand at all in any other context and will cheerfully let you make a missile boat with no ammo. 
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Mar 7, 2024 09:32
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New vid! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip72t0KQK1o This time I took some time to understand the armor allocation, and why sometimes the used weight changed after saving. It's actually pretty simple, and I hope the little deep-dive at the start of the video is clear.
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Mar 8, 2024 14:48
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Okay, that makes sense! There were a few things I'd obviously forgotten and a couple things I'd never realized at all. Thanks for taking the time to investigate and clearing it up.
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Mar 8, 2024 17:56
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Lemniscate Blue posted:Okay, that makes sense! There were a few things I'd obviously forgotten and a couple things I'd never realized at all. Thanks for taking the time to investigate and clearing it up. No problem, I never understoond all those numbers so it was good to finally check how it's supposed to work! Funny thing is, I started making an excel sheet with simple formulas that multiplied the 'internal structure' with x2 or x3 to get to the allowed max..only to switch back and seeing the results already in the interface lol.
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Mar 8, 2024 21:18
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Mechwarrior 2's Mechlab follows the same rules as BattleTech tabletop, with a few exceptions. The era it was made allowed fractional accounting, so you could do quarter-ton changes rather than full ton. As a quick aside, MW2 also allows you to add or remove Ferro-Fibrous Armor and Endo Steel and adjust the engine rating of the OmniMechs, which isn't currently allowed in BattleTech's tabletop rules. Structure is a set value determined by the 'Mech's weight, so all 30 tonners will have the same structure values and all 60 tonners will have the same structure values no matter who built them or whether they're using endo-steel or standard structure. Now, the real trick? Some 'Mechs are horribly inefficient, and can't max their armor because those last 1-2 points don't add up to 1/4 ton. I won't get into engine ratings, but as a general rule mechs at the heaviest end of their respective weight class (the Jenner IIC, Stormcrow, Timber Wolf, and Dire Wolf) will be superior to anything lighter but also superior to the lighter end of the next weight bracket. So, for example, a Stormcrow is faster than the Mad Dog (because it's the most efficient 97kph 'Mech (6/9 in tabletop), while the Mad Dog could be pushed that fast at a huge cost in weight). The Stormcrow is also tougher by default. The Mad Dog is most efficient at 80 kph and can carry a slightly larger armament, but it's also completely outclassed by the other 5/8 heavies. The rare exceptions to the above rule are a 64 kph (4/6) 85 tonner with an XL Engine, so the Warhawk and Marauder IIC are both good 'Mechs to watch out for later; or a 20 tonner with a huge engine built for pure speed. So the Fire Moth is actually a reasonably efficient 'Mech, even if it's nowhere near as survivable in Mechwarrior 2 as it would be in tabletop.
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Mar 9, 2024 04:58
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PoptartsNinja posted:Now, the real trick? Some 'Mechs are horribly inefficient, and can't max their armor because those last 1-2 points don't add up to 1/4 ton. I won't get into engine ratings, but as a general rule mechs at the heaviest end of their respective weight class (the Jenner IIC, Stormcrow, Timber Wolf, and Dire Wolf) will be superior to anything lighter but also superior to the lighter end of the next weight bracket. So you're saying the Storm Crow, while having less internal structure points than the Mad Dog, can make more effective armor assignments? Looking at the mechs in the manual, I do see that the Mad Dog for example has 23 armor points on the legs and 16 on the arms, while the Storm Crow has 26 and 18. So The Mad Dog is actually the weaker mech (at least at this configuration), Also! New vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdj7qE4ap_A This one's a double-bill of machinegun-action, breezing through two levels.
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Mar 9, 2024 08:36
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Vitamin Me posted:So you're saying the Storm Crow, while having less internal structure points than the Mad Dog, can make more effective armor assignments? Essentially. The Stormcrow uses what it has more efficiently--including a bigger engine, and the difference in maximum armor between them is 1 ton. The Stormcrow tops out at 9.5 tons (which leaves it 4-ish points away from fully armored) while the Mad Dog gets 10.5, but is a significantly bigger target. The Mad Dog's advantage is, because it has a smaller (slower) engine, it's got 28 tons available to use for weapons compared to the Stormcrow's 23, but if all you're mounting is machineguns or other small weapons the Stormcrow lets you mount more of them. Machineguns don't generate heat, so you never need additional heat sinks when using them. The Stormcrow's extra speed can be beneficial, since machineguns have a 90 meter maximum range (ish--the game fudges things a little but that's because of how it models damage). Which brings me to another fun bug in Mechwarrior 2, by the way: you can get your Heat Sinks into the negatives. Because the game doesn't see any reason you'd use less than 10 double heat sinks, if you drop your heat sinks to 10 and switch to single the game will give you 5-6 doubles instead. It's only programmed to stop you from dropping below 10, so once it assigns you a value below 10 you can drop your heat sinks as far into the negatives as you want. This means you'll instantly overheat and die without using cheats, but if you're fast enough you can punch in the no heat cheat during startup to avoid an immediate explosion.  I don't recommend it for your actual run, but it's fun to play around with. Edit: Just reminded myself of another fun fact about Mechwarrior 2: the game predates the idea of hitboxes. Mechwarrior 2 instead uses bounding spheres, which are drawn around a central point in each component: torso, head, arms, legs. A shot "inside" the sphere registers damage, and front or back is determined by the shot's position in relation to the center point of the sphere. Which is another place where damage can get 'lost.' The Gauss Rifle's projectile is fast enough that you can hit a target, get the 'hit' animation, but register no damage because it passed through the bounding sphere too quickly. Of course, you could also shoot something in the front with a Gauss Rifle and have the shot hit them in the back, too. That can be a real problem for you, the player, once you start using bigger mechs with bigger bounding spheres. You can actually turn the bounding spheres on with a cheat code, too; so you can see where a mech tracks damage and where they don't. Some of the choices are pretty fascinating. There are some mechs that are nearly impossible to shoot in the head because the head bounding sphere is so deeply buried in the torso sphere. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Mar 9, 2024 |
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Mar 9, 2024 17:41
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PoptartsNinja posted:Fun info Ha thanks for the extra details..that's some fascinating stuff/bugs! We're entering heavier mech territory soon, and I already recorded the next 2 missions so I doubt the Storm Crow will see much use, but I'll keep it in mind. Regarding hitboxes, I always felt the Nova to be pretty sturdy, maybe because it's prett low and the legs/arms/torso are all lined up, so damage gets spread more evenly? It's a mech I often used in earlier runs, also because you can give it a pretty fast engine. A bug (?) I encountered in the upcoming video which you might already know about, is that I put all machine gun ammo on my arms and then lost my arms (and the amount of rounds in the interface vanished) but my guns were still firing..that seemed impossible to me. Anyhow, you'll see it soon, uploading next vid tonight.
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Mar 9, 2024 18:09
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Yeah, that's a fun one. The game tracks ammo ticking down to show when it's out, so it's the 1-0 transition that actually tells it you're out of ammo. When your ammo gets destroyed, it gets set straight to 0 and the ammo can break in the same way heat sinks can and starts counting into the negatives.
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Mar 9, 2024 18:36
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PoptartsNinja posted:Yeah, that's a fun one. The game tracks ammo ticking down to show when it's out, so it's the 1-0 transition that actually tells it you're out of ammo. When your ammo gets destroyed, it gets set straight to 0 and the ammo can break in the same way heat sinks can and starts counting into the negatives. Lol well that saved my rear end, and I was already on the third try..o well!
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Mar 9, 2024 18:59
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New vid! A pretty short one, even though we do two missions..but the first one is a trial that's pretty short. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13iO8ymp7KI
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Mar 10, 2024 08:25
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Yup, you were firing when you lost your ammo storage; so the game set your ammo to zero while the counter was ticking down, it rolled negative, and gave you unlimited ammo. That's pretty funny. Weapons don't have any built-in ammo.
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Mar 10, 2024 09:16
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PoptartsNinja posted:Yup, you were firing when you lost your ammo storage; so the game set your ammo to zero while the counter was ticking down, it rolled negative, and gave you unlimited ammo. Yeah now it feels like I cheated my way through that one  Well the next two missions I just finished, and those were pretty intense..got 'em on the first try, will upload later today
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Mar 10, 2024 09:22
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I want to say that the game only disables your guns when you specifically fire your last bullet and losing your ammo by any other means results in infinite ammo, but now that I'm looking I can't find where I read that. Maybe I'm misremembering, but it would certainly explain what happened in that last mission if it's true.
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Mar 10, 2024 11:19
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Got a new double mission update: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h0-yhnvdR4 Skip the video description for minor spoilers, both missions were pretty cool
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Mar 10, 2024 18:59
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And another two missions..a trial and the mission Plum Wine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnL9okqdCoU Second one gave me some trouble cause I read the mission briefing wrong and thought I had to find a certain car by inspecting the contents of them..and then the mission constantly failed 'cause the high command escaped in the car. Turns out you just have to blow up all the cars!
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Mar 11, 2024 21:59
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Obviously I don't know for sure, since I'm not the player (and it doesn't seem to even tell you about it), but your attack dog might've stopped attacking because he ran out of ammo for his LRM. Anyway, just as a reminder: There is a "no duplicate weapons" build waiting to be shown; unless you mention that build failing, I will continue to remind you about it.
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Mar 12, 2024 04:12
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CptWedgie posted:Obviously I don't know for sure, since I'm not the player (and it doesn't seem to even tell you about it), but your attack dog might've stopped attacking because he ran out of ammo for his LRM. Oh! I completely forgot, thanks for the reminder. Next mission I'll give it a try
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Mar 12, 2024 07:33
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We're getting closer to the end..three missions for the price of one! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YH-_093mwU I picked some people from the thread to take with me on the mission, sadly one of you guys didn't make it.. Also, the glorious 'lots of weapons slapped on a mech' actually finishes a mission!
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Mar 13, 2024 23:05
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...Really? Falcon campaign throws that sort of utter BS at you, and they dare to complain about you failing an impossible task?! I can understand the core concept, but they're going way too far with it. ...Now watch, the last trial is gonna put you in a Firemoth and force you to kill a Dire Wolf. Because that's basically the only way to escalate the discrepancy at this point. On the bright side, putting me in the MLas build makes sense after how much I've gone on about preferring them. (And me getting shot down also makes sense because I've said before that I was never any good at this game...)
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Mar 14, 2024 05:24
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Hahahaha. The trial with the Kit Fox is just particularly rough, because the Small Pulse Laser only does 3 damage and the ER Large Laser is bugged and only does 3 damage, autocannons deplete their ammo in about 3 seconds, and the streak SRM doesn't really carry you. Edit: And the Nova and Timber Wolf are the same speed by default, so if the Timber Wolf's too slow the Nova's not going to be any better. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 05:53 on Mar 14, 2024 |
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Mar 14, 2024 05:36
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PoptartsNinja posted:The trial with the Kit Fox is just particularly rough, because the Small Pulse Laser only does 3 damage and the ER Large Laser is bugged and only does 3 damage, autocannons deplete their ammo in about 3 seconds, and the streak SRM doesn't really carry you.
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Mar 14, 2024 06:56
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I can forgive a somewhat unfair trial (just killing one mech isn't that hard after all) but the real BS was the last mission. They give you a huge base to defend, with a large tower on the edge of it that catches PPCs and missiles from miles away. Then they throw like five enemy waves at you, so if you fail the mission it's about 10 minutes wasted. And then you've got to instruct two teammates that will either get stuck on geometry or blindly fire at friendly units/buildings as long as it's in the direction of the enemy. Also, yeah the Nova isn't fast by default, but I always boost the engine on custom builds..so in my mind it's a fast mech 
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Mar 14, 2024 07:47
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The trial and that ice (?) planet were rough, but the escort mission didn't seem as BS as our trip to the opera at least?
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Mar 14, 2024 13:30
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Rappaport posted:The trial and that ice (?) planet were rough, but the escort mission didn't seem as BS as our trip to the opera at least? Yeah I was surprised I didn't fail that one, with me slowly trying to catch up..the trial only took 1 retry too. We should be close to the end, wonder if the last mission will be a trial like with the wolf clan..I'm hoping for two more regular missions for the next vid.
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Mar 14, 2024 14:38
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It's the last three missions of the campaign, and we are finished with clan Jade Falcon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0r_0m72JjY These missions were a breeze compared to what came before, and I could actually go full Rambo mode with a machine-gun Dire Wolf..fun times  ..but wait! are we done? No, there's an expansion pack!  I never played the expansion, so I'm curious how it compares to MW2. I read on the wiki that if you don't fail a mission or die, you get an extra 5 missions as challenge or something..we'll see. This expansion pack brings new mechs, I'll have to look up the manual and give a bit of introduction in the next video.
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Mar 14, 2024 22:39
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 Yaaaay, I helped! And  that final trial.There's also the Mercenaries expansion, but I never played either expansion so I can't comment there. Looking forward to Ghost Bear!
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Mar 14, 2024 23:24
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Rappaport posted:There's also the Mercenaries expansion, but I never played either expansion so I can't comment there. Looking forward to Ghost Bear! I did an LP of Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries semi-recently. Ghost Bear's Legacy is better than Mechwarrior 2 (and has one of my favorite video game tracks of all time). ER Large Lasers are still bugged, but they were getting a feel for what the engine could accomplish and the missions are quite varied.
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Mar 15, 2024 00:09
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Vitamin Me posted:It's the last three missions of the campaign, and we are finished with clan Jade Falcon: For the record: in the video's first mission, you were fighting in a domed city. The white lines in the satellite view were the support beams for the dome. You can see them in the skybox in the mission. I played MW2 and the Mercs expansion back when they were new, but I never got GBL. I'm looking forward to it.
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Mar 15, 2024 01:03
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