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AFewBricksShy posted:I'm not very good at poetry meanings, so please forgive me, but Mariko's "A flower is only a flower because it falls" basically means "we treasure flowers because they are temporary, if they lasted forever we wouldn't give a poo poo" right? Not that we wouldn't give a poo poo, just that the knowledge of the flower's inevitable death gives us a deeper, more bittersweet appreciation for its beauty while it lasts. I think Mariko sees herself as a cut flower on display somewhere - basically already dead, but being kept alive for some purpose out of her control. Unlike the flower though, she can choose when she passes from her state of limbo into true death. She's wanted to kill herself for years after she was "plucked" from her family and heritage, but didn't, because she wanted her death to have some meaning or purpose, so that her life would also have meaning and purpose in the eyes of others, and she wouldnt be looked at as just the daughter of a traitor. Choosing when the "flower falls" (when and how you die) is a major preoccupation with the characters in this show, and I suppose samurai/nobility at the time in general. Dying a "good death", or at least by your own hand, is seen as honorable and makes people look at your life positively because it ended within your control, as a result of choices you made up to the final thrust of the knife in a ritual suicide. Dying well means you lived well, but dying randomly (like Toranaga Jr), well that's just embarrassing and kind of makes everything you did before that pointless.
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Apr 19, 2024 17:49
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On a lighter note - the costumes are indeed amazing but I've found myself mostly wondering what it feels like (on a tactile, cloth-on-skin sense) to wear top-quality silk like that. Must feel pretty awesome!
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Apr 19, 2024 17:53
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Mauser posted:Speaking of something from the book that's not in the show, wasn't there a scene where Blackthorn sees someone pooping in the street and a peasant comes by to scoop it up for use as fertilizer? Am I just imagining that? In East Asia use of human feces as fertilizer was and is still common in some places, which is one reason eating uncooked vegetables is uncommon to downright taboo.
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Apr 19, 2024 18:07
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Mauser posted:Speaking of something from the book that's not in the show, wasn't there a scene where Blackthorn sees someone pooping in the street and a peasant comes by to scoop it up for use as fertilizer? Am I just imagining that? Kingdom also had a poop scene.
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Apr 19, 2024 18:08
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Hirsute posted:On a lighter note - the costumes are indeed amazing but I've found myself mostly wondering what it feels like (on a tactile, cloth-on-skin sense) to wear top-quality silk like that. Must feel pretty awesome! I feel like every time I've heard an actor on the show talk about it, the first thing they say is always how insanely heavy the costumes are. They probably do feel nice, but wearing 8 layers for extended periods of time probably cancels that out pretty fast
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Apr 19, 2024 18:09
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Hirsute posted:Not that we wouldn't give a poo poo, just that the knowledge of the flower's inevitable death gives us a deeper, more bittersweet appreciation for its beauty while it lasts. I think Mariko sees herself as a cut flower on display somewhere - basically already dead, but being kept alive for some purpose out of her control. Unlike the flower though, she can choose when she passes from her state of limbo into true death. She's wanted to kill herself for years after she was "plucked" from her family and heritage, but didn't, because she wanted her death to have some meaning or purpose, so that her life would also have meaning and purpose in the eyes of others, and she wouldnt be looked at as just the daughter of a traitor. Fantastic post. In particular, this makes the subplot with the gardener take on even greater significance. For Blackthorne, it's a stupid, meaningless death. But for the gardener, it was a way for him to die a hero in the eyes of his family and friends.
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Apr 19, 2024 18:11
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You think the sun is gonna shine in the final episode?
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Apr 19, 2024 18:12
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Hirsute posted:On a lighter note - the costumes are indeed amazing but I've found myself mostly wondering what it feels like (on a tactile, cloth-on-skin sense) to wear top-quality silk like that. Must feel pretty awesome! A long, long time ago I got to be an extra on a Japanese drama playing a rich white dude doing tea ceremony. I was only in one establishing shot that pans by me before settling on the main actress, but they dressed me up in a real-deal full kimono that took two assistants to wrap me into. Felt good. But also slightly constricting. It makes you think very carefully about moving around and if it's worth the effort.
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Apr 19, 2024 18:18
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The show also went out of its way to add even an additional case study of the big "acceptance of death is a perspective worthy of respect and consideration" theme over the book with hiromatsu. I'm a sucker for a clearly stated coherent theme so props to them for getting it
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Apr 19, 2024 18:21
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Tankbuster posted:Kingdom also had a poop scene. really selling me on Kingdom
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Apr 19, 2024 18:24
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No Mods No Masters posted:I feel like every time I've heard an actor on the show talk about it, the first thing they say is always how insanely heavy the costumes are. They probably do feel nice, but wearing 8 layers for extended periods of time probably cancels that out pretty fast notably, the armour is shockingly lightweight - uncommonly so for productions like this - while the outfits are typically heavier.
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Apr 19, 2024 18:47
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Mauser posted:really selling me on Kingdom where's the TV/IV thread on Kingdom?
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Apr 19, 2024 19:28
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I just realized we're talking about the Korean horror series Kingdom and not another show and hell yeah those hats ruled. I never got to the second season, but I'm sure the hats are great
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Apr 19, 2024 20:44
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Having a guy who's job is to run around the place carrying your proclamations on a big stick must be sick as hell.
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Apr 19, 2024 21:22
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No Mods No Masters posted:The show also went out of its way to add even an additional case study of the big "acceptance of death is a perspective worthy of respect and consideration" theme over the book with hiromatsu. I think they kinda had to when they removed the scene that had Blackthorne learning that.
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Apr 19, 2024 21:35
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Dikkfor posted:Having a guy who's job is to run around the place carrying your proclamations on a big stick must be sick as hell.
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Apr 19, 2024 21:52
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Dikkfor posted:Having a guy who's job is to run around the place carrying your proclamations on a big stick must be sick as hell.
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Apr 19, 2024 23:18
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Can someone somewhat knowledgeable fill me in on what the deal with ninja/shinobi was at the time? Were they skilled mercenaries a lord could hire to do clandestine dirty work or were they a sort of special forces they had in reserve or did both exist? The bandits hired to kill traveling lords are basically thugs but as we see, the shinobi are clearly trained and specialized. How do you become a shinobi? Are there actually “clans”? Or are they just small groups?
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Apr 19, 2024 23:42
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historical ninja were the muscle arm of a couple anarcho-syndicalist communes
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Apr 19, 2024 23:48
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Being a shinobi/ninja is a thing you do. It doesn't define you as much as the way it's portrayed in western media. The metaphor I use it's like being an intelligence officer or a CIA agent or something. It could be a profession for sure but it wasn't, like, a way of life. In fact maybe the most famous ninja, Hattori Hanzo, was samurai. The high end ninja/shinobi were definitely more like specialized mercenaries though for their skills in intelligence gathering and asymmetrical warfare. They tended to organize as "ikki" or collectives. So the Iga Ikki and Koga Ikki are particularly famous, in Japan. Jamwad Hilder fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Apr 19, 2024 |
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Apr 19, 2024 23:50
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Jamwad Hilder posted:In fact maybe the most famous ninja, Hattori Hanzo, was samurai. I mean, if he were actually good at being a ninja, we wouldn't know his name 
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Apr 19, 2024 23:52
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PostNouveau posted:I mean, if he were actually good at being a ninja, we wouldn't know his name Well he was a famous samurai! But also ninja because of his skills for intelligence gathering and clandestine work. It's a fluid label.
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Apr 19, 2024 23:54
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shame on an IGA posted:historical ninja were the muscle arm of a couple anarcho-syndicalist communes
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Apr 19, 2024 23:55
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shame on an IGA posted:historical ninja were the muscle arm of a couple anarcho-syndicalist communes So historically ninjas were even loving cooler than they're shown to be in television and film? 
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Apr 20, 2024 00:05
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"Historical ninja" seems like it's a very ambiguous topic with a lot of active research trying to pry apart what is remotely credible and what is myth. I mean even thread fave steve turnbull confessed as much, I came away from his last book on it suspecting even nominally noncontroversial ninja stuff is probably bullshit (even the free sample section contains a lot of good discussion about it)
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Apr 20, 2024 00:15
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Apr 20, 2024 01:02
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The historical ones were most certainly good at blending in with the locals in various provinces, by picking up on slight differences in dialect/slang, the way people wear their hair in this province, etc. I believe they also joined opposing armies. Both to gather intel and (I believe in one or two instances) start fires inside the opponent’s castle/lines. Like at night, to cause chaos just prior to a general attack. e: I wanted to say also good at disguising themselves as a traveling priest or similar. A sight commonly seen on the roads. MrMojok fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Apr 20, 2024 |
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Apr 20, 2024 01:19
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the only thing you need to know about ninjas is that one of them hid in a toilet and stabbed a dude up the arse when he sat down to take a poo
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Apr 20, 2024 01:21
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LOL, it’s true. Hid in the poo poo for quite a while too, I recall.
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Apr 20, 2024 01:22
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I would not hide in the toilet to stab a guy up the arse. Just stab him the normal way IMO.
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Apr 20, 2024 01:24
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what if your target was constipated. how many days in hiding....
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Apr 20, 2024 01:27
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withak posted:I would not hide in the toilet to stab a guy up the arse. Just stab him the normal way IMO. u probably dont want to know how to channel ur ki into a hadouken either
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Apr 20, 2024 01:28
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withak posted:I would not hide in the toilet to stab a guy up the arse. Just stab him the normal way IMO. And that's why they never responded to the application to Ninja School you made when you were 9 
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Apr 20, 2024 01:36
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Oh no the Shinobyman got into my rear end from the toilet! murder you're family
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Apr 20, 2024 03:23
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God Hole posted:Oh no the Shinobyman got into my rear end from the toilet! I hate it when I get Shinobi'd in the toilet.
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Apr 20, 2024 05:08
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I hope we get some Fuji in the last episode. When they show Mariko with her yari, I couldn't help but think of Sister Friede, but I think that's just because that shot of a woman holding a spear has been used a lot. Though I wonder if she and Ochiba would be considered Onnamusha, we see them practicing and are clearly proficient with the naginatas. Thought thats moot now. Though once they blew the door, whats stopping them from killing Blackthorne and Yabu and the rest? Clearly the orders were to take Mariko alive, not kill her, though what about the rest? Were they told not to kill Blackthorne or the ladies, as that would drat Ishido's position even more, that an entire guest party was murdered by Shinobi while they were under his protection? The other Daimiyo are fully aware that they're prisoners as much as anyone, and now they see he's just a full on tyrant, having nobles murdered at a whim.
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Apr 20, 2024 05:10
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twistedmentat posted:I hope we get some Fuji in the last episode. It's already a huge disaster they killed Mariko. I get the impression Ishido would get murdered by a mob of his own people if he killed everyone in that room.
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Apr 20, 2024 05:20
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Right now they have the barest shred of legitimacy left for Ishido to hide behind; they genuinely did not want to kill Mariko, they made it very obvious they were gonna blow up the door, she stood her own self in front of it and they had no way of stopping her. It's a tremendous bloody nose in the PR department but at least officially, it can be a tragic accident if you want it to be. But only if they don't kill the others.
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Apr 20, 2024 05:31
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they probably all ran off once they saw they killed mariko. no point in hanging out when the alarm has been sounded and the person they were trying to capture alive is very dead
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Apr 20, 2024 05:56
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Hirsute posted:On a lighter note - the costumes are indeed amazing but I've found myself mostly wondering what it feels like (on a tactile, cloth-on-skin sense) to wear top-quality silk like that. Must feel pretty awesome! I once had some silk boxers and they felt really good. Distractingly good.
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Apr 20, 2024 07:43
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