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nine-gear crow posted:lol Yabu's death poem was basically "gently caress my life. God drat it. poo poo." Yeah, i think it's a lot better context than the ending paragraph of the book. Toranaga explaining himself to someone he's about to kill is exactly him, and works pretty well.
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Apr 23, 2024 16:44
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It's hilarious that Yabu was all "her poem sucked, why would you write about a leafless branch when it is currently spring?" And then his poem is just "I hope a dog eats me"
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Apr 23, 2024 16:51
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Cojawfee posted:It's hilarious that Yabu was all "her poem sucked, why would you write about a leafless branch when it is currently spring?" And then his poem is just "I hope a dog eats me" Yabu is just such a beautiful portrait of "Guy Who Does Not, In Fact, Have This poo poo". 
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Apr 23, 2024 16:56
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And he finally died on a cliff.
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Apr 23, 2024 16:57
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I also appreciate that at the end of the show we got Blackthorne graduating from "the Japans" all the way up to "the Japan-ees"
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Apr 23, 2024 17:13
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An interesting production I'd like to see is more of the "Asian Saga" done with many of the same cast members and the same producers. Is there any other production that has done something like this?
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Apr 23, 2024 17:15
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American Horror Story is more or less like this. Same creative team and a rotating cast of actors who pop back up sometimes as the same characters and as a new characters. I think in this case you might run more afoul of later books not always focusing on Japan necessarily. The next book chronologically that more or less actually kicks off the main through-line of the "Asian Saga" is about Hong Kong. And with their faithfulness, I'm sure they would target actors from mainland China and Hong Kong next time. I've not read Tai-Pan, so I'm not sure there's a role for Tony Leung, but he seems like he might be of the same caliber for that type of role in a second season. As far as bringing this cast back, I could see this potentially working for some of the later books though that return to Japan. Teek fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Apr 23, 2024 |
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Apr 23, 2024 17:18
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mcmagic posted:So are we ever clear on why it's implied that Ochiba hates Toranaga so much? So in the book at least, it is explicitly stated that Ochiba went and hosed some random peasant guy to get pregnant and present the child as the Taiko's since he shot blanks. Toranaga found her in the woods right after, and it's unclear from Ochiba's perspective if Toranaga knew what she was up to, but a lot of her enmity towards Toranaga seems to come from the danger of him being the only one who knows her secret, so she wants him dead to make sure the heir's legitimacy never gets questioned. Also, the show was more ambiguous but in the book she's as astute a student of the wind as Toranaga, and her betraying Ishido by not allowing him to carry the heir's banner stems from her seeing that Toranaga is going to be a stronger ally for her and her son, rather than some loyalty to Mariko. Doesn't quite work out though, as others have pointed out.
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Apr 23, 2024 17:20
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No Mods No Masters posted:Episode 7 suffers even more as the clear worst one by far with show wide hindsight because both the time spent developing toranaga's brother and the subplot with kiku's owner establishing the yoshiwara district don't really end up achieving much. That time could have been very productively used on other things I don't want to come across as Mr. Show Defender as I do agree things definitely slowed down to an extent that I think hurt the overall flow from episode 6-8 but I really liked the slight side plot of establishing a new district by Gin. Her scene with Toranaga I felt helped further expand Toranaga as a character. It felt like they were giving you a look into how he deals with others who aren't just his direct contacts in higher power. I won't disagree the brother subplot felt a bit light but Gin and Kiku, I really dug.
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Apr 23, 2024 18:08
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snoremac posted:I wouldn't mind an effortpost on how exactly Mariko swung Ochiba to Toranaga's side and how Yabu's betrayal plays into this. Yabu's betrayal is the backdrop necessary for everything. Think back to the start of the show: Toranaga and the Taiko discuss what if the Taiko appointed Toranaga as regent. Toranaga, smartly, says that being appointed as regent was a surefire way of getting all his enemies to unite against him. Hence the council of regents. Of course, the council itself wasn't enought: Ishido is able to manipulate the council against Toranaga precisely by claiming that Toranaga, as the most powerful regent, was seeking to keep power for himself. That is how he gets the other regents on his side. Ishido even uses the threat of Toranaga to take hostages: he argues that Toranaga is intent on killing the heir, hence everyone needs to be close by for protection. So Yabu's betrayal is about convincing everyone in the council that Toranaga is defeated. He is so defeated that one of his biggest vassals feels confident enough to go before Ishido and offer his services, and later on even take on the kidnapping of Mariko. Because if Ishido is doing all of this against a clearly defeated foe, maybe Ishido is the one with the designs on power and taking over from the heir and all that jazz. Toranaga goes from the big bad wolf at the door to the poor, frail, defeated lord facing great injustice
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Apr 23, 2024 18:24
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Trudis posted:So in the book at least, it is explicitly stated that Ochiba went and hosed some random peasant guy to get pregnant and present the child as the Taiko's since he shot blanks. Toranaga found her in the woods right after, and it's unclear from Ochiba's perspective if Toranaga knew what she was up to, but a lot of her enmity towards Toranaga seems to come from the danger of him being the only one who knows her secret, so she wants him dead to make sure the heir's legitimacy never gets questioned. I think that Ochiba also saw that Ishido was a poo poo leader/idiot whe he completely hosed up every interaction with Mariko, plus his dipshits killed her childhood friend. Ochiba saw that the Regents were conflicted, corrupted, or an actor  I think that she saw the writing on the wall - get on Toranaga's good side now, or be under his thumb/sword later
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Apr 23, 2024 18:25
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Vampire Panties posted:I think that Ochiba also saw that Ishido was a poo poo leader/idiot whe he completely hosed up every interaction with Mariko, plus his dipshits killed her childhood friend. Ochiba saw that the Regents were conflicted, corrupted, or an actor Yeah, Ochiba was definitely like "I can use this guy for all he's worth  ... Oh poo poo, no I can't  "
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Apr 23, 2024 19:12
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Teek posted:Can't wait for Shogun 2: Shogun Harder. I wouldn't mind a 2 or 3 part miniseries covering the battle of Sekigahara, with the Shogun cast in reduced roles, and an ensemble of new characters we follow through the event. Battle Epics are cool. We don't get enough of them.
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Apr 23, 2024 21:27
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Started watching this, since I was waiting for it to end so I could binge it. The cinematography & costumes are incredible!
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Apr 23, 2024 21:27
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Babe Magnet posted:It also dawned on me during the credits that he tossed the necklace into the sea. he was only dreaming of growing old in england, my man's never leaving that island This is made more clear during his seppuku-time with Toranaga. He looks to the side and hears a harsh wind blowing, and it flashes to his old man face, and then he (with difficulty) turns his head back, 'giving up' the idea of living to a ripe old age, and committing himself to this sacrifice.
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Apr 23, 2024 21:29
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mcmagic posted:So are we ever clear on why it's implied that Ochiba hates Toranaga so much? Well I mean, her tiny child is the rightful heir and the other dude wants to be shogun. Historically it played out pretty much as you'd expect. edit: welp this was covered on a page I didn't see Dante fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Apr 23, 2024 |
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Apr 23, 2024 22:07
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Show rocked. Slightly edged out by Fargo for me as the best tv of the year, but I do think it's more of an accomplishment. Hard to balance good storytelling with history and foreign world's in historical drama's, but this show does it beautifully. Story tell's a large scale event, but never loses it's focus on it's core cast - and they're all so entertaining and well fleshed out. Hope it leads to more shows like it.
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Apr 23, 2024 22:11
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Out of the whole show the one big mystery for me is, what exactly was the plan for that bird that Anjin left to air dry? lol that British Cuisine is so loving bad that it killed people without eating it
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Apr 23, 2024 22:32
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What a great show this was. I think the only way I can get a similar fix after this is to rewatch Rome.
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Apr 23, 2024 23:01
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I've been rewatching Deadwood pretty much because it's the only other show I could think of with such incredible attention to sets and costumes and also because it's a loving amazing show (also like Shogun!)
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Apr 23, 2024 23:04
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So I loved this show but also know gently caress all about Japanese history. Is there a decent source other than Wikipedia to read up on the basics of this period?
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Apr 23, 2024 23:24
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Zero VGS posted:Out of the whole show the one big mystery for me is, what exactly was the plan for that bird that Anjin left to air dry? lol that British Cuisine is so loving bad that it killed people without eating it Americans do it too: https://www.gundogmag.com/editorial/why-you-should-age-game-birds/462439 e: Goons too: https://forums.somethingawful.com/s...t#post445515802 Mantle fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Apr 23, 2024 |
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Apr 23, 2024 23:37
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I find there are not really as many great books about the sengoku period in english as anyone might hope but here are some starters. Steven turnbull has written a gently caress ton of short books about all kinds of medieval japan military history topics, here's a survey one to start but see if any of his others interest you more https://www.amazon.com/War-Japan-1467-1615-Essential-Histories/dp/1472851188/ This is just a random recommendo I read on a whim but this is a decent longer book that tells the sengoku story through the lens of the three unifiers https://www.amazon.com/Sengoku-Jidai-Nobunaga-Hideyoshi-Ieyasu-ebook/dp/B078X3MVBL/ Or just read an actual university level history book, this one starts with the lead up to sekigahara and goes up to the modern day https://www.amazon.com/Making-Modern-Japan-Marius-Jansen/dp/0674009916/
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Apr 23, 2024 23:39
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‘A History of Japan’ by Richard Mason gives a broad overview and covers a lot of cultural history so it isn’t just a list of battles and big names.
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Apr 23, 2024 23:51
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Cojawfee posted:It's hilarious that Yabu was all "her poem sucked, why would you write about a leafless branch when it is currently spring?" And then his poem is just "I hope a dog eats me" What's even better is in the book, Yabu's death poem and seppuku were considered perfection by those that witnessed them. People in his family still honored him for both by the time of the last book of the series, 400 years later.
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Apr 24, 2024 00:36
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Cojawfee posted:It's hilarious that Yabu was all "her poem sucked, why would you write about a leafless branch when it is currently spring?" And then his poem is just "I hope a dog eats me" Here we thought all along he was Mac playing both sides so he always comes out on top, when in the reality he was actually Frank.
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Apr 24, 2024 02:20
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Okay finished the last episode. This mini-series was awesome as gently caress. So amazing, and I want to read the book now. I am sad this show is over now, I badly want more. 
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Apr 24, 2024 02:44
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Pretty good finale to a pretty good series overall. The finale and ladies of the willow world were probably the best two episodes.
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Apr 24, 2024 02:54
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gosh what a lovely finale. Blackthorne and Fuji consigning the remains of their loved ones to the sea -- incredible. Japan is an island, so really neither of them will ever be too far away. but they can move on, and it's really affecting to see them do so, in their own ways.
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Apr 24, 2024 03:09
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I hope someone 2007s that ending.
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Apr 24, 2024 03:11
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The reveal that the spy in the village spoke English and Blackthorne's reaction to it was pretty fantastic. Solid ending. Good show. Episodes 7 and 8 were a little weak compared to the rest but I am satisfied with the show as a whole. Back half could have used more Fuji-sama, but at least we got a few great moments in the last episode.
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Apr 24, 2024 03:18
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Quinton posted:
We always have the "I'm your huckleberry" scene though
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Apr 24, 2024 03:20
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Zero VGS posted:Out of the whole show the one big mystery for me is, what exactly was the plan for that bird that Anjin left to air dry? lol that British Cuisine is so loving bad that it killed people without eating it Like the rabbit stew no one wanted, he was gonna make horrific British monstrosity with it
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Apr 24, 2024 03:21
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I assume that he had seen someone do it, but had no idea how to age it himself.
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Apr 24, 2024 03:25
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Mantle posted:An interesting production I'd like to see is more of the "Asian Saga" done with many of the same cast members and the same producers. Is there any other production that has done something like this? That was the original idea and part of the press release when FX announced Shogun 6- 7 years ago. Covid changed a lot and scared back the scope to just Shogun but the runaway success could loosen the purse strings to back to the idea.
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Apr 24, 2024 03:35
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What a great fuckin show. Some legit feels that last episode.
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Apr 24, 2024 03:38
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Great show. I liked the sort of melancholy calmness of the last episode rather than a half hour of noise and quick cuts and digital blood splatter. I'm surprised episode 9 isn't getting more praise though, that was so tense from beginning to end and definitely my favorite one. They had so many years to spend making this miniseries, I hope they don't try to crank out a season two in like 11 months or something. There's no way it could compare.
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Apr 24, 2024 03:55
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My quick look at reaction videos and, my god, media literacy is dead. Of course every single one is irked at no battle. But also, they are confused about the flash-forwards, forgetting that the episode title is Dream of a Dream. "Oh, Blackthorne converted to Catholicism?!" When they see him holding the rosary/cross. Yeesh.
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Apr 24, 2024 04:16
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Nice Tuckpointing! posted:My quick look at reaction videos and, my god, media literacy is dead. I don't usually watch reaction videos other than like 3 people. But i watched a guy out of curiosity today and even at the finale episode he said something about mariko and the spy learning english from the portuguese. I turned it off immediately. I might miss a few things here and there, but drat.
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Apr 24, 2024 04:25
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Great ride from beginning to end although it might just be the worst thread title of all time since it was nothing but politics driving the plot.
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Apr 24, 2024 04:28
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