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Morrow posted:Buntaro goes on to keep serving for like another 45 years, fights at Sekigahara, and dies at the age of 82. 
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Apr 25, 2024 02:35
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Well, he's mostly correct. He did live into his late 70s, but the guy Buntaro was based on was already in his 50s at the time this show is set. Kind of ambiguous about how old he is in the show, but he seems to be portrayed as late 30s/early 40s.
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Apr 25, 2024 02:38
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Seluin posted:Any recommendations on good documentaries/dramas about Tokugawa?* His life sounds fascinating. Watch Kagemusha and go in blind if at all possible. I just fortunately stumbled across it on TCM one night and spent three hours alternating between "what the hell is this?" and "Who the hell paid for all this??" shame on an IGA fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Apr 25, 2024 |
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Apr 25, 2024 02:44
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Arglebargle III posted:One thing other posters in the thread brought to my attention is that this kid is the son of a peasant who everyone agreed was a great right-hand-man to his noble leader. A leader who couldn't be shogun because he was a peasant. So they invented a new title for him and now the kid is... what exactly? There's no precedent for this title being passed down. There was no precident for the title of Shogun being passed down until somebody decided to make that happen at a time nobody was willing or able to do anything about it. It was originally something akin to the Roman Dictator, a temporary office at the behest of the Emperor when the Emperor had true political and military power. Shogun as a dynastic head of government only happened in the wake of a gigantic civil war that saw the Emperor relegated to a figurehead. That was also when Samurai as a hereditary warrior caste became a thing by the by
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Apr 25, 2024 03:21
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Vampire Panties posted:Yabu's ending was perfect. Bring in Radriguez the guyliner pilot instead. The show can have a sideplot of them teaching Buntaro portuguese swear words I'm mildly disappointed that Yabu didn't get cannoned do death purely because Toranaga wanted to spite him. That would have been the perfect end for him. It's also a shame that Rodrigues just kind of disappears from the plot too. Dude was all over the 80s series on account of being played by John Rhys-Davies at the height of popularity and here he just kinda blips after episode 3. Why cast someone like Nestor Carbonell if you're just gonna waste him like that?
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Apr 25, 2024 03:40
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nine-gear crow posted:It's also a shame that Rodrigues just kind of disappears from the plot too. Dude was all over the 80s series on account of being played by John Rhys-Davies at the height of popularity and here he just kinda blips after episode 3. Why cast someone like Nestor Carbonell if you're just gonna waste him like that? Well he's not particularly relevant to the plot beyond the first few episodes. It's not as well covered in the show, but in the book he's named the next captain of The Black Ship (the main trade ship between Portugal-Japan) and so he's busy doing that stuff, presumably. I think he meets up with Blackthorne maybe once after the escape from Osaka and it wasn't really something that you need to see in the show.
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Apr 25, 2024 03:50
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Morrow posted:Omi will fall out of disfavor at some point and be exiled from court. Apparently Tokugawa's eldest daughter got mad at him for displacing some daimyo she liked on his rise through the ranks, so she accused him of plotting an Agent 47-rear end assassination of Tokugawa's son, the current shogun, by dropping a suspended ceiling on him. Thus he got the boot. There was not a suspended ceiling in the room the son was staying in. This is all from Wikipedia so I dunno anything about actual primary sources but lol
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Apr 25, 2024 03:58
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Morrow posted:Yabushige's equivalent survived, but got lost on the way to the battle of Sekigahara and showed up late. He continued to be a senior official of the shogunate and died shortly after Tokugawa. I love this so much. It's so stupid, but so very perfect.
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Apr 25, 2024 04:11
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Zanna posted:Also, to be fair to Honda Masanobu, the guy Yabushige is loosely based on, the delay he had getting to Sekigahara was because he was with Tokugawa Hidetada, Ieyasu's heir, who decided to try to besiege a castle his dad had failed to capture fifteen years earlier, so it's more one of Ieyasu's failsons (who still got to be Shogun, and a pretty effective one at that) than any fault of his own, outside of being unable to convince Hidetada to go with the original plan of leaving behind a screening force while they hurried along to Sekigahara. While getting lost is funny, picturing Yabu trying to talk him out of it before falling into exasperated sighs and grunts is just as good
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Apr 25, 2024 04:32
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I always found it amusing that the Spanish and Portuguese had a head start in their colonization and trade empires, but their insistence on converting everyone to Catholicism tended to make things harder than it was for the later French and English. Especially when you had cultures that were not devastated by disease and were able to mount successful resistance to their influence. Though I admit I don't know much about Philippine history to know how they held onto it so long with it being on the other side of the world.
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Apr 25, 2024 04:50
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I never do this, but I just started rewatching and holy gently caress that the first scene is a westerner commiting their own twisted version of seppuku
Chadzok fucked around with this message at 11:43 on Apr 25, 2024 |
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Apr 25, 2024 10:13
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While I really liked Toranaga giving the big inner monologue speech to Yabu - and liked this take on Yabu full stop - much more than the original mini-series, overall I much preferred Yabu's death in the other one. Cussing everyone out, telling them all the Anjin is the only worthy person here and this is how a real samurai dies was more fun and felt way more Yabu to me than how they handled him here. I also missed the lack of Rodrigues, and also the whole sub-plot with the Japanese Jesuit who returns to the fold but I guess Toranaga's spy kind of filled that role. Finally, the original series also had a sweet wrap up for Kiku and Omi that we didn't get here alas. But those quibbles aside, yeah, this was an excellent finale and adaptation overall.
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Apr 25, 2024 10:33
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Sentinel Red posted:While I really liked Toranaga giving the big inner monologue speech to Yabu - and liked this take on Yabu full stop - much more than the original mini-series, overall I much preferred Yabu's death in the other one. Cussing everyone out, telling them all the Anjin is the only worthy person here and this is how a real samurai dies was more fun and felt way more Yabu to me than how they handled him here. I also missed the lack of Rodrigues, and also the whole sub-plot with the Japanese Jesuit who returns to the fold but I guess Toranaga's spy kind of filled that role. Finally, the original series also had a sweet wrap up for Kiku and Omi that we didn't get here alas. Yeah Yabu bragging to Blackthorne that this is how a real samurai dies is something we missed. A lot of the best material in the book is stuff around Blackthorne and i think the series pushed the adaptation away from him, a bit to a fault. In the book, the ep6-8 slog was no big deal because there was a lot of development of Blackthorne there but most of his good stuff got removed or reworked and put somwhere else, and i'm not sure it's for the better. I also feel like Omi and Kiku's plot line made no sense if they weren't going to have Blackthorne befriend Omi by giving him Kiku's contract. If that's not going to happen, cut the thing entirely, imo.
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Apr 25, 2024 10:56
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Chadzok posted:I never do his, but I just started rewatching and holy gently caress that the first scene is a westerner commiting their own twisted version of seppuku Blackthorne going from pure contempt for suicide as the coward's way out to lamenting but being willing to help a friend end their life to ultimately being prepared to kill himself for what he considers a worthy cause was really, really well handled I thought.
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Apr 25, 2024 11:15
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Is…is there any more?  I want more Shogun. I need more Shogun.
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Apr 25, 2024 11:54
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toggle posted:Is…is there any more? Scorcese's Silence seems like it can basically serve as a straight-up sequel (also based on a book and takes place shortly after these events), I have it queued up to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N680Zn-wg0
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Apr 25, 2024 12:20
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Silence is great and has a character of different background and qualities than Yabu but who is also a funny betrayal guy.
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Apr 25, 2024 12:47
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nine-gear crow posted:Dude was all over the 80s series on account of being played by John Rhys-Davies at the height of popularity and here he just kinda blips after episode 3. Other way around, actually. Shogun was his first big role outside the UK and it's what got him cast in Raiders of the Lost Ark.
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Apr 25, 2024 15:49
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I always remember him in Ivanhoe. He's dead and one of his buddies says "a fune addition to Satan's kingdom".
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Apr 25, 2024 16:03
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Silence has a very different mood from Shogun, going from Clavell kind of being dismissive of religion to Endo being very interrogative about it.
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Apr 25, 2024 16:11
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Panzeh posted:Silence has a very different mood from Shogun, going from Clavell kind of being dismissive of religion to Endo being very interrogative about it. If it still has Jesuits getting owned then I'm down. edit: Oh hell yeah the first-billed Japanese guy in the cast of Silence is the Yabu actor lol Zero VGS fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Apr 25, 2024 |
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Apr 25, 2024 16:20
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McNally posted:Other way around, actually. Shogun was his first big role outside the UK and it's what got him cast in Raiders of the Lost Ark. Ah, I thought it was the other way around.
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Apr 25, 2024 16:38
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Shogun 2: Imperial restoration when?
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Apr 25, 2024 17:03
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Pray for never, Clavell's book about that was one of his worst and written when he was dying of cancer. One of the main characters is nicknamed Angel Tits.
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Apr 25, 2024 17:29
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Weird coincidence, that's exactly what they call me at work.
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Apr 25, 2024 17:33
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Pray for never, Clavell's book about that was one of his worst and written when he was dying of cancer. lmao what.
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Apr 25, 2024 17:41
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Pray for never, Clavell's book about that was one of his worst and written when he was dying of cancer. Yeah, Gaijin is not a very good book, i think an adaptation would have to be super different.
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Apr 25, 2024 17:49
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I feel dumb but I didn't realize that Old Blackthorne was a hallucination/Dream. I did quite like him telling to keep what he was actually saying to everyone while pulling the ship out of the water between him and the interpreter/spy/samurai guy.
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Apr 25, 2024 17:58
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Needed more muraji scenes imo
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Apr 25, 2024 18:09
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Mauser posted:Needed more muraji scenes imo Muraji rocked, love how when Toranaga tells him to drop the act he immediately straightens up and busts out legit good English/Portuguese
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Apr 25, 2024 18:52
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you know who else was pretty great was Alvaro. Interesting how they just made him a straightforwardly decent dude. poor guy was heartbroken telling Blackthorne about Mariko's deal at the docks.
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Apr 25, 2024 18:56
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I hope Blackthorne and Muraji became besties once they were free to speak in a language they both understood.
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Apr 25, 2024 19:03
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Pattonesque posted:Muraji rocked, love how when Toranaga tells him to drop the act he immediately straightens up and busts out legit good English/Portuguese Muraji's cool because he's merged with a book/1980 show character who's basically a samurai apostate who joins Blackthorne as one of his personal guard once he becomes hatamoto(they don't do this for him in this series).
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Apr 25, 2024 19:08
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Gaijin was a problematic book but I thought it had good suspense and scheming. But yeah that one main thing kind of ruins the rest also
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Apr 25, 2024 21:09
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As someone who’s read a single Japanese history book — I think it was A Modern History of Japan — and spent hundreds of hours on Wikipedia articles of Japanese history, this show was a treat. The craft, the production and the writing. It’s been a pretty good year of television but this is absolutely the cream of the crop. My favorite scenes are any of the ones involving translation. Scenes involving translators are usually a real drag in other shows but here they make them little delightful puzzles. Every line of Mariko’s interpretation is so intentional. This is from almost a month ago — before the show ended — but it’s still a good watch. https://youtu.be/QGh1JRJXehg
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Apr 25, 2024 21:14
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The show makes interpretation scenes so good because the showrunners are skilled and confident enough to give us two conversations at once and make both meaningful. https://twitter.com/DaveMcNamee3000/status/1780980709878120876
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Apr 25, 2024 22:06
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Shame that scene got cut. I'm not kidding, there's a scene when the Daimyo's troops are escorting Blackthorne to Father Alvito he realizes how hungry he is and gorges on shrimp sold by street vendor. Then he turns to the lead officer escorting him and says " I was just being held in confinement, obviously I don't have any money.'
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Apr 25, 2024 22:33
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Morrow posted:The show makes interpretation scenes so good because the showrunners are skilled and confident enough to give us two conversations at once and make both meaningful. https://twitter.com/BittrScrptReadr/status/1781136015954162014
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Apr 26, 2024 01:41
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It was a great show but just loving leave it there. No season 2.
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Apr 26, 2024 01:47
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I wouldn't mind S2 if they make it an anthology series with entirely different story and cast for each season.
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Apr 26, 2024 02:37
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