Shogun - Show Gone - The Something Awful Forums

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Shogun - Show Gone

Shishkahuben: Mar 5, 2009

Sanguinia posted:

Have not read the book, but I've been looking forward to this since the first trailer, and first episode was a triumph. Can't wait to get home and watch the second.

Opening the story on the Dutch captain giving a flowery speech on the sweet release of suicide, which Blackthorne tells him to his face is the coward's way out, was a great contrast with our protagonist's reaction to Yabu's willingness to take his own life rather than let the sea take him. He can't reconcile his view on killing yourself with the physical courage Yabu displayed crawling down that cliff to save the Spaniard's life, and when he tries it rings so hollow the Spaniard can't help but mock him. There's a clear ideological clash between the acceptance of destiny and self-determination running as a thematic thread throughout the episode, with Blackthorne representing an extreme embrace of the idea that he makes his own fate through hard work and determination. Each of the Japanese characters navigates the dichotomy in a different way, but they navigate it, and given the Rodriguez's little speech about Shukumei and the centrality of Christianity to the narrative, I have to assume the ebb and flow between the two is going to be a central theme going forward.

Speaking of Blackthorne and Yabu, the most striking element of the first episode was the parallelism crafted between the two of them. While Blackthorne comes across as an arrogant wanna-be Conquistador from the jump, the story subtly works to dull it a bit through his more admirable traits: concern for his men, the embrace of his responsibility as the new commander, bravery, guile, etc. By contrast, Yabu's negative traits are emphasized. Before he appears on screen, his nephew's mom notes how he didn't even come for his brother's funeral. He orders that horrific boiling execution, ostensibly because the Portuguese Priest needs to have the blasphemy against his God vindicated, but clearly just because he wants to hear how the man dies for his weird philosophical obsession. Then has a voyeuristic sex romp and chats non-chalantly about the killing over breakfast, even requesting a poem. THEN he outlines his Baby's First Game of Thrones scheme to make himself a warlord once his dumb leader dies. The frame is designed to have us presume Yabu will be a villain for our flawed western antagonist... and then it pulls the rug out from under us a bit and starts to show Yabu's more positive traits. He takes up an oar himself during the storm and follows Blackthorne's orders to help save the ship. He puts himself on the line when he's already on thin ice with his boss to help Blackthorne go after Rodriguez. Then there's everything about the rescue scene, including the fact that he sees through Blackthorne's lame attempts at manipulation but does the right thing anyway. The whole thing crystalizes when Rodriguez reveals that he knows the truth about Blackthorne's mission and Our Hero IMMEDIATELY, and without any hesitation, attempts to murder the guy to protect himself. He and Yabu are cut from the same cloth, warriors in a brutal age who fancy themselves civilized and enlightened, but in reality they are both greedy, self-interested killers. I'll be interesting to see how both evolve over time.

This is a really insightful post! I like the way you think.

Steve Yun posted:

I wonder if Shogun also kicked off the ninja trend in kungfu movies in the 80�s

They�re always the bad guys (China vs Japan) and the trend ran from 1982-the mid 90�s

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zSMOP0W6MEA&pp=ygUWNSBlbGVtZW50IG5pbmphcyB0cmVlcw%3D%3D

Chuck Norris was pretty Blackthorne looking...

# ¿ Mar 5, 2024 01:56

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 9, 2024 12:21

Shishkahuben: Mar 5, 2009

I had the thought that Buntaro being a barely-social troglodyte and rear end in a top hat extraordinaire is linked to his reputation in battle. He doesn't make eye contact and, watching his scenes again, his his eyes are always scanning back and forth, never at rest. I wonder if thats how PTSD symptoms would manifest in a man in his situation?

# ¿ Mar 6, 2024 19:15

Shishkahuben: Mar 5, 2009

Toranaga flopping into the water, poised and majestic, was great lmao

# ¿ Mar 8, 2024 21:37

Shishkahuben: Mar 5, 2009

Hughmoris posted:

I'm only on episode 2 so I'm avoiding the thread for fear of spoilers but I must ask: Should I read the book alongside watching the show, or wait?

And If I should read the book, which one? I'm not familiar at all with the book or series.

Depends if you see this as a good or bad thing

hailthefish posted:

Throughout the thousand page tome that is clavell's Shogun, there's about an entire modest paperback worth of weird horniness that the show has mercifully spared us from.

# ¿ Mar 11, 2024 14:23

Shishkahuben: Mar 5, 2009

CatstropheWaitress posted:

milk dribbling gently caress smear

I saw them live in '07, they opened for the poo poo-Eating Samas. Not bad, cool t-shirt.

HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:

I was really expecting just a few simple things like focusing on repeated drills and maybe firing by rank, but the artillery focus instead was very much appreciated.

That's what I was expecting too - "you're going to drill like Englishmen" or something.

Shishkahuben fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Mar 13, 2024

# ¿ Mar 13, 2024 13:29

Shishkahuben: Mar 5, 2009

Nice Tuckpointing! posted:

Though, I do appreciate the zoom-in at the end. "Are we in some sort of ... Shogun total war?"

lol lmao lol

I've re-watched the scene a few times and I can't tell if Yabu is unconvincingly feigning disbelief or if he's so bewildered that he's nearly unable to get a coherent sentence out. Both would be believable but I can't tell from his reaction if he was in on the plan.

Shishkahuben fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Mar 13, 2024

# ¿ Mar 13, 2024 14:51

Shishkahuben: Mar 5, 2009

The scene with Kiku Lady Macbething Omi makes me wanna re-watch Throne of Blood. Same with the scenes of entire armies arriving in town.

Shogun gives the scenes a cool soundtrack and closeups of people reacting and talking; ToB doesn't, and it really enhances the drama of an occupying force bringing everyday life to a grinding halt.

# ¿ Mar 13, 2024 17:55

Shishkahuben: Mar 5, 2009

grobbo posted:

For all the Game of Thrones comparisons, Shogun is really much closer to The Wire - it's got the constant narcing from all sides, scheming scoundrels who just aren't quite smart enough to come out on top, the intricate social expectations and suffocating codes of conduct within a system that will ultimately devour us all, the focus on translation and communication, the short and dispassionate bursts of violence, the wealthy criminal shipping syndicate led by devious foreigners, and the lead is a drunk-sounding Englishman who thinks the rules shouldn't apply to him and keeps pissing everyone off. It rocks.

Not having seen The Wire, I've basically been comparing everything against Rome. Sounds like the Wire is the next show I'm binging.

# ¿ Mar 16, 2024 15:34

Shishkahuben: Mar 5, 2009

XYZAB posted:

Mariko: You appear to be in good spirits today.
Blackthorne: I got my poo poo sucked crazy style!!!

avatar/post combo

# ¿ Mar 20, 2024 19:52

Shishkahuben: Mar 5, 2009

When drawing the map in episode 2, Blackthorne says the earth is "round, like a fruit" to no reaction from Toranaga or anyone else. The Greeks knew the earth was round since forever, and the Indians too, but did Chinese and Japanese astronomers and mathematicians have comparable knowledge?

I'm curious if that particular claim might have gotten a "yeah no poo poo, where have you been?" or "well that's obvious nonsense, he's lying about the route he took" if that had been the big takeaway (under other circumstances, I mean - "your enemies are conspiring against you" was the more immediate concern)

Shishkahuben fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Mar 28, 2024

# ¿ Mar 28, 2024 20:12

Shishkahuben: Mar 5, 2009

XYZAB posted:

Blackthorne: "The Earth is a 4 corner simultaneous 4 – day time cube, like this. When the Sun shines upon Earth, 2 – major Time points are created on opposite sides of Earth – known as England, which is here, and the Japans, which is here."

Toranaga: "..."

Yabu stewed the wrong barbarian

# ¿ Mar 29, 2024 20:42

Shishkahuben: Mar 5, 2009

When John goes to spar Yabu and holds his sword like a cutlass, is he even doing that right? He clearly had no idea how to wield a katana, but is that ANY kind of proper technique, or is it meant to show that he's a completely untrained swordsman in any country?

# ¿ Apr 5, 2024 18:29

Shishkahuben: Mar 5, 2009

Are there practical or cultural reasons that samurai re-sheath their swords immediately after use? Part of me always wonders how much blood is coating the inside of their scabbards after the lil flick they do. Probably just artistic license, it just stands out a little bit.

Also holy freaking crap this was the best episode yet!

# ¿ Apr 17, 2024 20:52

Shishkahuben: Mar 5, 2009

Yngwie Mangosteen posted:

someone please give me a jacket based on yabu's crow feather armor.

Yabu-patterned jackets would singlehandedly fund seasons 2 and 3 if they sold merch.

# ¿ Apr 18, 2024 15:56

Shishkahuben: Mar 5, 2009

Tainted by the shame
I offer my repentance
Explosion jutsu

# ¿ Apr 23, 2024 00:52

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 9, 2024 12:21

Shishkahuben: Mar 5, 2009

Lmao the hour of silence while everyone watches it immediately

# ¿ Apr 23, 2024 06:09

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Shogun - Show Gone