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Perestroika posted:I gotta echo whoever posted last episode about Ochiba having a noticeably different kind of pronunciation going on. Even across the language barrier, it really does come off as quite a bit more dramatic/villainous. Definite anime villain vibes. Also wondering if they'll eventually reveal the real reason Ochiba hates Toranaga, which I'm not sure even made sense in the book. If Toranaga DID see her he would have surely played that card long before now, although given his reputation I could see her being terrified that him not playing that card just means that he's holding onto it for some reason she can't ascertain. Having never heard of the book before this TV series, I got through maybe two episodes before I decided I needed to obsessively speedread it. And while I'm not regretting that decision, I am now eagerly anticipating seeing them carry off certain scenes.* * "So sorry, I don't believe you." out of left field and the big standoff between the Catholic factions. The show itself is beautiful. I don't have the knowledge to speak to the historical authenticity myself, but it's very clearly a top-notch production value. Since Shogun is being compared to so many preceding series, I'll add one more and say that it reminds me of Band of Brothers in the single aspect that every scene feels like it has a purpose and fills that purpose. Vorenus fucked around with this message at 10:16 on Mar 27, 2024 |
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Mar 27, 2024 10:13
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Sierra Nevadan posted:I'm only 65% through the book, but Ochiba also had a son before the current heir. He got sick and died as a baby during a battle/campaign that Toranaga was leading and Ochiba blamed him for it. Somehow I completely missed that, thanks for explaining. That definitely makes more sense.
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Mar 27, 2024 22:46
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High Warlord Zog posted:From memory isn't book Toranaga the short and fat one I'm not sure about outright fat, but he's definitely described as a bit plump. I much prefer the portrayal in the show, the actor projects an aura of charisma and control.
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Mar 29, 2024 21:30
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I unfortunately had Hiromatsu's death partially spoiled by some prick of a Youtuber who decided to upload a scene with a spoiler title an hour after the episode became publicly available, so that was cool. OTOH, the acting in that scene was absolutely perfect. It really does feel like like two lifelong friends going "Will you please back down you obstinate poo poo", and it takes on a whole new layer with Toranaga's tacit admission to Mariko that he and Hiromatsu pretty much planned the whole thing. I appreciate the acting/writing that humanize Toranaga. IIRC in the books he's cold, calculating and essentially sees his closest retainers as pieces on a game board. In this portrayal, he has the self-control to make necessary sacrifices but you can see the effort it takes him to maintain the facade of defeat and heartless calculation. Definitely an improvement. Nice Tuckpointing! posted:Also, I like the little weebier-than-you moment between Blackthorne and Alvito. No, father, ackshually I was not asking for firewood, ghah! Do you even kno~w the kanji for high-grade charcoal produced from ubame oak? I took that as Alvito hearing him say "I don't want firewood" and making a point to join in with "Oh yeah, my dumbass friend here would LOVE some firewood". Either way it's a good scene, and I like how they portrayed Blackthorne being fairly fluent with one phrase and then completely lost in another conversation. Jerusalem posted:Holy poo poo. I loved Yabu's instant switch from indignation to pure 
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Apr 9, 2024 17:51
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at Yabu unable to hide his beaming smile when Blackthorne was praising him, then realizing Omi is going 
at him, ahaha
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I took the "knew his duty" line as at least both of them knew Toranaga's true intentions and Hiromatsu playing a role to support the surrender ruse. This especially in light of Hiromatsu correctly deducing that Toranaga was sending the priest back to Osaka to tell everyone how submissive and defeated he is. Then again, I could be completely misreading it. I still think there's a lot of emotion in that scene and to me it reads as Toranaga really not wanting things to go this way but at the same time it does serve his purposes. I mean, he's still an rear end in a top hat - he refused Mariko's request for suicide because he still has other uses for her, and he could have ordered Hiromatsu not to commit suicide but it's useful to him so he allows it.
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Apr 9, 2024 19:31
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CapnAndy posted:I never understood why Crimson Sky was a tenable plan in the first place. The entire reason Toranaga thanks Omi for slaughtering those dudes with the cannon was "marching on Osaka would be suicide, but now you've provoked them to march on us, which means we get the defender's advantage and that might be enough", and then the next episode he's like "okay so let's do Plan: March On Osaka, it's our only hope". Crimson Sky was never anything more than an all-out suicide assault. This is part of why all of the generals and retainers are furious - they expected that if Toranaga couldn't pull off a victory, they would at least all die honorably fighting the daimyo who opposed him. Now they're being told to bow meekly to some upstart peasant who happened to be useful to the previous swinging dick of Japan. grobbo posted:
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Apr 11, 2024 02:05
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Goddamn that was brutal but good. No Mods No Masters posted:
Wearing only the best to tell Ishido in the most polite language to shove his bullshit up his peasant rear end. I can't wait for So sorry, I don't believe you.
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Apr 16, 2024 08:02
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Ishido doesn't realize that he's kinda hosed as soon as Mariko enters Osaka. Ochiba tries to tell him he has no good option, so he tries to find his own third option (ninja attack), which horribly backfires, and even if they had captured Mariko, I'm not sure the rest of the court is going to ignore all the testimony from people saying "Yeah, super weird, Ishido said she could leave but then a bunch of assassins conveniently came in the night and spirited her away to who knows where." Also a shoutout to the best burn of the series: "I am not some peasant to be trodden upon." Vorenus fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Apr 16, 2024 |
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Apr 16, 2024 19:51
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Sentinel Red posted:
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Apr 19, 2024 15:16
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Eau de MacGowan posted:book spoilers about next week's episode ALso book spoilers The scene on the beach wasn't in the book, but Yabu 100% made a deal with Ishido to open the side gate and let the ninjas in. This turns out to not be a brilliant political move
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Apr 21, 2024 03:00
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:“toranaga wants the heir to rise to power” is a funny thing to say about the guy that everyone has been warning about wanting ultimate power, is the only one who can become shogun, is based on the founder of the tokugawa shogunate, and is one of the main characters in the show “shogun”. My "I don't want to be shogun" kimono has a lot of people asking questions already answered by my kimono. Toranaga is charismatic and we're meant to root for him but he "doesn't want power" in the same way Caesar merely wanted to uphold his legitimate rights (to do whatever the gently caress he wanted).
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Apr 21, 2024 19:56
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:ochiba should’ve jumped down and did a backflip and killed the samurai to then duel mariko and then she’d say “but mariko i love you” and then mariko would decapitate her and then say “and i love HONOUR, DUTY, AND MY FAMILY!!!!” then she gets hit with an arrow and blackthorne shoots the archer in the head then he jumps down and says “i know” in japanese before shooting ishido like come on seriously where’s the badass action This would only work with Matrix-esque bullet time and Keanu Reeves as Blackthorne.
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Apr 22, 2024 13:36
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