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Mordja
Apr 26, 2014

Hell Gem

Saganlives posted:

What a breath of fresh air after the train wreck that was True Detective S4.
Ah, a fellow refugee.

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Mordja
Apr 26, 2014

Hell Gem
Haven't read the book, but I find it interesting to hear what's changed in the adaptation from fans of it.

Mordja
Apr 26, 2014

Hell Gem

ex post facho posted:

wait did i misunderstand? i didn't think the gardener killed themselves, instead the headman executed him after he touched the pheasant (though he understood doing so meant death and volunteered to move the pheasant anyway)

That was my take too. For one thing I don't know that peasants were even allowed to sudoku. Pheasants, either.

Mordja
Apr 26, 2014

Hell Gem

PostNouveau posted:

Oh, I assumed a lot of that stuff is complete horseshit. The book was written by some white dude in the 1950s, right? Surely they weren't actually murdering infants over matters of honor and other such nonsense.

I mean that part's probably legit. You say you're gonna end your entire line, you gotta end your entire line.

Mordja
Apr 26, 2014

Hell Gem
Man, Japan is just lousy with bandits, huh? :(

Mordja
Apr 26, 2014

Hell Gem
So I guess the Taiko wasn't Taiko for as long as I thought? I figured that Mariko's dad assassinated not-Nobunaga when she was a child, but her and Ochiba were grown-rear end adults when that happened, meaning he could have only been on the throne for, like, a decade before dying of old age.

Mordja
Apr 26, 2014

Hell Gem
It's such a bad look lol. Especially on those guys who don't even shave it fully and have, like, 5-o-clock shadow on their forehead.

Mordja
Apr 26, 2014

Hell Gem
I can't be the only one who thinks Toranaga's failson isn't long for this world, right?

Mordja
Apr 26, 2014

Hell Gem
Saeki may be a scumbag but he is in possession of drip supreme.

Mordja
Apr 26, 2014

Hell Gem

Tankbuster posted:

also 3/5 council daimyo being catholic seems like a much bigger deal than lady mariko's suicidal intent.

Just 2, I thought? The leper and the businessman.

Mordja
Apr 26, 2014

Hell Gem

Dr.Radical posted:

I really appreciate the casting of Father Martin and the other priests. They’re all so loathsome and those horrible haircuts they have is the icing on the cake. The first friar in the fishing village whining in toddler Japanese had me grinding my teeth
I think Martin's supposed to be the only true believer versus the other priests who are only in it for greed/political clout. The show's portrayed him as fairly upstanding.

Mordja
Apr 26, 2014

Hell Gem

HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:

that would be impressive since america isnt a country at this point

Fine, then the USS Nimitz shows up.

Mordja
Apr 26, 2014

Hell Gem
Oh, is MotA bad? I saw it got pretty good reviews, that's about all I know of it.

E: Of course so did Night Country and that was some of the worst dogshit I've watched in years.

Mordja
Apr 26, 2014

Hell Gem
I liked the ending a lot. Some people call it an epilogue, and it kind of is, with the last episode being the real climax. Just and all around stellar show. I do find it funny that they took great pains to properly rename a character and everyone still calls him Yabu.

So is Shogun considered the best of Clavell's books or just the most famous?

Mordja
Apr 26, 2014

Hell Gem
I think Fuji's husband was just a moron. He could have said "my bad "and everyone would have let it slide but no, he had to escalate!

Mordja
Apr 26, 2014

Hell Gem

hailthefish posted:

I don't recall if it's been fully described before, but the way the situation with Fuji's husband plays out in the books is iirc Ishido is making a bunch of weird non-sequitur jokey insults that may or may not apply to blackthorne OR toranaga and Fujiko's husband takes so much offense that he doesn't just call Ishido out for insulting his lord, he draws his sword and starts to take a swing at Ishido before stopping just in time, so he basically a) insulted his lord by assuming the weird insults were about Toranaga AND also b) came perilously close to murdering one of the Regents while acting in the capacity of service to another, which would have started the civil war while Toranaga was still trapped in Osaka castle surrounded by Ishido's men with only a very small personal guard with him, he would have been immediately killed with all of his chief retainers and also a big chunk of his family, so Toranaga goes 'yo this dumbass must have been born samurai by mistake, go kys dipshit, and your idiot child too' and throughout all of this we get Toranaga's internal monologue about what a dangerous situation it was which I agree is slightly less.. weird, while doing a better job of communicating the stakes and the tension of the situation and Toranaga's willingness to be unsentimentally vicious in pursuit of his goals, but it might have been harder to show that in a SHOW without adding a bunch of additional dialogue of Toranaga explaining something to someone who presumably should already know it.

Lol that kind of rocks tho.

Mordja
Apr 26, 2014

Hell Gem
Just found out this is what the old Yabu looked like.

Surprised he isn't a reaction image or something.

Mordja
Apr 26, 2014

Hell Gem

Boris Galerkin posted:

Honestly I would love a 5 hour breakdown podcast/youtube that explains all of these subtle cultural things cause I think they're awesome. I mean maybe not exactly 5 hours but it's something I could spend 1+ hour watching.

Goons mentioned the show had a companion podcast that I assume covers some of what you're wondering about, if that's your sort of thing.

Mordja
Apr 26, 2014

Hell Gem

Perestroika posted:

I mean, he still acted with limited information. Not everyone is Toranaga with the ability to perfectly gauge how everyone will act years down the line. Perhaps he hoped that Buntaro wouldn't be as much of a shitter and could offer Mariko something to live for. Maybe he thought her friendship with Ochiba could help her through. Maybe he had the idea that in the end his act of regicide wouldn't be thought of quite as poorly as it turned out to be. Or maybe he was just a desperate man in an impossible situation who deluded himself into thinking there's a way to safe his daughters life despite what he's about to do.

As it happens, the change to Fuji's eventual fate supports this. She works as an example that even in a circumstance considered very shameful, there is an alternative to suicide that is considered acceptable to both society as well as those affected.
Mariko's dad also thought/hoped that he'd come out on top after assassinating not-Nobunaga, anyway.

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Mordja
Apr 26, 2014

Hell Gem

twistedmentat posted:

I thought Mariko's father killed the Taiko, who was the one who killed the Nobunaga analog and took his place? That he was the one the regents were taking about when they said "Lets not pretend the Taiko was not a horrible person".

Or is the Taiko meant to be Nobunaga?

Also I can totally understand a father loving one of his children so much that he doesn't want them to die, and doing everything to prevent that, even going against cultural norms. Maybe Mariko's father would hope she would understand what he did and not desire to die constantly. Like he could save one person he loved so he did it. I don't think they say what other members of her family there were, but I assume that she had siblings, the boys would be expected to go to their deaths with honour, and probably any sisters would be too young to marry? I dunno, they don't get in it enough to really speculate beyond the most basic thoughts.

No, the Taiko was a different guy who seized power after the assassination, and eventually died of old age, remember? There that flashback of him talking to Toranaga early on in the show.

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