Millennia: "I could wait for Civ 7, but I want a Variant Age instead."

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Jossar: Apr 2, 2018; Current status: Angry about subs

Millennia will be out on March 26th. Pre-purchase it on Steam here:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1268590/Millennia/

Introduction

C Prompt Games is a moderate size studio founded by industry veterans Robert Fermier and Ian M. Fischer, and they're aiming to release Millennia, a historical themed 4X game. This is a category that's pretty heavily dominated by the Civilization series, so any competitor has to work hard in order to distinguish itself from the 800 pound gorilla in the room. Fortunately, Millennia does bring some interesting concepts to the table, although it remains to be seen if those will allow it to stand the test of time.

Basic Mechanics

(To be refined once I've had more time with the game apart from playing the demo at the February NextFest. This OP and any further resource posts are a work in progress!)

Map Overview

Okay, there's a lot going on here, but honestly this is about as clear a presentation as you can get while conveying this much information. Let's try and go through this piece by piece, starting with the capital city of Osaka.

Osaka sits inside a bubble of territorial influence called a Region. This both defines the amount of land belonging to your civilization as well as demarcating the specific set of tiles that can be worked by the city. Regions can be increased in size by accumulating enough Influence, which looks like a crown symbol on the screens where it appears. General Region efficiency can be improved through the addition of extra minor economic hubs, aka Towns as well as via increasing Region level. Towns can also have their own levels increased, which allows them to become more efficient as well as specialize in certain forms of generation which they feed back to either your city or you directly.

Note that while you can settle additional cities (or take control of city states) with their own separate regions, these will start as Vassals or cities with devolved level of control similar to a town, to be integrated later. Only once this is properly achieved will you be able to unlock the full level of production and city control described in the section below.

Most of the way that you construct these kinds of region-level improvements is done through a combination of Culture and Domain powers.

Culture generates points to fill up a bar, at which you pop off slightly different special abilities. These are typically powerful (like creating Settlers to make new Cities or creating Towns), but you only can pop off one at a time and the bar's on hold for future progress until you activate it.

The six Domains generally start out undiscovered with the exception of Government, and you discover them/obtain Domain points by performing their requisite activity or through building infrastructure that generates Domain points. Domain points are then spent to trigger the aforementioned powers. There's another customized level to this that I'll get back to in a little bit.

You can see that Osaka is also surrounded by a number of Resources. From what I've seen so far, Millennia is fairly generous about ensuring that you always have access to building basic stuff no matter what, but Resources are useful because of how they interact with supply chains. To get a better example of how these work, let's zoom in on a different city and look at its chains in action.

City Overview

Berlin here has 12 Population, doing the following activities:

3 Pops are working on a Farm, producing Grain. This by itself produces one Food (food bowl) each.
1 Pop is working at a Mill, taking two of those Grain and converting them into two Flour, each of which gives additional food.
1 Pop is working on a Plantation, producing Food and Saffron, which I believe is producing Wealth.
1 Pop is working in the Mines, producing a good that's either giving localized Production (hammer) or Improvement (shovel) points.
The same is true for the 1 Pop working in the Quarry.
1 Pop is working the Fishing Boats producing Processed Fish. Note that there are three Unprocessed Fish that appear to be collected even though no one is actively working those tiles.
1 Pop is producing a Log at a Forester, which would normally give Production, but...
1 Pop is taking that Log and turning it into Paper at a Papermaker, which would normally give Wealth, but...
1 Pop is taking that Paper and turning it into Poems at the Poets, which give Arts Domain points.
1 Pop is working the Midden to produce Sanitation.
Finally, no one's working anything relating to it, but the city is importing some goods from elsewhere.

These various buildings are all constructed by spending Improvement Points to physically construct the Improvement involved back on the region map. As previously stated, some buildings have effects just by being on the map even when no one is working them. This is particular important for Housing, which you want to build as part of the Needs system. If these Needs are sufficiently satisfied, the city involved becomes more productive. As cities grow in size they start having additional Needs, which can only be accounted for by Buildings and Improvements.

The Needs are as follows:

Food - Always present. Solved as a part of providing the city with Food, which fuels additional Population growth.
Housing - City must be greater than 5 Population.
Sanitation - City must be greater than 10 Population.
Luxury - City must be greater than 15 Population.
Faith - Only relevant if Religious Population exists in your city.
Education -
Power - Not a Population-based need, based on how much Power you're providing relative to Power Drain from Buildings.
Ideology - Appears in Age 8.
Information - Appears in Age 9.

That about covers everything specifically unique to Millennia on this screen. As in other games in the genre, you have your standard city build queue production and an Unrest bar that fills up if people are angry about Needs not being met or overpopulation, or what have you.

National Spirits Overview

As seen before, some of the Domain Powers have subcategories to them. These are National Spirits - customizable Domain trees that you can unlock once every two Ages (except for Age Ten). You also get a couple of Domain points for selecting them, with additional points being added on to the National Spirits that previous people haven't picked. These tend to be more narrowly focused than the general Domain powers listed above, but correspondingly more powerful. Some even focus on more bonuses for things you already have rather than creating a new unit/building.

Government is a little bit different from the other Domains in that it typically doesn't have a National Spirit. Instead, you work to evolve your Government Domain based on your choice of pathways, either through a peaceful or violent revolution depending on whether or not you can be bothered to wait for the power that triggers it to pop up.

Combat Overview

Combat works as follows: Combat is entirely an auto-battle system. Units combine into Army stacks based on a cap you have derived from your technology. More units in a single stack allows you to have more attacks, and provides larger Warfare XP, which units generate while fighting.

Unit types are as follows:

Line Units - Stand in front of your Army and absorb damage/fight in Melee
Cavalry Units - Stand in front, Melee focused, but with different bonuses than Line Units. Typically good against most things except for specifically anti-Cavalry counters.
Ranged Units - Stand in back, can shoot over Walls, usually good against Line Units.
Artillery Units - Stand in back, Highly effective in tearing down defensive structures.
Leaders - Typically upgraded from other troops. Stand in front, melee unit but the big bonus they have is providing a multiplier to the rest of the army based on their Tactics level (or the difference between Tactics levels if there are two opposing leaders).

After units fight a bunch and gain Combat XP, they generate Veterancy levels which provide them with an individual unit combat multiplier.

Warfare XP can be used to heal up units out of combat, spawn additional units, allow units to move/attack multiple times in a turn, and promote units from lower tech levels or to Leaders. Interestingly enough, Leaders can also be retired and turned into Warfare XP.

Defensive structures (like Walls and Towers) appear as units in combat. They don't have specific requirements to tear down, but Walls get in the way of your units attacking units inside of them and can sometimes be very annoying to defeat, especially beyond basic Wooden Palisades. Units hiding behind Walls can still run out and assault the attackers. Towns and Cities will typically spawn Militia units to defend them on their own, thus making relatively empty looking garrisons at least moderately annoying to take down, if not outright difficult.

Tech/Ages Overview

Alright, alright, I've held off on the core gimmick of the game long enough.

Knowledge contributes to your progress in researching techs within a given Age. Each of these individual techs unlocks buildings, units, and miscellaneous bonuses. Research three techs (or four in later parts of the game) and you can move on to the next Age.

But unlike most other games, progression through time is not necessarily constrained to that of our own history. The first person to reach the next Age determines what it will be. There are four types of Age.

Historical Age - Has a set of bonuses/techs to encourage development corresponding to conventional history. Always available.
Variant Age - Has a set of bonuses/techs to encourage development corresponding to an alternate history. This can be as subdued as "everyone's part of the age of discovery, not just a few European powers" or as wacky as "aliens invade". Can be optionally triggered if the tech leader meets the necessary conditions.
Crisis Age - Also has a set of bonuses/tech to encourage development corresponding to an alternate history... but they tend to be kind of a mess. Must be triggered if the tech leader meets the necessary conditions.
Victory Age - Has a set of bonuses/techs to encourage development corresponding to an alternate history... if you don't, y'know, win the game first. Can be optionally triggered if the tech leader meets the necessary conditions. Must be triggered in Age Ten, whose Victory Ages are all counted as a special subset called a Final Age, where the game cannot proceed any further technologically, and someone must win according to the listed conditions or wiping all other players off the map. This little hitch in categorization implies that at some point the devs might add Final Ages that occur prior to Age Ten.

Additionally, on top of the developments triggered by the Ages themselves, several mechanics, the ones not explicitly triggered by city size but not otherwise available at the start of the game (and some that require both!) only unfold as you get to later ages.

This is probably going to be the most unbalanced part of the experience if not handled correctly: the Tech Leader basically gets to drag everybody else along for the ride. There are a few counter-mechanisms in place - anyone can scoop the Victory if they reach the Victory Age and satisfy its conditions before the next Age is reached globally, and in fact the earliest possible Victory Age punishes you if you try to trigger it but screw up the execution. Several of the Crisis Ages are more likely to harm the tech leader than everyone else and I don't think you can chain Variant/Crisis/Victory Ages together (except for Age Ten, obviously) so there is some incentive for the tech leader to let other players take control of the wheel at certain points. But if the tech tree can somehow manage to keep from falling to pieces, it's also what promises to make Millennia a whole lot of fun.

Miscellaneous Overview

Wealth is money. Same as any other 4X game. Use it to buy stuff/purchase units early.
Social Fabrics are a way of further customizing your Nation that unlocks in Age V. They consist of passive bonuses based on the various Domains, and can be generated via Culture Power, maxing out Domain XP for a specific Social Fabric, certain researches, or finishing off the last node of a National Spirit tree.
Innovation and Chaos are the blue and red symbols in the upper right corner of the screen. Depending on certain pressures on your empire, they'll pop off every so often and cause something good/bad to happen.
Religion exists starting in Age IV. As mentioned before it is tied to introducing a Faith need to Populations, but in exchange provides a bunch of extra Culture points. Additional effects beyond that for boosting a Nation are usually tied to National Spirits.
Civilizations are entirely just aesthetics. You can choose some kind of minor bonus at the start of the game to differentiate you from other civs, but the core work of defining how your game is going to go is made during the game itself.

Conclusion

I'm exhausted just from writing all of that! Suffice to say, Millennia isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea (Kaolin>Porcelain>Teacup + Tea>Cup of Tea, +6 Culture), but I do think that it's an interesting enough take on the formula and seems to have gotten enough tentative positive reviews that I plan on giving the game a shot when it comes out.

Jossar fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Mar 26, 2024

# ? Mar 3, 2024 18:27

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 07:20

Jossar: Apr 2, 2018; Current status: Angry about subs

Advanced Mechanics/Additional Information

(Details obviously subject to change upon release of the game.)

Ages

Millennia's Ages are as follows:

Age of Stone (Historical Age, Age I): Required Unlocks - None

Technologies

Farming - Allows for construction of Food Stockpile Building, Plantation and Farm Improvements
Tribal Elders - Allows for construction of Council Building
Defenses - Gives Warfare XP, spawns an Archer and Defenders in Capital/Towns, allows for construction of Archers
Scouting - Allows units to move through Jungle and Deep Forest, Spawns a Scout, allows for construction of Lookout Tower Building
Workers - Gives Improvement points, improves the Levy Workers Project, allows for construction of Clay Pit Improvement

Additional Unlocks

None - Or I suppose you could say "the core features of the game upon which all others are further built."

All Millennia games start the same way - You spawn into the Age of Stone and work up to build your economy from nothing to a sustainable engine that lets you do the following: Defeat, or at least endure, the Barbarians around you. Explore the map to find tribal villages, landmarks, resources, and land for future settling. Start your journey towards becoming a powerhouse of some factor of the game.

Age of Bronze (Historical Age, Age II): Required Unlocks - 3 Technologies from Age I.

Technologies

Belief - Allows for construction of Temple Building and Press, Weaver, and Vats Improvements
Community - Allows for use of Gold to rush unit/building production. Allows for construction of Crane Building, Mill, Kiln, and Sawpit Improvements
Discipline - +1 Army Size, Gives two addition Warfare Domain powers, Allows for construction of Spearmen and Chariots
Officials - Gives an Envoy, Allows for use of Gold to rush Culture, Gives one Diplomacy and one Exploration Domain power, Allows for construction of Market Building
Mining - Gives a Pioneer, Allows for construction of Quarry, Mine, and Stonecutter Improvements
Shipbuilding - Allows for transportation of troops on shallow water, increases expansion on water, Gives one Exploration Domain power, Allows for construction of Galleys

Additional Unlocks

National Spirits unlocked.
Vassals integrate x2 times faster.
Barbarian Warlords may appear.
Innovation and Chaos events now unlocked.
Trade and Diplomatic Envoys now available.
Diplomacy and Engineering Domains unlocked.

The Age of Bronze is sort of like a turbo-charged version of the Age of Stone, where you're finishing getting everything off the ground: accounting for increased complexity in Needs and trade goods, starting to focus on big settlement and development projects, and possibly trying to take a first crack at your neighbors. Your performance in the Age of Bronze can also trigger the first divergence point from conventional history, so this is the time to set those things up if you want an alternative Age III!

Age of Iron (Historical Age, Age III): Required Unlocks - 3 Technologies from Age II.

Technologies

Smelting - Allows for construction of Weaponsmith, Toolsmith, and Furnace
Horses - +1 to Vassal Prosperity, Increased territory growth, Allows for the construction of Cavalry
Construction - Allows for construction of Stone Walls and Stone Towers Buildings, Catapults and Catapult Biremes
Scribes - Allows for construction of Scribe, Library and Paper Maker
Infrastructure - +1 Town per Region, Allows for construction of Aqueduct, Public Quarter, Oven
Arts - Allows for construction of Theater, Colosseum, Sculpting Studio, grants access to the Arts Domain, and spawns an Artist

Additional Unlocks

Mine improvements cost 20% less during the Age of Iron.
Growth rate of Population increases by 12.5% during the Age of Iron.
Gold and Iron discoverable.
New Government types (Imperial Dynasty, Kingdom) unlocked.
Arts Domain unlocked.

From here on out, the conventional ages are going to be much more sparse in detail since we haven't seen their gameplay yet. I can't even guess whether some of these involved things are Buildings or Improvements. Just imagine gameplay that encourages similar play to the events of conventional history.

Age of Heroes (Variant Age, Age III): Required Unlocks - 3 Technologies from Age II. Must have discovered 3 Landmarks.

Technologies

Smelting - Same as Age of Iron
Horses - Same as Age of Iron
Construction - Same as Age of Iron
Storytelling - Grants heroic quests of this Age more reward choices, Allows for construction of Paper Maker, Poets, Hall of Heroes.
Glory - +1 Town per Region, Allows for construction of Lodges, Mausoleums, Vomitoriums, and Ovens
Oracle - Gives Prophecy Arts power, spawning a Hero with a nearby quest. Allows construction of an Oracle and an Offerings Shrine
Spirituality - Reduces the cost of Diplomatic actions. Allows for the construction of Charmscrafters and Talismancrafters. of Theater, Colosseum, Sculpting Studio, grants access to the Arts Domain, and spawns an Artist

Additional Unlocks

A Hero unit spawns in your Homeland.
Send Hero units to explore new Quest Landmarks for rewards unique to the Age.
Higher levels of Veterancy (XP, either from promoting an already experienced unit like a Scout, combat generally, or completing Quests) allow Heroes to complete more difficult Quests.
Complete 4 Quests to be able to build the Parthenon.
Gold and Iron discoverable.
New Government types (Imperial Dynasty, Kingdom) unlocked.
Arts Domain unlocked.

So it turns out that unlocking a Variant/Crisis Age doesn't entirely overwrite history altogether. Some stuff is apparently just so vital to civilization (and core gameplay) that it has to be kept in no matter how you're pivoting. So you can't purge bread from existence just because there's documented historical evidence of Theseus now. The two alternate Age IIIs are here for people who like certain kinds of 4X gameplay that would otherwise be less prevalent during the Age of Iron. The Age of Heroes, by the devs' own words, allows the players to keep engaging in what is basically exploration-style gameplay during a period of time when it otherwise would have run out, at least within your own continent.

Age of Blood (Crisis Age, Age III): Required Unlocks - 3 Technologies from Age II. Must have destroyed 6 enemy (non-Barbarian) units. Must be triggered if available.

Technologies

Smelting - Same as Age of Iron
Horses - Same as Age of Iron
Brutality - Line/Melee units get 250% attack against siege targets, Allows construction of Bloodstone Walls and Skull Towers
Preservation - +1 Town per Region, Allows for construction of Salt House, Midden, Granary and Ovens
War Council - Allows for construction of War Council, Scriptorium, Paper Maker, and Military Camp
Gladiators - Allows for construction of Proving Ground, Barracks, and Fighting Pit
Barbarism - Gives two Warfare Domains powers and a Warfare-related Culture power

Additional Unlocks

All nations are locked into war during the Age of Blood.
Unrest from war is disabled, Chaos gained from conquering Regions is reduced by 50%.
Military units have reduced upkeep.
Earn Warfare XP by killing non-Barbarian units.
Gold and Iron discoverable.
New Government types (Imperial Dynasty, Kingdom) unlocked.
Arts Domain unlocked.

The Age of Blood, by the devs' own words, is about reducing the logistics problems involved with 4X gameplay so that everyone can just get down to the business of killing each other. If your goal is to have a more peaceful playthrough, you either want to make sure that this Age is avoided entirely or work out a way to hole up in your regions and endure it until someone hits Age IV, which ends the global eternal war effect.

Age of Kings (Historical Age, Age IV): Required Unlocks - 3 Technologies from Age III. Must be triggered if the previous Age was a Crisis Age or Variant Age.

Technologies

Machines - Allows for construction of Workshop and Logging Camp
Medieval University - Grants the Treatise ability, allowing for conversion of Production to Knowledge, Allows for construction of the Privy Council and the Medieval University
Guilds - Grants the Taxation ability, allowing for conversion of Production to Wealth, Allows for construction of the Jeweler, Great Hall, Winery, Market Square, and Villa
Dry Compass - Allows for construction of Fishing Fleets and Cogs
Professional Army - +1 Army Size, Allows construction of the Barracks, Pikes, and Longswords
Organized Religion - Allows for construction of Large Temples, Abbeys, and Holy Sites
Feudalism - +1 Town per Region, Allows for construction of Kitchen, Large Plantation, Plowed Farm, and Ranch

Additional Unlocks

Second tier National Spirits now unlocked.
Building a Castle by specializing an Outpost during the Age of Kings provides a Culture bonus.
Generate Culture per religious Population by founding or joining a Religion via the Arts Domain Power or Cultural Power.
Coffee, Sugar, Tea, Tobacco discoverable.

Apart from religion, there are two notable features about this Age. The first is that this is the age where you can start having your cities really pay back into large scale empire-wide production like Wealth and Knowledge. The second is that this is the introduction of Ages that force a return to the historical path after Variants/Crises, so if you specifically want one of the Age IV variants, you have to avoid triggering the Age of Blood/Age of Heroes.

Age of Monuments (Variant Age, Age IV): Required Unlocks - 3 Technologies from Age III. Previous Age cannot have been a Crisis Age or Variant Age. Must have built 3 Civic Monuments.

Technologies

Medieval University - Same as Age of Kings
Dry Compass - Same as Age of Kings
Grand Project - Grants ability related to construction of Monuments, Allows construction of Grand Workshop, Logging Camp, and Lathe Workshop
Trade Network - Grants the Taxation ability, allowing for conversion of Production to Wealth, Gives a separate Taxation domain power. Allows construction of the Jeweler, Winery, Market Square, and Villa
Mercenaries - +1 Army Size, Gives a Diplomacy Culture power, Allows construction of the Mercenary Hall, Knights, and Crossbow Mercenaries
Worship - Gives an Arts Domain power to spawn a Clergy unit, Allows construction of the Abbey and Grand Temple
Immigration - +1 Town per Region, Gives a Diplomacy domain power, Allows construction of Ranch, Kitchen, Migrant Farm, and Migrant Plantations

Additional Unlocks

Second tier National Spirits now unlocked.
Build and dedicate Monuments to gain benefits in your Regions.
Build Super Monuments that generate substantial resources.
During the Age of Monuments you generate an additional Improvement Point.
Generate Culture per religious Population by founding or joining a Religion via the Arts Domain Power or Cultural Power.
Coffee, Sugar, Tea, Tobacco discoverable.

The Age of Monuments is about you dragging in people from all over the world to help support your nation as it builds megaprojects that will continue to provide benefits for Regions even ages in the future. Cities that take advantage of what the Age of Monuments has to offer will have higher than normal Production compared to standard Age cities. The Age for players who specifically don't want to deal with all that war nonsense and just want to focus on building their engine, though less strictly so than future ages will be.

Age of Plague (Crisis Age, Age IV): Required Unlocks - 3 Technologies from Age III. Previous Age cannot have been a Crisis Age or Variant Age. Must have accumulated 20 Crisis Factor while not having sufficient Sanitation to meet the needs of your Nation. Must be triggered if available.

Technologies

Machines - Same as Age of Kings
Professional Army - Same as Age of Kings
Sanctuary - Gives an Arts Culture power, Allows construction of Holy Site and Abbey
Market Cornering - +1 Luxury on Plantation Goods, affects Outbreak Chances on Imports and Exports, Allows construction of Jeweler, Winery, Kitchen, and Market Manager
Humors - Affects Outbreak Chance per Population, Spawns a free Plague Doctor, allows construction of Plague Doctors, Physician's Guild, and Pious University
Isolation - Further Outbreak Effects, allows construction of Crossbow Guard, Turrets, Barricades, Armories, and Castles
Efficient Farming - +1 Town per Region, Gives a Diplomacy domain power, Allows construction of Cash Crop Plantations, Swidden Farm, and Foodlot Ranch

Additional Unlocks

Second tier National Spirits now unlocked.
A great plague strikes, reducing all populations to 67%.
Outbreaks disable Improvements and then reduce Population if not stopped.
A Plague Doctor spawns in your Homeland. Cleanse Outbreaks with Plague Doctors or Improvement points.
Generate Culture per religious Population by founding or joining a Religion via the Arts Domain Power or Cultural Power.
Coffee, Sugar, Tea, Tobacco discoverable.

The Age of Plague is really weird compared to all of the other Ages we've seen so far. Even the variants of earlier ages mostly just involved some slight turning of already extant dials, but here the game is starting to use Variant/Crisis Ages to throw in entirely different gameplay mechanics entirely. Also I see that the nations of this age have tried to solve the plague problem by just shooting anyone who tries to enter their cities and forcing all the people who've stayed alive into terrifying farming contract arrangements.

Age of Renaissance (Historical Age, Age V): Required Unlocks - 3 Technologies from Age IV. Must be triggered if the previous Age was a Crisis Age or Variant Age.

Technologies

Printing Press - Allows construction of Paper Mill and Printing Press
Public Works - Allows construction of Lifting Tower, Poorhouse, Waterworks, and Trash Heap
Administration - Gives a Government Culture power
Navigation - Enables Deep Water transports, Allows construction of Carrack and Harbor
Finance - Improves the Levy Workers Project, +1 to Vassal Prosperity, Allows construction of Warehouses and Textile Mills
Gunpowder - Allows construction of Arquebus, Cannon, and Bomb Vessel
Machinery - Gives an Engineering Domain power, Allows construction of Clay Mines, Brickworks, Sawmill, Deep Mine, and Blast Furnace

Additional Unlocks

The first Artist unit created in this Age provides a Culture bonus.
Social Fabrics now unlocked.
Every nation receives a Social Fabric Wildcard upon entering the Age of Renaissance.
Scouts can now upgrade to Explorers and undertake Expeditions of discovered Landmarks for various rewards.
New Government types (Empire, Feudal Monarchy, Republic) unlocked.

Game's opening up again, allowing all those Scouts you've had sitting around doing nothing for an Age or two be useful, in addition to finding players hiding across Deep Ocean. The Social Fabric system is mostly just about generating a bunch of passive bonuses to improve your already existing engine, but keep an eye out for its ability to win you the game later on.

Age of Discovery (Variant Age, Age V): Required Unlocks - 3 Technologies from Age IV. Previous Age cannot have been a Crisis Age or Variant Age. Must build 5 Docks.

Technologies

Printing Press - Same as Age of Renaissance
Open Sailing - Enables Deep Water transports, Grants a free Caravel, Allows construction of Caravels, Scorpion Boats, Trade Companies, Harbor
Technical Engineering - Improves the Levy Workers Project, gives an Engineering Domain Power, Allows construction of Clay Mines, Lifting Tower, Brickworks, Sawmill, and Civil Engineering
Baroque - Allows construction of Baroque Musician and Baroque Sculptor
Automachina - Allows construction of Giant Crossbows, Ornithopter Scout, and Mechanical Knight
Deference - Gives Innovation points when completing City of Gold Expeditions, Allows construction of Cultural District and Canton Office
Noble Court - Units gain 2.5% attack vs. Barbarians, Gives a Government Culture power, Allows construction of Museums and Court Painter

Additional Unlocks

You can now produce Conquistador units and undertake Expeditions to Cities of Gold.
Once explored, Cities of Gold provide unique Goods with high resource yields.
Social Fabrics now unlocked.
New Government types (Empire, Feudal Monarchy, Republic) unlocked.
Discover new Resource Camps (goody hut variant) on land and water.

One Part Clockpunk, one part increased naval focus, one part return of the quest system back from the Age of Heroes. Heightened focus on those aspects specifically unique to the time period, in exchange for less focus on general utility.

Age of Intolerance (Crisis Age, Age V): Required Unlocks - 3 Technologies from Age IV. Previous Age cannot have been a Crisis Age or Variant Age. Must have accumulated 20 Crisis Factor while not having sufficient Faith to meet the needs of your Nation. Must be triggered if available. Must be triggered if available.

Technologies

Navigation - Same as Age of Renaissance
Machinery - Same as Age of Renaissance
Benevolence - Allows construction of Alms House, Trash Heap, Lifting Tower, and Fountain
Indoctrination - Allows construction of the Track Printer and Paper Mill
Status Quo - Gives a Government Culture power, Allows construction of Religious Schools, Mission, and Inquisitors
Holy Order - Allows construction of Holy Avengers, Cannons, Bomb Vessels.
Holidays - Gives an Arts Culture and Arts Domain power, +1 Vassal Prosperity, Allows construction of the Grand Plaza

Additional Unlocks

Culture earned from Religious Population is doubled.
Sharing a Religion with another Nation improves diplomatic relations, not sharing one reduces diplomatic relations.
Chaos gained from conquering regions is reduced by 50%.
Building a Mission by specializing an Outpost in this Age provides a Culture bonus.
Social Fabrics now unlocked.
New Government types (Empire, Feudal Monarchy, Republic) unlocked.

Honestly, the Age of Intolerance doesn't look that bad as far as Crisis Ages go? If you've decided that you're gonna go all in on Religion, consider tanking your Faith in Age IV as long as you can pivot, so that you can set yourself up for a more powerful mid-late game.

Age of Conquest (Victory Age, Age V): Required Unlocks - 3 Technologies from Age IV. Previous Age cannot have been a Crisis Age or Variant Age. Must be 150% stronger than the next strongest player. May result in the end of the game.

Technologies

Printing Press - Same as Age of Renaissance
Navigation - Same as Age of Renaissance
Gunpowder - Same as Age of Renaissance
Unification -
Support -
Forward March -
Frontlines -

Additional Unlocks

Triggers a war between the nation who is seeking an Age of Conquest victory and all other nations. Winning the war provides a conquest victory that is easier than the default of conquering all other players' capitals.
Social Fabrics now unlocked.
More to be determined

The first Victory Age. Included as an offramp for players who are clearly running away with the game but aren't confident in their capacity to hunt down and destroy every other player. They just have to beat them in a solo super-war instead. Funny enough, while there are multiple ways to kill off all of the other players throughout the game, this becomes less of a viable strategy the closer towards the end of the game you get, and at least one of the Final Ages in Age X will make a victory through military might nearly impossible.

Age of Enlightenment (Historical Age, Age VI): Required Unlocks - 3 Technologies from Age V. Must be triggered if the previous Age was a Crisis Age, Variant Age, or Victory Age.

Technologies

Mercantilism -
Government -
Colonies -
Public Sphere -
Society -
Standing Army -
Reason -

Additional Unlocks

Third tier National Spirits now unlocked.
Your first Public Library built provides bonus Specialists.
Secularism is unlocked, preventing the founding of new Religions and converting Religious Population to be non-religious.
Four technologies now required to unlock the next Age from this point forward.

By contrast, the Age of Enlightenment looks like it's supposed to slow things down again. A new alternative resource for later tier improvements, reduction in efficiency of religion, increase to tech costs going forward.

Age of Alchemy (Variant Age, Age VI): Required Unlocks - 3 Technologies from Age V. Previous Age cannot have been a Crisis Age, Variant Age, or Victory Age. Requires 5 Insight Social Fabric to unlock.

Technologies

Society - Same as Age of Enlightenment
Government - Same as Age of Enlightenment
Colonies - Same as Age of Enlightenment
Elementary Physics -
Panacea -
Transmutation -
Black Powder -

Additional Unlocks

Third tier National Spirits now unlocked.
Arcana introduced as a resource.
Alchemist unit spawns in Homeland, and can be used on Arcana to create unique Improvements.
Additional ways to create Gold if you don't already have it as an available resource.
Additional ways to turn Gold into other products.
Four technologies now required to unlock the next Age from this point forward.

This one looks pretty neat! For those players who want an Age more focused on improving their Goods production chains via the powers of alchemical science. Apparently going into the Age of Alchemy looks like it delays Secularism for some reason? Didn't see that mentioned.

Age of Heresy (Crisis Age, Age VI): Required Unlocks - 3 Technologies from Age IV. Previous Age cannot have been a Crisis Age, Variant Age, or Victory Age. (add'l unlock, something about failure to produce a sufficient amount of Culture.) Must be triggered if available.

Technologies

Reason - Same as Age of Enlightenment
Mercantilism - Same as Age of Enlightenment
Colonies - Same as Age of Enlightenment
Reformers -
Rigor -
Order -
Private Security -

Additional Unlocks

Third tier National Spirits now unlocked.
Some kind of Cultist mechanism.
Secularism is unlocked (maybe different because of the Heresy?), preventing the founding of new Religions and converting Religious Population to be non-religious.
More to be determined

I guess in this Crisis Age, Thomas Hobbes is writing about a literal Leviathan than will rise from the deep to suppress everyone rather than an all-powerful sovereign. Or maybe it's just that in the absence of a public sphere that allows for Enlightenment thought, governments see any challenge to official thought as something that needs to be controlled. I wish we knew if it was possible to give in to the Cultists and let your Nation embrace the horrors or if this is just 100% a bad idea.

Age of Revolution (Historical Age, Age VII): Required Unlocks - 4 Technologies from Age VI. Must be triggered if the previous Age was a Crisis Age, or Variant Age.

Technologies

Communication -
Rail -
Urbanization -
Aeronautics -
Applied Science -
Industry -
Steel -
Militarization -

Additional Unlocks

Revolutionaries will appear to free your Regions and form new Nations.
Generate Power to power modern Buildings and Improvements.
Assemble an Air Force to defend your Regions.

I don't like how the Air Force shows up here rather than in Age VIII on a thematic level, but I suppose there wouldn't be enough time for it to be relevant on a gameplay level if it didn't start being available now. Chaos events have been able to create new Revolutionary Nations forever, but now the game's actively trying to force it to happen: for those who thought they were done with Barbarians at this stage of the game, beware! Honestly, depending on how weak your armies are, you might prefer Ignorance in some cases.

Age of Aether (Variant Age, Age VII): Required Unlocks - 4 Technologies from Age VI. Previous Age cannot have been a Crisis Age or Variant Age. Must have 5 Recon Balloon Engineers built.

Technologies

Communication - Same as Age of Revolution
Rail - Same as Age of Revolution
Urbanization - Same as Age of Revolution
Lighter Than Air -
Mad Science -
Automata -
Exotic Metallurgy -
Exotic Power -

Additional Unlocks

Unique Aether Resource revealed on Mountains which is used to power special Improvements.
All Barbarians and Barbarian Camps disbanded.
All Regional Unrest reset to 0.
Generate Power to power modern Buildings and Improvements.
Assemble an Air Force to defend your Regions.

I mean, it's a game about alternate history. There has to be a Steampunk Age in here somewhere. Aether itself can be used as a power source and the Improvements are fairly powerful, consuming Aether to produce additional goods. That bit about Unrest and Barbarian reset is interesting, kind of a mixed blessing depending on whether you were farming Barbarians for Warfare XP and goodie huts/hoping to use Unrest to force an opponent to collapse.

Age of Ignorance (Crisis Age, Age VII): Required Unlocks - 4 Technologies from Age VI. Previous Age cannot have been a Crisis Age or Variant Age. Locked in by having 20 Education Crisis Charge. Must be triggered if available.

Technologies

Urban Sprawl -
Garrison State -
Exploitation -

Additional Unlocks

To be determined

The game punishing you for relying on your old Knowledge economy without converting to the new one and accompanying production of Education. The Age of Ignorance has a much smaller number of techs than usual, but these are designed to take forever to get through, further stonewalling players who have nothing to their Nation but research capacity.

Age of Harmony (Victory Age, Age VII): Required Unlocks - 4 Technologies from Age VII. Previous Age cannot have been a Crisis Age or Variant Age. Must have 30% of the world's population following your Religion. May result in the end of the game.

Technologies

Additional Unlocks

Win if 66% of the world population follows your Religion.
Secularism does not generate during the Age of Harmony.
Generate Power to power modern Buildings and Improvements.
Assemble an Air Force to defend your regions.

The early offramp for Religion-focused players to win the game. Although honestly, the bonuses to allowing religion to stay relevant even into the endgame (including the complete shutdown of Secularism for the Age) make the Age of Harmony worth pursuing for such players even if they don't think they can clinch the win.

Age of Rocketry (Historical Age, Age VIII): Required Unlocks - 4 Technologies from Age VII, or all the Technologies from the Age of Ignorance. Must be triggered if the previous Age was a Crisis Age, or Variant Age.

Technologies

Additional Unlocks

Fourth tier National Spirits now unlocked.
Faction system - At the final tier of government (Democracy, Communist, Fundamentalist) you're automatically placed in a semi-cooperative position with other players of the same government type which discourages you from blowing them off the face of the planet until you get all of the Faction bonuses.
Space Race - Minigame where you complete projects roughly parallel to the US/Soviet space race in exchange for bonuses.

Either there's just a tiny bit more info that I've seen on the lategame rather than the midgame, or this is the point where the game figures that you're starting to get bored and needs to grab your attention again as you work your way through the last three Ages.

Age of Utopia (Variant Age, Age VIII): Required Unlocks - 4 Technologies from Age VII, or all the Technologies from the Age of Ignorance. Must have 3 Innovation events trigger. Previous Age cannot have been a Crisis Age, Variant Age, or Victory Age.

Technologies

Additional Unlocks

Ocean Settlers can settle Regions in Deep Water with unique Buildings, Improvements, and Goods.
x2 Unrest gained from an active war.
Naval Units cost 10% less during the Age of Utopia.
Fourth tier National Spirits now unlocked.
Faction system - At the final tier of government (Democracy, Communist, Fundamentalist) you're automatically placed in a semi-cooperative position with other players of the same government type which discourages you from blowing them off the face of the planet until you get all of the Faction bonuses.
Space Race - Minigame where you complete projects roughly parallel to the US/Soviet space race in exchange for bonuses.

The Age of Utopia is much like the Age of Rocketry, except with a much bigger focus on naval expansion. Probably decent to go for if you've been going ocean-heavy all game thanks to previous focus via National Spirits/Governments like Ancient Seafarers or Empire.

Age of Dystopia (Crisis Age, Age VIII): Required Unlocks - 4 Technologies from Age VII, or all the Technologies from the Age of Ignorance. Must have 3 Chaos events trigger. Previous Age cannot have been a Crisis Age, Variant Age, or Victory Age.

Technologies

Additional Unlocks

Fourth tier National Spirits now unlocked.
Riots break out when Needs are not met. Use Riot Police units to disperse Riots, one Riot Police generated at your Homeland to start.
Riots generate Chaos when they appear, and disable Improvements, reduce Regional Efficiency, and generate Unrest while active.
Faction system - At the final tier of government (Democracy, Communist, Fundamentalist) you're automatically placed in a semi-cooperative position with other players of the same government type which discourages you from blowing them off the face of the planet until you get all of the Faction bonuses.
Space Race - Minigame where you complete projects roughly parallel to the US/Soviet space race in exchange for bonuses.

Likewise, as the flipside of the coin, The Age of Dystopia is much like the Age of Rocketry, except with a focus on how everything's going to pot. Things can really spiral out of control quickly here.

Age of Generals (Victory Age, Age VIII): Required Unlocks - 4 Technologies from Age VII, or all the Technologies from the Age of Ignorance. Must have Must be 150% stronger than the next strongest player. Previous Age cannot have been a Crisis Age, Variant Age, or Victory Age. May result in the end of the game.

Technologies

Additional Unlocks

Fourth tier National Spirits now unlocked.
Faction system - At the final tier of government (Democracy, Communist, Fundamentalist) you're automatically placed in a semi-cooperative position with other players of the same government type which discourages you from blowing them off the face of the planet until you get all of the Faction bonuses.
Space Race - Minigame where you complete projects roughly parallel to the US/Soviet space race in exchange for bonuses.
Like the Age of Conquest, there's a big war between all the players, except this time instead of being a solo super-war, it's divided up by Factions.
Miscellaneous industrial/military building options available.
More to be determined

The last real huzzah for a military victory, this time as more of a shared thing than previous in the Age of Conquest. From this point on, military power is incidental (although still useful) to victory, not a cause of it.

Age of Information (Historical Age, Age IX): Required Unlocks - 4 Technologies from Age VIII, or all the Technologies from the Age of Ignorance. Must be triggered if the previous Age was a Crisis Age, or Variant Age.

Technologies

Additional Unlocks

The first Nation to build the Internet Backbone Building gains a Wealth bonus.
Regions now have a Need for Information.
The final age approaches, consider what victories lay ahead.
Information is unlocked as a Need.

The Age of Information and the other Age IX's are mostly here to serve as a preparatory phase for the final phase of the game: the struggle for victory or defeat that must come in Age X.

Age of Ecology (Variant Age, Age IX): Required Unlocks - 4 Technologies from Age VIII. Must have 5 in all of the Social Fabrics tracks. Previous Age cannot have been a Crisis Age, Variant Age, or Victory Age.

Technologies

Additional Unlocks

Terraform Domain Power.
Towns can be specialized into Ecocities to generate Culture and Food.
Create 3 Ecocities surrounded by Grasslands to earn a large Culture bonus.
Regions now have a Need for Information.
The final age approaches, consider what victories lay ahead.

The Age of Ecology offers a couple of fun toys for messing around with nature, but is primarily here as a way to supercharge your Nation's Need fulfillment and Social Fabrics. These are especially useful if you're trying to go for an Age of Transcendence Victory.

Age of Visitors (Crisis Age, Age IX): Required Unlocks - 4 Technologies from Age VIII. Locked in by sending out a signal in the SETI Radio Event, triggered among various options when using the SETI Radio Scan Exploration Cultural Power, obtained by completing the Space Race. Previous Age cannot have been a Crisis Age, Variant Age, or Victory Age.

Technologies

Additional Unlocks

Aliens have invaded the Earth!
Alien Motherships appear in each Region, destroying their surroundings and spawning Invaders.
Alien Invaders seek to destroy your Goods tiles, turning them into Deserts.
Destroy Alien Motherships with your Air Force and salvage the wreckage to gain Alien Technology.
Regions now have a Need for Information.
The final age approaches, consider what victories lay ahead.

The Age of Visitors mostly seems to be here as a way of getting one final shakeup of the board before the final set of Ages, as triggered by getting aliens to invade the planet in response to messages sent out during the Age of Rocketry or one of the Age VIII variants.

Age of Archangel (Final Age, Age X): Required Unlocks - 4 Technologies from Age IX. Must build 5 Smart Grids. Must result in the end of the game.

Technologies

Additional Unlocks

Gives access to Archangels, space lasers that can wipe out Regions, via the Archangel Satellite Array Improvement.
Build City Shield Buildings to delay the firing rate of another Nation's Archangel Satellite Array, or blow up their Array instead!
Victory is determined as soon as one player has 50% of the world's remaining population.

If all you've done is boom population all game, then you barely even need to touch the space lasers in order to win. I mean, they're there as an option, but they're not necessary. The most useful victory type for people who have built large but otherwise didn't have a specific plan on how to win the game.

Age of Transcendence (Final Age, Age X): Required Unlocks - 4 Technologies from Age IX. Must have 2 Social Fabric Tracks completed. Must result in the end of the game.

Technologies

Additional Unlocks

Generate swathes of Domain XP and Social Fabric points.
Improve your nation through mutually beneficial diplomacy.
Unrest gained from war is 5x greater.
Victory is determined by whoever is the first to max out all Social Fabrics.

By contrast, the Age of Transcendence is the victory type built around being the sort of player who's spent all game micromanaging all of Millennia's more fiddly little systems. I'm pretty sure this is the only Victory Age that actively forces everyone to play mostly peaceful, so think carefully about last minute snipes!

Age of Departure (Final Age, Age X): Required Unlocks - 4 Technologies from Age IX. Must result in the end of the game.

Technologies

Additional Unlocks

Victory is determined by building the Colony Ship Construction Pad Improvement and generating 5000 Colony Ship Progress via Projects (the things in your cities where you convert Production to other resources).

Short and simple: leverage your Production to pull a classic end of tech tree victory via rocket to the stars.

Age of the Singularity (Final/Crisis Age, Age X): Required Unlocks - 4 Technologies from Age IX. Locked in by having 30 AI Singularity Crisis Charge (obtained by building Supercomputer Improvements). Must result in the end of the game.

Technologies

Additional Unlocks

All Nations in Age VIII or earlier are immediately defeated by Rogue AI. Being defeated by the Rogue AI appears to convert the defeated players' cities into factories, from which Rogue AI units spawn, although their units will remain as Barbarians for the Rogue AI to chew through.
The Rogue AI attacks your nation, hacking Improvements and reducing your AI Alignment.
If AI Alignment reaches 0, your nation is defeated by the Rogue AI.
Building an AI Personality Core Improvement increases AI Alignment, but attracts the Rogue AI.
Victory is determined by whoever is the first player to have 10 AI Personality Core Improvements.

The wildcard option. The Age of the Singularity is about holding out the longest against a rampant AI or managing to successfully place it under your Nation's control. For those players who don't think they're strong enough to win against their opponents in any of the other victories, but excel at thriving in the midst of chaos thanks to strong defensive abilities... or since this is apparently a hybrid Crisis Age, because you just couldn't stop slamming out Supercomputers to take advantage of your Silicon Valley build.

Jossar fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Mar 24, 2024

# ? Mar 3, 2024 18:39

twistedmentat: Nov 21, 2003; Its my party
and I'll die if
I want to

I played the demo and I really liked it. Only gives you 60 turns so you can't do much, but it definitely got me interested in the full game. Certainly seems better than Humankind which i found super disappointing.

Always looking for a new Civ style game.

# ? Mar 3, 2024 23:57

Bremen: Jul 20, 2006; Our God..... is an awesome God

Oh hey, I was thinking of making a thread for this closer to release, good to see someone beat me to it.

The game... well, the demo struck me as a game produced by some developers with lots of great ideas but maybe not the budget for lots of graphics and polish. Not quite to "budget indie game" level, but if you want a AAA civ-like I gather you might be better off waiting for Ara: History Untold. That said, the more I played the demo (and I found myself playing those 60 turns over and over), the more I fell in love with the gameplay mechanics. Not even just the ages, though those look like a lot of fun, but setting up the production chains and what not in cities, or breaking slightly away from the "everything is cities" model with things like outposts and utility boats/hunter units being able to gain resources on the map, which IIRC was something SMAC did and then the entire genre seemed to permanently forget about.

And it had the single best feature ever for a Civ-like game: You can control click on something (like an improvement or ability) that you can't use yet to set a reminder, and the game will pop up a reminder when you can actually build or do that thing. I love this little mechanic so much.

This game is going to be a day 1 buy for me no question at this point.

# ? Mar 4, 2024 04:17

Jossar: Apr 2, 2018; Current status: Angry about subs

Bremen posted:

Oh hey, I was thinking of making a thread for this closer to release, good to see someone beat me to it.

The game... well, the demo struck me as a game produced by some developers with lots of great ideas but maybe not the budget for lots of graphics and polish. Not quite to "budget indie game" level, but if you want a AAA civ-like I gather you might be better off waiting for Ara: History Untold. That said, the more I played the demo (and I found myself playing those 60 turns over and over), the more I fell in love with the gameplay mechanics. Not even just the ages, though those look like a lot of fun, but setting up the production chains and what not in cities, or breaking slightly away from the "everything is cities" model with things like outposts and utility boats/hunter units being able to gain resources on the map, which IIRC was something SMAC did and then the entire genre seemed to permanently forget about.

And it had the single best feature ever for a Civ-like game: You can control click on something (like an improvement or ability) that you can't use yet to set a reminder, and the game will pop up a reminder when you can actually build or do that thing. I love this little mechanic so much.

This game is going to be a day 1 buy for me no question at this point.

Yeah, I did say that the Age variance is Millennia's most defining feature, but the reason it got shoved near the back of the intro post is because, like you, most of the stuff that felt fun to work with in the demo was the relatively subdued economics interactions and baseline mechanics. That's what makes me hopeful about this game in a way that I haven't been for some other recent 4Xs: even if things are wonky and need to be patched up heavily post-release, there's still a workable and enjoyable core gameplay loop.

Jossar fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Mar 4, 2024

# ? Mar 4, 2024 15:11

toasterwarrior: Nov 11, 2011

Gonna get this based purely on how the team apparently took inspiration from fuckin Call to Power 1 and 2. God bless anyone who even remembers those strange gems of game history

# ? Mar 4, 2024 15:12

twistedmentat: Nov 21, 2003; Its my party
and I'll die if
I want to

toasterwarrior posted:

Gonna get this based purely on how the team apparently took inspiration from fuckin Call to Power 1 and 2. God bless anyone who even remembers those strange gems of game history

Oh I loving loved CTP games. The future tech ages were fun as hell. Dropping space marines from orbit on the AI Civilization that revolted because you just had to build that super computer didn't you?

# ? Mar 4, 2024 17:23

Jossar: Apr 2, 2018; Current status: Angry about subs

Well, I've been sick with a cold all day today, so absent the energy to do anything else I've been watching pretest Millennia videos. Most of it is just dev diary stuff, but PotatoMcWhiskey's extended, hour-long playthrough from last month with a more complete build of Millennia gave a couple of insights into the game to consider.

Combat is apparently really important early on just to give yourself breathing room/early development expansion, but...
You can use said early combat to mostly off-ramp yourself into a more peaceful/hybrid playstyle.
While being tech leader still seems pretty important, Potato didn't seem to feel that annoyed at being outclassed by the other civs while just sitting back and focusing on economy/infrastructure? I also got to see the bots trigger a Crisis Age on their own, which is something that people were wondering if they could do based on the demo.
Diplomacy between players exists, but is kind of meh. But on the other hand Diplomacy as a domain/playstyle is pretty interesting. Most of the post-early game part of Potato's run revolved around using Olympians to turbo boost the rest of his Domain XP via Olympic Games and then use both general military might and Envoys to build up a large network of Vassal cities.
Tying into this, I'd have to double check, but it looks like "foreign trade" is more of an economic abstraction where you spend Wealth to get resources for your cities, not really a literal trade setup between nations. I did see something in a different set of screenshots where you could make treaties for things like Culture though.
Likewise, since you have foreign trade, you can have a limited degree of domestic trade where you shuffle resources around your nation.
Outposts and other resource exclaves are apparently pretty cracked, but presumably the downside is that you have to expend effort trying to protect a relatively vulnerable area far outside your borders.

Jossar fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Mar 5, 2024

# ? Mar 5, 2024 18:02

Jossar: Apr 2, 2018; Current status: Angry about subs

Obviously, information is light on the ground at this point, but completed a basic skeleton of the Age tree. On initial review, it looks like the Variant Ages do a good job of being, well, variants instead of straight up-upgrades. But the Crisis Ages unfortunately do mostly look like they're there to punish the players more than encourage alternate playstyles. Definitely a "wait and see" sort of thing though.

# ? Mar 6, 2024 15:59

Jossar: Apr 2, 2018; Current status: Angry about subs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnGqXlrTdho

Weirdly enough, today's tutorial (the second in a series of five leading up to the release date), which is ostensibly about National Spirits, also teases a decent amount of the Age VIII Space Race and how to properly trigger the Age IX Crisis Age, the Age of Visitors.

# ? Mar 7, 2024 16:00

twistedmentat: Nov 21, 2003; Its my party
and I'll die if
I want to

Jossar posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnGqXlrTdho

Weirdly enough, today's tutorial (the second in a series of five leading up to the release date), which is ostensibly about National Spirits, also teases a decent amount of the Age VIII Space Race and how to properly trigger the Age IX Crisis Age, the Age of Visitors.

I hope ages don't fly by, one of my biggest complains about Humankind is that due to how ages change, you rarely have enough time to build anything. I never build anything more advanced than a musketman because it was the industrial age before he was popped out of my most productive city. The AI just beelines all the stars to go up an age, so you have to as well. It was a game made of bizarre design decisions. It felt like it was based solely around the complaint that it takes too long to game a game of civ. Which anyone who plays this kinds of games, is a complaint that is met with "maybe you should play something else".

# ? Mar 8, 2024 18:05

Jossar: Apr 2, 2018; Current status: Angry about subs

twistedmentat posted:

I hope ages don't fly by, one of my biggest complains about Humankind is that due to how ages change, you rarely have enough time to build anything. I never build anything more advanced than a musketman because it was the industrial age before he was popped out of my most productive city. The AI just beelines all the stars to go up an age, so you have to as well. It was a game made of bizarre design decisions. It felt like it was based solely around the complaint that it takes too long to game a game of civ. Which anyone who plays this kinds of games, is a complaint that is met with "maybe you should play something else".

From what it looks like in the Steam storefront (the sensible pictures, not the one with British robots attacking Chinese tanks in 7750 BCE), Age 7/8 seems to take around 300 turns, Age 5 looks like it's somewhere around 180-ish, and it took about 60 turns to get to the start of the Age of Iron or thereabouts in the demo. Combined with something I saw in the dev notes about how starting at Age VI or so, you need an extra technology to progress through the Ages, it definitely seems like the game wants you to be spending the vast majority of your time in the "mid-game" unless you try to offramp with an early capital rush/Age of Conquest victory.

Jossar fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Mar 8, 2024

# ? Mar 8, 2024 19:06

twistedmentat: Nov 21, 2003; Its my party
and I'll die if
I want to

Jossar posted:

From what it looks like in the Steam storefront (the sensible pictures, not the one with British robots attacking Chinese tanks in 7750 BCE), Age 7/8 seems to take around 300 turns, Age 5 looks like it's somewhere around 180-ish, and it took about 60 turns to get to the start of the Age of Iron or thereabouts in the demo. Combined with something I saw in the dev notes about how starting at Age VI or so, you need an extra technology to progress through the Ages, it definitely seems like the game wants you to be spending the vast majority of your time in the "mid-game" unless you try to offramp with an early capital rush/Age of Conquest victory.

That sounds great. Yea, midgame is the best part of it, you're still expanding, growing, but you've got a solid foundation. Where you can get good wars in if you want.

# ? Mar 8, 2024 20:15

Jossar: Apr 2, 2018; Current status: Angry about subs

Been a quiet couple of weeks while the devs work on finishing things off (although they are posting dev diaries), but PotatoMcWhiskey posted a more longform video up until about Age 6 or so, if people want to see more mid-game play: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwzp_F8kOHc

# ? Mar 16, 2024 13:34

Bremen: Jul 20, 2006; Our God..... is an awesome God

Lots of sponsored streams popping up, it's encouraging that Paradox seems to be pushing this game so hard (and I do think it's a quality 4x) but I'm not sure I want to watch hours of a game I can't actually play.

# ? Mar 17, 2024 02:10

LordSloth: Mar 7, 2008; Disgruntled (IT) Employee

Rock Paper Shotgun has a pretty negative review up

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/millenia-review

TL;DR they�re not a big fan of the era system and how it often ended up out of their control.

There are a bunch of other objections, but I�ll take the review with a grain of salt and an objective memory of at launch Civilization games. I might end up agreeing with various points or I might just conclude the reviewer just had trouble adjusting to a new system in a limited review window.

I think it was worth a read but I�m not letting it sway my opinion- I�m leaning towards post-release coverage.

LordSloth fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Mar 25, 2024

# ? Mar 25, 2024 22:25

twistedmentat: Nov 21, 2003; Its my party
and I'll die if
I want to

Goon word of mouth is the most effective way to get me to buy a game.

# ? Mar 25, 2024 22:46

Antigravitas: Dec 8, 2019; Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:

Going to wait for the 3MA episode on the game, I think. The era thing could be annoying with higher player counts especially.

# ? Mar 25, 2024 22:47

Megazver: Jan 13, 2006

https://aftermath.site/millennia-4x-paradox-review another rough review

# ? Mar 25, 2024 23:39

Antigravitas: Dec 8, 2019; Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:

Gosh darn it to heck.

# ? Mar 25, 2024 23:41

Comstar: Apr 20, 2007; Are you happy now?

Megazver posted:

https://aftermath.site/millennia-4x-paradox-review another rough review

This and the RPS review are horrible.

Not the game. The review. It just tells me the game is bad but refuses to elaborate. It�s lazy and both reviews seem to have played the game once for a few hours and given up.

The game may well be bad but these reviews are bad at what they are supposed to do too.

# ? Mar 25, 2024 23:46

CommissarMega: Nov 18, 2008; THUNDERDOME LOSER

Antigravitas posted:

Gosh darn it to heck.

I dunno; I saw a few YT videos and they seemed to like it, and I certainly liked what I saw. The one thing I thought was a little iffy was that the first alternate Age, the Heroic Age, requires some RNG since it needs someone to find 3 unique landmarks, and AI players seemed to want to do boring stuff like advance to the Iron Age or whatever.

# ? Mar 25, 2024 23:47

Antigravitas: Dec 8, 2019; Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:

Yeah, I just read the review and it lacks substance entirely.

I sure hope 3MA gets together an emergency episode for this�

# ? Mar 25, 2024 23:48

THE BAR: Oct 20, 2011; You know what might look better on your nose?

https://www.ign.com/articles/millennia-review

The IGN reviewer spends four paragraphs whining about forest clearing tech coming too late from a historical standpoint.

# ? Mar 25, 2024 23:50

Bremen: Jul 20, 2006; Our God..... is an awesome God

I actually recall disliking the demo the first time I played it, but I stuck with it and ended up playing through those first 60 turns a lot and loving the game more each time. I feel like Millennia is probably a game that takes some time to click and maybe that's why the sponsored youtube players seem to be loving it but the reviewers that published obligatory reviews that somehow don't seem to have any screenshots you wouldn't see in the first few hours of play didn't.

And to be fair, the stuff even I admit is a weakness, like the basic looking graphics and lacking documentation, is stuff that leaps out at you, whereas the more complex gameplay systems that made me love the demo aren't as apparent.

Edit: That IGN one does seem to be more in depth, and I've seen even the youtubers comment that regions are often tile limited more than population limited, though that doesn't strike me as a flaw, really, just something to factor into planning. In particular I expect it's going to be a big motivation to not settle your regions too close together.

Bremen fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Mar 25, 2024

# ? Mar 25, 2024 23:52

Jossar: Apr 2, 2018; Current status: Angry about subs

Antigravitas posted:

Going to wait for the 3MA episode on the game, I think. The era thing could be annoying with higher player counts especially.

Since we're going full disclosure on reviews: TMA did release some commentary on the NextFest copy of Millennia, though not the full game - https://www.idlethumbs.net/3ma/episodes/the-strategy-games-of-steam-next-fest-2024, Millennia bit is approximately 12 minutes in.

It's a very lukewarm review: they said it was better than Humankind on an objective level, but felt like Millennia didn't have it's own "thesis" as to the nature of being a 4X game sufficient to distinguish it in a meaningful way from other offerings in the genre. They did say that they were still curious enough to see how its mid/endgame plays out, because a good mid/endgame could still make it fun enough to have a place in the pantheon of 4xs, but also it's got a big fight ahead of it because we're not starving for choice this year.

I remain hyped for Millennia, but the more I keep hearing other people talk about it, the more it's specifically a function of the game being exciting for me personally, and not in a way that can otherwise be articulated. A function of which is that, unfortunately, the best way to really determine "is the game good/right for me or not" is kind of limited to watching one of those several hour-long videos by content creators on YouTube. Although credit where credit is due, Paradox did shell out for a lot of them.

Jossar fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Mar 26, 2024

# ? Mar 26, 2024 01:10

TheDeadlyShoe: Feb 14, 2014; pretense is my co-pilot

LordSloth posted:

Rock Paper Shotgun has a pretty negative review up

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/millenia-review

TL;DR they�re not a big fan of the era system and how it often ended up out of their control.

There are a bunch of other objections, but I�ll take the review with a grain of salt and an objective memory of at launch Civilization games. I might end up agreeing with various points or I might just conclude the reviewer just had trouble adjusting to a new system in a limited review window.

I think it was worth a read but I�m not letting it sway my opinion- I�m leaning towards post-release coverage.

I had this concern with the era system from the demo, tbh. It needs some way of staggering who is in control or to be otherwise divorced from the tech leader somehow.

However some parts of that review are just risible.

quote:

One of the first I had of this was when I realised, a few turns into my first game, that the nation I had chosen to lead was simply a label. In Millennium, Egyptians, Romans, and Americans all start out as blank slates - there aren't any inherent national traits here, nothing Egyptian about playing as Egypt or Brazilian about playing Brazil, other than the randomised names the game selects for your settlements.

That's� probably fine, I thought. It makes a certain amount of sense to give players the freedom to kitbash a culture from the ground up, even if it comes at the cost of some of the historical flavour and asymmetry that give Civilization its broad appeal.

Civilization's 'a couple units and a building' approach rarely made any meaningful difference. Calling it 'asymmetry' is just ridiculous

# ? Mar 26, 2024 01:24

Bremen: Jul 20, 2006; Our God..... is an awesome God

TheDeadlyShoe posted:

Civilization's 'a couple units and a building' approach rarely made any meaningful difference. Calling it 'asymmetry' is just ridiculous

Honestly, I consider Millennia's "build a culture as you go" approach to be a distinct strength over picking a civ with static bonuses. One of my favorite things to do in the demo was look over the start it gave me and figure out the best way to shape my nation to make use of it, as opposed to Civ's "pick a civ with a coastal bonus and you probably spawn on the coast."

# ? Mar 26, 2024 01:37

twistedmentat: Nov 21, 2003; Its my party
and I'll die if
I want to

Are there any Civ like 4x's out there worth playing? As i said, Humankind was a huge disappointment.

# ? Mar 26, 2024 03:02

Bremen: Jul 20, 2006; Our God..... is an awesome God

twistedmentat posted:

Are there any Civ like 4x's out there worth playing? As i said, Humankind was a huge disappointment.

Well, I'm a big fan of this one. Comes out tomorrow, too!

AoW4 was more of a battle focused 4x, with more emphasis on your units and the tactics you use in battle than planning out your cities, but was a lot of fun IMHO. Humankind and Old World were the big ones recently but I didn't play either. And I think some goons liked Solium Infernum?

# ? Mar 26, 2024 03:15

LordSloth: Mar 7, 2008; Disgruntled (IT) Employee

I'm still a bit optimistic about the game, tbh.

I read RPS often and subscribe to 3MA, but their tastes haven't always coincided with mine. (and I think I might be conflating them with two other podcasts)

# ? Mar 26, 2024 03:22

twistedmentat: Nov 21, 2003; Its my party
and I'll die if
I want to

Bremen posted:

Well, I'm a big fan of this one. Comes out tomorrow, too!

AoW4 was more of a battle focused 4x, with more emphasis on your units and the tactics you use in battle than planning out your cities, but was a lot of fun IMHO. Humankind and Old World were the big ones recently but I didn't play either. And I think some goons liked Solium Infernum?

Old World is fun when i'm not in a war, but every time there is a war, i get utterly smashed. Even if i had overwhelming force, the AI just gets so many bonuses it doesn't matter.

# ? Mar 26, 2024 04:58

Eschatos: Apr 10, 2013; pictured: Big Cum's Most Monstrous Ambassador

Aow and SI are fantastic games, but they are not remotely civlikes. They are wargames first and only.

Anyway one I will heartily recommend that fell under most people's radar: Field of Glory: Empires. Tom Chick had some excellent writeups that sold me on the game. It focuses entirely on classical era Europe/Africa/West Asia - Romans, Egyptians, Celts and so forth. Lotta cool gimmicks that deserve a try.

Eschatos fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Mar 26, 2024

# ? Mar 26, 2024 06:06

Jossar: Apr 2, 2018; Current status: Angry about subs

Or I guess another way of putting Millennia, that I've been ruminating on for the past few days is as follows: It's mostly following Civ 4/6 gameplay but has a bunch of additional complication in terms of obligatory systems that matter in a mechanical way but aren't that immediately obvious on a visual level (mostly found in cities), options for deviating from conventional history via research, etc. So it's really just Caveman2Cosmos by professional devs that knew where to scale back on their ambitions (and the :biotruths:

). Which explains why I'm resonating well with it.

Jossar fucked around with this message at 12:01 on Mar 26, 2024

# ? Mar 26, 2024 11:57

JosefStalinator: Oct 9, 2007; Come Tbilisi if you want to live.; Grimey Drawer

This game is getting roasted on steam reviews - is it that bad?

# ? Mar 26, 2024 20:13

Stagger_Lee: Mar 25, 2009

At some point if everyone dislikes the game I guess I probably won't give it too much of a try, but it seems like the biggest problem the devs might have is that they successfully sold the different Ages as a way you might control how your game goes, and then really not implementing it that way. If the intention is to put it into the hands of the tech leader, but then also force that tech leader into a crisis if they didn't also spend a bunch of resources on non-tech stuff, seems like it would only play out as a customization option with extreme snowballing, and in other cases could theoretically be a complicated risk/reward of if the current tech leader is totally certain they want to be the one to do the thing.

Specifically if 1there will frequently be at least one AI willing to fearlessly tech and trigger a crisis age when they get there first, I can see how that's going to be a feel-bad for people hoping to see other results.

# ? Mar 26, 2024 20:33

Bremen: Jul 20, 2006; Our God..... is an awesome God

JosefStalinator posted:

This game is getting roasted on steam reviews - is it that bad?

It's been out for like three hours. How do people even know if it's good or bad in that time?

I went and looked at one of the reviews and one dunked it for not having multiplayer. It has multiplayer, but the "simultaneous multiplayer" is marked as coming soon, so I guess they assumed multiplayer doesn't work. Though apparently some people are having trouble with IP forwarding and stuff, so it's entirely possible the actual multiplayer doesn't work well (I haven't tried).

# ? Mar 26, 2024 20:54

habituallyred: Feb 6, 2015

Eschatos posted:

Aow and SI are fantastic games, but they are not remotely civlikes. They are wargames first and only.

Anyway one I will heartily recommend that fell under most people's radar: Field of Glory: Empires. Tom Chick had some excellent writeups that sold me on the game. It focuses entirely on classical era Europe/Africa/West Asia - Romans, Egyptians, Celts and so forth. Lotta cool gimmicks that deserve a try.

I'll ask what you recommend for playing Athens in the DLC persia campaign. I've got a game going right now, but only because Argo proposed an alliance with me. And I didn't get a crippling plague on the second turn... I know its just being historical with that but oof. You start at full military flex as far as manpower and money go.

# ? Mar 26, 2024 21:23

Fuligin: Oct 27, 2010; wait what the fuck??

Eschatos posted:

Aow and SI are fantastic games, but they are not remotely civlikes. They are wargames first and only.

Anyway one I will heartily recommend that fell under most people's radar: Field of Glory: Empires. Tom Chick had some excellent writeups that sold me on the game. It focuses entirely on classical era Europe/Africa/West Asia - Romans, Egyptians, Celts and so forth. Lotta cool gimmicks that deserve a try.

AoW4 is absolutely a civlike, considerably more so than FoGE. And it's quite good fwiw.

The other recent standout is definitely Old World.

# ? Mar 26, 2024 22:20

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 07:20

Jossar: Apr 2, 2018; Current status: Angry about subs

Been testing out the game for a few hours, and I still think I like it. Still in the phase of trying to figure out how to translate scurrying around the map into a cohesive strategy though, feel like I don't quite "get" that part just yet.

I can understand the critiques that have been thrown out about the game, though I think most of them are blown out of proportion except for the archaic multiplayer system. But I suppose it also doesn't really do enough to win people over to overlook those. Oh well.

# ? Mar 27, 2024 01:09

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Millennia: "I could wait for Civ 7, but I want a Variant Age instead."

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