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toasterwarrior posted:It's certainly unpolished but I dunno about incomplete unless you count multiplayer, which I don't care about. I've read there's basically no start game options, which is usually a basic thing for this kinda of games
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Mar 28, 2024 14:46
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Specific map gen options, yeah. But there's still start options like player count, starting bonuses, and map size
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Mar 28, 2024 14:48
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I'm really intrigued by this game, but given how quickly Paradox has been dropping support for new titles it's hard to jump in.
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Mar 28, 2024 14:55
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Multiplayer works just fine, if you can live with remote play hotseat... and use RemotePlayWhatever to force the matter. 
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Mar 28, 2024 15:08
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Second game today instead of working. Got really hemmed in by settling on a narrow peninsula - while fish are abundant, I am lacking space for any infrastructure development. Got to do a bit of the naval game, too. It all feels very Civ 4 mod, especially with how you put armies together from smaller units. It's hard to consider anything Paradox is involved with as indie, even though they're just the publisher here, but I'm fairly sure if you're into Civ games, you'll get your 40 hours easily. The biggest innovation for me is the resource system. Every resource will give you a benefit, but plugging it through a dedicated building will transform it into something even more valuable. So you've got your cotton plantation, but no space in the parent city for a mill - you need to build a warehouse in both cities, and send it to the other one for manufacturing. Now, you can ship the silk back to the original city or let it generate income where it was manufactured - I assume you can also export it, which you do through using another building with an international export slot. I assume these buildings will come with more slots in future ages. This screen... is not great but I can sus out 80% of the information I want from it.  The biggest challenge so far is tracking all the different currencies and remembering which one buys what. I struggle to see which plots are worked on (it's denoted by little brown dots). The manufacturing and resource screens are not very clear and there's an overall lack of charts and flows that would make getting an overview of how your civ is running easier. This is where the indie characteristic is coming through - the base game is solid, but there's a lack of polish, though I have not encountered any horrible bugs or anything.  Here's my situation. Initially, the location is pretty good. The forests especially provide a good manufacturing bonus, and all the fish are great for feeding both the capital and the second city north. You can either improve the fish plots or send fishing boats, which are great, because the operate outside your borders. The tiny filled and unfilled dots represent if a hex is being worked on. As you can see, it's also hard to discern what improvement is built where, but that's the matter of getting used to the visual representation. As Zhengzhou grew, I had to clear the only free hex that had a mill on it and make space for communal housing so the city could grow further. The forests that were a boon are now problematic, as I can't (yet) remove them. There are two outliners on the left and right. The right one is done really well and tells me everything I need to know about my cities, outposts and armies. The one on the left is not very good - the red numbers mean I have enough points to perform an a action in this domain, and these actions can be very varied - anything from spawning units, to launching local initiatives. The sub-domain things are different national spirits, and each one is a tree you progress with through using the same points you also buy some units with. It's not great!  This is one of the many tress you'll be spending your currencies in to guide your civ and to define what it is. Mokotow fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Mar 28, 2024 |
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Mar 28, 2024 16:41
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Mokotow posted:As Zhengzhou grew, I had to clear the only free hex that had a mill on it and make space for communal housing so the city could grow further. The forests that were a boon are now problematic, as I can't (yet) remove them. One thing I've been noticing is available space can be an important consideration for city placement. It's not always an issue, and you can put a mill or a house on grasslands or tundra or whatever and it all works the same, so it's a good use for terrain you don't want, but you can't put it on water or forest hexes. Normally that isn't too bad - both those hexes can be useful for other stuff, and you don't need a ton of buildings - but if you settle a city (sorry, "region") on a coast with forest inland you'll be badly lacking in actual building sites. You do eventually get the ability to clear-cut forests but it's apparently pretty late game. On the other hand, I've been having a lot of success placing cities near large forests for lumber towns - a level 2 lumber town gets +2 production for every adjacent forester, which can be up to +12 and production is always super important. You can theoretically do the same with a mining town but good luck finding a hex with 6 adjacent hills.
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Mar 28, 2024 17:02
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Yeah those placement are super important due to the stacking adjacency bonuses, and I find it challenging to keep track of all of them. Civ 6 also had this issue, and I guess letting modders add "lenses" like they did there would help.
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Mar 28, 2024 17:16
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This game is super interesting. The mixed reviews feels harsh, and maybe a hangover of sentiment towards Paradox. (And definitely a function of the price, which is too high.) But I am really enjoying myself. Mechanically it’s a cut above Humankind. It does share Humankind’s weakness that the civs are completely flavourless themselves; there’s no difference (that I can detect) between playing as the Persians or the Romans etc. Game is cool. I do not regret the purchase.
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Mar 28, 2024 20:58
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I guess I’m in the minority because I actually prefer each civ starting as a blank slate and acquiring unique characterization during the game.
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Mar 28, 2024 21:03
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Humankind tried it and it was pretty bad, but then again that's because Amplitude has a bad eye for actually interesting synergies that aren't just "make more of the stuff you're already making so much of"
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Mar 28, 2024 21:23
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habituallyred posted:I'll ask what you recommend for playing Athens in the DLC persia campaign. I've got a game going right now, but only because Argo proposed an alliance with me. And I didn't get a crippling plague on the second turn... I know its just being historical with that but oof. You start at full military flex as far as manpower and money go. Haven't played that one, but I'd imagine any of the smaller nations are well served by playing tall for a while and just racking up a megacity with a ton of resources before sending out the legions. What exactly determines the kill count for age of blood? I conquered one barbarian city and it increased from 0 to 3. I conquered another and it increased to 4. A final one brought it up to 6. As far as I can tell the garrisons were identical. Wasn't goin around murdering any random barbarian armies either.
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Mar 28, 2024 21:50
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Eschatos posted:Haven't played that one, but I'd imagine any of the smaller nations are well served by playing tall for a while and just racking up a megacity with a ton of resources before sending out the legions. If it's like the demo then: The only units that count are rival nations and free cities. Garrison units that spawn in when a city/etc is defended don't count at all (I might be wrong there). Barbarians don't count.
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Mar 28, 2024 22:03
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toasterwarrior posted:Humankind tried it and it was pretty bad, but then again that's because Amplitude has a bad eye for actually interesting synergies that aren't just "make more of the stuff you're already making so much of" Also you switched civs in each age, and that was super annoying because the AI just rushed each age so they could get the best civs. Panzeh posted:It's funny how there's this 4x multiplayer crowd that only seems to show up at a game's release. There's a very vocal subset of gamers who get very mad when games aren't released with multiplayer, or its not the main focus on the game. I'm sorry, owning new players isn't the only reason games exist. Decided to pull the trigger. I'm itching for a new 4x rocks to space ship game, and reading the posts it see its gonna be something I enjoy. toasterwarrior posted:lol, when the release came out on Steam I did the same thing and man, these dudes really are pricks. It didn't help that every neighbor I had was like, Svensgaard, Cha Dawn, the aliens, or good ole Sister Godwinson tho Yea, exactly what happened to me! I knew the Fundies would be a problem, but not the hippies.
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Mar 28, 2024 22:13
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Lowen posted:If it's like the demo then: Well then what happened didn't make a whole lot of sense, unless free cities build units that count on top of the default garrison?
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Mar 28, 2024 22:46
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There are waaaay too many barbarians. Even at the easiest level i'm spending all my time and resources in fighting them off rather than doing anything else.
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Mar 28, 2024 23:44
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Killing the camps help cut down their number, but yeah, in the game where I got the ideology that stops barbarian attack I ignored them for a few turns to do other things. Then I got explorer and try to do expedition and there was a wall of barbarians that took multiple turns to traverse around just sitting outside in the fog of war.
pedro0930 fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Mar 29, 2024 |
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Mar 28, 2024 23:48
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On the other hand, fighting barbarians can be very profitable. You get 1 warfare XP every time a unit engages in combat, and killing a barb camp gives similar rewards to a tribal village pickup. Between that and the independent cities, this game really wants your units to be out there earning their upkeep.
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Mar 28, 2024 23:53
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I made it to the other end of my continent that was sealed off well enough from everyone else and by age IV it had hex to hex barb fields taking up the whole screen. As mentioned, it could use some tuning but they do serve their purpose and make far away lands extra risky for scouts.
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Mar 29, 2024 00:38
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pedro0930 posted:Killing the camps help cut down their number, but yeah, in the game where I got the ideology that stops barbarian attack I ignored them for a few turns to do other things. Then I got explorer and try to do expedition and there was a wall of barbarians that took multiple turns to traverse around just sitting outside in the fog of war. Yea, it seems like just beyond the FOW there are just raging hordes of barbarians just everywhere. You put your settler with some military units but then by the time you reach the point your trying to get, the army has fought so many battles its just the settler left and it gets smoked by another barbarian. Also how do you keep cities happy? I was paying attention to their needs but one of my cities just constantly had revolts going on and eventually just up and left. But i couldn't figure out why they were so unhappy. Was it because my culture had gone into the negative?
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Mar 29, 2024 01:30
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twistedmentat posted:Yea, it seems like just beyond the FOW there are just raging hordes of barbarians just everywhere. You put your settler with some military units but then by the time you reach the point your trying to get, the army has fought so many battles its just the settler left and it gets smoked by another barbarian. Unrest is almost entirely about garrisoning a city with units. I mean, there's some buildings that do some, but mostly you sit units in the city hex to do it. City Guards get a bonus to unrest suppression and are also stronger when defending cities. There's a circle that fills up on the city bar, if you mouse over it it will tell you both what's causing unrest and what's preventing it: 
Bremen fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Mar 29, 2024 |
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Mar 29, 2024 02:28
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These cities are way too dense. Beijing could easily grow to incorporate all the land in that screenshot.
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Mar 29, 2024 03:20
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Bremen posted:Unrest is almost entirely about garrisoning a city with units. I mean, there's some buildings that do some, but mostly you sit units in the city hex to do it. City Guards get a bonus to unrest suppression and are also stronger when defending cities. Aah, excellent. I didn't know that about the city guard, but that should of been obvious. I knew I needed to have a strong army everywhere becuase the AI civs are going to backstab me based on earlier posts.
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Mar 29, 2024 03:21
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Lowen posted:If it's like the demo then: Free city units count and I'm pretty sure that they're always militia.
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Mar 29, 2024 03:22
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In my current game I had one of my starting warriors surrounded and killed by three barbarian units (and spotting two different barb camps) on turn 5. There should probably be a grace period before barbs spawn. That said, I'm really enjoying it so far. That One More Turn feeling is absolutely there.
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Mar 29, 2024 03:33
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The trick with barbs is mostly to not roam solo with warbands. Scouts are fast enough to get away (and occasionally gank archers - they do count as cavalry and aren't weak.) An army of warbands will do just fine until barbarian lords come out (bronze age). It helps you start with two warriors. I try not to be too aggressive scouting with them. TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Mar 29, 2024 |
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Mar 29, 2024 04:25
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Started my nth game due to restart-itis and got a great coastal start, so I've been playing around with ancient seafarers and utility boats. The real defining feature seems to be the -70% utility ship spawn cost, though it's worth noting that even with that the ramping up cost means you don't get anything like unlimited utility ships. They're also not free - I was surprised to notice I was negative in wealth before catching on each utility ship had a 2 wealth upkeep. And of course if you're using them you probably want at least a small navy to protect them from barb and/or enemy ships. For those that haven't used them, utility ships are just boats that can sit on fish resources and send them back to your cities, without requiring population or requiring to be inside claimed territory. So obviously very nice in any situation where you have a source of fish resources. Even without ancient seafarers, you get one free when you build your first dock and the second one is 20 exploration xp (and an age 2 tech) so it's probably good to have at least one city fed by utility ships even if you don't go ancient seafarers. The -70% xp cost from seafarers pretty much just means instead of one city with a bunch of population-free fish, you want to aim for three or so, but doesn't mean you're committed to having every city be sea based. At some point it just gets more efficient to either farm the old fashioned way or use outposts on food resources. I've got 13 so far (65 free food!) and the ramping cost means the next one is 40 exploration xp, which means it'd be like 130 xp without the seafarers bonus. So it's been an informative experience so far and honestly I'm kind of kicking myself for ignoring utility ships in all those previous games where I didn't go seafarers.
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Mar 29, 2024 04:35
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EDIT: Lol, sniped by somebody else using utility ships. Glad to see you enjoyed them, Bremen!   Alright, second game down. Things got a bit wonky again, although unlike last time it was more a set of high level screwups rather than low level: on the ground execution was much better, which probably contributes to the lower turn count even with screwing around for various reasons that will be made clear below. Used a bonus starting Scout to work my way towards an Exploration heavy build. Game was very favorable to me, with there being a lot of space between me and my neighbors, lots of Landmarks on offer, and even an early Envoy to vassalize some nearby city states. Unfortunately for me, this pissed off India, who saw my takeover of the city states in their direction as a threat and committed to an early war dec. Unfortunately for them, all of my southern neighbors had agreed to ally with me and we'd done a pretty good job of clearing out the barb camps so I was free to focus entirely on India. The scouting meant that I was also crazy far ahead on science (which I never let up on throughout the rest of the game) and poised to march the world into the Age of Heroes with a ton of high xp troops. As soon as I hit Age III, India rolled over and died immediately to a doomstack of Heroes. Munich's heavy coastal influence, including that great set up for Coastal Towns you see there, combined with all the Exploration XP from scouting led me to decide to go all in on Natural Seafarers. It's kind of a weird build path going forward, because your ocean tiles pretty much handle all of your Food, Gold, and Exploration XP needs but as a result you need to think even more carefully about what goes on land since you have even more limited space than usual in that respect. I was lucky enough to draw the Innovation event which gave Docks a Production bonus to help with that early on though. The Exploration focus catapulted me through most of the game, further expanded on by Explorers (which let me grab the eponymous unit, cross the continents an Age early, and explore the entirety of the map) and Scholars (which pivoted in a more direct way to Science, of course the Luxury bonus didn't hurt either). I probably could have gone Space Race again, but the other feature of having a ton of Docks is that I was making piles and piles of money and so decided to go International Finance for my final National Spirit pick. It took a lot more time to get off the ground than I was expecting, but I was making so much money by the end it was ridiculous. A couple of turns of savings could buy an entire far-future army all at once. Beating India up meant that I had a ton of Vassals and was in a good position to go wide via Kingdom and then Feudal Monarchy. Feudal Monarchy in particular was providing me with a crazy amount of Diplo and Govt XP... all of which I lost when transitioning to the final government type. Really, neither Democracy or Communism provided that much benefit and I should have saved popping the Culture power until after I'd already finished International Finance. Somewhere around Age VI/VII is when things started going wonky from the high level perspective. I was worried about Age of Revolutions popping in a ton of Revolutionaries that I wouldn't be able to handle, so I popped the Age of Aether. This was a mistake because not only was I already neutral to Barbarians thanks to a perk in Explorers, but it meant a lot of stuff that was otherwise normally available with moderate bonuses was instead highly variable due to a lack of access to Aether - which I was in a bad position to grab in my mostly coastal cities. This also meant that I couldn't go Age of Utopia in Age VIII which might have synced up with the build a bit better due to all of the underwater cities you get at that point. I could have won a really fast Transcendence victory, but I did that yesterday so I wanted to go for Age of Archangels instead. In retrospect, this was the sort of thing I could only get away with because I'd basically won the game already: the other AIs were lightyears behind and couldn't really catch up. Everyone else had been busy with city growth as well, so I was only 25% of the world's total population instead of 50%. I had to destroy at least two more nations via wars until I hit the point where my infrastructure was fully up and I could fire the doomsday laser and wipe a city off the map every turn. Interesting to note: the AI doesn't really seem to know who fires off the Archangel, so where a human player will see you having a scout balloon nearby and go "Wait a minute..." the three remaining computer Nations were happy to just sit and stay allied with me as cities turned into craters across the planet. Presumably if they made it to the Age of Archangel themselves they wouldn't have any compunction about firing on me though to maximize their own chances of winning. Jossar fucked around with this message at 05:35 on Mar 29, 2024 |
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Mar 29, 2024 04:45
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One thing PotatoMcWhiskey made me realize in his playthrough was that a unit harvesting resources from a tile, even within a city radius, essentially frees that citizen up to work another tile; so yeah, utility ships and the like are legit very powerful.
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Mar 29, 2024 05:41
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here's a dumb raider trick: have a pioneer settle somewhere, pop spawn raiders on the outpost, and pack up the outpost when done. wouldn't count on getting a pioneer out of a goody hut for this, but when it *does* happen suddenly you have a lil army halfway across the continent. e: also experience has a cap apparently. save less warfare xp, buy more raiders Arcanuse fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Mar 29, 2024 |
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Mar 29, 2024 06:14
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Played through the first three ages and then started over. I built a farm on some rice deposits. After building a press to make wine, I noticed that I don't actually have rice, and the farms are making wheat instead. Why is that? Don't see any kind of alternate rice paddie option.
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Mar 29, 2024 06:29
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Rice needs plantations, which I think are one age further along. If you build a farm on rice then it's just the same as building a farm on regular grassland.
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Mar 29, 2024 06:32
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Farms never, ever unlock special resources in Millennia. That's what Plantations are for. Also, almost all the plantation resources just give extra money at the first stage and Plantations provide 1 less food than farms, so early on it's usually better to ignore them.
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Mar 29, 2024 06:55
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Holy poo poo plague is annoying. Is there some easier way to find outbreaks than scrolling around hoping to see the green miasma stuff? I’ve been able to manage fine by using production to clear the plagues but it takes forever to find them. I know during the turn animation it snaps to them but that’s not really working as a way to keep track either.
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Mar 29, 2024 07:37
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I was doing pretty well up to the Bronze age but then a barbarian lord appeared right next to my capital and wiped out a town and two improvements in like three turns and I got so bummed I stopped playing lol I'll try a new game. I guess you're supposed to leave a pretty big army just for defence? Or was I just unlucky?
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Mar 29, 2024 08:59
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Yes, Milennia is much less forgiving than Civ and requires you to have a large standing army at home. aI will also use ships to drop crap on your rear cities so you need a good unit spread. The upside is they all contribute to unrest control.
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Mar 29, 2024 09:08
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You can also get unit with your domain power, even a lowly warband will be able to tilt defense to your favor in a town.
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Mar 29, 2024 09:35
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Welp, get another bald-baked Paradox title? I’m sure it will be great after a few years and a bunch of paid DLC 
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Mar 29, 2024 09:56
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omg it nearly happened again Luckily this time I had an army in the capital One warband + city defences is probably enough to take down a barbarian lord but if he happens to path through your improvements on the way to your capital he will wreck all your early game hard work, and to meet him outside your capital you need a pretty hefty army edit: is the "Warrior Elite" action in the Warriors national spirit bugged? It's meant to spawn two spartan units but it only spawns one. fuf fucked around with this message at 10:14 on Mar 29, 2024 |
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Mar 29, 2024 10:09
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fuf posted:edit: is the "Warrior Elite" action in the Warriors national spirit bugged? It's meant to spawn two spartan units but it only spawns one. Nah, can't be, works alright for me.
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Mar 29, 2024 10:37
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I'm only midway through my first game so far but honestly Raiders national spirit seemed just as busted as in the demo, absolutely trivial to poop out a 4-stack that can dunk on a warlord and have 40 move.
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Mar 29, 2024 11:01
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