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TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

LordSloth posted:

Rock Paper Shotgun has a pretty negative review up

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/millenia-review

TL;DR they’re not a big fan of the era system and how it often ended up out of their control.

There are a bunch of other objections, but I’ll take the review with a grain of salt and an objective memory of at launch Civilization games. I might end up agreeing with various points or I might just conclude the reviewer just had trouble adjusting to a new system in a limited review window.

I think it was worth a read but I’m not letting it sway my opinion- I’m leaning towards post-release coverage.

I had this concern with the era system from the demo, tbh. It needs some way of staggering who is in control or to be otherwise divorced from the tech leader somehow.

However some parts of that review are just risible.

quote:

One of the first I had of this was when I realised, a few turns into my first game, that the nation I had chosen to lead was simply a label. In Millennium, Egyptians, Romans, and Americans all start out as blank slates - there aren't any inherent national traits here, nothing Egyptian about playing as Egypt or Brazilian about playing Brazil, other than the randomised names the game selects for your settlements.

That's… probably fine, I thought. It makes a certain amount of sense to give players the freedom to kitbash a culture from the ground up, even if it comes at the cost of some of the historical flavour and asymmetry that give Civilization its broad appeal.
Civilization's 'a couple units and a building' approach rarely made any meaningful difference. Calling it 'asymmetry' is just ridiculous

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TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

Looks like it got review bombed like minutes after release because people entered the game, saw that online MP was 'Coming Soon' and immediately filed negative reviews. Enough of them that it went Mostly Negative.

It's up to Mixed now.

My impressions are favorable thus far. They've struck a good balance between rewarding complexity and speed of gameplay. It's amazing how much time you can waste in Civ 6 trying to optimize your adjacency bonuses. In Millenia the only adjacency bonuses are from towns which make it relatively easy to manage. The building chains are a lot to look at but so far I just look at what raw resources you can efficiently put out and decide how you want to process them, which isn't hard.

I managed to push an Age of Heroes in my first game and its actually great. All the scouts i rushed for immediately converted into strong combat leaders with big tactics bonuses and you rush around the map questing for victory

TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Mar 27, 2024

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

The plague age seems pretty common. the AI is good at growing its capital but doesn't seem to prioritize building middens.

The plagues themselves follow a growth pattern. The odds of a city getting a plague depend on its population, the use of import/export slots and (I think) the number of improvements. You can mouseover a city to see its per-turn chance of gaining a plague. The plague then gets applied to a random improvement, which animates as a weird little plaguesplosion at the start of the turn. That level 1 plague applies a small debuff to the city. After a few turns the plague will evolve into a level 2 (Intense) plague which will apply a big debuff and also block the tile from being worked (turning the dot on the tile red, which can be a way to spot the plague if you're having trouble seeing the green stink lines. I do wish there was an icon.) Then it will evolve into a level 3 (Deadly) plague, with a huge debuff. When the level 3 plague evolves it burns out, clearing the plague tile but taking a unit of population with it.

It seems intentional that the plague doctor is inefficient. You pretty much have to let the plagues grow and hope the next plague is near the first plague so you can get 2-3 plagues at once with one use of the plague doctor (it has a 1 tile radius). Otherwise, you can also cure plagued tiles by selecting them and spending 5 improvement points but this gets expensive fast. I was running Levy Workers in my capital just to get enough points to clear plagues and to keep building. I suggest prioritizing the Age of Plague techs that reduce outbreak chances ASAP.

If you look at the city itself you can also tell if theres any plagues affecting it. I think the basic modifier just exists in the plague age, but if you have any plagued tiles it will show the additional debuffs on the city itself which cause losses in regional efficiency (which will screw you much harder than the plague blocking a single tile.)

Note that there are chaos events which make the plague worse! I got one that decreased the evolve timer for the plague from 5 to 3 turns which sucked rear end.

On that note the chaos events seem pretty rad. I actually lost a vassal to a rebels spawn event, they turned into Revolutionary Persia and i was too busy waging hellwar on france to spare a stack that could punch out a stonewalled city. They turned into a full faction! They started founding their own cities! lol.

TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Mar 27, 2024

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

Helion posted:

Reviews for this game are universally bad, so why are all y’all stories cool as gently caress?

game reviewers? i guess they felt guilty about their rave reviews of Humankind

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

The trick with barbs is mostly to not roam solo with warbands. Scouts are fast enough to get away (and occasionally gank archers - they do count as cavalry and aren't weak.) An army of warbands will do just fine until barbarian lords come out (bronze age).

It helps you start with two warriors. I try not to be too aggressive scouting with them.

TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Mar 29, 2024

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

olympian is definitely the most niche age 2 spirit. even when i played Rome (disounted envoys) i ultimately didnt take it because it was too hard to access other civs

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

pedro0930 posted:

I am trying to figure out how Naturalists can even be useful. Maybe for a building wide strategy (how? you'll bottleneck government exp for a long time) where you build a massive amount of regions and you cannot keep up with improvement point production. Only thing that looks good is cultural pt from working forest, but that's negated if you build wide. Exploration exp is also somewhat limited early on.

the intent seems to be being good for wide builds, you can go hella wide and your cities will work Ok with minimal IP investment. you get significant food from unimproved tiles and some free housing points and other stuff. The forest parts are just kind of there, the warband buff in forests is especially dubious since it doesnt apply to spears. Should be like a +5 flat defense buff to line units in forests or something.

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

just kill the nearby barbarian towns (a full stack should do it, esp if its 2 warrior+1 archer) and it mostly sorts itself out. if you're on a big map with not a lot of civilizations, it could be a problem, i suppose. ime they get all but exterminated by age III.

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

CommissarMega posted:

If you want your capitals to expand quickly, would it be better to pick +Influence or Discounted Expansion costs for your custom nation?

Imo the discount. You can get other sources of cheap influence, like God King Dynasty.

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

Leaders, pfft....*smirks Heroically*

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

Plantation resources and wild game usually give wealth.

Plantation resources can also often get processed to really amp up the benefits.

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

They produce wealth indirectly - by trading goods to improve production chains, and by getting Merchants from diplomacy xp

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

i honestly havent been super impressed by raiders. their 0 upkeep is a thing, but they tend to get slaughtered in great numbers against a proper stack, even from someone without a warfare spirit.

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

twistedmentat posted:

As i said, my issue is balancing my progression with defense, and what has been happening is I will ROCKET through tech until the early modern era (so age of aether, harmony etc) at that point, things start to slow way down because the AI becomes hyper mega aggressive at that point and I'm just constantly at war, and now all my cities need to build units to throw into the endless meat grinder wars are in this game (it seems like the game is explicitly designed to not be able to completely destroy armies unless they're already near death, no matter the tech differance. 2 tanks, 2 mgs and 2 assult rifles vs a mish mash of pikes, knights, crossbows and giant crossbows shouldn't be a hard fought battle when both are in grassland) so i end up falling behind. There has to be some trick to continually improving your tech output without sacrificing your ability to defend, or just avoid wars. Alliances are worthless because the computer will just end then and invade 3 turns later.

I've said it before, but a reduction in AI aggressiveness would really help improve this game.

its knights in particular that seem to be a problem between tech tiers

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

FrancisFukyomama posted:

Kind of disappointing learn the ai isn’t that great since the big perk of stacking is that the ai can handle it unlike 1upt

It's flawed but it works. i've seen far worse ai in 4x tbh.

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

I like the innovation buildings being more interesting/interactive. potentially hella powerful... colossus scaling with # of docks... thats a lot of Warfare

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

quote:

Increased Wealth value of Shells from 3 to 6.
understated buff to seafarers

utility boats are 2 upkeep so shells were kind of marginal in and of themselves, providing a net of 1 wealth. with this change its a net of 4 wealth. seafarers going to make a metric gently caress ton of income with this change for a relatively modest amount of exploration xp

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

I was pretty impressed by the breadth of changes in the beta.

The most hilarious was finding out the x3 forest defense buff for Naturalists now applies to all pre-gunpowder units, making them virtually invulnerable on the defense. Welcome to Nam, fools!

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

Cooking oil is a great source of early wealth. 2 Plantations on flax/olives and a Press press means 3 workers for 16 food and 6 wealth for a quite modest investment of improvement points. Finding the two flax/olives is the hard part.

Getting some early diplo XP and getting merchant on another civilization's capital can easily get you 10+ wealth even in bronze age. Although that comes at the cost of an early envoy that could give you a vassal so its kind of a trade off.

I'd have to say that the most reliably way of getting wealth early though is developing your towns. Towns give 1 wealth per level per improvement around them. Even a level 1 town with 6 improvements around is generating 6 wealth for free. At level 2 its generating 12 wealth for free. They don't even need to match the town's specialization. So prioritize placing improvements around your towns, and try to avoid putting them next to mountains. If you can swing it a good choice is a lumber town; 4 Foresters on a level 2 lumber town gets you 8 wealth and 16 production which is an *enormous* amount early on.

(A note on this point: it's better to place fishing improvements on empty water next to a coastal town than it is to put them on Tuna further away, as you only lose 1 food but you gain 4-6 wealth.)

TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 12:40 on Apr 25, 2024

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

I went with Government. You can always get more production, but an efficiency bonus to needs is just amazing. Then did temple palace after founding a religion for dat faith.

The super monuments were surprisingly easy, you only need 100 monument progress, i did it in 3? turns.

Probably should be one type of monument per nation tbh.

Age of monuments really is too drat hard to get lol. I only got it on Master because of a lucky barbarian camp clear that netted me 20 knowledge. Going 3 cities that early just murdered my culture.

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

i used to never bother with spawn warband, but at the end of age 1/ start of age 2 its actually pretty nice to be able to put out 1-3 melee units in a pinch for much cheaper than Volunteers. if you go right into discipline its great for expanding militarily

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

i can understand the samurai nerfs, last i checked in a battle they had like 65 defense or something ridic with the shogun

getting regional efficiency pantsed is a huge nerf tho. Hell of it is 5% RE is still decent.

think what they really needed was large increased cost on daimyos or diplomacy maintenance cost on daimyos or something like that. or restrict what parts of RE the daimyos buffed. Daimyos were pretty cheap for being on demand decent leaders on top of incredible governors tbh.

TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Apr 29, 2024

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TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

Clearing barbarian camps is mostly something i do for the rewards. Settlers are usually fine with minimal escort. I like to use 1-2 scout cav as they won't slow the settlers down.

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