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As enjoyable as Doboutsu Sentai Go-Busters was, I'd much rather see a Gokaiger vs. Kyoryuger movie than Go-Busters vs. Kyoryuger. That being said, after that it's probably time to put them to rest. The Gokaiger had a good run. They were fantastic.
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Jul 21, 2013 00:44
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| # ? May 17, 2024 02:49 |
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If only they'd make Dobutsu Sentai Go-Busters Vs. Kyoryuger. That would certainly be worth watching: 10 Kyoryugers and and 7.5 Go-Busters.
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Jul 21, 2013 03:40
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HKR posted:The scrubs are really bad you guys.
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Jul 21, 2013 03:51
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:They're still objectively better than TV-Nihon. Our editor is a professional editor, and she's friends with Kou, who is a professional translator. They both agree with the assessment that the scrub is a net negative on the overall script quality. The tv-nihon translation is objectively better, because every single attempt to fix non-translations or translation errors was done badly by a bad editor and a Japanese student who is years from being a competent translator (and, most problematically, doesn't seem to realize it). Or sure, we can just be dogmatic about TVN being the worst.
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Jul 21, 2013 04:18
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Yeah, guys, bandwagons aren't a good criteria by which to judge the quality of an individual project.
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Jul 21, 2013 04:40
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AzraelNewtype posted:Our editor is a professional editor, and she's friends with Kou, who is a professional translator. They both agree with the assessment that the scrub is a net negative on the overall script quality. The tv-nihon translation is objectively better, because every single attempt to fix non-translations or translation errors was done badly by a bad editor and a Japanese student who is years from being a competent translator (and, most problematically, doesn't seem to realize it). SpiderHyphenMan fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Jul 21, 2013 |
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Jul 21, 2013 16:22
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I'm curious how outright pretending the other version doesn't exist isn't dogmatic.
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Jul 21, 2013 21:24
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Justin_Brett posted:I'm curious how outright pretending the other version doesn't exist isn't dogmatic. Because one is obvious farce (I know the people responsible, obviously I was not unaware of its existence) being done for the good of anybody who might see the OP, the other is somebody actually being worse in the "TV-Nihon is fansub satan," category than people accused me of being. And make no mistake, the last thread opened with people accusing me of exactly that. And here I am defending their subs. My opinion of their overall quality has not changed. This should probably tell you something.
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Jul 21, 2013 21:28
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AzraelNewtype posted:Because one is obvious farce (I know the people responsible, obviously I was not unaware of its existence) being done for the good of anybody who might see the OP, the other is somebody actually being worse in the "TV-Nihon is fansub satan," category than people accused me of being. 
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Jul 21, 2013 22:22
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Translating things wrong is actually worse than not translating things at it turns out. TVN is guilty of both, but I don't at all see how that means it's impossible for another sub group or scrub group to do it more often, even if things look right to those of us who don't speak Japanese.
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Jul 22, 2013 02:35
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:Give me literally one concrete example of the scrub creating something worse than this: hahahaha
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Jul 22, 2013 03:59
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Raizor posted:Translating things wrong is actually worse than not translating things at it turns out. TVN is guilty of both, but I don't at all see how that means it's impossible for another sub group or scrub group to do it more often, even if things look right to those of us who don't speak Japanese.
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Jul 22, 2013 06:43
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YOU WILL RESPECT THESE SCRUBS. I WILL NOT REST.
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Jul 22, 2013 07:24
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RBX posted:YOU WILL RESPECT THESE SCRUBS. I WILL NOT REST. What's that? Actual translators tell me that they're bad? Nah they can't be right... SpiderHyphenMan I used search and found Az talking on this very subject just a little while ago, as far as this thread goes at least. AzraelNewtype posted:It varies wildly. Go-onger's scrub I think is pretty much just a removal of the Japanese. Gekiranger's scrub is a removal of comprehensibility along with the Japanese, because they tried to edit and made everything worse. GARO and Agito were corrected where mistakes were obvious enough for them, and edited to read like actual English where possible. And Just as a favor to yourself and everyone in every thread you post in, don't take things so seriously. All your posts come off as really aggressive and defensive and it's kind of sad. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Jul 22, 2013 |
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Jul 22, 2013 07:34
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Don't see how asking the professional translators to give literally one example of the scrub being "incomprehensible" is "being aggressive" but whatever.
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Jul 22, 2013 07:54
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NO SHUT UP I DON'T BELIEVE YOU THE ALTERNATIVE IS TAKENOKO-TACHI SO CLEARLY WHATEVER poo poo SOMEONE PULLED OUT OF THEIR ARSE IS AUTOMATICALLY BETTER
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Jul 22, 2013 08:40
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Box of Bunnies posted:NO SHUT UP I DON'T BELIEVE YOU THE ALTERNATIVE IS TAKENOKO-TACHI SO CLEARLY WHATEVER poo poo SOMEONE PULLED OUT OF THEIR ARSE IS AUTOMATICALLY BETTER COME ON JUST COMB THROUGH THE REAL QUICK AND SHOW ME ALL YOUR COMPARATIVE SCREENSHOTS AND I'LL BELIEVE YOU! HOW HARD IS THAT?
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Jul 22, 2013 08:51
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I've been looking for Kamen Teacher subs, because it's 3 episodes in, and haven't seen anything from any major sub groups. I finally come across this person: http://zuixihuan.livejournal.com/ Since I've mostly used popular and public sub groups, I've never come across someone who wants to keep their subs so private. I'm curious, is this a common thing? I don't want to come off as a dick or anything, but I don't understand this person's thinking. They don't want it distributed, or re-translated into other languages. Do they not want more people watching the show? I feel if you're going through the trouble to make a fansub for a show, you'd want as many people as possible to watch the thing you like, not keep it behind a wall. I really just want to understand the person's thinking. It's just weird to me, and I feel as if I'm abnormally upset about this or something.
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Jul 22, 2013 11:04
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The asian drama subber scene tends to be incredibly paranoid and crazy about piracy, and the ownership of subtitles derived from said piracy. The hivemind mentality is that resharing subtitles is offensive unless you ask for permission, streaming subs is a sin because it'll make more people aware of what they're doing (or help streamers profit with ad rewards), and if more people's aware of what they're doing then an asian company will sue their pants off. The latter has literally never happened, and the closest thing to it was a couple C&Ds to a popular asian media tracker.  The most paranoid bunch dwells within Livejournal, which lets them lock their subs to make sure no mean icky people steal their subs to stream or claim them as their own - and also to make sure a company won't sue them over subtitling the latest obscure drama featuring a cute guy they saw on a magazine. Here's an unlocked sub for Kamen Teacher episode 1. I haven't watched it so I can't vouch for the quality, though.
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Jul 22, 2013 13:57
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Box of Bunnies posted:NO SHUT UP I DON'T BELIEVE YOU THE ALTERNATIVE IS TAKENOKO-TACHI SO CLEARLY WHATEVER poo poo SOMEONE PULLED OUT OF THEIR ARSE IS AUTOMATICALLY BETTER ZenMasterBullshit posted:COME ON JUST COMB THROUGH THE REAL QUICK AND SHOW ME ALL YOUR COMPARATIVE SCREENSHOTS AND I'LL BELIEVE YOU! HOW HARD IS THAT? Why is asking for proof of something deserving of posts like this, exactly? I know he's seen Gekiranger before, so it wouldn't be that hard to cite something the scrub got wrong that TV-N didn't, surely.
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Jul 22, 2013 19:30
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Justin_Brett posted:Why is asking for proof of something deserving of posts like this, exactly? I know he's seen Gekiranger before, so it wouldn't be that hard to cite something the scrub got wrong that TV-N didn't, surely. Considering that it's probably been months since the scrubs have been out and year(s) since the TV-N subs have been out I think it's both kind of stupid and crazy to assume they would still remember exact specific examples or that they'd have both sets of subs sitting around so they could comb through them to find specific examples. But hey, that could just be me. I just know I don't keep multiple subs for series I want to keep around, and there are even fewer series I want to keep copies of after I watch them.
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Jul 22, 2013 20:21
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Justin_Brett posted:Why is asking for proof of something deserving of posts like this, exactly? I know he's seen Gekiranger before, so it wouldn't be that hard to cite something the scrub got wrong that TV-N didn't, surely. Given that it's the word of multiple professionals against your personal incredulity that anything ever could be worse than TVN, I don't think you get to push off the burden of proof here.
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Jul 22, 2013 20:53
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Somewhat Tokusatsu related but Chroma Squad is a management game about an indie Tokusatsu studio with tactical turn-based battles for the actual choreographed fights.
Al Baron fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Jul 22, 2013 |
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Jul 22, 2013 22:02
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Caphi posted:Given that it's the word of multiple professionals against your personal incredulity that anything ever could be worse than TVN, I don't think you get to push off the burden of proof here. It's like if an English teacher was talking to you about how the "i before e except after c" rule is actually bullshit, and you asked for an example and the teacher flipped out at you and was like "WHAT?! DO YOU THINK YOU KNOW BETTER THAN SOMEONE WHO GETS PAID TO TEACH ENGLISH?! GET THE gently caress OUT!" I don't think I know better than professional translators. That's why I'm asking them about this. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 22, 2013 23:01
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Translators don't get paid to teach you like English teachers do, that's a terrible analogy.
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Jul 22, 2013 23:08
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Ignis posted:The most paranoid bunch dwells within Livejournal, which lets them lock their subs to make sure no mean icky people steal their subs to stream or claim them as their own - and also to make sure a company won't sue them over subtitling the latest obscure drama featuring a cute guy they saw on a magazine. Glad to know I wasn't the only one thinking they were overly paranoid. Thanks for the link to the sub! Al Baron posted:Somewhat Tokusatsu related but Chroma Squad is a management game about an indie Tokusatsu studio with tactical turn-based battles for the actual choreographed fights. Oh man, this looks like the best thing! The Zordon-Brain thing is amazing.  I really really hope this gets funded.
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Jul 22, 2013 23:20
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Brother Entropy posted:Translators don't get paid to teach you like English teachers do, that's a terrible analogy.
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Jul 22, 2013 23:33
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:I'm just saying that the burden of proof is on them, not that they have any obligation to teach me. You're seriously arguing they do though. That their obligation is to give you breakdowns of what exactly is wrong with the scrubs. People here who literally work on translating these shows go "no, seriously, this scrub is trash." If that isn't good enough for you then keep watching it and recommending it, but don't get upset when those people continue to go "this is trash."
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Jul 22, 2013 23:37
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Al Baron posted:Somewhat Tokusatsu related but Chroma Squad is a management game about an indie Tokusatsu studio with tactical turn-based battles for the actual choreographed fights. Knights of Pen and Paper was pretty good after the crash bugs got ironed out a while back and this looks mostly like a reskin except the battles are done tactics-style on a grid. Seems like it'll be pretty fun!
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Jul 22, 2013 23:46
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:I'm just saying that the burden of proof is on them, not that they have any obligation to teach me. No, the burden of proof is on you, because if you want to have this argument you have so far brought nothing to the table other than "b-b-but kisama-tachi-dono!" I know it's cool to look down on TVN, we've all done it, I've done it a bunch, but there are limits. I haven't even seen the show in any form, I just don't understand why you're trying so hard to pretend "haha literally anything is better than TV-Nihon amirite guys" is a serious defensible position.
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Jul 23, 2013 00:06
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Also English teachers teach you how to read, but not how to use slang or hold conversations or the nuances and subtlety of everyday use of the language. The infinite variations of a language from town to town, or neighbourhood to neighbourhood in any country on earth come easy to someone who already carries an internalized understanding of that countries language. However Japanese is well, from JAPAN and just possessing a basic understanding of Japanese as a Westerner might give you literal translations of what people are saying, but something as simple as a children's riddle might as well be complete gibberish. The best way to know if you're learning a language in a meaningful way is if you're getting the jokes, because language isn't just a set of noises, it's a complex understanding of WHY what is being said is being said. Since you're not Japanese, and you have no idea OF Japan, the best way to get the point of a joke across is to transpose the actual CONCEPT to a like concept in mainstream western culture, or at least the local culture of the translator to reduce the distance between what is being said and what is meant. A lot of the flak TVN gets is because they tend to go for literal-as-possible translations, which honestly winds up a hell of a lot in the realm of tachi-dono-baka-whatevers because these are all very specific ideas that don't jive well with our own grammar. Some scrubs attempt to fix this without actually offering anything up as an alternative, but instead going for a literal translation of the literal translation. This is stupid. And also awful. Rei_ fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Jul 23, 2013 00:07
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I'm not getting into the middle of this battle because I trust the experts on this (never mind that the Geki scrub has been on my HD for over a year now), but it might be nice to have something in the OP to the effect of "these are recommended subs, don't see a group here? Just ask, we'll let you know if its worth your bandwidth." Otherwise you have situations like this where there's no way for someone on the outside to know that the translation has been judged as lacking.
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Jul 23, 2013 00:18
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Or an example of why it's lacking so that this doesn't come up again. I recall a few specific things were mentioned when the scrub was released on /m/, but I doubt anyone wants to go trolling through their archives.
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Jul 23, 2013 00:39
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Justin_Brett posted:Why is asking for proof of something deserving of posts like this, exactly? I know he's seen Gekiranger before, so it wouldn't be that hard to cite something the scrub got wrong that TV-N didn't, surely. The point is its 2013 and its Gekiranger who really cares either way? Plus he supposedly hates Gekiranger which makes this even more pointless.
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Jul 23, 2013 00:39
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RBX posted:The point is its 2013 and its Gekiranger who really cares either way? Plus he supposedly hates Gekiranger which makes this even more pointless. I'm saying either give literally one example why it's poo poo or just put it in the loving OP instead of pretending it doesn't exist because it's so awful but at the same time asking for a single specific example that showcases its failings is apparently nothing short of entitled goony goon goon whining. I mean come the gently caress on  vs. Just having him say "Impossible strength!" SpiderHyphenMan fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Jul 23, 2013 01:38
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:I'm saying either give literally one example why it's poo poo or just put it in the loving OP instead of pretending it doesn't exist because it's so awful but at the same time asking for a single specific example that showcases its failings is apparently nothing short of entitled goony goon goon whining. One single specific example, coming up.
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Jul 23, 2013 02:04
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Okay, fair enough. I guess since we don't list Hong Kong subs there's certainly precedent for not including certain translations based on quality, so there ya go.
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Jul 23, 2013 02:37
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What's everyone so pissed about
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Jul 23, 2013 17:16
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Classic Twisty posted:What's everyone so pissed about loving Wizard getting 3 more episodes. C'mon Gaimu, are you so terrible it's gonna take you another month to fix yourself?
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Jul 23, 2013 17:28
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 Pretty much, yes.
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Jul 23, 2013 18:08
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