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Kajeesus posted:Xykon could seize the gate and cast the ritual, find out it doesn't do what he wants, and then have a badass throwdown with Redcloak. Regardless of outcome, the Dark One finds out it doesn't do what he wants, either. Obviously the narrative issue here is that it'd take a lot of tension out of the story, but there's plenty of room for a new thread, such as a race to re-seal the rifts because poo poo gets unstable. I hope that a Xykon/Redcloak throwdown starts with the following line: "Xykon, when is the last time you gained a level?"
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Aug 30, 2013 03:34
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A.o.D. posted:I hope that a Xykon/Redcloak throwdown starts with the following line: They're actually starting to get close to Epic levels! Which, y'know, is good, when your end goal is to fight an epic sorceror.
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Aug 30, 2013 04:57
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CapnAndy posted:That made me curious as to how the Order's doing, level-wise, and luckily we've gotten something actually pretty recent to play detective with. The original plan for Girard's Gate involved summoning an Astral Deva by casting Planar Ally. That's a 6th level spell, and Durkon says that if they wait until dawn to start casting it, he can cast it five or six times in a row. You don't get 5 6th level spell slots until level 17. Don't you get bonus spells from Wisdom and magic items? 17 seems a little high. Though the deranged world-eating power of a high level 3.5e spell caster is pretty much being handwaved by Rich at this point, for good story-telling reasons.
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Aug 30, 2013 05:00
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17 seems actually about right for a group that's going to need to go toe-to-toe with an epic-level final boss sooner than later.
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Aug 30, 2013 05:23
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CapnAndy posted:17 seems actually about right for a group that's going to need to go toe-to-toe with an epic-level final boss sooner than later. ... Yeah, I guess you're right.
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Aug 30, 2013 05:36
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If you want to delve into madness, the Gitp forums has a thread detailing, very specifically, what each character's level is, with cited proof and mathematics backing it up. E: I think Roy's 14, the rest are 15-16 or so, if memory serves.
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Aug 30, 2013 05:39
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sebmojo posted:Though the deranged world-eating power of a high level 3.5e spell caster is pretty much being handwaved by Rich at this point, for good story-telling reasons. There's a phenomenon in WWII era military flight sims that any one who's played them for an extensive period of time knows, technically, much more than any ace of the time when it comes to tactics and maneuvers. Those aces didn't have sims, they couldn't die twice, they had limited stick time and much less in terms of written material. I imagine it'd be much the same for top tier casters in a D&D world. Sure, we've seen every little trick some grognard posted on some obscure message board, but they haven't. Someone who could get ganked by a mistake will be a lot more conservative with trying new things as well.
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Aug 30, 2013 06:08
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Eifert Posting posted:I imagine it'd be much the same for top tier casters in a D&D world. Sure, we've seen every little trick some grognard posted on some obscure message board, but they haven't. Someone who could get ganked by a mistake will be a lot more conservative with trying new things as well. But in the D&D world, someone who gets ganked by a mistake can be brought back to life by Raise Dead, Resurrection and so on. JosephWongKS fucked around with this message at 06:53 on Aug 30, 2013 |
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Aug 30, 2013 06:49
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JosephWongKS posted:But in the D&D world, someone who gets ganked by a mistake can be brought back to life by Raise Dead, Resurrection and so on.
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Aug 30, 2013 07:08
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Mniot posted:There's some third shoe waiting to drop, because Tarquin's team is assembling. They wouldn't need to do that just to say goodbye to Elan or kill Ian. One fighter I'll buy, but two? That beggars belief. Maybe a psychic warrior, or an evil paladin variant?
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Aug 30, 2013 07:13
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For people saying tarquin actions don't make sense , think of it this way. 1) tarquin hates people that questions his rule. He was going try and kill red regardless of the main plot or who he was related too. 2) tarquin knows a good story when he see ones. A young rogue has to find and save her dad from an evil empire. That is a pretty good story. It might even be a comparable story to the one he has planned for Elan and himself. He knows basic story telling which would point that likely the heroes will save the world. So he is milking the party out of any more value he can get out of them.
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Aug 30, 2013 08:55
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sebmojo posted:Don't you get bonus spells from Wisdom and magic items? 17 seems a little high. Yes, he'd get one extra level 6 slot with a WIS of 22, and could conceivably use a feat, a Pearl of Power or any number of other tricks to gain an extra casting. I don't think the order is quite at level 17 yet, if only because we've yet to see Durkon or V cast any lvl 9 spells and V in particular is not one to hold back on such things.
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Aug 30, 2013 10:02
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Hmm, ignoble, anti-climactic ways for Tarquin to die.... ...what are the odds of the dragon empress accidentally eating him mid-sentence when she gets cravings?
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Aug 30, 2013 10:36
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The snarl is Keith Baker and his publication of Ebberon will destroy rich's chance of having his homebrew world published.
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Aug 30, 2013 11:36
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Strudel Man posted:Yeah, I don't feel like it really makes a lot of sense for Tarquin to do this. The lowly stock thing doesn't work for someone who isn't actually of noble extraction - he wasn't born into his position, he clawed his way up to it, so it's bizarre for him suddenly to be thinking like a blueblood. It's not "your dad is a commoner," it's "your dad is a dick." Rich likes to show off similarities between people of conflicting alignments and goals, and Tarquin distrusts Haley for exactly the same reason Ian distrusts Elan. A.o.D. posted:I hope that a Xykon/Redcloak throwdown starts with the following line: It's been implied that Xykon likes to pop off for the occasional solo adventure, and that's how he keeps up.
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Aug 30, 2013 12:40
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Kajeesus posted:It's been implied that Xykon likes to pop off for the occasional solo adventure, and that's how he keeps up. Can a lich gain levels? I had assumed they were frozen at whatever level they were when they died. (This is probably lifeist or undeadist or something.)
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Aug 30, 2013 12:44
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prefect posted:Can a lich gain levels? I had assumed they were frozen at whatever level they were when they died. (This is probably lifeist or undeadist or something.)
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Aug 30, 2013 12:55
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Tarquin said that he hated Ian because Ian talked to him like an equal. Sure, Tarquin is a mighty evil overlord and Ian is just some scumbag from Greysky City, but they are, in fact, equals. Because they're both NPC story hooks who are the parent of a PC.
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Aug 30, 2013 13:00
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Strudel Man posted:The lowly stock thing doesn't work for someone who isn't actually of noble extraction - he wasn't born into his position, he clawed his way up to it, so it's bizarre for him suddenly to be thinking like a blueblood.
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Aug 30, 2013 13:25
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Kajeesus posted:It's not "your dad is a commoner," it's "your dad is a dick." Rich likes to show off similarities between people of conflicting alignments and goals, and Tarquin distrusts Haley for exactly the same reason Ian distrusts Elan. It's more "My son and I are playing in the premier leagues, whereas your dad is strictly third division". It's not that Ian is from common/dickish, it's that he's not clever enough to outsmart Tarquin or perceive his schemes.
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Aug 30, 2013 13:53
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Speedball posted:Hmm, ignoble, anti-climactic ways for Tarquin to die.... This reminds me, I'd assume a big fat red dragon is a pretty powerful creature isn't it? How much of a hard time would the order have fighting one? (not necessarily the empress) Since I know very little about D&D I don't know if they ever become trivial to deal with at higher levels. For example, are Tarquin and co. actually risking something manipulating the empress, or would they easily kill and replace her if she ever got unruly?
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Aug 30, 2013 15:44
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Blackheart posted:This reminds me, I'd assume a big fat red dragon is a pretty powerful creature isn't it? How much of a hard time would the order have fighting one? (not necessarily the empress) Since I know very little about D&D I don't know if they ever become trivial to deal with at higher levels. For example, are Tarquin and co. actually risking something manipulating the empress, or would they easily kill and replace her if she ever got unruly? We've seen the empress before she put on weight; she's definitely one of the smaller dragons out there. I mean, she's still a dragon, but probably still child's play for Tarquin's hardened crew, and all those pounds are probably giving her more penalties than bonuses, if you know what I'm sayin'. Still, deposing her would mean building up a new empire under some other patsy, and that's more trouble than assassinating a snitch. Tenebrais fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Aug 30, 2013 |
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Aug 30, 2013 15:53
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Blackheart posted:This reminds me, I'd assume a big fat red dragon is a pretty powerful creature isn't it? How much of a hard time would the order have fighting one? (not necessarily the empress) Since I know very little about D&D I don't know if they ever become trivial to deal with at higher levels. For example, are Tarquin and co. actually risking something manipulating the empress, or would they easily kill and replace her if she ever got unruly? In this case, the dragon's a moron, Taqruin and co. would be forewarned, and they wouldn't be fighting in her lair. Easy kill.
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Aug 30, 2013 15:56
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I assume Roy and co. would have a relatively easy time too, then. My silly assumption was that every red dragon was automatically more powerful than the other chromatic ones, but evidently black dragon mom was way more powerful (and also had magic tricks up her sleeves).
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Aug 30, 2013 16:07
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CapnAndy posted:That made me curious as to how the Order's doing, level-wise, and luckily we've gotten something actually pretty recent to play detective with. The original plan for Girard's Gate involved summoning an Astral Deva by casting Planar Ally. That's a 6th level spell, and Durkon says that if they wait until dawn to start casting it, he can cast it five or six times in a row. You don't get 5 6th level spell slots until level 17. Durkon isn't remotely 17th level. He'd have access to 9th level spells at that point (hell, Redcloak only recently got there), and I don't think he's even used any eighth level spells yet. (One of which is greater planar ally, which he definitely would have gone for.) Based on the fact that he already had planar ally prepared (the devil he summoned), I believe his "wait until dawn" comment meant that he was going to cast the copy/copies of the spell he had already prepared, then immediately pray for new spells and cast another few. Granted, the spell lasts for days so it's not strictly necessary, but that's the best way to make sense of his comment. fake edit: just checked the GITP number-crunching thread, and Durkon is level 15.
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Aug 30, 2013 16:20
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Blackheart posted:I assume Roy and co. would have a relatively easy time too, then. My silly assumption was that every red dragon was automatically more powerful than the other chromatic ones, but evidently black dragon mom was way more powerful (and also had magic tricks up her sleeves). Yeah, it's based on age. Not size as the Empress of Blood thinks. Growing older makes a dragon bigger and more powerful. Gorging yourself just makes you big, not old and old is what gives you spellcasting. Red Dragon > Blue > Green > Black > White within any given age category but an Old dragon of any color beats a Young Adult dragon every time, even if it's an Old White and a Young Adult Red.
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Aug 30, 2013 16:23
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CapnAndy posted:It'd be easy enough. What makes dragons scary are how smart they are. If you know you're going to fight a dragon you can just load up on spells to make sure you get to ignore all their attacks, which is why most dragon fights either take place when the party isn't expecting it or in the dragon's lair, where any dragon worth their scales has built in plenty of nasty surprises for adventurers over-specializing their protective spells. Hiding in plain sight maybe? Is it possible to have several giant layers of fat doubling as a dragon's lair or filled with protective spells? I'm kidding. Stop thinking about it.
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Aug 30, 2013 16:26
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Blackheart posted:This reminds me, I'd assume a big fat red dragon is a pretty powerful creature isn't it? That's what she assumes, too!
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Aug 30, 2013 16:39
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The masked guy sure is very confident to outright tell a dragon to shut up and have it stick, even if it is a dumb one.
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Aug 30, 2013 16:43
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The Leper Colon V posted:Not frozen, just so high an ECL it takes absurb XP to get another level. I thought this too, but it's only ECL +4, which is way lower than vampire. Liches can adventure and level fairly easily, especially since defeat isn't the end for them.
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Aug 30, 2013 16:49
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ZearothK posted:The masked guy sure is very confident to outright tell a dragon to shut up and have it stick, even if it is a dumb one. The masked guy is Miron Shrewdank, the guy who sent the ransom note to Haley. With an ID on Laurin the Psion, we're only missing the names of the catgirl assassin and the burly fighter-type in Tarquin's crew.
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Aug 30, 2013 16:55
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jng2058 posted:The masked guy is Miron Shrewdank, the guy who sent the ransom note to Haley. With an ID on Laurin the Psion, we're only missing the names of the catgirl assassin and the burly fighter-type in Tarquin's crew. Now for the ultimate reveal, it'll turn out Tarquin's other fighter-type is the father of Thog.
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Aug 30, 2013 17:40
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Mystic Mongol posted:I thought this too, but it's only ECL +4, which is way lower than vampire. Liches can adventure and level fairly easily, especially since defeat isn't the end for them. Which, in fact, is exactly what Xykon does. My assumption is that he gets close to leveling, then vanishes to top off his experience with soome massacre somewhere, then comes back home with "new tricks".
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Aug 30, 2013 17:54
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Vampires can't adventure well since they need to stay within a few miles of their coffin to take advantage of their strongest power (being very hard to kill). Liches however can teleport across the world, die and come back.
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Aug 30, 2013 18:08
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peak debt posted:Vampires can't adventure well since they need to stay within a few miles of their coffin to take advantage of their strongest power (being very hard to kill). Liches however can teleport across the world, die and come back. Durkon is a coffinless vampire at the moment, too. So, unless he gets ashed, I'd expect them to just raise him instead.
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Aug 30, 2013 18:18
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peak debt posted:Vampires can't adventure well since they need to stay within a few miles of their coffin to take advantage of their strongest power (being very hard to kill). Liches however can teleport across the world, die and come back. jng2058 posted:Which, in fact, is exactly what Xykon does. My assumption is that he gets close to leveling, then vanishes to top off his experience with soome massacre somewhere, then comes back home with "new tricks". On the one hand, yes, but on the other hand, for as long as Redcloak's been "One-Eye", Xykon hasn't been able to take advantage of the whole "undying" thing because he didn't actually know where his phylactery was. Additionally, he even said that when he was kicking off over that time was just to create his extradimensional phylactery repository. And once he got it back, they went to drop it off, and then appeared to go pretty much directly to the next Gate. Combine that with his apparent boredom during the initial Gobbotopia creation, and I think it's pretty fair to estimate that he hasn't gained a single level since his encounter with Roy. He probably didn't even get XP for the ghost-martyrs, since it was Miko that actually banished them.
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Aug 30, 2013 18:27
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greatn posted:The snarl is Keith Baker and his publication of Eberron will destroy rich's chance of having his homebrew world published. Start of Darkness already debunked this.
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Aug 30, 2013 19:22
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Ursine Asylum posted:On the one hand, yes, but on the other hand, for as long as Redcloak's been "One-Eye", Xykon hasn't been able to take advantage of the whole "undying" thing because he didn't actually know where his phylactery was. Additionally, he even said that when he was kicking off over that time was just to create his extradimensional phylactery repository. And once he got it back, they went to drop it off, and then appeared to go pretty much directly to the next Gate. Combine that with his apparent boredom during the initial Gobbotopia creation, and I think it's pretty fair to estimate that he hasn't gained a single level since his encounter with Roy. He probably didn't even get XP for the ghost-martyrs, since it was Miko that actually banished them. Oh you're certainly correct about the most recent example...that was made clear at the time. However, look at what Redcloak was saying about it being part of Xykon's pattern. He up and vanishes for a while and comes back stronger, So sure, he' probably about the same level now as he was at Azure City, he does make sure to wander off on leveling trips when the time is right. Technically, though, Redcloak is the one who banished most of the ghost-martyrs. It was only Soon who was still around to lose his link to the material world when Miko detonated the Gate.
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Aug 30, 2013 19:23
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Mystic Mongol posted:I thought this too, but it's only ECL +4, which is way lower than vampire. Liches can adventure and level fairly easily, especially since defeat isn't the end for them. He's still at least an ECL 25 right now, which may make it hard to find anything that actually gives him XP.
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Aug 30, 2013 19:37
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W.T. Fits posted:Start of Darkness already debunked this. It debunked that specifically? Ha, I was only making a joke.
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Aug 30, 2013 19:46
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