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It's almost like those in power will use whatever means available to them to make sure they hold onto that power and ethnic/cultural divides are a very handy tool for that.
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Mar 12, 2014 22:25
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Benito Hitlerstalin posted:Seeing as how Norway was quite literally dominated by foreign (white European) powers up until 1905 and subsequently invaded during WW2 that assertion, in regards to Norway, at least, seems dubious at best. SickZip posted:Ethnic cohesion has a really strong record when it comes to making a nation more cohesive and capable of building the kind of institutions that lead to a strong economy. Things like funding to schools, willingness to invest in infrastructure, social capital and engagement, the public's willingness to engage in collective action all have a negative correlation with ethnic diversity in places from America to Africa to Southeast Asia to nearly everywhere studied.
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Mar 12, 2014 22:32
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Dusseldorf posted:It lists buying power and the Netherlands is expensive. Would it cause that stark of a difference? The rest of Northern Europe is pretty expensive too - that map just makes the Dutch look poor or something, which runs contrary to everything I've heard. SickZip posted:Ethnic cohesion has a really strong record when it comes to making a nation more cohesive and capable of building the kind of institutions that lead to a strong economy. Things like funding to schools, willingness to invest in infrastructure, social capital and engagement, the public's willingness to engage in collective action all have a negative correlation with ethnic diversity in places from America to Africa to Southeast Asia to nearly everywhere studied. But what does it have to do with being white specifically? quote:when your country is 90% of one ethnicity (and you're white, on top of that) AreWeDrunkYet fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Mar 12, 2014 |
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Mar 12, 2014 22:33
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IceAgeComing posted:Its definitely getting better though; those figures are 2006 (there are newer ones available but I liked that map; the trend is the same though), and in the early 90s it was universally below 70 in Scotland... Wow, that's extremely low. Things sure have improved a lot since then and it's good to hear it's getting even better! 
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Mar 12, 2014 22:41
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:Would it cause that stark of a difference? The rest of Northern Europe is pretty expensive too - that map just makes the Dutch look poor or something, which runs contrary to everything I've heard. Linked map since it's interactive: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/gmaps.jsp Fake edit: Eh, the exact numbers depend on which exact measurement you choose, but the trend holds. Unsurprisingly, including rent pushes everyone down, since it's calibrated to New York standards.
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Mar 12, 2014 22:43
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rscott posted:It's almost like those in power will use whatever means available to them to make sure they hold onto that power and ethnic/cultural divides are a very handy tool for that. I don't think it's anything like this, I think it's just that people have a tendency to distrust anyone who doesn't look like them or have a similar background and hence are more reluctant to fund things like social welfare because they think that
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Mar 12, 2014 22:46
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rscott posted:It's almost like those in power will use whatever means available to them to make sure they hold onto that power and ethnic/cultural divides are a very handy tool for that. Its almost like people instantly reach facile answers to complicated phenomenon based upon what makes them comfortable. The huge declines in social cohesion you see in America that took off with the end of segregation occurred despite the government and occurred most strongly in areas of activity that the government was not involved in and could not care the least about (ie amateur sports leagues and such).
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Mar 12, 2014 23:53
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computer parts posted:Less likely to be invaded by Europeans.  Torrannor posted:
Also one of the reasons Catalans and Basques want Autonomy. khwarezm fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Mar 13, 2014 |
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Mar 13, 2014 01:57
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:But what does it have to do with being white specifically? They're less likely to be conquered and oppressed for hundreds of years, and even when they are, it's unlikely to be to the same degree that non-whites suffered. Like yeah, it happens, but it's a hell of a lot less likely than if you're some poor loving African or Asian or American society when suddenly these odd sails appear on the horizon.
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Mar 13, 2014 07:16
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I didn't realize that Greece is still doing so much better than the rest of the Balkans.
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Mar 13, 2014 07:32
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Lycus posted:I didn't realize that Greece is still doing so much better than the rest of the Balkans. Well it has been apart of the European Union since 1981 so it did have a bit of a head start even if it has been a basket case since 2008.
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Mar 13, 2014 07:52
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It's all the olive oil. Does wonders for longevity, I hear. Or at least so says like every "worlds oldest" blank.
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Mar 13, 2014 07:59
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SickZip posted:Ethnic cohesion has a really strong record when it comes to making a nation more cohesive and capable of building the kind of institutions that lead to a strong economy. Switzerland would like a word with you. Conversely, so would Somalia. Really, you're oversimplifying this. It's possible for a person to have different overlapping national identities that in turn might be connected to a different ethnicity.
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Mar 13, 2014 09:56
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How come nobody mentions that the Iberian peninsula is literally crying in that picture?
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Mar 13, 2014 11:47
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spot_the_greater_metropolitan_capital_area_of_poland.png
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Mar 13, 2014 12:40
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Norwegians like to pretend they were uniquely mistreated by Denmark, but I don't believe that was really true. Mostly because we're talking about an old-school non-democratic monarchy, which didn't really care about the lack of development in the provinces as long as it didn't threaten the state overall. Norway was basically in the same boat as Jutland during this period, only diverging when the Swedes took Norway in 1814, at which point Norway got to run itself to some degree. Jutland on the other hand was essentially ignored by Copenhagen until 1864, a few token efforts and the occasional uprising aside, at which point the vastly diminished Danish state finally started to care about it to some degree. Tell me more about how occupying the power of a foreign country (and then handing that country over to another country) is the same as maybe not governing properly within your own mainland state. 
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Mar 13, 2014 12:55
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Trench_Rat posted:spot_the_greater_metropolitan_capital_area_of_poland.png It's kind of cool how you can pick out major cities and urban areas on the map in most places. I can see what I'm guessing are the capitals of all three Baltic countries, Kiev, and Budapest, all picked out by their higher purchasing power.
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Mar 13, 2014 13:03
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Redeye Flight posted:It's kind of cool how you can pick out major cities and urban areas on the map in most places. I can see what I'm guessing are the capitals of all three Baltic countries, Kiev, and Budapest, all picked out by their higher purchasing power. Germany and Italy really mess with the pattern.
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Mar 13, 2014 13:10
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It's fascinating that you still can kind of see traces of the east-west divide in Germany.
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Mar 13, 2014 13:22
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Portugal is really not doing too well, huh? Only blue west of the Oder–Neisse.
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Mar 13, 2014 13:34
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DarkCrawler posted:Portugal is really not doing too well, huh? Only blue west of the Oder–Neisse. They're only 60% urban.
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Mar 13, 2014 13:36
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In that case, does it mean that it'd be a lot cheaper, if say I wanted to take a trip overseas to somewhere in Western Europe, to travel to Portugal or Spain? As a poor graduate student, I've always wanted to visit Europe, but was always intimidated by the cost.
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Mar 13, 2014 14:20
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DrSunshine posted:In that case, does it mean that it'd be a lot cheaper, if say I wanted to take a trip overseas to somewhere in Western Europe, to travel to Portugal or Spain? As a poor graduate student, I've always wanted to visit Europe, but was always intimidated by the cost. Yeah. Most anywhere south of Rome (other than big resort areas like Capri) is cheap too.
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Mar 13, 2014 14:30
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DrSunshine posted:In that case, does it mean that it'd be a lot cheaper, if say I wanted to take a trip overseas to somewhere in Western Europe, to travel to Portugal or Spain? As a poor graduate student, I've always wanted to visit Europe, but was always intimidated by the cost. Hell yes. It was over a decade ago, but my last backpacking trip through Europe I stopped at hotels in Amsterdam and Frankfurt and paid about $70-$100 while an equally furnished room at a pension in downtown Lisbon (prime location) was less than $20. Also Spain and Portugal have amazing weather, architecture, and history.
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Mar 13, 2014 14:43
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ulvir posted:Tell me more about how occupying the power of a foreign country (and then handing that country over to another country) is the same as maybe not governing properly within your own mainland state. In regards to "handing over", what should the king of Denmark have done? The people telling him to give up Norway to Sweden were the leaders of the UK, Prussia, Austria, Russia, and Sweden. Besides, the crown prince certainly didn't just cave in, he helped ensure Norway get about the best possible deal they could, given their precarious position. DrSunshine posted:In that case, does it mean that it'd be a lot cheaper, if say I wanted to take a trip overseas to somewhere in Western Europe, to travel to Portugal or Spain? As a poor graduate student, I've always wanted to visit Europe, but was always intimidated by the cost.
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Mar 13, 2014 14:50
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Old James posted:Hell yes. Hey now, we have amazing architecture and history here in Germany, too  But yes, it is a lot cheaper.
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Mar 13, 2014 14:54
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Italy is pretty much that Bugs Bunny Florida gif, at least if you ask the Lega nord.
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Mar 13, 2014 15:20
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ulvir posted:It's fascinating that you still can kind of see traces of the east-west divide in Germany. Much less than I expected, honestly. In fact, East Germany seems to have about as much purchasing power as the Netherlands. Would be interesting if the map had a date.
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Mar 13, 2014 15:36
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Torrannor posted:Hey now, we have amazing architecture and history here in Germany, too You still see the east-west divide in costs of travel (food, accommodation, etc) in Germany too, which I found interesting.
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Mar 13, 2014 15:52
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DrSunshine posted:In that case, does it mean that it'd be a lot cheaper, if say I wanted to take a trip overseas to somewhere in Western Europe, to travel to Portugal or Spain? As a poor graduate student, I've always wanted to visit Europe, but was always intimidated by the cost. Go to Greece. It's got amazing history* and it is sooooo cheap. Just really absurdly cheap. Portugal and Spain are also amazing but Greece is even cheaper. So good. *Note: most of that history has been exported to other nations.
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Mar 13, 2014 15:52
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Shbobdb posted:Go to Greece. It's got amazing history* and it is sooooo cheap. Just really absurdly cheap. Portugal and Spain are also amazing but Greece is even cheaper. So good.
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Mar 13, 2014 16:01
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Shbobdb posted:Go to Greece. It's got amazing history* and it is sooooo cheap. Just really absurdly cheap. Portugal and Spain are also amazing but Greece is even cheaper. So good. Yes, but I am an Asian dude and I heard about what happened to that one Asian dude in Greece! Golden Dawn is scary!!  EDIT: Old James posted:Hell yes. That actually sounds pretty sweet! I'm from California so the weather should be pretty familiar to me. Thanks for the tips guys! DrSunshine fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Mar 13, 2014 |
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Mar 13, 2014 16:02
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DrSunshine posted:In that case, does it mean that it'd be a lot cheaper, if say I wanted to take a trip overseas to somewhere in Western Europe, to travel to Portugal or Spain? As a poor graduate student, I've always wanted to visit Europe, but was always intimidated by the cost. Prague, Krakow, Budapest and Slovenia is also a pretty good route with manageble distances - you get some really great cities and a bit of the Alps. Just stay out of Austria and the tourist traps in Italy and you'll be fine.
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Mar 13, 2014 16:18
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Bosnia's real cheap too, had a wonderful time last summer in Mostar, Sarajevo, and surrounding countryside.
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Mar 13, 2014 16:29
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Are you sure Greece is cheaper? The map I linked earlier makes it seem like that's not true (Groceries in most Greek cities are 50% more expensive than in Malaga), and it certainly seemed cheaper when I was in Andalusia. Greece also has ravenous Nazis/dogs, if you don't like being (b)eaten. I'm just going off personal experience . . . personal experience that is also pre-Olympics. Plus the whole Nazi-thing is an understandable turn-off.
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Mar 13, 2014 16:51
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Your position here is one that assumes the Oldenburg monarchy was a nation state, which it absolutely wasn't. It was a conglomeration of primarily Danish, Norwegian, and German territory, with Copenhagen at the center, ruled by Germans. The use of "occupying" is also ridiculous, unless you think Scotland is currently occupied by the UK. As for the whole "mainland state" thing, have you looked at Denmark? It's a bunch of territory connected by sea, so how does Norway really stand out? The idea that water separates is a pretty modern invention, until recently it connected. Well, seeing as how it takes even modern ships about a day to sail from Oslo to the coast of Denmark, I'd say Norway stands out from your assorted islands which can reach land pretty swiftly, actually. All I was hinting at is that the stance that Norwegians should stop feeling displeased with 300 years of Danish rule and 85 years of Swedish rule because "hey, some citizens in Denmark wasn't all happy either!" is a kind of a odd one. And since Scotland is about to hold a Referendum this year, it would seem that a significant portion of the population want the English to sod off and let Scotland be sovereign. But thanks for the cliff-noted history lesson about Denmark, though. Wasn't aware of the nuances there. As for the "handing over" comment, that wasn't meant all too serious. I'm aware of what the Napoleonic wars entailed. Not eventually doing what the other powers wanted would make things bad for all involved parties.
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Mar 13, 2014 19:01
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ulvir posted:Well, seeing as how it takes even modern ships about a day to sail from Oslo to the coast of Denmark, I'd say Norway stands out from your assorted islands which can reach land pretty swiftly, actually. ulvir posted:All I was hinting at is that the stance that Norwegians should stop feeling displeased with 300 years of Danish rule and 85 years of Swedish rule because "hey, some citizens in Denmark wasn't all happy either!" is a kind of a odd one. ulvir posted:And since Scotland is about to hold a Referendum this year, it would seem that a significant portion of the population want the English to sod off and let Scotland be sovereign. *Well, it would be better if they had remained and had been able to impose their progressive constitution on Denmark, but I wouldn't deny a people the right to their own state. ulvir posted:But thanks for the cliff-noted history lesson about Denmark, though. Wasn't aware of the nuances there. As for the "handing over" comment, that wasn't meant all too serious. I'm aware of what the Napoleonic wars entailed. Not eventually doing what the other powers wanted would make things bad for all involved parties. A Buttery Pastry fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Mar 13, 2014 |
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Mar 13, 2014 19:45
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computer parts posted:Less likely to be invaded by Europeans. After 1945, perhaps.
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Mar 13, 2014 22:01
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:After 1945, perhaps. Though to be fair, while WW2 reduced much of the continent to rubble and killed an unbelievable number of people, this is still not quite the level of destruction that the indigenous societies of America suffered.
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Mar 13, 2014 22:18
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Shbobdb posted:I'm just going off personal experience . . . personal experience that is also pre-Olympics. Plus the whole Nazi-thing is an understandable turn-off. Having gone to Greece this very summer, I can guarantee the nazis are being overblown in Greece. It's like not going to the UK because the EDL scares you. Friendly reminder the communist party is still more popular than the Golden Dawn. And all of the other parties are more popular than either.
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Mar 13, 2014 23:29
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