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Trying to remember what happened during a roll where you got submitted and figure out what went wrong and how to improve next time. Easier said then done when you're exhausted
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Aug 1, 2018 19:20
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 13:26 |
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I've always had a tough time picking a specific part of my game to work on, especially while sparring. Every time I show up to practice with a game plan it almost always goes straight out the window, and it's not rare to find I've gone the whole practice without once working the technique/position I intended to focus on. I suppose it's holding me back in a way but I enjoy taking whatever opportunity looks best to me, even if it's something I'm not particularly good at, rather than forcing a certain move or position because it's my "A-game."
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Aug 1, 2018 19:24
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spb posted:Trying to remember what happened during a roll where you got submitted and figure out what went wrong and how to improve next time. Easier said then done when you're exhausted If you got submitted a lot of things went wrong. Shouldnt be hard to find one.
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Aug 1, 2018 19:25
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Count Roland posted:How do you guys decide what to get better at? What do you suck at? Start there. My NoGi stand up game sucks, so this morning I focused on that with all my training partners, and guess what? They get better too. Everyone concentrating on what they suck at exposes everyone else to it as well. Its built into the fact that everyone is getting better because they are in a group.
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Aug 1, 2018 19:29
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spb posted:Trying to remember what happened during a roll where you got submitted and figure out what went wrong and how to improve next time. Easier said then done when you're exhausted I keep a notebook for this sort of thing. The "things to work on" category is pretty extensive and getting longer.
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Aug 1, 2018 19:35
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spb posted:Trying to remember what happened during a roll where you got submitted and figure out what went wrong and how to improve next time. Easier said then done when you're exhausted You could always ask your partner as well. "Hey, I've been working on my half-guard game and you just walked right through it. Can we workshop that a few minutes after class?" goes a long way.
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Aug 1, 2018 19:47
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If you get submitted "Hey, how did you catch me with that and what's a good defense" If you get your guard passed "Hey, how do I stop that pass" These are your training partners, ask them to teach you something.
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Aug 1, 2018 19:49
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spb posted:Trying to remember what happened during a roll where you got submitted and figure out what went wrong and how to improve next time. Easier said then done when you're exhausted It’s easier to remember your rolls if you’re using a small number of positions/sweeps/passes/submissions. My memory with regards to rolling has greatly improved since I started specializing. Because I’m always going over the same pathways, aberrations really stick out, and they rattle around in my head for a few days (Aberrations as in ‘why didn’t that pass work’ or ‘how did he escape that position’ or whatever)
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Aug 1, 2018 23:36
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Count Roland posted:How do you guys decide what to get better at? I started with half guard because I always ended up there whether I planned to or not. My closed guard would get broken and they'd pass to half. If I was in a bad position, I'd escape to half. I realized both that I already spent a lot of time there and that it's an easy position to obtain. Eventually I got pretty good at it. I now pull people into half guard as my preferred starting point. With that as the base of my game, I just started choosing pieces that I could connect to the existing stuff. I would get sweeps regularly and then hold people in side control without any reliable submissions, so I started working on attacks from side control. Some people shut down my half guard game, so I started on transitions to different guards. I try to add new techniques when I find myself getting stuck somewhere regularly or when the existing moves are hitting consistently. My game has little to do with the things demonstrated in class. My style and preferences are just different than what is shown a lot of the time. I look for moves that relate to the positions that come up during rolling and I ask instructors or watch videos to add to my toolbox.
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Aug 2, 2018 03:43
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Just work the techniques your instructor goes over. Nothing better than hitting the move of the day.
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Aug 2, 2018 04:08
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:It’s easier to remember your rolls if you’re using a small number of positions/sweeps/passes/submissions. My memory with regards to rolling has greatly improved since I started specializing. Because I’m always going over the same pathways, aberrations really stick out, and they rattle around in my head for a few days (Aberrations as in ‘why didn’t that pass work’ or ‘how did he escape that position’ or whatever) I thought I replied to this earlier but I guess i didn't actually post it. This has more or less been my experience. Lately I've been narrowing my game down to three basic attack patterns which have become really high percentage for me as I practice them, but I went and visited my club's HQ and someone stuffed a kimura once I thought I was past the goal line on it, which hadn't happened to me yet on tha particular sequence. We sat and talked about kimuras and various attack patterns for like 10 minutes afterward.
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Aug 2, 2018 04:15
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My entire game right now is half guard, with four pathways. 1. Near Leg: Underhook/Leite sweep 2. Near Arm: Arm-drag to backtake 3. Far arm: Kimura 4. Far leg: Kneebar or X-guard sweep. I want the underhook sweep, but if it’s not there I feel for whatever the most available limb is. If I get on top I get a Kimura from side control or north south. It’s been going really well for me. My side control, mount and back escapes all lead me into half-guard. There’s obviously all sorts of weird conditional stuff that happens, but I’m not straying from that path until I’m forced to deviate by a skilled opponent.
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Aug 2, 2018 05:04
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I would generally encourage people to not try to develop too much of a "game" until they have quite a bit of experience. Focus on developing a well-rounded skillset first, then see what works for you and decide on which areas you should spend time trying to develop further.
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Aug 2, 2018 05:21
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:My entire game right now is half guard, with four pathways. I'm envisioning my game right now as a pyramid where I always have two basic options of these three: kimura series, front headlock series, & leg poo poo. When I'm standing above someone's open guard I'm playing headlock/leg poo poo, when I'm on top of someone I'm playing headlock/kimura, and when I'm on the bottom I'm playing kimura/leg poo poo. And of course the eye of the illuminati is back control. Obviously there are lots of branches down any of these paths - it's just the mental labels I've been using for them. I discovered this playground when I realized that they open each other up - e.g. someone* who is worried about my bottom half kimura will often be sloppy with the legs, or even just start moving in ways that let me get out and work for top control. *of my approximate skill level I should start subdividing each position a bit more like you have and organize the way i t hink about the game a bit more. I'm very much a "take what they give me" grappler under most circumstances, though I've really started to prioritize getting on top (or even better, never being on bottom) because I'm sick of being squashed by big dudes. e. wrt Mechafunkzilla's comment - yeah this isn't too formal. It's just what has been working for me lately.
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Aug 2, 2018 05:28
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I just pick things that catch me in rolling. Mostly its veen collar chokes so watch vids on the various defenses then put myself in those situations. For submissions I try to find different ones from a position I tend to find myself in and basically only work those. I've been trying to get a Von Flue Choke off or like 2 months now. 
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Aug 2, 2018 06:08
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Mekchu posted:I just pick things that catch me in rolling. Mostly its veen collar chokes so watch vids on the various defenses then put myself in those situations. For submissions I try to find different ones from a position I tend to find myself in and basically only work those. Von Flue's happen a whole lot against guys that do bad guillotines that sit down immediately and let you go to side control. I don't know how you roll but if you go for lovely doubles on guys, you'll be guillotined and Von Fluing a lot.
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Aug 2, 2018 06:19
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We dont spar starting on the feet so I rarely am caught in guillotine situations. I do try to set the Von Flue from side position so maybe I'm screwing up where my bicep area is being placed. I usually have just used the attempt to set up taking mount.
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Aug 2, 2018 07:22
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Mechafunkzilla posted:I would generally encourage people to not try to develop too much of a "game" until they have quite a bit of experience. Focus on developing a well-rounded skillset first, then see what works for you and decide on which areas you should spend time trying to develop further. I don't know about that. That sounds great in theory, but as CommonShore and 02-6611-0142-1 mentioned above, it's easier to make progress if you reduce the move set. You only get so many rolls per week. If you focus on a few moves, you'll get better at those moves. If you try to incorporate every move, you'll still be lovely at all of them. I tried for years to "take whatever was there" and use the full list of moves shown to me. I improved a lot faster once I started consciously building a game. You can always change games over time, and if you're thoughtful about your development, you'll end up expanding and rounding out your game as far as it needs to go anyway.
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Aug 2, 2018 08:46
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Question If Carlos Gracie is the father of BJJ what started the whole "every gracie starts with R" trend
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Aug 2, 2018 14:49
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Question Helio thought it was a magic letter and named all of his kids with it.
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Aug 2, 2018 15:07
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Why isn't it spelled Relio though.
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Aug 2, 2018 15:09
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butros posted:Why isn't it spelled Relio though. Because R and H are still different phonemes in Portuguese, even if they sound similar to an English ear ("R" has a bit of a throat-clearing in it). Why are Cindy and Steve different letters?
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Aug 2, 2018 15:14
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CommonShore posted:Because R and H are still different phonemes in Portuguese, even if they sound similar to an English ear ("R" has a bit of a throat-clearing in it). I learned something today! Also, back to the prior topic - dumb one year white belt here but in the past months I have been trying to discipline myself to approach rolling as follows: 1. Defend the sub 2. Reguard 3. Pass guard 4. Advance position 5. Maintain position 6. Attempt submission When rolling with blues belts and up, I tend to have a redirect loop cycling through 1-3 multiple times per roll. When rolling with whites at about my skill level / training duration, I spend most time in 2-5. When rolling with new guys it's 3-6. There are certain techniques I do try to go for in each position, but I am trying to be a bit more conceptual when trying to reverse or advance position and be thoughtful about what is happening and why. For example: a. Trying to pass half-guard - what is preventing the pass - how do I circumvent/overcome my opponent's defensive technique? b. Trying to sweep - what parts of my opponents body I need to control to off-balance them and prevent them from basing, and how I need to position my body to gain that control? c. Trying to take the back - is there a path to the back from where I am? If there is something in the way, how do I circumvent / remove it? d. Trying to maintain position - if my opponent keeps escaping the same way when I pass into side control, what is allowing them to hit that escape? How do I neutralize that while maintaining or advancing position? What I've found is that I actually have a bit more success approaching positions from a conceptual standpoint than always trying to hit moves or passes as I've drilled them, and particularly I'm trying to get away at this point from targeting a specific move when I enter a roll. Sometimes I do hit stuff exactly as it was shown to me or I do hit a sub that's been on my mind, but I'm also starting to be able to react a bit better to what's in front of me and have noticed that some of my sweeps or passes are becoming a bit more intuitive, and I am not always able to articulate how or why I pulled something off. butros fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Aug 2, 2018 |
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Aug 2, 2018 15:34
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CommonShore posted:Why are Cindy and Steve different letters? Holy poo poo
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Aug 2, 2018 17:17
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Ghoti bitches Ghoti
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Aug 2, 2018 17:21
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FreakyMetalKid posted:I don't know about that. That sounds great in theory, but as CommonShore and 02-6611-0142-1 mentioned above, it's easier to make progress if you reduce the move set. You only get so many rolls per week. If you focus on a few moves, you'll get better at those moves. If you try to incorporate every move, you'll still be lovely at all of them. I tried for years to "take whatever was there" and use the full list of moves shown to me. I improved a lot faster once I started consciously building a game. You can always change games over time, and if you're thoughtful about your development, you'll end up expanding and rounding out your game as far as it needs to go anyway. I think by well rounded skill set he means be competent in the fundamentals of each position. Know how to advance positions as well as defend and escape and recover. Roger is a perfect example of the basics being used at the highest level. I'm about to get my purple belt and I feel like I probably made a slight mistake (due to injury) on building a complete half guard game because I kinda suck in some other positions that I could have spent my blue belt improving and being competent in.
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Aug 2, 2018 18:50
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I do sometimes wish my school had more explicit advance, escape, defend classes. I kind of just want a month of nothing but "here is how to get into half-guard, here is how to keep him in half guard, here is how he will try to get out of half-guard" etc.
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Aug 2, 2018 18:59
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FreakyMetalKid posted:I started with half guard because I always ended up there whether I planned to or not. My closed guard would get broken and they'd pass to half. If I was in a bad position, I'd escape to half. I realized both that I already spent a lot of time there and that it's an easy position to obtain. Eventually I got pretty good at it. I now pull people into half guard as my preferred starting point. With that as the base of my game, I just started choosing pieces that I could connect to the existing stuff. I would get sweeps regularly and then hold people in side control without any reliable submissions, so I started working on attacks from side control. Some people shut down my half guard game, so I started on transitions to different guards. I try to add new techniques when I find myself getting stuck somewhere regularly or when the existing moves are hitting consistently. My game has little to do with the things demonstrated in class. My style and preferences are just different than what is shown a lot of the time. I look for moves that relate to the positions that come up during rolling and I ask instructors or watch videos to add to my toolbox. Are you me? JaySB posted:I'm about to get my purple belt and I feel like I probably made a slight mistake (due to injury) on building a complete half guard game because I kinda suck in some other positions that I could have spent my blue belt improving and being competent in. I might be biased (see above), but having a developed half guard game isn't such a bad thing; depending on how you conceptualize BJJ positions, it's the only one that's one step away from all of the other major ones, so it's relatively easy to wind up there (or have someone put you there). Might as well be useful when that happens.
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Aug 2, 2018 19:28
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JaySB posted:I think by well rounded skill set he means be competent in the fundamentals of each position. Perhaps. We could be talking about different things. I'd separate "familiar with the basics of each position" from well-rounded skills and competence. The first can happen as a white-belt. Well-rounded skills and competence are somewhere further away. JaySB posted:Roger is a perfect example of the basics being used at the highest level. See, now I think of Roger as an example of exactly what I was talking about. He doesn't use a wide variety of techniques. He is just so great at the moves he does that people can't stop them even when they know they're coming. He definitely emphasized a game over becoming good at everything. JaySB posted:I'm about to get my purple belt and I feel like I probably made a slight mistake (due to injury) on building a complete half guard game because I kinda suck in some other positions that I could have spent my blue belt improving and being competent in. I don't think that's a mistake. It's not like you can't learn to fill those holes now. I definitely have weak areas and there are people of lower rank with more skill in some places, but rather than being better than blue belts everywhere, I like that I have something to challenge black belts with. I can make an interesting roll with a wide range of levels depending on where we play. Against lower guys, I can generally choose to force it into my world (good luck never ending up in half guard!) or give them an opportunity to work theirs. With higher belts, I will lean on the A game. Sometimes it works. Sometimes they avoid it entirely and I get wrecked. Then I try to connect some more pieces to get wrecked differently next time. If I traded half guard skill for moderately improved weaknesses, the rolls would be less interesting on both sides. I'd be less likely to be threatened by a clever blue belt, but I'd also be less likely to scare a black belt into taking me seriously. That doesn't seem fun. I have four stripes on a purple belt in case that's of interest.
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Aug 2, 2018 20:00
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CommonShore posted:I'm envisioning my game right now as a pyramid where I always have two basic options of these three: kimura series, front headlock series, & leg poo poo. When I'm standing above someone's open guard I'm playing headlock/leg poo poo, when I'm on top of someone I'm playing headlock/kimura, and when I'm on the bottom I'm playing kimura/leg poo poo. And of course the eye of the illuminati is back control. I like this approach. I already favor headlocks, and the gym I'm at now loves kimuras from everywhere so I'm eager to learn these. Having sets of controls that works across multiple positions is appealing to me. I'm too raw right now to focus too narrowly; I deeply need to review all my fundamentals. Thus, I've been spending a lot of time getting dominated, as I'd rather be crushed under side control than use some crappy technique to wriggle my way out. I'm really trying to do basic survival/escape things the proper, technical way because I know it will help me later on. Tonight I'm going to focus on kimuras, and maintaining half guard. Or at least try too-- if it goes like my last gi class I'll be spending most my time tapping to bow and arrow chokes. Mel Mudkiper posted:I do sometimes wish my school had more explicit advance, escape, defend classes. I kind of just want a month of nothing but "here is how to get into half-guard, here is how to keep him in half guard, here is how he will try to get out of half-guard" etc. Same. Schools frequently have a scatter-shot approach to teaching and its to everyone's detriment.
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Aug 2, 2018 20:30
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Count Roland posted:I like this approach. I already favor headlocks, and the gym I'm at now loves kimuras from everywhere so I'm eager to learn these. Having sets of controls that works across multiple positions is appealing to me. It sounds like you need to stop conceding bad positions. That was a bad habit of mine for a long time (and still is, occasionally, as when something goes sideways I have a habit of replaying the moment in my head to figure out what happened, which lets my opponent sink the position and secure it). I used to, when someone would (for example) smash my knee shield, go "oh well, I guess I'm playing shoulder-on-face bottom half now." :itif: Does that sound familar to you? Once I started turning every little inch of those lovely positions into fights, I started getting dominated way less in them, and that's when I started finding my kimuras from the bottom We were talking about "assignments" a while ago - yours should be to never loving concede bad positions.
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Aug 2, 2018 20:39
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CommonShore posted:It sounds like you need to stop conceding bad positions. That was a bad habit of mine for a long time (and still is, occasionally, as when something goes sideways I have a habit of replaying the moment in my head to figure out what happened, which lets my opponent sink the position and secure it). I used to, when someone would (for example) smash my knee shield, go "oh well, I guess I'm playing shoulder-on-face bottom half now." :itif: Does that sound familar to you? Once I started turning every little inch of those lovely positions into fights, I started getting dominated way less in them, and that's when I started finding my kimuras from the bottom No, I don't let them get an inch, if I can help it. But I'm working on not scrambling all the time, and instead minding my Ps and Qs to defend efficiently. I'm still quite persistent. I'm getting dominated because I've had 5 classes at this new school and the last time I trained was in like 2013. There are many, many problems in my game but conceding is not one of them.
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Aug 2, 2018 20:49
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Count Roland posted:I'd rather be crushed under side control than use some crappy technique to wriggle my way out. Learn the ghost escape, it's like wriggling out from under side control  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9B-lIEof8o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZKFobk8vOQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvGxWO0IbQc
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Aug 2, 2018 20:54
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starkebn posted:Learn the ghost escape, it's like wriggling out from under side control Looks nice, I'll put that on the list.
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Aug 2, 2018 21:10
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Question for Yuns: The rotational RNC finishes that Danaher espouse on his Back Attack DVD look pretty throat-crushy. Are they all blood, all throat crush, or a combination of the two? Is it the kind of thing where "if it hurts, you're doing it wrong" or is it more like "a tap's a tap"?
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Aug 3, 2018 10:33
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:Question for Yuns:
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Aug 3, 2018 11:16
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Excellent, thank you.
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Aug 3, 2018 11:54
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butros posted:
When it comes to holding side control (works for mount as well) position a big part is controlling the head with cross face pressure. If you cross face well you’ve guaranteed they cannot turn into you unless the loosen you up. I like to get my top arm under the neck and inch my hand to their armpit and hook it. I learned that from this tiny chubby black belt who would frequently tap people using this sort of pressure by then going to this modified knee on belly while keeping that hold, curling you up to where you literally cannot breathe. The pressure you can put on someone with very little effort is incredible. Though anything you can do to keep control of their head and keep their neck twisted and back on the mat limits their mobility. This leads into trying to take the back since you’re giving them only one way out, which is giving up the back and attempting to turtle. Taking the back in my experience is mostly exploiting a desperate escape or error on their part. Sweeping is mostly about removing their ability to post, I guess I don’t really know enough to generalize more than that. I’ve seen people talk about it like a triangle/pyramid of their posts as the base leg(s) and the center of mass as the top, and then forcing their center to tilt outside the base, right perpendicular to a base leg. This conceptual thing personality hasn’t really done anything for me, but eh. For Tripod sweeps and variants I guess that idea is kinda useful. For scissor sweeps I’m trying to get them to pressure into my knee shield, so I can get their weight onto top of me. For hip up sweeps I need them to plant a hand on the mat or just not be able to stiff arm me so I can pop up with enough force to carry them over. For half guard head control if possible and most importantly not letting them get an underhook. I’m only a blue belt so this is just what I think about. Butter Activities fucked around with this message at 12:12 on Aug 3, 2018 |
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Aug 3, 2018 12:06
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Any recs on good full guard passes to work on? I notice like 75% of my rolls start with me being in the other dudes full guard and I might as well figure out some stuff. It's probably my weakest position in terms of technique and options I am familiar with.
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Aug 3, 2018 12:42
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 13:26 |
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Any recs on good full guard passes to work on? I notice like 75% of my rolls start with me being in the other dudes full guard and I might as well figure out some stuff. It's probably my weakest position in terms of technique and options I am familiar with. Double under. Conceptually simple; mechanically sound.
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Aug 3, 2018 12:49
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