Neon Genesis Evangelion megathread: Death & Rebirth of the author

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Zeruel: Mar 27, 2010; Alert: bad post spotted.

What on earth does she say instead?

# ? Jul 9, 2019 04:50

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# ? May 26, 2024 12:57

Seemlar: Jun 18, 2002

lets hang out posted:

that's pretty much what happens though.

Like they only knew this kid for a few months (?) before he blew the world up 14 years ago. How do you broach this subject with him? Like Kaworu tells him straight out and surprise, Shinji does not take it well and spends the rest of the movie frantically trying to fix everything, which doesn't go well for anyone.

Shinji only interacts with a small number of people directly, and their treatment of him across the board makes sense with what their characters and history are. It's really just Misato's stonewalling in particular that causes the entire problem, especially since it's such a 180 (even if justified) from how she used to be towards him.

# ? Jul 9, 2019 05:51

Origami Dali: Jan 7, 2005; Get ready to fuck!
You fucker's fucker!
You fucker!

Zeruel posted:

What on earth does she say instead?

"Are you two seeing each other or something???"

Meh.

# ? Jul 9, 2019 06:00

The REAL Goobusters: Apr 25, 2008

Seemlar posted:

Shinji only interacts with a small number of people directly, and their treatment of him across the board makes sense with what their characters and history are. It's really just Misato's stonewalling in particular that causes the entire problem, especially since it's such a 180 (even if justified) from how she used to be towards him.

But is it though? Misato throughout the series and the rebuild films is constantly manipulating Shinji to get back into the evangelion to destroy the angels. Sure she does eventually start to actually feel guilty and responsible for this in the show but in rebuild its not really like this. Remember in the show Misato hides from Shinji that Toji was the 4th child. In Rebuild 1 she convinces Shinji to pilot the Eva by showing him Lilith down in Central Dogma and what would happen if an Angel was able to reach it (causing third impact). In Rebuild 2 she still tries to convince Shinji to stay at Nerv after almost killing Asuka. She does show some compassion but and guilt for Shinji but I don't think it was a complete 180, if anything she's pissed at herself for even allowing this to happen. In 3.0 she shows mercy by not using the DSS choker to kill Shinji when she had the chance for example.

E: iirc Misato straight up convinces shinji in EoE and 2.0 to get back into the eva and he starts the third impact in both.

# ? Jul 9, 2019 06:02

readingatwork: Jan 8, 2009; Hello Fatty!; Fun Shoe

3.0 rewatched. I have many, many thoughts...

I liked this one more than I thought I would. It's a hot mess but knowing the major twists going in helps a lot.
I heard production on this one was rushed and I believe it. The GC in this one is worse than in 2.0 and sticks out like a sore thumb. There's lots of good animation to be had but also lots of places things look lazy and dull.
I TOTALLY forgot there was a timeskip and that's probably because it was completely unnecessary.
Asuka lacks any sort of depth in this movie and that's kind of frustrating.
Calling it now. The walkman is Rey somehow.
The opening sequence is strong but the fight that immediately follows should probably have been cut and the time used to give Shinji/Kowaru more to do.
Everyone in this movie is a God damned idiot. There was literally no reason not to tell Shinji why he shouldn't get into an Eva but because they insisted on being assholes Shinji almost blew up the world. In fact, about half this movie felt like one long montage of Shinji getting his questions ignored for no reason.
LOL, "Willy"
This movie sorely needed a grounding element of some kind. Perhaps Shinji and Kowaru could have done the roommate thing in one of the less destroyed sections of NERV and pretended things were normal or something. It's very hard to get invested without anything resembling a relatable human experience to grab onto.
This movie also lacks a sense of location and space which is sad because the previous movies handled this quite well.
Kowaru is the best and makes this movie worth watching. It's still inferior to the original show but I gave a poo poo and felt bad when he ate it.
LOL at Gendo's sunglasses.
The Kowaru/Shinji stuff is great and actually gives the movie a sense of sincerity and thoughtfulness. It feels really short though due to the opening sequence taking up like a quarter of the movie. They really needed to make it longer and have the pair fight an angel or something together before jumping into 4E stuff.
So is NERV just Gendo, Rey and Fuyutsuki now? They really needed to take a few minutes and explain what NERV is now or at least show a few random guards/staff.
I finally think I understand the timeline now. Apparently quite a bit happened before Kowaru shut down 3rd impact. I'm still not sure why Kowaru shut down third impact though since that's what SEELE wanted. I guess it wasn't the right kind of apocalypse???
LOL Shinji's a Gundam villain now.
There's a lot of red, white and blue colors used which makes many scenes feel oddly American.
Um OK bye SEELE. You are all oddly OK with getting betrayed and murdered.
loving LOL at Gendo still using his busted rear end office!
Asuka totally could have prevented the last act of this movie just by screaming "That's going to blow up the world dumbass". WHY DOES NOBODY JUST SAY THINGS!? When Gendo is the character that's most forthright about explaining the world and his intentions you know there's an issue.
Actually maybe not since Kowaru actually does tell Shinji the spears are a trap and he goes and yanks them anyways. God damnit Shinji...
Gendo's plans are ~starting~ to feel convoluted and ridiculous.
Mari I still have no idea why you're here.
There is way less fan-service this time around and I appreciate it.

Overall I liked it but drat did it need another few script revisions and a couple more years to polish up the animation and editing. Onward to 4.0 in like a year and a half!

readingatwork fucked around with this message at 06:22 on Jul 9, 2019

# ? Jul 9, 2019 06:14

Blaziken386: Jun 27, 2013; I'm what the kids call: a big nerd

Origami Dali posted:

The worst thing about the new dub is the unforgivable absence of "baloney pony"

# ? Jul 9, 2019 06:43

Soul Reaver: Mar 8, 2009; in retrospect the old redtext was a little over the top, I think I was in a bad mood that day. it appears you've learned your lesson about slagging our gods and masters at beamdog but I'm still going to leave this av up because i think its funny

god bless

readingatwork posted:

3.0 rewatched. I have many, many thoughts...

Overall I liked it but drat did it need another few script revisions and a couple more years to polish up the animation and editing. Onward to 4.0 in like a year and a half!

Don't forget an Evangelion turning into a cat. That's the newest iteration of 'beast mode' apparently. They turn into cats now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnrK3Bfmuzs&t=816s

# ? Jul 9, 2019 07:13

Milkfred E. Moore: Aug 27, 2006; 'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

readingatwork posted:

3.0 rewatched. I have many, many thoughts...

I finally think I understand the timeline now. Apparently quite a bit happened before Kowaru shut down 3rd impact. I'm still not sure why Kowaru shut down third impact though since that's what SEELE wanted. I guess it wasn't the right kind of apocalypse???
...

Um OK bye SEELE. You are all oddly OK with getting betrayed and murdered.
...

The timeline is:

Shinji makes Unit 01 begin Third Impact. Kaworu stabs him with the spear and stops it. Lillith is still on the cross. The moon is still where it is. The landscape is still basically normal, although it appears the ground above the Geofront has been destroyed. Later, Kaworu also explicitly refers to the underground area containing Lillith's corpse as the center of Third Impact.

Then, in the fourteen years between the second and third films...

Evangelion Mark 6 is turned 'autonomous.'
Two Angels attacked (11 and 12.)
NERV undergoes reorganization with a new logo. After this, Eva Unit 01 is put into space. Presumably linked to what the 2.0 preview said about all the staff being incarcerated.
At some point, Lillith wakes up. This may be due to the 12th Angel. It appears that the UN air force attempted to stop the Angel as far as Lillith's chamber.
Evangelion Mark 6 descended to the chamber, absorbed the Angel into itself (willingly or otherwise), and impaled itself and Lillith with the Spear of Cassius. It's likely that Mark 6 decapitated Lillith as well.
It's unclear what order any of this takes place in, but I feel like the stuff with Lillith would be towards the end of it. There's a whole lot of other details, like the red Evas and Lillith's decapitated head, that don't really add up in any way. The big red Evas are, if I remember right, all copies of Evangelion 01 and they have all been decapitated. Are their skulls the ones at the bottom of Lillith's chamber? Who knows.

As for the apocalypses, yes, there are different types. SEELE evidently shut down Near Third Impact because it didn't meet their goals. The Third Impact in the third film, however, does. This is why they're okay with Gendo killing them as they think their work is being completed. Gendo's plan then seems to rely on Misato and co. stopping Third Impact, meaning he has completely and utterly removed SEELE and their agent, Kaworu, from the board.

Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Jul 9, 2019

# ? Jul 9, 2019 07:38

Xander B Coolridge: Sep 2, 2011

I don't care if it's some ridiculous meta commentary or what, but making your anime movie for the naked purpose of selling toys is really loving dumb.

It doesn't work for Jurassic World and it doesn't work for Eva.

# ? Jul 9, 2019 07:39

Expect My Mom: Nov 18, 2013; by Smythe

I have some really loving bad news for you about GI Joe, Transformers and like every mech show

# ? Jul 9, 2019 08:18

Expect My Mom: Nov 18, 2013; by Smythe

Like Gundam was (and still is) financed partly, if not entirely, by toy companies wanting an anime for their new products.

It extremely does work, I don't know what you're talking about. I listened to a first time Evangelion watching podcast where the guy literally goes "I kinda want a figure of Unit 02" and hell same.

# ? Jul 9, 2019 08:22

Mermaid Autopsy: Jun 9, 2001

Remember Mari is 47 and Kaworu kills kittens and the manga is canon

# ? Jul 9, 2019 08:29

Zore: Sep 21, 2010; willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d�etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Xander B Coolridge posted:

I don't care if it's some ridiculous meta commentary or what, but making your anime movie for the naked purpose of selling toys is really loving dumb.

It doesn't work for Jurassic World and it doesn't work for Eva.

In what way doesn't it work? Eva is one of the most profitable brands in the world off the back of its insane merchandising empire. When I went to a 7-11 in Japan earlier this year they were doing an Eva crossover with a bunch of branded merchandise and it was selling.

Eva's made billions off of that. Similarly Jurassic World made an absolute fuckton of money.

# ? Jul 9, 2019 08:30

Pierson: Oct 31, 2004; College Slice

Zeruel posted:

I love how consistently inconsistent the Eva sizes are. How big is that loving crane if thats Unit 01 standing next to it? How big is that crevasse?? like, a small city?

They go from sometimes being about average Gundam height to colossus the size of skyscrapers it's great.

# ? Jul 9, 2019 08:43

Mermaid Autopsy: Jun 9, 2001

Let's say the comparisons between Anno and Lucas are rather apt

# ? Jul 9, 2019 09:04

Zeruel: Mar 27, 2010; Alert: bad post spotted.

Like poetry, sasuga Anno.

# ? Jul 9, 2019 09:08

Beefstew: Oct 30, 2010; I told you that story so I could tell you this one...

Mermaid Autopsy posted:

Let's say the comparisons between Anno and Lucas are rather apt

I'm not sure I would go that far. Shin Godzilla basically proves that Anno had it and still has it to an extent. I think Rebuild is a weird experiment and I'm excited to see the final outcome.

Though I've had friends compare Anno to Lucas. And Tiffany Grant also made the same comparison really recently, likening the redubs to the SW special editions and subtly implying that the Rebuilds were his prequel trilogy.

# ? Jul 9, 2019 09:12

Weird BIAS: Jul 5, 2007; so... guess that's it, huh? just... don't say i didn't warn you.

That's loving dumb as hell.

# ? Jul 9, 2019 09:14

Lube Enthusiast: May 26, 2016

Rewatching 2.0. Not a fan of the fanservice, and as rad as the final battle is, i wish it didn�t interrupt Rei�s dinner party :allears:

e: I�m looking at the case what the heck this is rated PG

Lube Enthusiast fucked around with this message at 12:12 on Jul 9, 2019

# ? Jul 9, 2019 12:08

Xander B Coolridge: Sep 2, 2011

Zore posted:

In what way doesn't it work? Eva is one of the most profitable brands in the world off the back of its insane merchandising empire. When I went to a 7-11 in Japan earlier this year they were doing an Eva crossover with a bunch of branded merchandise and it was selling.

Eva's made billions off of that. Similarly Jurassic World made an absolute fuckton of money.

It doesn't work critically. Dumb people can like a dumb movie and it can make a fuckton in sales and merch, but there's arguably something more substantial to the first JP movie than there are to any of its sequels.

Obviously I'm speaking subjectivity, but the Evangelion rebuilds feel incredibly hollow. The characters are broad imitations of their first incarnations. Mari or whatever is a garbage, throwaway anime waifu.

Expect My Mom posted:

I have some really loving bad news for you about GI Joe, Transformers and like every mech show

Maybe I'm just a huge loving weeb, but I get a lot more out of Eva and EoE than I do out of GI Joe.

I don't claim to know the intentions behind the creation of the show, but I can observe how the representations of the mechs in the rebuilds of the movies come across as figurine commercials.

Despite the fact that you can get Eva Alpacas because of its original run, I think the series/EoE at least offers a lot to chew on thematically. What's there to be discussed about 3.33?

I wish SMG posted in this sub. I'd take one of his bonkers deconstructions of the movie than literally nothing besides "the cgi was cool"

# ? Jul 9, 2019 13:03

Soul Reaver: Mar 8, 2009; in retrospect the old redtext was a little over the top, I think I was in a bad mood that day. it appears you've learned your lesson about slagging our gods and masters at beamdog but I'm still going to leave this av up because i think its funny

god bless

Zore posted:

In what way doesn't it work? Eva is one of the most profitable brands in the world off the back of its insane merchandising empire. When I went to a 7-11 in Japan earlier this year they were doing an Eva crossover with a bunch of branded merchandise and it was selling.

Eva's made billions off of that. Similarly Jurassic World made an absolute fuckton of money.

I think he means 'creating a show/movie that was designed with selling toys in mind will produce a show/movie that is artistically/thematically bankrupt (ie, it'll be dumb and not very good unless you're after brainless garbage)'

Transformers and GI Joe certainly support that argument.

# ? Jul 9, 2019 13:21

The REAL Goobusters: Apr 25, 2008

3.0 continues to be the most misunderstood part of Evangelion.

# ? Jul 9, 2019 13:22

Milkfred E. Moore: Aug 27, 2006; 'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Xander B Coolridge posted:

I wish SMG posted in this sub. I'd take one of his bonkers deconstructions of the movie than literally nothing besides "the cgi was cool"

SMG is actually talking about Evangelion in CD right now.

quote:

Aight so I�m roughly 3/5th of the way through New Century Evangelion and the standard takes make a lot more sense now; apparently everyone has just tuned out the fact that this is straight-up Michael Bay�s Transformers. Stylistically, thematically.... There�s also a bit of The Island in there, but yes. They�re like Rosetta Stones for eachother.

Like, I can see how you might come away with �no, it�s really about teen depression and PTSD� or �no, it�s really about the deep lore and mythology� - but both conclusions are just actively ignoring or covering up that 80% of the runtime is the objectified female characters loudly soaping eachother up while the protagonist gets a boner and a penguin screams at the boner, humiliating him.

There�s an aggressive stupidity to this series, which reflects how it takes the protagonist roughly two months to ponder where the robots come from. And he�s pondering it like �I wonder how they got these chips to taste like bacon?�

Basically it�s good, but: lol. Maybe anime fans are just desensitized to this stuff?

# ? Jul 9, 2019 14:23

Irony Be My Shield: Jul 29, 2012

I am glad of the relative lack of contrarian idiots in ADTRW.

# ? Jul 9, 2019 14:30

Expect My Mom: Nov 18, 2013; by Smythe

Xander B Coolridge posted:

Maybe I'm just a huge loving weeb, but I get a lot more out of Eva and EoE than I do out of GI Joe.

Okay then what about my second post where I talk Gundam

Like Gundam is contractually obligated to make an episode sometimes where the Gundam has like.......a different gun this time so they can sell that as a variation

# ? Jul 9, 2019 14:34

readingatwork: Jan 8, 2009; Hello Fatty!; Fun Shoe

Milkfred E. Moore posted:

The timeline is:

Shinji makes Unit 01 begin Third Impact. Kaworu stabs him with the spear and stops it. Lillith is still on the cross. The moon is still where it is. The landscape is still basically normal, although it appears the ground above the Geofront has been destroyed. Later, Kaworu also explicitly refers to the underground area containing Lillith's corpse as the center of Third Impact.

Then, in the fourteen years between the second and third films...

Evangelion Mark 6 is turned 'autonomous.'

Two Angels attacked (11 and 12.)

NERV undergoes reorganization with a new logo. After this, Eva Unit 01 is put into space. Presumably linked to what the 2.0 preview said about all the staff being incarcerated.

At some point, Lillith wakes up. This may be due to the 12th Angel. It appears that the UN air force attempted to stop the Angel as far as Lillith's chamber.

Evangelion Mark 6 descended to the chamber, absorbed the Angel into itself (willingly or otherwise), and impaled itself and Lillith with the Spear of Cassius. It's likely that Mark 6 decapitated Lillith as well.

It's unclear what order any of this takes place in, but I feel like the stuff with Lillith would be towards the end of it. There's a whole lot of other details, like the red Evas and Lillith's decapitated head, that don't really add up in any way. The big red Evas are, if I remember right, all copies of Evangelion 01 and they have all been decapitated. Are their skulls the ones at the bottom of Lillith's chamber? Who knows.

As for the apocalypses, yes, there are different types. SEELE evidently shut down Near Third Impact because it didn't meet their goals. The Third Impact in the third film, however, does. This is why they're okay with Gendo killing them as they think their work is being completed. Gendo's plan then seems to rely on Misato and co. stopping Third Impact, meaning he has completely and utterly removed SEELE and their agent, Kaworu, from the board.

Thanks! I may rewatch it again at some point to see if I can understand the timeline a bit better. I normally don't mind blink and you miss it storytelling but 3.0 makes it harder to digest than earlier iterations of Eva due to weaker character work and a setting that's completely disconnected from reality. I really hope 4.0 does a flashback or something to help fill in the gaps a bit.

# ? Jul 9, 2019 14:40

zetamind2000: Nov 6, 2007; ~~I'm an alien.~~

Milkfred E. Moore posted:

SMG is actually talking about Evangelion in CD right now.

Neon Genesis Evangelion megathread: the protagonist gets a boner and a penguin screams at the boner, humiliating him.

# ? Jul 9, 2019 14:40

Xander B Coolridge: Sep 2, 2011

Milkfred E. Moore posted:

SMG is actually talking about Evangelion in CD right now.

Lmao

I mean, he's not wrong either.

Expect My Mom posted:

Okay then what about my second post where I talk Gundam

Like Gundam is contractually obligated to make an episode sometimes where the Gundam has like.......a different gun this time so they can sell that as a variation

I actually haven't seen enough Gundam to comment on it. My understanding, though, is that there are some series that are at least mildly thought provoking series, and some that are, as you say, designed to sell toys.

If I'm wrong, tell me so. I legitimately am going off of cultural osmosis here.

Aside from (what appears to me to be) a vehicle to sell brand new merch of 14 year-old girls, the rebuild movies seem to operate exclusively as metatextual commentary on the original run. The scope of discussion just seems so... narrow

Xander B Coolridge fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Jul 9, 2019

# ? Jul 9, 2019 14:49

P-Mack: Nov 10, 2007

Does any one besides SMG ever call it "New Century"? I mean that's what the characters are but it's always been Neon Genesis in English right?

# ? Jul 9, 2019 14:50

ChaosArgate: Oct 10, 2012; Why does everyone think I'm going to get in trouble?

P-Mack posted:

Does any one besides SMG ever call it "New Century"? I mean that's what the characters are but it's always been Neon Genesis in English right?

Yeah I think Anno or Gainax has English terminology they are suuuuper insistent on, but Shin Sekei I guess can translate to New Century? Either way, they're the ones who insisted the series' English title be Neon Genesis Evangelion.

# ? Jul 9, 2019 14:52

Nate RFB: Jan 17, 2005; Clapping Larry

P-Mack posted:

Does any one besides SMG ever call it "New Century"? I mean that's what the characters are but it's always been Neon Genesis in English right?

Yes, it's always been Neon Genesis officially per Anno's/Gainax's wishes.

Evangelion was one of those shows that utilizes English for terms, titles, etc. in a way that isn't really 1:1 with the written or spoken Japanese and it's almost assuredly an artistic decision (to at least some degree). Every episode has two titles for example, the first being in Japanese and the second at the eyecatch in English and they often are very different. Or that "Angels" are more literally translated as "Apostles".

# ? Jul 9, 2019 14:55

P-Mack: Nov 10, 2007

Thanks, Neon Genesis isn't even close to being a valid translation so it makes sense that it was a conscious decision. The name does really captures the aesthetic of weird gaudy futurism and strange Bible poo poo.

# ? Jul 9, 2019 15:22

cargohills: Apr 18, 2014

One of SMG's things is getting titles consistently wrong on purpose.

# ? Jul 9, 2019 15:26

SHISHKABOB: Nov 30, 2012; Fun Shoe

cargohills posted:

One of SMG's things is getting titles consistently wrong on purpose.

It's small, but effective.

# ? Jul 9, 2019 15:28

FilthyImp: Sep 30, 2002; Anime Deviant

Xander B Coolridge posted:

What's there to be discussed about 3.33?

You don't see it as the incredibly hosed up way we expect youth to account for their actions?

SHISHKABOB posted:

It's small, but effective.

It's weird because it's what the ADV subs used for one of the title screens in either D/R or EoE.

FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Jul 9, 2019

# ? Jul 9, 2019 15:50

tbp: Mar 1, 2008; DU WIRST NIEMALS ALLEINE MARSCHIEREN

one fun thing, as a big fan of godzilla, was finding out that shin godzilla which i liked a lot was by the same director. i genuinely had no idea who he was until this poo poo was on netflix, they're so absurdly different as works too.

# ? Jul 9, 2019 16:15

Nate RFB: Jan 17, 2005; Clapping Larry

If you really want to have some fun you should check out Anno's His and Her Circumstances which is a shoujo romance series (and way better than the manga it is adapted from).

# ? Jul 9, 2019 16:20

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

The first 18 or whatever episodes of His and Her's are honestly as good as NGE at its best. The last bunch of episodes is weaker though.

# ? Jul 9, 2019 16:23

Weird BIAS: Jul 5, 2007; so... guess that's it, huh? just... don't say i didn't warn you.

The last bunch weren�t directed by Anno just as a note.

# ? Jul 9, 2019 16:26

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# ? May 26, 2024 12:57

Nate RFB: Jan 17, 2005; Clapping Larry

It's also famously the series that caused Anno to go on a lengthy anime hiatus, only returning to direct the Rebuild films almost a decade later (he did supervise the Cutie Honey OVA, though).

I wish it had wrapped up better but I think those 18 episodes work really well as-is.

# ? Jul 9, 2019 16:33

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > VEGETA > Neon Genesis Evangelion megathread: Death & Rebirth of the author

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