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lets hang out posted:got recommended this old video today, it's great if you haven't seen it
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Jul 19, 2019 04:05
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Light Gun Man posted:The fan service is all the closeups of buttons and knobs and UI elements and doors opening and closing and all that cool poo poo Nothing has ever reached that peak 90's heavy industry aesthetic like Evangelion did and the world is poorer for it. Eva sells you just how much infrastructure it would take to run something like a giant robot so well, The power cables stuffed into every corner of every room, the lengths it goes to show you just how thick the walls and assorted safety systems have to be. I could watch a supercut of all the tech porn from the show on repeat all day long.
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Jul 19, 2019 04:16
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for real, my PC backgrounds for years have just been screenshots of Eva's 'let's show doors closing and monitors flashing and valves turning' aesthetic and my initial fascination with the show 800 years ago had a lot to do with those aspects. it really does drive in how much of a gigantic undertaking actually having a super robot/bioweapon would be and how OSHA the whole thing would get, and the amount of detail on a lot of those shots is absolutely fantastic. i've never watched through the series with a clipboard to see how often those shots are repeated but they always gave me the same vibe as the reuse of magical girl transformation sequences or shonen power-up moves.
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Jul 19, 2019 05:00
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The phone game Battle Cats is doing an Evangelion crossover event for the next couple of weeks.
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Jul 19, 2019 05:10
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lets hang out posted:got recommended this old video today, it's great if you haven't seen it Man, the CG has aged really badly.
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Jul 19, 2019 05:22
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galagazombie posted:Nothing has ever reached that peak 90's heavy industry aesthetic like Evangelion did and the world is poorer for it. Eva sells you just how much infrastructure it would take to run something like a giant robot so well, The power cables stuffed into every corner of every room, the lengths it goes to show you just how thick the walls and assorted safety systems have to be. I could watch a supercut of all the tech porn from the show on repeat all day long. I really liked this too, which is a small part of the reason I earlier complained about Evangelion 3.0's world building. The series more than hinted at the bureaucracy and logistics that went with such an undertaking, while 3.0 seems to lack any coherent infrastructure required to support any of the insane crap that goes on. Nerv even have a really nice, new-looking piano lying around to set up in their post-apocalyptic ruins so Shinji and Kaoru can bond. I guess they got their priorities straight on what needed saving - it likely was kept in a specifically-designed safe somewhere as it was part of Gendo's plan all along.
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Jul 19, 2019 05:26
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Soul Reaver posted:I really liked this too, which is a small part of the reason I earlier complained about Evangelion 3.0's world building. The series more than hinted at the bureaucracy and logistics that went with such an undertaking, while 3.0 seems to lack any coherent infrastructure required to support any of the insane crap that goes on. I know I explained things before and you, like, pretended not to read the post but... 3.0 has an entire sequence dedicated to the bureaucracy and logistics of getting, say, the Wunder in the air. Turns out you need a whole fleet of ships, supplies airlifted in, and ad-hoc power transmission and generators constructed in a similar way to Operation Yashima. NERV didn't put the piano there, Kaworu or SEELE did. Yes, it turns out the bizarre religious apocalypse organization has weird priorities on what's important, and the piano is there so Kaworu can manipulate Shinji into the EVA to fulfill their scenario. You're about one step removed from CinemaSins here. "Uh, a piano in the middle of the ruins? Bzzzt." You'll find it far more liberating to just say "I don't like 3.33." Anno can't hurt you anymore. Well, maybe he can, when 3.0+1.0 comes out and it doesn't match whatever shibboleth you've created in the series' image since.
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Jul 19, 2019 05:52
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:Anno can't hurt you anymore.
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Jul 19, 2019 06:24
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Jul 19, 2019 06:36
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:I know I explained things before and you, like, pretended not to read the post but... The scene of them prepping the Wunder was overall fine, other than the stakes only being clear due to the technobabble rather than any pre-existing knowledge the audience may have had of the importance of the event and actions being carried out. Nerv apparently consisting of only 4 actual people who have no problems running multiple Evas out of the shattered ruins of their old office, not so much. You can explain away anything if you try hard enough. You can try to fix the plot hole in The Matrix about people being used as batteries by saying that the bombs used to block out the sun might have had the side-effect of changing the laws of thermodynamics - I mean sure, the film never actually bothers to show us that but hey, it doesn't contradict it either, right? Or you accept that maybe that aspect of the film is not very well thought out. Or let's give it the benefit of the doubt and say there actually is some brilliant explanation for the above, except it's never shown to or hinted at to the audience... well, it'll still look dumb to the audience and thus not showing it was a dumb decision. And yes, I don't like Evangelion 3.33. I find it baffling the knots people will tie themselves into to try and excuse its faults. Soul Reaver fucked around with this message at 07:13 on Jul 19, 2019 |
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Jul 19, 2019 07:08
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Soul Reaver posted:The scene of them prepping the Wunder was overall fine, other than the stakes only being clear due to the technobabble rather than any pre-existing knowledge the audience may have had of the importance of the event and actions being carried out. It's not tying anything into any knots. It's just called, like, watching the film and doing a process of reading and interpretation. I find it baffling that you were so proud to declare you had a Masters in film or whatever and yet don't appear to understand basics of the art like, say, visual links and callbacks or even just paying attention to the dialogue. For example, why is there a piano there? Because Kaworu is associated heavily with music. It's similar to how he met Shinji in the original when he was singing, yet is different. Just like how everything in the Rebuilds is similar, but different. But the key thing about a piano is that it is two people sharing one instrument, just like - and stick with me here, because this is one hell of a knot, oh Master of Movies - how Evangelion 13 is one instrument shared between two souls. Like, you can't try and make the argument that Evangelion was smart and packed with good world-building and you're the smart guy for noticing it, then turn around and feign media or visual illiteracy instead of engaging with what the new films show you. edit: The Morpheus battery thing is pretty simple, too. Morpheus is a zealot who is radicalizing Mr Anderson into becoming this Neo, this revolutionary figure. He is also completely wrong - as you point out, there's no way the battery explanation can make sense. This is called characterization. Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 07:33 on Jul 19, 2019 |
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Jul 19, 2019 07:29
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It does much for Evangelion's status in the west that most people don't know of the three Evangelion strip Mah-Jong games and various dating simulators and pin-up calendars; its statements of seeming condemnation are, like The Last Jedi's statements against war profiteering and nerd fetishization, a bit ironic when it still expects you to buy every pew-pew space war piece of merchandise. (But Anno would say this is just "economics." Maybe Charles Schulz would, too.) Here the merchandising empire is much like Kubrick's sexualized and very black and white Lolita versus Nabokov's (Anno's) text. Yinlock posted:yeah there's a huge and insane dichotomy between miyazaki the person and the work he claims credit for The ending of the Nausicaä manga has her condemning the human race to extinction because nature should call the shots and not man; I think his opinion of people was pretty clear there Mermaid Autopsy fucked around with this message at 07:58 on Jul 19, 2019 |
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Jul 19, 2019 07:47
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:edit: The Morpheus battery thing is pretty simple, too. Machines are assholes and want us to suffer
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Jul 19, 2019 09:02
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:It's not tying anything into any knots. It's just called, like, watching the film and doing a process of reading and interpretation. I find it baffling that you were so proud to declare you had a Masters in film or whatever and yet don't appear to understand basics of the art like, say, visual links and callbacks or even just paying attention to the dialogue. You're failing to engage with my actual point, instead seeming to think I'm somehow missing something that I never even commented on. I fully understand the thematic and plot reasons for the piano scene. It's just that like most things in the film it's a clumsy, poorly-thought out way of telling the story. Simply using a beat-up piano would have been more believable and otherwise achieved the exact same purpose. Or heaven forbid - a couple of beat-up cellos, a musical instrument that Shinji at least had some connection with in past series continuity (with them playing a nice duet using the same type of instrument). As pretty and musically pleasing as that scene is, Shinji going from actively saying "I'll pass. I can't play" and one-handedly pecking at the keys to moments later playing perfectly along with Kaworu is an unnecessary and ridiculous-looking abstraction. I found it impossible to take what was supposed to be a pivotal scene seriously. There would have been many visual, filmic ways to represent the passage of time that would have been required to allow Shinji to 'tune in' to Kaworu and get good enough to play a piano duet with him, but none of that filmic language is used. Or that necessity could have been avoided by previously alluding to him having some piano playing skills in one of the previous films. There's always explanations of course, as long as we pretty freely make up what might be going on in peoples' heads: "Shinji doesn't know if he can trust Kaworu, so he lies and pretends he doesn't know how to play, but then starts playing when they warm up to each other". But I can do that too: "it makes no sense because Shinji would never trust a complete stranger so quickly, especially with how his trust has been betrayed so often in the past". By far the simplest explanation for what we see on screen is that nobody thought too hard about it, beyond what would look and sound cool. Also, the fact that you're holding my mentioning my degree against me by making it sound like I was trying to say that that gave my opinions more validity shows that you entirely missed the point of why I mentioned it as well. So how DO they run Nerv with just four guys? Milkfred E. Moore posted:edit: The Morpheus battery thing is pretty simple, too. Morpheus is a zealot who is radicalizing Mr Anderson into becoming this Neo, this revolutionary figure. He is also completely wrong - as you point out, there's no way the battery explanation can make sense. This is called characterization. How do you know it's not a clue that the 'real world' doesn't work like the Matrix does (and that by corollary suggesting that we, in the real world, are actually in the matrix)? This is called world building. How do you know it's not a case of some studio exec deciding that "human brains being used as parallel processors" was too hard for the audience to understand and instead had it changed to batteries? This is called executive meddling.
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Jul 19, 2019 10:02
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FilthyImp posted:Machines are assholes and want us to suffer The machines make people into batteries because "The Matrix" is not really a scientifically smart film for biologists, lol they wanted typical people to understand the plot and most people don't understand/care that that wouldn't really work
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Jul 19, 2019 10:34
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FilthyImp posted:Yeah, I feel like everyone was all caught up on how impossible it was [or in my case, how a distributed biological renderfarm would make more sense], that they just overlooked the obvious: And naturally the battery thing was made up at the last minute (because they didn’t think people would understand the original idea)
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Jul 19, 2019 11:32
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New trailer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XHSoKcG4i0
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Jul 19, 2019 11:51
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Soul Reaver posted:[Ramiel-esque screaming] We'll start simple, with the piano. Using a beat-up piano would be more believable by your subjective, arbitrary standards. That is to say, you would've liked it more. A key aspect of critique is being able to differentiate 'this doesn't work' from 'I don't like this.' Using such a piano would not have achieved the exact same purpose. Nor would using cellos. Having the piano be bright and shiny is a hint that something is wrong. It is a piano that is out of place, that should not be there. It plays into the recurring idea throughout the Rebuilds that everything is being scripted and perhaps even cyclical (with Kaworu being a key component of the cycle.) It's no different to having Asuka Shikinami or Kaworu having a different undershirt or Gendo wearing Keel's visor or the lights not falling before the Sachiel battle. Alternatively, it can be a sign of any of the following: one, Kaworu simply wanted it and is a sign of his power over Gendo and Fuyutsuki that he could get it; two, it's evidence that NERV was still being supplied or inhabited past the N3I cataclysm; three, it's a sign that someone put it there for the express purpose we see displayed - to manipulate Shinji and test his synchronicity with Kaworu. Additionally, using cellos would not serve the same purpose. As already mentioned, two cellos is two separate instruments played together. A piano is one instrument played by two people in harmony (and in close proximity to one and other, maybe even touching.) How can you say both that you 'understand the thematic and plot reasons for the piano scene' then try and contrive reasons why it doesn't work, calling it ''clumsy and 'poorly thought out?' If you have the background you claim to have, you should be able to argue the point better than me. I only have a Masters in Teaching, after all. If I'm wrong, it should be simple to demonstrate why. Also, the cello is not an instrument Shinji appears to have any connection to in the Rebuild. He hasn't mentioned it or been seen with it. The fact you say that you understand the 'thematic and plot reasons' but then say 'they should've used a cello' is bizarrely self-defeating, unless they changed Unit 13 into, like, two separate, identical machines or otherwise rewrote the entire movie. This is like saying that the Rebuilds suck because they show Asuka playing with a doll when she hates dolls in the original series, or have Rei catching Asuka's hand in the elevator scene. These differences didn't arise by accident or because no one thought about them. But let's think more about the cello. Shinji never liked playing the cello. In fact, the one conversation Shinji has about the instrument in the original series is that his teacher told him to start playing it, and Shinji just kept doing it because no one told him to stop. He doesn't even understand how good he is at it (very) because he's never bothered to care about it. He just does it without understanding or caring. The piano is different. It's something new to him. It's something he actually enjoys playing, to the extent that he runs through chords and progressions even when he's not with Kaworu. Given that you sum it up as "an unnecessary and ridiculous-looking abstraction," I feel like you don't even know what a montage is. Or are, for the purposes of trying to 'win' an Internet discussion, pretending (do you really want to stand by that 'none of that filmic language' is used? The scene is right there on Youtube. What does it mean when we start seeing a montage of images and strange colors? Is that perhaps a form of abstraction of time passing? Did you note that the pattern of lines that appears is the same one that appears when they pilot Unit 13?) Would the film be better if we saw Shinji practicing with Kaworu multiple times and slowing getting better? Sounds like the kind of thing you'd sum up with an abstracted montage to me to demonstrate time passing, like just about any other film. Because there's a clear amount of time passing while Shinji is in NERV HQ beyond that scene, too. For example, the number of books he finds for Rei increases, yet we don't see him do it. Am I supposed to just buy this "an unnecessary and ridiculous-looking abstraction" of that stack of books magically increasing from half a dozen to as tall as Rei's doorway? Am I supposed to think Shinji just did that? Pssh, when? When has Shinji displayed an interest in books? How did those books survive the apocalypse? How does he even know what books Rei likes? Pfft, 3.33 is a garbage fire. Anno, you hack, Rei doesn't like books - she likes cooking! Anyone can pretend to be illiterate to make any given text sound ridiculous. Like I said, the substance of your argument is just "I don't like it." And that's okay! I don't like Mari and I don't really like the new weird Evangelion creations that're just kind of like boring drones. I thought all of the ones introduced in that 4.0 battle were just hard to take seriously, which meant I got both of the things I don't like about the Rebuilds in one neat little package. You say Shinji wouldn't trust anyone easily. That's almost a good point. Except that Shinji spends the whole of 3.33 being desperate for a connection or explanation from anyone, and Kaworu is there to give it to him. Like, that's the whole core of their relationship. Kaworu knows precisely who Shinji is and has been looking to meet him with a promise that he'll make him happy since the first film. Shinji doesn't trust Kaworu initially, but the piano, the fact that Kaworu seems honest and caring, and takes the murder-collar from him, are what engender the trust. It doesn't happen over the space of one piano duet. Which brings us to the operational capabilities of NERV. How do they run it all with four guys? The answer is: not very well, with the direct influence of SEELE, with automated systems, and with fourteen years of lead-up. Given that the Nemesis Series and other weird Angel-weapons were also located on the space coffin, they weren't developed by four-man band NERV. SEELE is now living (existing?) in NERV HQ and neither Gendo or Fuyutsuki appear to be in positions of command - just executors of SEELE's will. We see that NERV possesses some kind of weird womb-machine that spat out Evangelion 13 fully-made and armored. In fact, much more of the HQ is automated than in the original series, even as far back as 1.11 and 2.22. This links to how the Mark 6 was turned autonomous. They also have racks full of Evangelion arms, holes full of pallet rifles, rooms full of battle tanks and generators, and so on. It's possible that after NERV fell, the whole defence of Lillith was turned into an automated process. After all, the fact that Evangelion 01 was piloted by a human is what led to the Near Third Impact. And doesn't the new NERV logo look almost like an imperfect, digital, angular copy of the old one? It's not like Evangelions took a lot of time to build before, by the way. The entire Mass-Produced Evangelion series was constructed over a period of days or weeks (Misato hears about it just before Arael attacks). Being constructed in various sites admittedly, but it still means it doesn't take much time at all to build an Evangelion once the infrastructure is in place, given how little time passes from Arael's attack to the end of the series. Which includes outfitting them with armor and dummy plugs and, oh yeah, replica Lances that somehow perfectly replicate the original. What the gently caress, Anno? Why did Gendo throw the Lance away if SEELE were just going to build so many more? Am I just expected to believe that they can do that? If you need additional evidence, look at the pile of Evangelion skeletons in the Armisael episode. Over the years, NERV built a lot of prototypes and did it without anyone knowing about it (Misato doesn and she's in the organization.) They even increased the amount of skeletons in the DC of that episode. And I imagine you'll agree with me when I say I thought that was a poor change, because seeing what has to be a thousand skeletons in a big pile is kind of less effective than seeing them all laid out and tagged and does a lot to demystify the Eva. But maybe that's the point, and the Rebuilds just take that further. So, really, these concepts don't come out of nowhere, even in the original series. There is worldbuilding beyond infodumps and expository dialogue, and even the original series just introduced things as required. Like, you can't attack The Matrix over inconsistent writing when it's commonly accepted, and discussed in this thread, that Anno changed his mind around about the direction of Eva around about Episode 13 (probably why 14 both introduces SEELE and is a clip episode) and was habitually altering scripts and submitting them at the last minute. The big difference between 3.33 and the previous films (and the original series) is that it relies far more on the act of visual interpretation than anything else in Eva. But all films rely on visual interpretation, some more than others. When you watch Star Wars, you don't start thinking that, like, it's a different character in the Darth Vader mask, right? Am I supposed to just understand that this Vader is the same guy as the one I saw two scenes ago? Where's the "filmic language" to tell me this? Honestly, the thing that strikes me most about 3.33's discourse in general is how, for a franchise that people work themselves into a frenzy about how it's all to be interpreted and if something doesn't make sense that means it is metaphor, 3.33 gives them basically what they want and they freak out because it's not already solved. 3.33 requires you to go through a process of interpretation. It's not even particularly dense or obtuse. All you need to do is just pay attention to what the film is showing you, and I say this as someone who really didn't like it when I first saw it. And, furthermore- oh drat Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 12:54 on Jul 19, 2019 |
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Jul 19, 2019 12:51
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ok, I will concede that they seem to be working on the movie
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Jul 19, 2019 13:06
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If I understood the end title card correctly, the movie's coming out next June?
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Jul 19, 2019 13:12
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The bombastic choral rendition of the next episode teaser music is ridiculous and I love it.
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Jul 19, 2019 13:24
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very unexcited about the super CG look of unit 02 and the Wunder Dealy, but at least they're making progress
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Jul 19, 2019 13:55
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Congrats Jet Alone you made it
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Jul 19, 2019 14:57
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happy to see kowaru and an older looking shin in front of a cutting mat/drawing board sad to see mari waving goodbye lol wunder is a giant sperm
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Jul 19, 2019 15:01
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:also with respect to the "actual" backstory of Evangelion and how the various unknowable aspects line up, it's important to remember that this was in flux not just with respect to the TV series vs. EoE, but literally the entire time the show was airing. Evangelion was basically improvised, per statements by the creative staff and crew. Nah; it's actually very important that the angels are human, because they're not external invaders. Not only are the angels' various forms a product of human psychology (as shown in Episode 26 when Shinji imagines himself morphing into a fetus, an egg, a cross, etc.), a key point is that there is no original alien hive-mind for them to go back to. 'Adam' only existed for a few hours. The angels cannot ever be 'whole again', even though that's their exclusive goal.* The parallel between them and the normal human characters here should be pretty obvious. Also, it's very important that angels are the product of failed human testing by the SOUL gang, which served as a basis for the Evangelion technology. Their power is what the SOUL guys are trying to control. The angels are what the SOUL guys are trying to become. It's constantly emphasized that the Eva units are literally just Angels kept in check with various constraints. They're made of normal matter instead of the physics-defying "particle-wave matter", they're confined inside the suits, they're piloted, their power source is external, etc.... But then, they're shown to constantly defy these limits - almost invariably because Shinji's dad is deliberately contriving scenarios where his son will be pushed to the breaking-point. This is, again, what puts him in conflict with the rest of SOUL. *This is the entire point of the twist (in Episode 24) that the crucified being isn't Adam. Adam doesn't exist. Kaworu's inbuilt drive to reunite with the primordial mother-figure is a human instinct. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Jul 19, 2019 |
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Jul 19, 2019 15:20
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Equeen posted:If I understood the end title card correctly, the movie's coming out next June?
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Jul 19, 2019 15:22
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Wark Say posted:Pretty much. I would say "I can't wait!", but it's almost a year away and frankly, nobody knows what's going to happen in that period of time. Shin Godzilla Rebuild announced, 3.0+1.0 delayed indefinitely again
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Jul 19, 2019 15:25
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  Lookin' uhhhhhh creepy there, Fuyutsuki
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Jul 19, 2019 15:34
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HELL YEAH FUCKIN RIGHT
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Jul 19, 2019 15:36
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is that the empty blue sky area i see did asuka and rei intrude upon the Shinji Mope Zone Charlatan Eschaton posted:happy to see kowaru and an older looking shin in front of a cutting mat/drawing board oh lord they're going to impregnate the universe and reset everything into tv eva aren't they please no, this was the stupidest option i could think of i didn't want it to actually happen Yinlock fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Jul 19, 2019 |
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Jul 19, 2019 15:42
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The skeleton attached to wonder reminds me of the Sixth Angel Gaghiel (the one that attacked the fleet while transporting unit 2 and Adam
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Jul 19, 2019 16:06
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The third angel at the start of 2.22 might be Gaghiel. Kaji says it's been studied to it's bones and the skull and core is similar, also the fat belly from the ships firing on it. Biblical Mary of Bethany's brother is Lazarus who was resurrected. That particular Mary (there's at least 05 of them in the bible and they get mixed up sometimes) also anointed jesus with fancy perfume before he died and the first thing mari does is compliment shinji on his good smell.
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Jul 19, 2019 16:21
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Wunder is Pen Pen. Third Impact made him huge.
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Jul 19, 2019 16:24
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:Wunder is Pen Pen. Wasnt there an image floating around showing a comparison of Wunder and a penguin's skeleton/body shape
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Jul 19, 2019 16:29
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Charlatan Eschaton posted:The third angel at the start of 2.22 might be Gaghiel. Kaji says it's been studied to it's bones and the skull and core is similar, also the fat belly from the ships firing on it. Biblical Mary of Bethany's brother is Lazarus who was resurrected. That particular Mary (there's at least 05 of them in the bible and they get mixed up sometimes) also anointed jesus with fancy perfume before he died and the first thing mari does is compliment shinji on his good smell. I think they found it buried under permafrost, which is why there are Russians and Americans involved.
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Jul 19, 2019 16:30
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Are there any hot "Pen Pen is an Angel" fan theories?
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Jul 19, 2019 16:30
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hope and vaseline posted:Wasnt there an image floating around showing a comparison of Wunder and a penguin's skeleton/body shape  The images on the left are fake news.
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Jul 19, 2019 16:31
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He’s a hot springs angel. They were more common 15 years ago.
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Jul 19, 2019 16:33
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If you look closely at Pen Pen's eyes, you realize they are the eyes of Evangelion Unit 01.
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Jul 19, 2019 16:34
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Nah; it's actually very important that the angels are human, because they're not external invaders. Not only are the angels' various forms a product of human psychology (as shown in Episode 26 when Shinji imagines himself morphing into a fetus, an egg, a cross, etc.), a key point is that there is no original alien hive-mind for them to go back to. 'Adam' only existed for a few hours. The angels cannot ever be 'whole again', even though that's their exclusive goal.* The parallel between them and the normal human characters here should be pretty obvious. You know, sure, I'll concede the point. I agree with nearly all of this (the Angels' forms being products of human psychology, the parallel between them and the human characters, and SEELE's goal being, essentially, to become like the angels), and just didn't really feel as though a diegetically human origin for them was necessary for these things to be true, but it strengthens the reading if that's what they are.
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Jul 19, 2019 16:36
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