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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:When did this happen? End of season 2 iirc. Georgiou fucks off with the Disco crew, leaving him in charge of the new Control-less S31.
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Apr 6, 2020 22:16
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Big Mean Jerk posted:End of season 2 iirc. Georgiou fucks off with the Disco crew, leaving him in charge of the new Control-less S31.
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Apr 6, 2020 22:17
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FlamingLiberal posted:Yes and I'm wondering how much of S31 is even left considering Control spaced the crews of all of those ships they had It was extremely clumsy and poorly written, but I think that was their way of segueing into the DS9-era shadowy S31 that’ll probably be the focus of the S31 show, if it ever actually happens. Georgiou’s obviously going to get shipped back to the past somehow and run things with Tyler and maybe whoever’s still on that one ship.
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Apr 6, 2020 22:20
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Big Mean Jerk posted:End of season 2 iirc. Georgiou fucks off with the Disco crew, leaving him in charge of the new Control-less S31. FlamingLiberal posted:Yes and I'm wondering how much of S31 is even left considering Control spaced the crews of all of those ships they had Right. There's basically nothing left for him to be in charge of. "Ya Ash, you are the head of section 31." tries to stifle his laughter
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Apr 6, 2020 22:25
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Big Mean Jerk posted:It was extremely clumsy and poorly written, but I think that was their way of segueing into the DS9-era shadowy S31 that’ll probably be the focus of the S31 show, if it ever actually happens. Georgiou’s obviously going to get shipped back to the past somehow and run things with Tyler and maybe whoever’s still on that one ship.
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Apr 6, 2020 22:27
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Maybe they should just send Ash Tyler into the future for the Section 31 show. Have all that take place in the 31st century or whenever they are for Discovery. Make it all about them trying to get Section 31 going in the far future and keep it out of the history of Star Trek as we know and love it.
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Apr 6, 2020 22:28
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Disco season 3 taking place 900 years in the goddamn future where they aren't bound by canon is the best decision for that show. No more need to tip-toe around show bibles anymore. Just go crazy with new paradigms and alliances and antagonists.
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Apr 6, 2020 22:41
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Gonz posted:Disco season 3 taking place 900 years in the goddamn future where they aren't bound by canon is the best decision for that show. That and I'm not really thrilled of this idea that they are coming from the past to rebuild the UFP or whatever
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Apr 6, 2020 22:50
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The superpowered ship that can go anywhere in the galaxy in the blink of an eye, and the best stuff they can come up for it to do is have it hang around the alpha quadrant again.
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Apr 6, 2020 23:05
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Gonz posted:Disco season 3 taking place 900 years in the goddamn future where they aren't bound by canon is the best decision for that show. Do you think the Show Bible is what made the writing bad?
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Apr 6, 2020 23:25
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socialsecurity posted:Do you think the Show Bible is what made the writing bad? Absolutely not. Bad writing made the writing bad. I just want the bad writers to not be able to use show bibles as a crutch anymore.
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Apr 6, 2020 23:38
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IMO the biggest problem with this series was the idea to make it the Michael Burnham show. She's not a good character. The supporting cast has also not been fleshed out enough. They tried to do some stuff with Airiam last season but then immediately killed her off. There was that one episode where they gave Owo some backstory (that she came from some kind of Luddite cult), but a lot of the time that would have been spent on fleshing out the rest of the bridge crew went to Pike/Spock/Burnham stuff.
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Apr 7, 2020 00:08
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FlamingLiberal posted:IMO the biggest problem with this series was the idea to make it the Michael Burnham show. She's not a good character. Her character is so hollow that they have to really lean on her family relations to give her a storyline. It really seems like she only cares so much about how her brother is doing, rather than leaving him alone or assuming he's fine, because he's a Star Trek Hero Character and they have to use that as an excuse to rope him into the plot somehow. It all feels very forced compared to how Captain Sisko's family was depicted. They're adults with separate lives who all had to be roped together via a series of coincidences.
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Apr 7, 2020 00:21
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DISCO 3 is going to be good, I am a dipshit who still believes.
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Apr 7, 2020 00:23
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Burnham would be a perfectly fine character if she hadn't been expected to carry the programme. She would (and does) work a lot better as a supporting character to Pike.
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Apr 7, 2020 00:29
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galenanorth posted:Her character is so hollow that they have to really lean on her family relations to give her a storyline. It really seems like she only cares so much about how her brother is doing, rather than leaving him alone or assuming he's fine, because he's a Star Trek Hero Character and they have to use that as an excuse to rope him into the plot somehow. It all feels very forced compared to how Captain Sisko's family was depicted. They're adults with separate lives who all had to be roped together via a series of coincidences.
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Apr 7, 2020 00:30
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Oh poo poo I just realized they cut off one of Voq's dicks to turn him in Ash Tyler!
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Apr 7, 2020 00:40
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PostNouveau posted:Oh poo poo I just realized they cut off one of Voq's dicks to turn him in Ash Tyler! l'ol
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Apr 7, 2020 00:42
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Arglebargle III posted:
It's not Minstrel Show makeup, but the social conversation has moved pretty much to "if a white person darkens their skin for any reason, it is definitely racist and the role should have went to a person of color." It can be debated, but I don't think Star Trek will be the platform for that. Keep in mind that on DISCO a black man was repreminded for using the n-word in the writer's room in front of non-black employees of CBS and subsequently quit. They err on the side of caution. Gonz posted:Disco season 3 taking place 900 years in the goddamn future where they aren't bound by canon is the best decision for that show.  Looking more forward to a season of DISCO than ever before.
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Apr 7, 2020 00:51
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Astroman posted:It's not Minstrel Show makeup, but the social conversation has moved pretty much to "if a white person darkens their skin for any reason, it is definitely racist and the role should have went to a person of color." It can be debated, but I don't think Star Trek will be the platform for that. That's what I mean by heuristics. By that heuristic, anyone who applies self-tanner is in blackface.
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Apr 7, 2020 00:55
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Big Mean Jerk posted:It was extremely clumsy and poorly written, but I think that was their way of segueing into the DS9-era shadowy S31 that’ll probably be the focus of the S31 show, if it ever actually happens. Georgiou’s obviously going to get shipped back to the past somehow and run things with Tyler and maybe whoever’s still on that one ship. I still keep hoping that the Section 31 show talk is just a cover for pre-production of the Pike show so they can pull it out as a big surprise, but that's looking increasingly unlikely. It's probably gonna be exactly what you said. Georgiou returns from the far future with insight onto where the Federation went wrong and has to heroically work in the shadows to guide it towards a better future and it turns out Section 31 were really the good guys all along.
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Apr 7, 2020 03:04
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Senor Tron posted:I still keep hoping that the Section 31 show talk is just a cover for pre-production of the Pike show so they can pull it out as a big surprise, but that's looking increasingly unlikely. That would be less complicated than finding a reason to send Evil Georgieu back to the past
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Apr 7, 2020 03:06
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I feel like people are glazing of TMP Klingons which were definitely more Blackface and there a few characters like Gowron on TNG who tend to look a bit darker. The issue isn't that the conversation changed. The issue is that Klingons are space Mongolians who had one movie where they were really dark skinned and then the biggest and most well known Klingon was played by a black man with a bunch of white people darkening their skin. Like I get you can defend it, but it's silly to act like there's nothing to see there.
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Apr 7, 2020 03:26
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Cojawfee posted:It was quite a ride. Chronologically Lost is awesome, not to mention fascinating, but you really need to have watched it normally at least twice and have a good grasp of the story. PostNouveau posted:Oh poo poo I just realized they cut off one of Voq's dicks to turn him in Ash Tyler!  Astroman posted:Keep in mind that on DISCO a black man was repreminded for using the n-word in the writer's room in front of non-black employees of CBS and subsequently quit. They err on the side of caution. Wow I had forgotten that. What was the story again, and was he a writer himself or something else.
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Apr 7, 2020 04:12
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Senor Tron posted:I still keep hoping that the Section 31 show talk is just a cover for pre-production of the Pike show so they can pull it out as a big surprise, but that's looking increasingly unlikely. I don't find this likely. I think Section 31 will be morally ambiguous so that they do one of the most coveted prestige TV things of all: center a cynical show around an increasingly deranged antihero.
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Apr 7, 2020 07:58
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Cojawfee posted:Voq wasn't even smart as a human. Ash was pretty much just Human Ash imprinted over Voq. Whenever Voq took over, he did stupid poo poo like immediately expose himself as a klingon spy. He was dumb as gently caress. I STILL don't understand the whole transformation that the Klingons did, even after reading about it many times. Voq and Ash are seperate people. Ash is killed. Voq is altered to look exactly like Ash (sawing down his bones and all) and even his DNA is altered so it won't be detected. Ash's memories and personalities are imprinted over Voq. Wouldn't it be a lot easier to do it the other way around, kill Voq and imprint his personality over a living Ash !?
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Apr 7, 2020 12:45
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They should've just scooped Voq's brain out and put it in Ash's body imo.
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Apr 7, 2020 12:58
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Hipster_Doofus posted:Chronologically Lost is awesome, not to mention fascinating, but you really need to have watched it normally at least twice and have a good grasp of the story. He was Walter Mosley, a very well respected, nearly 70 year old scifi writer who had been hired onto DISCO and was seen as a big coup for having him on staff. He was speaking from personal experience, having had experienced racial discrimination and epitaphs in his own life and was anonymously called out to Human Resources for it. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/06/opinion/sunday/walter-mosley.html Or as he put it, he got a call from an HR rep who said "It has been reported that you used the 'n-word' in the writer's room." To which he replied, "I AM the n-word in the writer's room!" “There I was, a black man in America who shares with millions of others the history of racism,” he wrote. “And more often than not, treated as subhuman. If addressed at all that history had to be rendered in words my employers regarded as acceptable.”
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Apr 7, 2020 14:09
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MrData posted:Wouldn't it be a lot easier to do it the other way around, kill Voq and imprint his personality over a living Ash !? I've never done a Klingon-human brain switching surgery. Do you need to kill anyone?
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Apr 7, 2020 14:52
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I don't think it's that weird that the Klingons would go for the option where they kill a Starfleet dude and keep the Klingon guy alive rather than the reverse.
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Apr 7, 2020 15:55
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Hipster_Doofus posted:Chronologically Lost is awesome, not to mention fascinating, but you really need to have watched it normally at least twice and have a good grasp of the story. "To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Lost" Gonz posted:Disco season 3 taking place 900 years in the goddamn future where they aren't bound by canon is the best decision for that show. So Discovery has a brilliant writing staff and the only thing that's holding them down is that darn Star Trek license? Well. That's a theory.
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Apr 7, 2020 15:58
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I'm glad they can travel 900 years into the future to do a plot about Starfleet giving in to right-wing nativism and losing its way, really breaking fresh ground for the show.
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Apr 7, 2020 16:07
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Timeless Appeal posted:I feel like people are glazing of TMP Klingons which were definitely more Blackface and there a few characters like Gowron on TNG who tend to look a bit darker. Klingons aren't blackface because they are playing aliens, not black people. You and others are way over thinking this. Klingons don't exist.
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Apr 7, 2020 16:30
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One thing I hope is that whatever happens, the far future isn't set in stone and is one of the possible futures that can be avoided. I say this because I feel Star Trek is *our* future, which means that Star Trek shouldn't have its *own* future because it is implied that that will then, inevitably, be our future. Seeing as one of the ideas behind Star Trek is that better things are possible for humankind if we pull ourselves out of the problems of the present, I don't like anything that undermines the future we've seen in Star Trek. There's been differences in portrayal in TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT but they almost always come back down on the idea that this is the best it's ever been for human endeavor and our struggles to grow beyond the crib of Earth weren't in vain. In that light, the Trek we've seen can't just be a cultural moment, a golden age that passes by and enters a new dark age, because it's thematically just too nihilistic to support the setting. It would blunt the tool of Star Trek to its purpose, unless they're able to annihilate the dark future entirely.
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Apr 7, 2020 16:36
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Yeah, I'm not going to watch S3 either way, but I'll be interested in spoilers to see if it's at least an alternate future at the end of the season, and maybe I'll start watching DIS again in a few years
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Apr 7, 2020 16:41
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Astroman posted:He was Walter Mosley, a very well respected, nearly 70 year old scifi writer who had been hired onto DISCO and was seen as a big coup for having him on staff. He was speaking from personal experience, having had experienced racial discrimination and epitaphs in his own life and was anonymously called out to Human Resources for it. This reminds me of the time that somebody on twitter went off on Mike Pondsmith for being a white supremacist in his Cyberpunk RPG. 
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Apr 7, 2020 18:00
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It'd be nice if people read that incident not as PC run wild, but as executives and those in power demonstrating how they can punish punitively. I'd like it if things were nice.
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Apr 7, 2020 18:25
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Gonz posted:Absolutely not. Bad writing made the writing bad. lol if you really think that. Any future plotline will only be used to hammer "member the old Federation?" in even harder and all that comes with that. Voyager was completly "free" of the standard Federation setting and yet it didn't help a single bit. It's always a huge fallacy to think fiction is ever hold back by its own world. The world building is at the core of any great SciFi (and Fantasy), to act like it's holding anyone back is to ignore the real problems. Just take a look how little Picard did with it's "fresh" take.
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Apr 7, 2020 19:25
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Fidel Cuckstro posted:I'd like it if things were nice. Wow gently caress you buddy.
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Apr 7, 2020 19:36
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It’s still extremely lol to me that the core ethos of both Star Trek shows in the last decade is a driving belief that a better future is not, in fact, possible
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Apr 7, 2020 20:38
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